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Welcome to NW Chris. Friendly heads-up about the awesome community you will be working with!!
tommy887
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
@cwhitesidedev#9752
Well I'm not sure you will see this but Chris (it will most likely get deleted by the moderators) I just wanted to welcome you to Neverwinter and to give you a head- up about the community that you will be working with in game and here in the forums.
So, first things first, welcome. I really hope you have fun and enjoy this game that many of us use to enjoy over the years. And I want to wish you the best of luck with your game plan for the future of Neverwinter. Many of us are counting on you and some are calling you the Kenobi of Neverwinter since you are “our only (and for many, even the ones who have already left) the LAST hope” for this once great game.
Now for the heads-up part:
This community is very diverse as you have seen in the forums. Some people are toxic (you are going to get that anywhere in the world) but most are just very passionate about this game. Most of the players are in the older age range and many have played since day one. So, when you see posts that are critical, heated, or in some cases rude it is because they are passionate about this game and hate to see it fall from grace and fail. They are not attacks on you.
Now for a little back story so you have a general understanding of where and how the community is currently standing (This is not all players, and in some cases not even most so I can’t and will not speak for all, but this is how I feel and how many others feel that I have talked to, read from posts, and seen in youtube videos/streams)
So, here is what you are currently dealing with when it comes to the community:
Now there was a massive change in the game back when MOD 6 launched. I was not around at the time as I was sailing and missed Mods 5-7 at that time. But there was a large blow back from the massive changes that transpired back then. But again, I was not present for the initial blow back at that time due to work so I won’t comment any more on it other than to say that we lost a large portion of the player base due to that MOD.
Then the next large issue that swept the community was “Huntgate”. This happened in MOD 14 Ravenloft. When MOD 14 went to the preview sever, players tested out the MOD as per usual and feedback was given in the forums for any issues or bugs found. Well, many bugs were found and reported including one that allowed you to “glitch” hunts allowing you to not use the Tarokka cards but still get the rewards. As the weeks went by and the MOD was about to be launched on the live server people were sill reporting this ‘glitch”. Then MOD 14 launched on the Live server with the “glitch”. At first many didn’t know about it. Others didn’t want to try incase Cryptic would ban them. But then several days went by. Reports started to reappear on the forums in the live section about the “glitch”. Still nothing changed or happened. The days became weeks. Slowly the word got around and still no action to fix or even a comment about it from Cryptic. So, more people started to do it and believe it was “just the way neverwinter is” just like peeking into dungeon chests without using a key was for years and many other “glitches”. The weeks became months and then MOD 14 launched on consoles. And still the “glitch” was there. Well, the console players seen what was going on with the PC players and they all started to do it as well. Once again, no fix, no comment, nothing from Cryptic all while it is being reported on the forums. Then a week after the launch on to consoles a post was made stating that actions will be taken on accounts that partook in the “glitch”. Then on that Friday, at the end of the day, it happened. BANS. Bans were given out to the player base on all platforms. Everything from 24 hours to permanent bans. This was a huge blow to the community. Many people didn’t even get an email to tell them how long they have been banned for. Other reported that they were banned but never partook in the “glitch” (no idea if that was true but people have told me that it was) and to top it all off they did it on a Friday at the end of the day so no one could contact anyone about their account. Everyone had to wait till Monday before anything could happen.
This was a huge slap in the face to the player base. Cryptic left a “glitch” in the game for MONTHS all the while it was being reported over and over again in the forums. Instead of saying “we’re sorry about the glitch being there for so long” and fixing it ASAP, they decided to leave it there for MONTHS and then ban people because they didn’t fix a glitch that was well reported. We lost many of the content creators, youtubers, guide makers, streamers, and end game players from this. People lost their friends they played with so they left the game. Guilds lost their leaders and officers and became dead so more people left the game. And many players that were banned (not just perma-ban) left the game and never came back. And to this day, Neverwinter is still feeling the effects of this. And many players including myself will never forget or forgive what happened that day.
Now we move on to MOD 15. This was a kick to the shin for many or some depending on who you talk to (big time for end gamers). This MOD came with some nice damage boosts for most classes if not all. A new campaign that for myself and some or many others (hard to tell sometimes and I hate to speak for others in case they disagree) a boring weak leveling campaign that has nothing to do with D&D unless you like watching Acquisitions Incorporated on youtube. But worst of all a complete overhaul of the professions. Now, don’t get me wrong, change is good and sometimes very much necessary. But in this case, I went have 9 Epic Artisans for every profession to having a bunch of epic and a few rare ones that have HAMSTER stats or bonuses on them. I went from having millions in AD worth of professions artisans, gear and resources to having a fraction of that now. Millions of AD gone. Just like that. And what did they do with the new profession system??? NOTHING. It is useless right now. It's just dead!!! And I'm out millions of AD, and so are many other players.
Well, let’s move on to MOD 16. I’m sure you are most likely up to speed about this one. I won’t waste your time with it about the sweeping changes, bugs, problems, scaling (that used to be in the player zones as well and they had to get rid of it since it didn’t work and removed all forms of progression from players, yet they still kept it in the dungeons), the constant NERFING OF EVERYTHING, and so, so much more... That (once again) many players and end game players didn’t want, like, or willing to put up with. So, they left leaving an even larger gap and making it harder for new players to run content without the players with experience to teach them or carry them.
Well I'm not sure you will see this but Chris (it will most likely get deleted by the moderators) I just wanted to welcome you to Neverwinter and to give you a head- up about the community that you will be working with in game and here in the forums.
So, first things first, welcome. I really hope you have fun and enjoy this game that many of us use to enjoy over the years. And I want to wish you the best of luck with your game plan for the future of Neverwinter. Many of us are counting on you and some are calling you the Kenobi of Neverwinter since you are “our only (and for many, even the ones who have already left) the LAST hope” for this once great game.
Now for the heads-up part:
This community is very diverse as you have seen in the forums. Some people are toxic (you are going to get that anywhere in the world) but most are just very passionate about this game. Most of the players are in the older age range and many have played since day one. So, when you see posts that are critical, heated, or in some cases rude it is because they are passionate about this game and hate to see it fall from grace and fail. They are not attacks on you.
Now for a little back story so you have a general understanding of where and how the community is currently standing (This is not all players, and in some cases not even most so I can’t and will not speak for all, but this is how I feel and how many others feel that I have talked to, read from posts, and seen in youtube videos/streams)
So, here is what you are currently dealing with when it comes to the community:
Now there was a massive change in the game back when MOD 6 launched. I was not around at the time as I was sailing and missed Mods 5-7 at that time. But there was a large blow back from the massive changes that transpired back then. But again, I was not present for the initial blow back at that time due to work so I won’t comment any more on it other than to say that we lost a large portion of the player base due to that MOD.
Then the next large issue that swept the community was “Huntgate”. This happened in MOD 14 Ravenloft. When MOD 14 went to the preview sever, players tested out the MOD as per usual and feedback was given in the forums for any issues or bugs found. Well, many bugs were found and reported including one that allowed you to “glitch” hunts allowing you to not use the Tarokka cards but still get the rewards. As the weeks went by and the MOD was about to be launched on the live server people were sill reporting this ‘glitch”. Then MOD 14 launched on the Live server with the “glitch”. At first many didn’t know about it. Others didn’t want to try incase Cryptic would ban them. But then several days went by. Reports started to reappear on the forums in the live section about the “glitch”. Still nothing changed or happened. The days became weeks. Slowly the word got around and still no action to fix or even a comment about it from Cryptic. So, more people started to do it and believe it was “just the way neverwinter is” just like peeking into dungeon chests without using a key was for years and many other “glitches”. The weeks became months and then MOD 14 launched on consoles. And still the “glitch” was there. Well, the console players seen what was going on with the PC players and they all started to do it as well. Once again, no fix, no comment, nothing from Cryptic all while it is being reported on the forums. Then a week after the launch on to consoles a post was made stating that actions will be taken on accounts that partook in the “glitch”. Then on that Friday, at the end of the day, it happened. BANS. Bans were given out to the player base on all platforms. Everything from 24 hours to permanent bans. This was a huge blow to the community. Many people didn’t even get an email to tell them how long they have been banned for. Other reported that they were banned but never partook in the “glitch” (no idea if that was true but people have told me that it was) and to top it all off they did it on a Friday at the end of the day so no one could contact anyone about their account. Everyone had to wait till Monday before anything could happen.
This was a huge slap in the face to the player base. Cryptic left a “glitch” in the game for MONTHS all the while it was being reported over and over again in the forums. Instead of saying “we’re sorry about the glitch being there for so long” and fixing it ASAP, they decided to leave it there for MONTHS and then ban people because they didn’t fix a glitch that was well reported. We lost many of the content creators, youtubers, guide makers, streamers, and end game players from this. People lost their friends they played with so they left the game. Guilds lost their leaders and officers and became dead so more people left the game. And many players that were banned (not just perma-ban) left the game and never came back. And to this day, Neverwinter is still feeling the effects of this. And many players including myself will never forget or forgive what happened that day.
Now we move on to MOD 15. This was a kick to the shin for many or some depending on who you talk to (big time for end gamers). This MOD came with some nice damage boosts for most classes if not all. A new campaign that for myself and some or many others (hard to tell sometimes and I hate to speak for others in case they disagree) a boring weak leveling campaign that has nothing to do with D&D unless you like watching Acquisitions Incorporated on youtube. But worst of all a complete overhaul of the professions. Now, don’t get me wrong, change is good and sometimes very much necessary. But in this case, I went have 9 Epic Artisans for every profession to having a bunch of epic and a few rare ones that have HAMSTER stats or bonuses on them. I went from having millions in AD worth of professions artisans, gear and resources to having a fraction of that now. Millions of AD gone. Just like that. And what did they do with the new profession system??? NOTHING. It is useless right now. It's just dead!!! And I'm out millions of AD, and so are many other players.
Well, let’s move on to MOD 16. I’m sure you are most likely up to speed about this one. I won’t waste your time with it about the sweeping changes, bugs, problems, scaling (that used to be in the player zones as well and they had to get rid of it since it didn’t work and removed all forms of progression from players, yet they still kept it in the dungeons), the constant NERFING OF EVERYTHING, and so, so much more... That (once again) many players and end game players didn’t want, like, or willing to put up with. So, they left leaving an even larger gap and making it harder for new players to run content without the players with experience to teach them or carry them.
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But the part that I do want to talk about with MOD 16 has to do with a little-known weapon set called the “Watcher set”. So, when MOD 16 launched no one knew where or how to get the Watcher Weapon set. The tool tip that usually tell you where you can get it from was “Cryptic” (pun intended). We were told that it was an “Easter Egg” and that we would need to figure out how to get it on our own. Well, the player base went to work. Day after day. Night after night. Run after run. We looked everywhere for it. Tried everything we could think of to find it/figure it out. We figured it must be bugged as no one seem to be able to find it or figure it out. Then on a live stream by Cryptic, we were told that “No it is not bugged, keep looking” (can’t remember the exact wording but I know they said it wasn’t bugged and that it was in game somewhere). Then a few days later after the stream (or a week, I can’t remember exact times) there was a PATCH. And what do you know. When running a Master Expedition, a soul puppet appears (never happened before for weeks) and all of a sudden, we were able to get the Watcher set. This wasn’t a few people who managed to figure something out or anything. People just did what they always did and ran their MEs and when they killed a boss it appeared. Now this didn’t happen every time of course as it is RNG based. But after weeks of doing MEs and no one coming across the soul puppet and all the while being told that it was working and that the Watcher set was attainable, there it was after a random PATCH. Why do I bring this up? Well its simple really. They looked at us straight into their web cam and said “it works you just need to find it”. They LIED to us straight to our faces!! LIED!!! That’s the issue. Did we get an apology? Told “sorry we thought that it worked”? NO. They swept it under the rug and anytime someone put anything in their stream chat about it GOT DELETED!! Guess how we feel about this. No very good would be putting it mildly. So yeah, trust is now at an all-time low in the community.
So that’s the general overview of what happened over the years (most in the last year and a bit). I left a lot of stuff out but this is the general stuff you should know. This is what the community has been through. We have been banned for not only poor programming but a lack of willingness to fix a bug or even acknowledge it for MONTHS. Massive changes that put many people out of Millions of AD (in some cases money), Broken MOD 16 with... well everything (Not joking. We still have many problems/bugs since MOD 16 launched. And we still have bugs from years ago that have never been fixed). Sweeping changes to characters. Making combat that was once engaging now feeling slow and boring. Terrible scaling which they removed from zones because of how terrible it was but for some reason kept in dungeons. Nerfing after Nerfing after Nerfing, and we were straight up LIED to.
That is the current state of the community. This is what we have endured. And you want to know what the most important thing is..... WE ARE STILL HERE!!! We love this game. We are passionate about this game. We want this game to be the best MMO in the world. And after all the HAMSTER we have endured we are still here doing whatever we can to make that a reality. But we have lost many along the way. Good people. People who have poured their hearts and souls into this game. It’s a long road ahead for you Chris. We have been burned many times and in many ways. Trust will need to be earned. But we have hope. That hope is in your hands. We are here to help. Sometimes we might be critical. Some posts might be heated. And others might be downright rude. But we are passionate about this game and we are willing to work with you if you are willing to work with us.
Good luck, I’m hoping you will do wonders for Neverwinter.
I wish you the best
Because I'm probably already offtopic: #freefnhusa57
I'm not a supporter of abusing glitches. At all. But I'm even less supportive of abusing the trust players put into NW so often already. I wasn't here for Mod6, but I was here for huntgate, and I know that not everybody banned/stripped knew what they got themselves into, that "fast hunts" happened so much and was reported so often and for such a long time, in comparison to other glitches that got fixed at the same day, that many people thought/assumed that Cryptic considered this much more like an FBI boss glitch than the exploit they banned people for in the end.
I could totally understand executing the TOS we all agreed to, but hey, really, it was reported. It was reported so much that people on PC were totally laughing when the console players got to do the SAME thing they have seen on PC vids before that. Sounds like watching "Guides" on FBI with all various methods how to glitch the bosses. No?
Ah well, whatever now. But yeah, I agree, I can't forget that either.
Or the easter-egg-watcher. I mean, how dumb do you think we are? There were people running all variants of 3-runes they could think of. All day long if they could find somebody else with the quests.
You know what saved my AD (selling most of my profession junk) from M15? A vet telling me to "assume the worst situation". Yeah, thanks a lot. Woo.
Huntgate could have been avoided BY ONE POST on these forums and an INGAME ANNOUNCEMENT! Just one. We got nothing for MONTHS. Even if the post was "we are aware" "abusers will be banned" "we can't fix it right now", but we got nothing.
I lost MILLIONS of AD to the crafting update. Not only that but I also had HUNDREDS of hours of work and research turned into dust so that a "New" now still broken system could be implemented. Don't even get me started on the 3 Forge hammers I bought or grinded for. Still upset about this one. To this day I still have 20+ characters full of the old crafting "junk". I just don't have the heart....
The ANGER I felt when the whole watcher set debacle happened is hard to put into words. I read the forums posts, I watched that live stream. I remember what was said. For a while I thought how cool it was to have an "easter egg" in the game that we had to search for. I wasted hours with guildmates trying everything imaginable. Then there was a patch and POOF. Yeah, Lies, deceit, and outright disdain for the community are the proper words for what happened. SHAME Mr. Foss! SHAME!
I to am still here, even after all of this. Still waiting, still watching.
Thank you @tommy887#0533 for taking the time to write all of this out.
I hope that everyone at Cryptic has to read it and take it to heart.
@cwhitesidedev#9752 does have his work cut out for him. I wish him luck.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
> (Quote)
> This is not nothing.
That is the post of doom.
Ravenloft was on console at the end of August, wasn't it?
So this is the "we will ban some guys but don't ask me if the bans will make sense" post.
That means there was nothing from release on PC (+/- some time until the first hamstery glitch video) end of june until the post you linked.
You also have to admit that we have been down this road before with Cryptic and we all know how that went. I'm not trying to be negative, and IMO neither is the OP. The things that happened are fact and there is no denying that. I think this thread sheds some light on why many of us are jaded and disgruntled or angry. It is important for Chris to see this so that he understands why there is so much anger in the community and why so many no longer play a game that they once loved. Let's also remember that these are only a FEW examples. There are many more, but I think the OP did a great job in picking the incidents that had the most negative impact on the community as a whole.
If you are talking about during the whole Huntgate debacle then I disagree, but like I said in the threads both here and on both reddits that whole situation was handled wrong and could have been easily avoided by BOTH sides. Ultimately it was reported on preview by multiple players both publicly and privately and was not acted on or officially commented on for MONTHS, so in my opinion nothing was done when it could have made a difference back when the exploit was first discovered and reported.
All of these are very heated topics that the community is very passionate about. I'm not trying to poke a hornets nest, but like I said Chris needs to know this history from our perspective and IMO the OP did a great job in providing that information. I hope you see where I am coming from.
*** Edit *** @kreatyve LOL I'm an idiot! I did not realize that there was a link in your post. I'll leave this up anyway though.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10991973
The exploit shouldn't have made it to the console release but that doesn't excuse cheating. Do people need to be told that glitching content and duping items is cheating? It always seemed that there were people whose punishments were excessive but the continued whining a year and a half later is surreal.
Glitching and exploiting has had a story in this game, and of course everybody expects it to be punished - If I had exploited it, I would've known that I acted against the TOS. If I hadn't known and got into a hunt party like this I left immediately, I would also expect not to be perma-banned.
However, if you go from "oh what, you reported something? Huh well now, 3 mods later it doesn't matter anymore" to "Oh yeah lets 3-day suspend this person, let's rip some AD from this person, oh and this one? This one we perma-ban!" is a bit of stretch that doesn't build confidence in the business here.
I'm not defending the folks who used the glitch / exploit I am talking about how the whole situation was handled. The point is that the glitch was reported during preview but yet it went live and then even went live on console. We have seen other "exploits" patched overnight, but for some reason this one went months.
"Now for a little back story so you have a general understanding of where and how the community is currently standing (This is not all players, and in some cases not even most so I can’t and will not speak for all, but this is how I feel and how many others feel that I have talked to, read from posts, and seen in youtube videos/streams)
So, here is what you are currently dealing with when it comes to the community:" -@tommy887
Regardless of the outcome I still think it is important to talk about as far as the purpose this thread goes. Huntgate is something that happened that could have been avoided but was not. It created a divide in the community and contributed to the overall picture that the OP is trying to convey to Chris. The mere fact that so many people have posted about just this aspect / subtopic of this thread speaks to the validity of including it.
Pretty sure nobody wants exploits to ruin the game or the games economy (pretty much the same to me) but, like, it was such a weird way to go for some players. Really.
But, how else do you explain to somebody why you are salty about the game right now without highlighting some of it?
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
BEEEEP "Time to wake up, and remember, no one is responsible for the stupid stuff you choose to do except you, so try not to do anything stupid today!"
They could use specific alarms like "Don't run with scissors today!" "Don't abuse exploits in games today!" "Don't eat any laundry detergent pods today!" and seasonal specials like "Remember, don't eat yellow snow today!" "Don't stare at the sun during today's eclipse..."
Given how many people get in such a state over their own behaviour in abusing exploits being punished there is probably a pretty big market for a phone app that does this.
And people say I don't read others posts. :P
"This was a huge slap in the face to the player base. Cryptic left a “glitch” in the game for MONTHS all the while it was being reported over and over again in the forums. Instead of saying “we’re sorry about the glitch being there for so long” and fixing it ASAP, they decided to leave it there for MONTHS and then ban people because they didn’t fix a glitch that was well reported"
But this, attempting to exonerate people because the exploit went unpatched, has nothing to do with that. Its the same rationalization we've seen since the bans. "Well they didn't patch it so it must be ok' is not a justification for cheating.
And yes, a lot of exploits have gone unpunished in the game. Just because the studio was lax in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't start taking action at a later date. They had to start somewhere if they ever wanted to get to a good place. The severity, again, may have been too much but what has kept dredging this issue up for all this time always seems to be some sort of justification for why no one should have been punished. That is heavily present in the OP and the the reason I posted.
I know people who did it and I bear them no ill will. Some of them who got banned and made new accounts, not my concern. But the idea that somehow this is primarily Cryptic's fault is just a lie that needs to die.
It is also clear that this subject is still even after over a year on people's minds. This further validates it's inclusion in the OP's example.
That means you know how the hunts are supposed to function and how to bypass the intended interaction. There is nothing wrong with knowing, but acting on that knowledge means that you should also know that there could be consequences. And just in case anyone says, "but other people did it and didn't get banned..." Well, just because other people got away with something, doesn't justify someone else getting away with it. If 100 murders are committed and 93 of the murderers are caught, you don't let them go because, "what about the other 7 who weren't caught."
Just my 2 cents.
All the best,
OPTank_
Reading comprehension & intellectual honesty are virtues.
Suggestion to those still high on their toy horses thinking this is about whining about Huntgate: Scroll back. Re-read. Rinse & repeat until realization sets in.
The 'chest peeking' thing is kind of funny though, given than no one knew it was an 'exploit' until suddenly it was. I mean, who knew that simply clicking a button on a UI could be an exploit. But the OP claims to be detailing all of Cryptic's abuses of player trust, and misses out on a huge one, simply swallowing the lie that was told 3 years ago. For those who don't know, there were 2 buttons on the chest UI. One said Accept and the other said Decline. Hit accept and you get the loot and lose your key. Hit Decline and the UI closes. That suddenly became an exploit, after some years of being fine, just clicking the button that was on the UI. Cryptic only pulled this because they wanted to change how chests would work and thought labeling it an exploit would silence criticism. It blew up in their faces in the form of an eighty page thread that eventually got us the loot tables we have now. That's a story that the OP could have told that actually demonstrates what the player base has been through.
@thefabricant is also correct in stating that people need to get over it. Honestly, some of the people I hear complaining about these breaches of trust, and bans and monumental events in NW history weren't even around for them.
There are bigger issues to fry in the here and now than huntgate, coalgate, watergate, frigate, whatevergate. Let's move forward instead of rehashing the same handful of events in the game.
All you're telling Chris is, "hey we like you cause you're new and FOTM but those other guys, oh those guys we'll never trust again". Pretty sure he knows this by now.
Terms. Of. Service. The legality has been handled. The onus does not fall on the studio to determine whether intelligence exists in their users. One could flip your argument and say common sense should exist in users and some exploits are clearly exploits so proceed at your own risk.
And before someone suggest i should report this bug, i've no clue on how to recreate it, it happens rather randomly.
About Huntgate, i think instead of perm. banns they should have gone with account rollbacks to the date the exploit was used the first time, but i guess that would have required more work from their side.
Unlike simple bugs that happen mid fight, to glitch the hunts you had to do something active, and obviously not intended.
I don't know how much person needs to be naive or $##$% to believe the "Couldn't know it was an exploit".
People knew, people ran crapton, people got banned. End of story, simple as that. Some took the responsibility for their choices and actions and others still blame Cryptic... Any issue on Cryptic side (and yes, there is plenty) doesn't absolve players who used a clear as day exploit.
Another person comes to a vending machine, shoves his hand from the bottom with a solid wire trying to fish said cola, while his friend titling the machine and beating on it, so said cola will drop easier.
I suspect any person can see the difference. While there are grey areas, this is not the case, it was not, "I'm doing everything normally and suddenly gained something extra", it was a clear "Do something not intended, to gain something" aka Exploit.