Sorry, can we be satisfied that the current changes are the only changes that cryptic will make for balancing, before mod 18?
I hope not... Warden was nerfed and Hunter is still way from being viable (tested yesterday the whole evening).
They want each of the 6 dps paths to have one viable dps path as for mod 18. These changes are not meant to resolve all of the balancing issues as these require testing and the bigger the change the more the bugs. So for now i would think that the dev's are focusing on non-meta dps classes and assassin, warden and arcanist. The latter two have to be brought DOWN to assassin's level, which is the whole purpose of the nerf and the rest of the non-meta dps classes would have to be BROUGHT up to the assassin's level.
2
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited December 2019
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
I really pity the devs here , theres just no way to have people happy on this tread really
Personal opinion under, feel free to disagree One of the problems with the changes since mod 16 is that we are heading to a game with no options, all Wizards, Barbarians Rogues, Rangers look the same, theres no way to have a new build, there are to few choices to create a real build so what we have now is DPS AOE, DPS ST, Tank and Healer builds
If we get every DPS able to do the same dmg in Single target and aoe all the diference will be animationin encounters and at-wills the old combat style is dying because we are getting more MMO and less D&D each day, I'm not forgeting this was a mmo from start but it is also a D&D game, Wizards, barbarias and Rogues should be places where they shine over others and places when they dont but noone will agree because , they want to have the same "DPS potential in all places"...
I know is a Game, and i know not everyone like multi toons soo feel free to disagree 100% with everthing abouve.
in the end of this my real feedback here will be useles as always but:
The big mistake here is that we have as Base for balance TOMM, that is a place that even the developers call a "point out of the curve" Lomm is also not scaled content and have much more varety than TOMM, there you can get much better stats then in a bis place with only 1 target and a lot of moviment to avoid mechanics...
PS: I am Tomm ready did runs there both on preview and Live server, just dont run that content anymore dont like places where i can't take people with me
Bring back normal and Master style, the lower version allow starters to understand mechanics complet the story and have fun, and the BIG one can give the Best rewards and be a BIG challenge
15
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
Can you remove the way CW charges daily by attacking air thx !
3
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
Can you remove the way CW charges daily by attacking air thx !
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
As much as i was never a fan of "Hurr nurf other classes they too stronk". I have to agree with this guy here. In mod18 HR will be the absolute best DPS in the game, by a far margin. Because HR can use AP based sets (arcturia's strong as hell) and all other classes have had their demo set nerfed, it's somehow an indirect nerf to all of them. Dont get me wrong, its about time demo got nerfed.
But yeah, the point is that in mod18 you will get a massive gap between HR and other dps classes.
Find a way to fix it ! Im not saying nerf HR, buff the ap gain of other classes, or maybe give other classes "discount" dailies at 50% off or something.
8
tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
As much as i was never a fan of "Hurr nurf other classes they too stronk". I have to agree with this guy here. In mod18 HR will be the absolute best DPS in the game, by a far margin. Because HR can use AP based sets (arcturia's strong as hell) and all other classes have had their demo set nerfed, it's somehow an indirect nerf to all of them. Dont get me wrong, its about time demo got nerfed.
But yeah, the point is that in mod18 you will get a massive gap between HR and other dps classes.
Find a way to fix it ! Im not saying nerf HR, buff the ap gain of other classes, or maybe give other classes "discount" dailies at 50% off or something.
For me a new set with good bonus is the solution. But we know that the dev struggles with stats and set bonuses.
The thing is when orcus was BIS, nobody bothers that HR can use Arcturia, but when orcus get nerfed, asking for HR AP nerf is not the solution.
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
Forest ghost or disruptive shot with that sweet buffed magnitude of 300 at 100% AP cost, that's the stuff. So no, disagree strongly here. They already effectively removed our ranged stance, so taking away another distinguishing feature would be really sad. If you are that concerned, HR already has a class feature that works based on AP spent on a daily cast, so make the set buffs work like this. Ultimately I think that binding so many artifact set buffs to daily casts is stupid to begin with.
3
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Sorry, can we be satisfied that the current changes are the only changes that cryptic will make for balancing, before mod 18?
I hope not... Warden was nerfed and Hunter is still way from being viable (tested yesterday the whole evening).
They want each of the 6 dps paths to have one viable dps path as for mod 18. These changes are not meant to resolve all of the balancing issues as these require testing and the bigger the change the more the bugs. So for now i would think that the dev's are focusing on non-meta dps classes and assassin, warden and arcanist. The latter two have to be brought DOWN to assassin's level, which is the whole purpose of the nerf and the rest of the non-meta dps classes would have to be BROUGHT up to the assassin's level.
I understand this is what they are doing but it's a bad excuse. Why should Paladins, Clerics, Warlocks and so on have 2 viable paths and Rogies, Wizards and Rangers only one? By the way, having two DPS paths for a class is silly to start with. Take ranger: warden (so melee) should be the DPS path and Hunter should be DPS/control/support. Support is dead for rangers (no more feat bumping support powers, Longstrider buff gone, etc..) and control is useless. Bring back support and control and nobody will complain about hunters being behind in DPS. By the way give control and support to Hunters and nobody will complain about them being able to churn more dailies out.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
1
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
Ehm, only hunter can effectively keep a decent uptime of those. Try playing one. I did for the last three days and it's still way behind Warden. I think the best solution would be having more variety in set bonuses.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I'm giving away free HR dailys, try them out but beware: you can't give them back after...
Nobody is specifying anything now, jist worried about their class being left behind. What are we comparing, Warden, Hunter? To what, Arcanist? ST? Last time I checked we are talking about a period of time (Tomm? Citadel?) and depending on what content and what class (+ already mentioned nerfs) a "slight" difference in AP gain and total dmg regardless of how often you can trigger arcturia set bonus. So. If HR does less dmg than another class but can blast dailys more often (dailys that are or aren' ST... I mean...) and trigger the set more often (truly...) does that mean its instantly what, 8% ahead? What, you wanna be able to fire your kick-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dailys twice as often now?
Sorry, can we be satisfied that the current changes are the only changes that cryptic will make for balancing, before mod 18?
I hope not... Warden was nerfed and Hunter is still way from being viable (tested yesterday the whole evening).
They want each of the 6 dps paths to have one viable dps path as for mod 18. These changes are not meant to resolve all of the balancing issues as these require testing and the bigger the change the more the bugs. So for now i would think that the dev's are focusing on non-meta dps classes and assassin, warden and arcanist. The latter two have to be brought DOWN to assassin's level, which is the whole purpose of the nerf and the rest of the non-meta dps classes would have to be BROUGHT up to the assassin's level.
I understand this is what they are doing but it's a bad excuse. Why should Paladins, Clerics, Warlocks and so on have 2 viable paths and Rogies, Wizards and Rangers only one? By the way, having two DPS paths for a class is silly to start with. Take ranger: warden (so melee) should be the DPS path and Hunter should be DPS/control/support. Support is dead for rangers (no more feat bumping support powers, Longstrider buff gone, etc..) and control is useless. Bring back support and control and nobody will complain about hunters being behind in DPS. By the way give control and support to Hunters and nobody will complain about them being able to churn more dailies out.
I agree, both paragons of all classes should be balanced and viable. Although, as of right now, one paragon for pure dps classes is performing better than their other paragon, in nearly all situations. So in reality, they are not being punished. But, warlocks and dps barbs that had build a dps path are heavily punished because power is the most expensive stat to build. Logically, the dev's would like to prioritize the imbalance between the performing dps classes and then worry about hunter and etc. In the same way, a paladin is basically taking over DC and SW and even the tank roles, pretty darn easily. Don't take this statement as the other tank/healing classes not being viable but a good paladin healer/tank will laugh on the face of other classes. We might have 2 functional paths, but none of them are the most desired, so it balances out. But i know for a fact that 90% or more of barbs and warlocks wouldn't even like to think about healing/tanking, if they are the dps. Those are the ones that are actually being affected the most because of this class imbalance.
But i agree, the dev's really need to pick their speed up. This isn't the only MMO out there.
Is the Vanguard unique? only he is turned off the main class mechanics "Way of the Vanguard" in pvp ?? the shield is also cut off - it is cut off in one hit 80-100k. Who invented this ?? Please fire the game master, who hurt the game so much !!!
A little shield - in the end there is no anti-control !! Everything is very bad !!! A lot of Vanguards in pvp?
While a nerf to wizard shield was needed in PVP, the nerf shield got probably killed that power altogether. I doubt the shield power will remain in use at all. While that outcome is preferable to leaving shield as it is on live, I'd look into finding a way to make wizard shield useful at least.
As for how I'd expect PVP wizards to adjust to shield being nerfed, good ones likely would go glass cannon, similar to what the best rogues and rangers do. Likely very scary if using 4 dps encounters. They'd have some forms of defense like a little bit of self healing and shadowclad, and probably a little more HP than they currently run. Some might also add in some crit aviod.
It might be possible to build wizard similarly to dps clerics, which can have nearly maxed out defense and crit aviod and still dish out high damage. I don't know much about cleric's mechanics but I do know this build runs high critical chance in addition to high defense and crit aviod.
At any rate, wizard will probably be fine, though I won't be suprised if a bunch of wizards cry about this nerf for a bit.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others. Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter). Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
OR *you* could change your playstyle...you know, use a leg snail instead of a power mount, put your ability points in Con instead or Str or Int, pick the AP gain boon instead of another, pick the AP gain offhand instead of power, use greater corrupted black ice overloads, use gear that gives AP for kills instead of power or percentage damage, use lathander's dew rather than watermelon sorbet, play as sun or moon elf rather than as a dragonborn...and that is just off the top of my head.
There are plenty of ways to get AP--and therefore dailies--if you *choose*; people act like there is only one way to play this game.
I really pity the devs here , theres just no way to have people happy on this tread really
Personal opinion under, feel free to disagree One of the problems with the changes since mod 16 is that we are heading to a game with no options, all Wizards, Barbarians Rogues, Rangers look the same, theres no way to have a new build, there are to few choices to create a real build so what we have now is DPS AOE, DPS ST, Tank and Healer builds
If we get every DPS able to do the same dmg in Single target and aoe all the diference will be animationin encounters and at-wills the old combat style is dying because we are getting more MMO and less D&D each day, I'm not forgeting this was a mmo from start but it is also a D&D game, Wizards, barbarias and Rogues should be places where they shine over others and places when they dont but noone will agree because , they want to have the same "DPS potential in all places"...
I know is a Game, and i know not everyone like multi toons soo feel free to disagree 100% with everthing abouve.
in the end of this my real feedback here will be useles as always but:
The big mistake here is that we have as Base for balance TOMM, that is a place that even the developers call a "point out of the curve" Lomm is also not scaled content and have much more varety than TOMM, there you can get much better stats then in a bis place with only 1 target and a lot of moviment to avoid mechanics...
PS: I am Tomm ready did runs there both on preview and Live server, just dont run that content anymore dont like places where i can't take people with me
Bring back normal and Master style, the lower version allow starters to understand mechanics complet the story and have fun, and the BIG one can give the Best rewards and be a BIG challenge
In short: Cryptic should have left well enough alone, and kept the pre-Mod 16 classes, sub-classes, feats, powers, boons, etc. As others have posted previously in these forums: Neverwinter wasn't broken before, but with Mod 16 it shattered.
> @rubytrue said: > (Quote) > OR *you* could change your playstyle...you know, use a leg snail instead of a power mount, put your ability points in Con instead or Str or Int, pick the AP gain boon instead of another, pick the AP gain offhand instead of power, use greater corrupted black ice overloads, use gear that gives AP for kills instead of power or percentage damage, use lathander's dew rather than watermelon sorbet, play as sun or moon elf rather than as a dragonborn...and that is just off the top of my head. > > There are plenty of ways to get AP--and therefore dailies--if you *choose*; people act like there is only one way to play this game.
Maybe you didn't understand what he wrote. Doesn't matter how fast you gain but how fast you can use the daily to proc the bonus , hr can get 4 proc in time some other class can get 1. Not hr fault tho as they need to change those requirements for bonus to proc not on daily and not ruin a class for bad bonus decisions.
Hey @noworries#8859 Sad story thaumaturge everytime, why everytime didn't fix bug game develepors ? Why 190k power barbarian does more damage for thaumaturge ? Developers didn't fix any bug for thaumaturge ...
> @mrx2#5341 said: > Hey @noworries#8859 > Sad story thaumaturge everytime, why everytime didn't fix bug game develepors ? > Why 190k power barbarian does more damage for thaumaturge ? > Developers didn't fix any bug for thaumaturge ...
Hm already posted but in what dangeon and why not? 🤔
Avernus was one of my favorite D&D adventures when I was playing tabletop. But my excitement at coming back to play something I liked was killed by the warlock not really getting any significant fixes/changes to bring it back in line with other classes.
Warlocks are still throwing out banana skins instead of dealing damage. And the enemies are still immune to banana skins.
I really pity the devs here , theres just no way to have people happy on this tread really
Personal opinion under, feel free to disagree One of the problems with the changes since mod 16 is that we are heading to a game with no options, all Wizards, Barbarians Rogues, Rangers look the same, theres no way to have a new build, there are to few choices to create a real build so what we have now is DPS AOE, DPS ST, Tank and Healer builds
If we get every DPS able to do the same dmg in Single target and aoe all the diference will be animationin encounters and at-wills the old combat style is dying because we are getting more MMO and less D&D each day, I'm not forgeting this was a mmo from start but it is also a D&D game, Wizards, barbarias and Rogues should be places where they shine over others and places when they dont but noone will agree because , they want to have the same "DPS potential in all places"...
I know is a Game, and i know not everyone like multi toons soo feel free to disagree 100% with everthing abouve.
I'm very much agree with your point of vue.
I think it's an utopia to find the "absolute balance" in a PvE group context between each class within an archetype (ex : dps). Balance in a group should be achieve by the concept of "everyone is at one point useless and have to rely on others, but then will shine as the savior in another area", and design class and dungeons accordingly.
I want to play a rogue who by design completely sucks at AoE, multi-target and mostly unable to deal with 10 weaklings, but who is a beast as a solo-target sneaky killer against strong ones with hard positionning conditions (perfect pincer, hit right in the back, etc).
I want traps to be a bigdeal if you trigger one (instant kill ?) so you may sometime want (or need because unavoidable) to defuse rather than ignore. I want arcanic traps rogues can't detect nor disarm, but sorcerer/mage can. I want divine tests cleric and pal are the only one able to resolve.
I want to play a mage who is completely underperforming against the strong lone foes but who has the ability to literally vaporize any large trash mobs of weaklings.
I want to see ennemies attacking you from an unreacheable position far away so you need to have long range attack (and a party who is purely composed with body-to-body infighters with only medium range attacks would be completely doomed there).
I want to see more boss fights where the group HAVE TO multitask and divide who do what : ideas like ToNG second boss (kill the dwarves in the corners of the room to shut down the elemental devices around the boss) but which you can't bypass or ignore with bruteforce. Fights where one dps is require to act more as an hybrid between dps and offtank (can be fighter spe), fights where you get swarm by invicible foes who hit super hard but have big malus on control resist allowing perma or nearly perma CC (wizard or ranger spe). I want to see foes that have extra layers of armor (ex T-Rex) so direct hits deal low to no damage to their HP but are also very vulnerable to poison/DoT status (can be sorcerer spe).
I want to see foes with huge resistances in one field (magic/physical/divine) but vulnerable to others, and mobs throwing various resistances so as a barbarian you want to focus on the fraction that is vulnerable to physical and let the magical girl take down the one you are not efficient against.
I want dungeons were a team with 3 wizards (or 3 rogues, or 3 whatever mono class) as dps is doomed to fail while at the same time a team with 1 wizard 1 dps barb 1 dps cleric can easily fend through.
One way to create the need of class variety in dungeons, is to design unbalanced things only 1 or 2 classes are able to do well. If you try to reach class variety with balancing classes so every class is roughly able to perform exactly the same as any other, then you will fail because with an asymetrical gameplay you will always have one who is better than every other. Even symetrical games as chess or go are not balanced (though draw is the most common result, white tends to win more than black in high level chess. Black has a huge advantage in go if no handicap/komi).
If i compare with car racing : I want the rogue to be a dragster, I want the barb to be a rally car, i want the wizard to be a F1, i want the ranger to be a big 4x4, etc. And I want a dungeon to be at first a dirty offroad, fight the first boss on an asphalt straight road, then travelling in a sandy desert to the get to the 2nd boss, fight him on the monaco/montecarlo GP circuit, and at last climb a rocky mountain to the final boss.
Do you want every classes to be a kart and all the dungeons to be a kart racing ?
While a nerf to wizard shield was needed in PVP, the nerf shield got probably killed that power altogether. I doubt the shield power will remain in use at all. While that outcome is preferable to leaving shield as it is on live, I'd look into finding a way to make wizard shield useful at least.
As for how I'd expect PVP wizards to adjust to shield being nerfed, good ones likely would go glass cannon, similar to what the best rogues and rangers do. Likely very scary if using 4 dps encounters. They'd have some forms of defense like a little bit of self healing and shadowclad, and probably a little more HP than they currently run. Some might also add in some crit aviod.
It might be possible to build wizard similarly to dps clerics, which can have nearly maxed out defense and crit aviod and still dish out high damage. I don't know much about cleric's mechanics but I do know this build runs high critical chance in addition to high defense and crit aviod.
At any rate, wizard will probably be fine, though I won't be suprised if a bunch of wizards cry about this nerf for a bit.
I would not go full glass cannon in PVP. Every other class has faster casting times, and casting powers on wizards is a bit odd. It takes time to build up stacks of chill and arcane mastery to get your buffs up to do good damage, not to mention that control sucks in pvp (except if you're a ranger or rogue), so you need to be able to survive, and since you can't dodge but once or twice, all they will need to do is sneeze and you'll blow over.
I think it was a mistake to nerf shield so much if at-all. I've tried building a tanky wizard in pvp (in m17), it changed being one rotated by rogues and rangers to taking two rotations. The shield isn't all that powerful.
What they need to do is find a balance between M16 and M17, they need to reduce damage taken and healing, no reason a rogue should one rotate the tank on your team like he's just butter. Sometimes they can even get you with just an encounter and a daily. Also, while the new simpler mechanics of stats may work in PVE, they don't work well in PVP. To have any defense or deflect chance, you have stack over Arm Pen and Accuracy, but by the time you've invested so much into defense, and you get your 10% DR (after 80k defense), you have no stats left for anything else, and they can still one rotate you. It's better to invest in stats such as Arm Pen, Accuracy, Awareness, and Crit Avoidance, because you only ever need to reach a minimum for those stats to be maximally effective. Every thing else (other than hp and power) has to be stacked over and over invested in to be effective. This is problematic for builds that rely on crits to proc other class features/feats.
Try explaining why we need a larger stat pool in PVP, and people just say that it's not fair to allow people to get stats from companion bonuses. They blame this that and the other, but the real problem is the core mechanics.
Hello everybody, fresh Barbarian at-wills test from preview (Brash strike 90 magnitude)
Scaling Relentless Slash damage to 1.00, my result are:
Sure strike 0.90 Brash Strike 0.86
The test constraints: - hit a dummy for 120 second starting from empty rage bar - primary weapon bonus set to the tested atwill - relentless slash buff 100% uptime. - Steel Blitz + Barbed Strikes
All the 3 tested at-wills trigger Battlerage 3 times at full rage bar. Bilethorn contribution is around 18-20% Steel blitz contribution around 9-11%
Time spent to fill the rage bar completely: - Sure strike 20 seconds - Relentless Slash 22 seconds - Brash strike 30 seconds
0
gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
I always remember my first epic dungeon. It was the Frozen Heart. At the final boss the strategy was quite unusual: the tank just aggroed all melee mobs and ran in circles close to the entrance, the cleric healed him while keeping an eye on others. A ranged DPS (me) had the task of taking out archers who would have otherwise killed the tank and the other two DPS tanked and killed the boss. It felt great, and nobody discussed about who did the most damage because everybody had a different thing to do.
In the Dread Vault we often played like this: the tank, a CW and the cleric stayed on the back of the final boss close to the ledge. One DPS stayed closer to the boss, aggro'ed all mobs and brought them to the other three. At that point the tank took over the aggro to keep them there, and the CW pushed them over the ledge. The DC helped a bit in pushing (via Sunburst) and healed the tank and the aggroing DPS. The last DPS focused on the boss. Once again no quarrels about who did the most damage...
Compare this with all the single boss fights we have now, where we are arguing about 3% more or less DPS on a static single target...
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
TR needs gameplay adjustments, it's too boring, simple, raw. Feats don't give you freedom of choice, all TRs use the same feats. I can't understand how you think this is a "target" for all classes. Improve the gameplay of TR too... I'm not asking for buffs, I'm asking for improvements on TR assassin feats.
In short: Cryptic should have left well enough alone, and kept the pre-Mod 16 classes, sub-classes, feats, powers, boons, etc. As others have posted previously in these forums: Neverwinter wasn't broken before, but with Mod 16 it shattered.
*laughs in pressing 3 buttons to instantly delete bosses*
I mean, there were broken aspects with excess, but the core system didn't need to be completely scrapped like with Mod 16.
I want to play a rogue who by design completely sucks at AoE, multi-target and mostly unable to deal with 10 weaklings, but who is a beast as a solo-target sneaky killer against strong ones with hard positionning conditions (perfect pincer, hit right in the back, etc).
I want traps to be a bigdeal if you trigger one (instant kill ?) so you may sometime want (or need because unavoidable) to defuse rather than ignore. I want arcanic traps rogues can't detect nor disarm, but sorcerer/mage can. I want divine tests cleric and pal are the only one able to resolve.
I want to play a mage who is completely underperforming against the strong lone foes but who has the ability to literally vaporize any large trash mobs of weaklings.
I want to see ennemies attacking you from an unreacheable position far away so you need to have long range attack (and a party who is purely composed with body-to-body infighters with only medium range attacks would be completely doomed there).
I want to see more boss fights where the group HAVE TO multitask and divide who do what : ideas like ToNG second boss (kill the dwarves in the corners of the room to shut down the elemental devices around the boss) but which you can't bypass or ignore with bruteforce. Fights where one dps is require to act more as an hybrid between dps and offtank (can be fighter spe), fights where you get swarm by invicible foes who hit super hard but have big malus on control resist allowing perma or nearly perma CC (wizard or ranger spe). I want to see foes that have extra layers of armor (ex T-Rex) so direct hits deal low to no damage to their HP but are also very vulnerable to poison/DoT status (can be sorcerer spe).
I want to see foes with huge resistances in one field (magic/physical/divine) but vulnerable to others, and mobs throwing various resistances so as a barbarian you want to focus on the fraction that is vulnerable to physical and let the magical girl take down the one you are not efficient against.
Yes please to having more situations that require different tools.
I want dungeons were a team with 3 wizards (or 3 rogues, or 3 whatever mono class) as dps is doomed to fail while at the same time a team with 1 wizard 1 dps barb 1 dps cleric can easily fend through.
One way to create the need of class variety in dungeons, is to design unbalanced things only 1 or 2 classes are able to do well. If you try to reach class variety with balancing classes so every class is roughly able to perform exactly the same as any other, then you will fail because with an asymetrical gameplay you will always have one who is better than every other. Even symetrical games as chess or go are not balanced (though draw is the most common result, white tends to win more than black in high level chess. Black has a huge advantage in go if no handicap/komi).
... but my only critique with this system is with the current "1 dungeon per module" thing that's going on. A dungeon that is unwinnable with specific classes is not such a great idea when content is given every 4 months or so.
For example, I wouldn't want the next dungeon to be "bring melee attackers or lose because enemies have ridiculous magic resistance" and have the spellcasters twiddle their thumbs for 4 months. Same for the inverse situation with physical attackers.
If more dungeons come more often, or there are more dungeons released with each module with the varied situations, then I wouldn't mind as much.
> OR *you* could change your playstyle...you know, use a leg snail instead of a power mount, put your ability points in Con instead or Str or Int, pick the AP gain boon instead of another, pick the AP gain offhand instead of power, use greater corrupted black ice overloads, use gear that gives AP for kills instead of power or percentage damage, use lathander's dew rather than watermelon sorbet, play as sun or moon elf rather than as a dragonborn...and that is just off the top of my head.
>
> There are plenty of ways to get AP--and therefore dailies--if you *choose*; people act like there is only one way to play this game.
Maybe you didn't understand what he wrote.
Doesn't matter how fast you gain but how fast you can use the daily to proc the bonus , hr can get 4 proc in time some other class can get 1. Not hr fault tho as they need to change those requirements for bonus to proc not on daily and not ruin a class for bad bonus decisions.
Fair enough.
I would just hate to see our dailies changed simply because they have such low damage magnitude. The fact that we can use them more often and the impact they have on our other powers is what keeps warden (and hopefully, hunter) in line with other dps at all.
The bonus from music box set not only requires the use of a daily, but it also requires correct positioning which also eats into time/dps equation.
There has been decent talk in this thread of fixing several of the issues with Thaumaturge around smolder such as:
Critical Conflagration will only apply smolder to one target even when an AoE crits Directed Flames does only 50% of the smolder damage instead of 75% like it should (and like it does with Rimefire) When using AoE powers to cause Rimefire, it only applies to one target
The good news is that I'm actively looking into these to get fixes in place.
The bad news is, it will also be time to fix Directed Flames. Directed Flames is intended to do 75% of the damage smolder would have done over time when it first lands, and then not be able to be reapplied to the target until the normal smolder time has passed (can apply once every 12 seconds). This has obviously not been the case as it can just keep reapplying over and over making it much more powerful than Smolder itself.
The original intent was to have a feat that made smolder more useful for quicker fights where the critters die faster than 12 seconds.
There wasn't a rush to fix this as Thaumaturge wasn't crushing the DPS charts (and contrary to some beliefs, we don't prioritize all player benefiting bugs to the top of the list), but some of these other fixes will actually necessitate fixing that now.
As an additional change to go along with that, I was considering changing Rimefire Weaving to be "A stack of chill or smolder on a target will decrease its damage resistance to your attacks by 5%, having Rimefire on the target will decrease it by 10%." I would be interested to hear from Wizards how they feel about that change to Rimefire Weaving.
Comments
rangers need adjustment to their daily powers to cost 1000 ap as any other class because atm only ranger can use action point based sets more effective than others.
Atm forest ghost has cost 50 ap(hunter and warden) call of the storm 500 ap ( warden) and disruptive shot 250 ap( hunter).
Change them all to 1000.
OR give a low ap cost daily to each class.
Personal opinion under, feel free to disagree
One of the problems with the changes since mod 16 is that we are heading to a game with no options, all Wizards, Barbarians Rogues, Rangers look the same, theres no way to have a new build, there are to few choices to create a real build so what we have now is DPS AOE, DPS ST, Tank and Healer builds
If we get every DPS able to do the same dmg in Single target and aoe all the diference will be animationin encounters and at-wills the old combat style is dying because we are getting more MMO and less D&D each day, I'm not forgeting this was a mmo from start but it is also a D&D game, Wizards, barbarias and Rogues should be places where they shine over others and places when they dont but noone will agree because , they want to have the same "DPS potential in all places"...
I know is a Game, and i know not everyone like multi toons soo feel free to disagree 100% with everthing abouve.
in the end of this my real feedback here will be useles as always but:
The big mistake here is that we have as Base for balance TOMM, that is a place that even the developers call a "point out of the curve" Lomm is also not scaled content and have much more varety than TOMM, there you can get much better stats then in a bis place with only 1 target and a lot of moviment to avoid mechanics...
PS: I am Tomm ready did runs there both on preview and Live server, just dont run that content anymore dont like places where i can't take people with me
Bring back normal and Master style, the lower version allow starters to understand mechanics complet the story and have fun, and the BIG one can give the Best rewards and be a BIG challenge
In mod18 HR will be the absolute best DPS in the game, by a far margin. Because HR can use AP based sets (arcturia's strong as hell) and all other classes have had their demo set nerfed, it's somehow an indirect nerf to all of them. Dont get me wrong, its about time demo got nerfed.
But yeah, the point is that in mod18 you will get a massive gap between HR and other dps classes.
Find a way to fix it ! Im not saying nerf HR, buff the ap gain of other classes, or maybe give other classes "discount" dailies at 50% off or something.
The thing is when orcus was BIS, nobody bothers that HR can use Arcturia, but when orcus get nerfed, asking for HR AP nerf is not the solution.
Give us new shiny useful sets !
By the way, having two DPS paths for a class is silly to start with. Take ranger: warden (so melee) should be the DPS path and Hunter should be DPS/control/support. Support is dead for rangers (no more feat bumping support powers, Longstrider buff gone, etc..) and control is useless. Bring back support and control and nobody will complain about hunters being behind in DPS.
By the way give control and support to Hunters and nobody will complain about them being able to churn more dailies out.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Nobody is specifying anything now, jist worried about their class being left behind.
What are we comparing, Warden, Hunter? To what, Arcanist? ST?
Last time I checked we are talking about a period of time (Tomm? Citadel?) and depending on what content and what class (+ already mentioned nerfs) a "slight" difference in AP gain and total dmg regardless of how often you can trigger arcturia set bonus.
So. If HR does less dmg than another class but can blast dailys more often (dailys that are or aren' ST... I mean...) and trigger the set more often (truly...) does that mean its instantly what, 8% ahead? What, you wanna be able to fire your kick-<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dailys twice as often now?
But i agree, the dev's really need to pick their speed up. This isn't the only MMO out there.
A little shield - in the end there is no anti-control !! Everything is very bad !!! A lot of Vanguards in pvp?
As for how I'd expect PVP wizards to adjust to shield being nerfed, good ones likely would go glass cannon, similar to what the best rogues and rangers do. Likely very scary if using 4 dps encounters. They'd have some forms of defense like a little bit of self healing and shadowclad, and probably a little more HP than they currently run. Some might also add in some crit aviod.
It might be possible to build wizard similarly to dps clerics, which can have nearly maxed out defense and crit aviod and still dish out high damage. I don't know much about cleric's mechanics but I do know this build runs high critical chance in addition to high defense and crit aviod.
At any rate, wizard will probably be fine, though I won't be suprised if a bunch of wizards cry about this nerf for a bit.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
There are plenty of ways to get AP--and therefore dailies--if you *choose*; people act like there is only one way to play this game.
In short: Cryptic should have left well enough alone, and kept the pre-Mod 16 classes, sub-classes, feats, powers, boons, etc. As others have posted previously in these forums: Neverwinter wasn't broken before, but with Mod 16 it shattered.
> (Quote)
> OR *you* could change your playstyle...you know, use a leg snail instead of a power mount, put your ability points in Con instead or Str or Int, pick the AP gain boon instead of another, pick the AP gain offhand instead of power, use greater corrupted black ice overloads, use gear that gives AP for kills instead of power or percentage damage, use lathander's dew rather than watermelon sorbet, play as sun or moon elf rather than as a dragonborn...and that is just off the top of my head.
>
> There are plenty of ways to get AP--and therefore dailies--if you *choose*; people act like there is only one way to play this game.
Maybe you didn't understand what he wrote.
Doesn't matter how fast you gain but how fast you can use the daily to proc the bonus , hr can get 4 proc in time some other class can get 1. Not hr fault tho as they need to change those requirements for bonus to proc not on daily and not ruin a class for bad bonus decisions.
The imaginary Friends
Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
Sad story thaumaturge everytime, why everytime didn't fix bug game develepors ?
Why 190k power barbarian does more damage for thaumaturge ?
Developers didn't fix any bug for thaumaturge ...
> Hey @noworries#8859
> Sad story thaumaturge everytime, why everytime didn't fix bug game develepors ?
> Why 190k power barbarian does more damage for thaumaturge ?
> Developers didn't fix any bug for thaumaturge ...
Hm already posted but in what dangeon and why not? 🤔
The imaginary Friends
Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
Warlocks are still throwing out banana skins instead of dealing damage. And the enemies are still immune to banana skins.
Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
I'm very much agree with your point of vue.
I think it's an utopia to find the "absolute balance" in a PvE group context between each class within an archetype (ex : dps).
Balance in a group should be achieve by the concept of "everyone is at one point useless and have to rely on others, but then will shine as the savior in another area", and design class and dungeons accordingly.
I want to play a rogue who by design completely sucks at AoE, multi-target and mostly unable to deal with 10 weaklings, but who is a beast as a solo-target sneaky killer against strong ones with hard positionning conditions (perfect pincer, hit right in the back, etc).
I want traps to be a bigdeal if you trigger one (instant kill ?) so you may sometime want (or need because unavoidable) to defuse rather than ignore.
I want arcanic traps rogues can't detect nor disarm, but sorcerer/mage can. I want divine tests cleric and pal are the only one able to resolve.
I want to play a mage who is completely underperforming against the strong lone foes but who has the ability to literally vaporize any large trash mobs of weaklings.
I want to see ennemies attacking you from an unreacheable position far away so you need to have long range attack (and a party who is purely composed with body-to-body infighters with only medium range attacks would be completely doomed there).
I want to see more boss fights where the group HAVE TO multitask and divide who do what : ideas like ToNG second boss (kill the dwarves in the corners of the room to shut down the elemental devices around the boss) but which you can't bypass or ignore with bruteforce. Fights where one dps is require to act more as an hybrid between dps and offtank (can be fighter spe), fights where you get swarm by invicible foes who hit super hard but have big malus on control resist allowing perma or nearly perma CC (wizard or ranger spe).
I want to see foes that have extra layers of armor (ex T-Rex) so direct hits deal low to no damage to their HP but are also very vulnerable to poison/DoT status (can be sorcerer spe).
I want to see foes with huge resistances in one field (magic/physical/divine) but vulnerable to others, and mobs throwing various resistances so as a barbarian you want to focus on the fraction that is vulnerable to physical and let the magical girl take down the one you are not efficient against.
I want dungeons were a team with 3 wizards (or 3 rogues, or 3 whatever mono class) as dps is doomed to fail while at the same time a team with 1 wizard 1 dps barb 1 dps cleric can easily fend through.
One way to create the need of class variety in dungeons, is to design unbalanced things only 1 or 2 classes are able to do well. If you try to reach class variety with balancing classes so every class is roughly able to perform exactly the same as any other, then you will fail because with an asymetrical gameplay you will always have one who is better than every other.
Even symetrical games as chess or go are not balanced (though draw is the most common result, white tends to win more than black in high level chess. Black has a huge advantage in go if no handicap/komi).
If i compare with car racing : I want the rogue to be a dragster, I want the barb to be a rally car, i want the wizard to be a F1, i want the ranger to be a big 4x4, etc.
And I want a dungeon to be at first a dirty offroad, fight the first boss on an asphalt straight road, then travelling in a sandy desert to the get to the 2nd boss, fight him on the monaco/montecarlo GP circuit, and at last climb a rocky mountain to the final boss.
Do you want every classes to be a kart and all the dungeons to be a kart racing ?
I think it was a mistake to nerf shield so much if at-all. I've tried building a tanky wizard in pvp (in m17), it changed being one rotated by rogues and rangers to taking two rotations. The shield isn't all that powerful.
What they need to do is find a balance between M16 and M17, they need to reduce damage taken and healing, no reason a rogue should one rotate the tank on your team like he's just butter. Sometimes they can even get you with just an encounter and a daily. Also, while the new simpler mechanics of stats may work in PVE, they don't work well in PVP. To have any defense or deflect chance, you have stack over Arm Pen and Accuracy, but by the time you've invested so much into defense, and you get your 10% DR (after 80k defense), you have no stats left for anything else, and they can still one rotate you. It's better to invest in stats such as Arm Pen, Accuracy, Awareness, and Crit Avoidance, because you only ever need to reach a minimum for those stats to be maximally effective. Every thing else (other than hp and power) has to be stacked over and over invested in to be effective. This is problematic for builds that rely on crits to proc other class features/feats.
Try explaining why we need a larger stat pool in PVP, and people just say that it's not fair to allow people to get stats from companion bonuses. They blame this that and the other, but the real problem is the core mechanics.
fresh Barbarian at-wills test from preview (Brash strike 90 magnitude)
Scaling Relentless Slash damage to 1.00, my result are:
Sure strike 0.90
Brash Strike 0.86
The test constraints:
- hit a dummy for 120 second starting from empty rage bar
- primary weapon bonus set to the tested atwill
- relentless slash buff 100% uptime.
- Steel Blitz + Barbed Strikes
All the 3 tested at-wills trigger Battlerage 3 times at full rage bar.
Bilethorn contribution is around 18-20%
Steel blitz contribution around 9-11%
Time spent to fill the rage bar completely:
- Sure strike 20 seconds
- Relentless Slash 22 seconds
- Brash strike 30 seconds
In the Dread Vault we often played like this: the tank, a CW and the cleric stayed on the back of the final boss close to the ledge. One DPS stayed closer to the boss, aggro'ed all mobs and brought them to the other three. At that point the tank took over the aggro to keep them there, and the CW pushed them over the ledge. The DC helped a bit in pushing (via Sunburst) and healed the tank and the aggroing DPS. The last DPS focused on the boss. Once again no quarrels about who did the most damage...
Compare this with all the single boss fights we have now, where we are arguing about 3% more or less DPS on a static single target...
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I mean, there were broken aspects with excess, but the core system didn't need to be completely scrapped like with Mod 16. Yes please to having more situations that require different tools. ... but my only critique with this system is with the current "1 dungeon per module" thing that's going on. A dungeon that is unwinnable with specific classes is not such a great idea when content is given every 4 months or so.
For example, I wouldn't want the next dungeon to be "bring melee attackers or lose because enemies have ridiculous magic resistance" and have the spellcasters twiddle their thumbs for 4 months. Same for the inverse situation with physical attackers.
If more dungeons come more often, or there are more dungeons released with each module with the varied situations, then I wouldn't mind as much.
I would just hate to see our dailies changed simply because they have such low damage magnitude. The fact that we can use them more often and the impact they have on our other powers is what keeps warden (and hopefully, hunter) in line with other dps at all.
The bonus from music box set not only requires the use of a daily, but it also requires correct positioning which also eats into time/dps equation.
There has been decent talk in this thread of fixing several of the issues with Thaumaturge around smolder such as:
Critical Conflagration will only apply smolder to one target even when an AoE crits
Directed Flames does only 50% of the smolder damage instead of 75% like it should (and like it does with Rimefire)
When using AoE powers to cause Rimefire, it only applies to one target
The good news is that I'm actively looking into these to get fixes in place.
The bad news is, it will also be time to fix Directed Flames. Directed Flames is intended to do 75% of the damage smolder would have done over time when it first lands, and then not be able to be reapplied to the target until the normal smolder time has passed (can apply once every 12 seconds). This has obviously not been the case as it can just keep reapplying over and over making it much more powerful than Smolder itself.
The original intent was to have a feat that made smolder more useful for quicker fights where the critters die faster than 12 seconds.
There wasn't a rush to fix this as Thaumaturge wasn't crushing the DPS charts (and contrary to some beliefs, we don't prioritize all player benefiting bugs to the top of the list), but some of these other fixes will actually necessitate fixing that now.
As an additional change to go along with that, I was considering changing Rimefire Weaving to be "A stack of chill or smolder on a target will decrease its damage resistance to your attacks by 5%, having Rimefire on the target will decrease it by 10%." I would be interested to hear from Wizards how they feel about that change to Rimefire Weaving.