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M18 Class Balance Adjustments

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  • anoreksjaanoreksja Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    nemesrich said:

    I do appreciate all of the feedback in this thread. To reiterate from the original post, this isn't a final balance pass on the game nor will it bring all dps classes as close together as we'd like. This was a quicker, less thorough and less polished set of changes in order to get some adjustments in quicker. There will continue to be other adjustments in the future.

    Assassin wasn't adjusted at all as it is the current target for where to balance the other dps paths too.

    Blademaster wasn't initially in this set of adjustments as it is the path closest to Assassin already. We will add in a few minor tweaks to Blademaster for next week:

    • Brash Strike - magnitude increased to 90
    • Frenzy - magnitude increased to 750 and base cooldown reduced to 18s
    • Battlerage - now increases damage done by 20%
    • Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    It is unlikely we will add additional balance changes before M18 launches, as we will be using that time for bug fixing and getting a solid stable build ready for launch. We will continue more balance changes in the future, especially once these ones have settled in and we have fresh data to make sure we're still tackling the biggest balance priorities first.
    What does this mean?

    Relentless Battlerage - now decreases Battlerage damage to 14%

    Nice try anyway but please buff encounters that we use.
    Only thing, I would change for Mighty Leap is to increase range from 40' to 50' and cooldown decrease.
    Brash Strike - please, can you change this scary fight animation? it is very slow, imprecise, useless..
  • dagambitdagambit Member Posts: 187 Arc User



    Whisperknife:

    • Impact Shot - magnitude increased to 400
    • Shadow Strike - magnitude increased to 375
    • Shuriken Toss - magnitude increased to 45
    • Vengeance Pursuit - base magnitude increased to 150, stealthed bonus magnitude increased to 550, but also fixed issues with multi-proccing when it shouldn't have been
    • Dagger Threat - maximum benefit is now 20' instead of 15'
    • Gutterborn's Touch - no longer increases awareness, now increases ranged damage by 5%
    • Blitz - stealthed usage no reduces encounter cooldowns by 2s
    Coming from a Rogue player; WK has some nice changes but it still not attractive to me throwing knives is "meh" at best. The Assassin path is middle of the road because the other Classes DPS path is under performing. The Rogue needs a few things to happen in IMO for the sake of class to the class as a whole. List below no particular order.

    We need an AOE at-will all our at-wills are single target. DF can hit multiple targets depending on positioning.
    Shadow of Demise needs to be on the Assassin path it is a melee feat not a ranged feat.
    Assassin needs feats that buff it's encounters the way other class do.
    WhisperKnife needs a ranged feats that actually benefit the play style.
    Shadow's Flurry should spawn on the opposite side of the enemy to give the player CA during the combo
    Execution is a useless feat that is not used and should redone
    Hastily Sharpened Blades would benefit more from 10 to 15% critical severity
    Skullcracker should daze all enemies when using smoke bomb
    Knife's Edge grants Assassinate and Lashing blade 10% more damage
    If you will not give SoD back to Assassin path then revamp Assassin's Target to apply a stack of targeted, stacks 10x after the 10 stacks they become "Targeted" and take "10% more damage from all sources"



    Warden:

    • Focused - now increases 2% per second to a maximum of 20%
    • To The Wind - now grants a 5% boost to Throw Caution
    • Skirmisher's Gambit - now reduces Critical Strike by 10,000 and increaes crit severity by 25%
    Asking players to give up 10K in a stat for a 5% nerf is insane, who at the meeting felt this was a good trade off? the 3K and 30% was ok, now we must give up 7% more to deal 5% less. Not a good look @noworries#8859.



    Dreadnought:

    • Cleave: Increase magnitude from 25 to 35
    • Brazen Slash: Increase magnitude from 55 to 75
    • Shield Bash: Increase magnitude from 20 to 30
    • Guarded Strike: Increase magnitude from 60 to 85
    • Heavy Slash: Increase magnitude from 100 to 135
    • Reave: Increase magnitude from 30 to 45
    • Commander's Strike: Increase magnitude from 400 to 560
    • Tremor: Increase magnitude from 250 to 340
    • Griffon's Wrath: Increase total magnitude from 840 to 1050
    • Onslaught: Increase magnitude from 300 to 420
    • Earthshaker: Increase magnitude from 580 to 800
    • Shockwave: Increase magnitude from 620 to 870
    • Momentum: Increase magnitude from +200 Bull Charge to +300
    • Heavier Slash: Increase magnitude from +200 Heavy Slash to +300
    • Prepared Slam: Increase magnitude from 200 to 280
    • Richochet: Increase damage output by reducing the damage reduction from 30%/60%/70% to 20%50%60%
    I just started playing a Fighter and these changes are good. I don't agree with a DPS path having to block to gain vengeance. If we are block then we are not DPSing. Yes we gain vengeance from attacking once 50% or more. But a DPS path should gain vengeance whenever they attack, and a Tank path should gain vengeance when they block. My does this class have Dailies that are weaker than encounters? If they are weaker in magnitude to an encounter can they really be called dailies?


    Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (PC)
    Rogue - Setsuna F Seiei (XB1)
    Rogue - Serenity (PS4)
  • asterix000asterix000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14 Arc User
    Hi everybody.
    @noworries#8859
    If you're in time, please reject the Brash strike increase. It's useless. For 2 reasons:
    1) brash strike is currently 0.8 times Relentless slash DPS (out of battlerage). The boost would bring it to 0.8*90/85= 0.84
    2) Brash strike is almost uneffected by battlerage speed up.

    1) + 2) = Brash strike is not and will not be an option.
    As proposed by Itsmithneko, put brash strike in the shared powers, put sure strike in the dps path, where it belongs, and buff it instead.

    Battleragedamage increase from 10 to 14% is indeed a big thing, but it also works on AOE, where Barbarian is already close to the top performance.

    Frenzy tweak would bring it from the current 36.27 to 41.6 magnitude per second. It's a good idea imo, because it goes in the direction of boosting single target damage.

    Thanks for reading this.





  • rafamarques#5700 rafamarques Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    1) + 2) = Brash strike is not and will not be an option.
    As proposed by Itsmithneko, put brash strike in the shared powers, put sure strike in the dps path, where it belongs, and buff it instead.


    agree IF the last hit become AOE. that, for sentinels, can be really, really interesting (no diference for bladmasters). Devs, we have a deal?
  • quasar#2578 quasar Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    hoping to renew ARCANISt CLASS FEATURE
    eye of the storm : granting 100% crit for x seconds. cooldown x second?
    how about a feat which grants increase %damage base on control bonus. max x% increase. sounds cool. because there are so many useless feats they have at least players have different choices of equipment build.

    for hunter ranger
    skirmish gambit increase crit severity for every 2000? crit strike exceeding target crit avoidance max %increase.
    Post edited by quasar#2578 on
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 588 Arc User
    After reading the thread, I feel after MOD 16, all that is happening is we keep being told to wait for changes to the barbarian. By the time the "changes" get made, the game will be going through another rework on the classes. This has been confirmed by saying that barb dps is above the average of the new "base-line" and now target of all classes, the assassin. No changes are coming in MOD 18. So wait until MOD 19. Reminds me of a apartment building owner and saying there's no use in fixing the building, because better materials will be on market in 1 year, so lets wait for that and do nothing. In the meantime, people move out of the apartment building. That's whats happening to the player base, they are moving out, because they are tired of hearing for the past 8 months that changes and balance will come. Now we're being told that barbs are above the intended target dps for all classes, so no changes for 4+ more months, if at all. Anyone starting a barb at this point, I'd tell them save your time and money on this class and stay away from it. You have had no intention of working on it for the past 8 months, or the next 4.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    1) Brash strike is really clunky, Relentless Slash is the only way to go even with these changes. Useless buff.
    2) Boost to Frenzy doesn't mean anything. Because of long cooldown, Bloodletter, IBS and Punishing Charge still has more DPS than Frenzy. So it still has no place in single target encounters. Also it has a clunky and long animation too, it doesn't target the enemy, so sometimes you don't even hit the enemy. Useless buff again.
    3) Instead of getting rid of the -5% damage part from the feat, you increase the base damage, which results in 4% damage increase. Just remove the minus part, and its good. Why does it have to have a negative effect? At this point I'm thinking of not selecting any boons on last column lol. Half of the feats are terrible and you are not even touching them...

    When are you going to listen to your players and their feedback ? After there is no people to play it ?
  • milehighxr#1299 milehighxr Member Posts: 429 Arc User

    ... i just have one important point: w/o Demon Lord's, that dps classes will have more defensive status/hp using lvl80 sets, that means... well, tanks in general are not too important, so think about improve our damage too. i can change my gwf back to bladmasters. but, you know... we already dont have much tanks outside.

    Just wow, that means my pally tank still gets to just "play dress up", as he contributes nothing to damage in any group content, and can't hardly hold aggro when in a group of players where all the dps, and the healer have 30% or more power than my pally. When LoMM was the new thing and I was built properly for it(and not spend $300.00 on a legendary mount with power bonus) most teams(especially in random groups) would have at least one person that was constantly complaining about me "not doing my job" when in fact I was spamming smite so much, along with oath strike. Yet I still couldn't hold aggro to save my bacon.

    @devs, please buff up the damaging powers, or threat generation of Paladin tanks. I have virtually given up playing my tank(except for rad farming) as he has nothing else to do.

  • reeper#9973 reeper Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    Frenzy outperforms Punishing Charge in single target fights by quite a lot. I have tested this as well as Viral and the proof is available on his discord channel. I welcome this buff, but would like more cooldown reduction. Both last feats has penalties, why a feat has to make a class weaker I don't understand. That does need to change.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Punishing Charge is there to proc Trample. If you have Swarm mount power, it enables your second part of the Trample even on bosses. So if you have a good Swarm debuff uptime, Trample outperforms Steel Blitz. Steel Blitz is about 6-8% of our damage usually. Trample is 5% all the time, and 15% on Swarm debuffs. For artifact calls in Tomm and dps checks like phase 2 or phase 4, this way Trample increases our burst damage by a lot. And if you have multiple Swarms, you can coordinate with your team and increase its uptime for more your selfish damage.

    Also Punishing Charge gives you utility, in some cases dashing is really useful. Frenzy locks you in ground for about 1-1.5 seconds, and since its not targeted, if your target teleports or runs away, it can miss. Punishing Charge also has instant cast time, so you can hit 2-3 more atwills compared to cast time of Frenzy, resulting in better DPS. Frenzy might be better on tests and dummies, but in fights like Tomm and new dungeons second or third boss where half of the ground needs to be dodged, Punishing Charge is more useful.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
  • reeper#9973 reeper Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    Good uptime on Swarm debuff? 10 seconds out of 60... Most bosses are control immune so the 2nd part of Trample doesn't not apply to them. Feel free to test your DPS vs my Barbarian inside TOMM.
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    As I said Swarm enables the second part of it, another thing that does is Courage Breaker from Rouges. But they have better dailies to use. If 4-5 dps all have swarms, you can have a good uptime, by not using at the same time, just like using t-rexes. But this is for selfish Barbarian dps when using Trample. And please stop with the childish dps race ideas. Im trying to talk with facts.
    Swarm was the reason Gwfs were switching to Iron Vanguard before m16, because it was enabling Trample agaisnt bosses. That Iron Vanguard build was more optimal for one phasing bosses.

    But this is not the correct place for this discussion, let's not move away from the main topic class balances here.
  • reeper#9973 reeper Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    Fact: Frenzy has more DPS than Punishing Charge.
  • necromanceheronecromancehero Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    giz#2086 said:

    Why not give the Tyrant Curse a debuff of 5% target damage for the all group. Similar to Barb.
    In ToMM, this would give CW weight

    Why not stop with that support thinking? A debuff is ok on SoulWeaver but as Hellbringer all i want to do is DAMAGE, not being the debuff/support slave for the new top DPS class like the old Templock trash. It's that hard to understand that if we are DPS we want to do damage? Or should Warlock stay as the impotent class of the game for ages meanwhile all other classes can have their mod of shining as DPS?
    Arcanist have debuff skills, Rogue have debuff skills.
    Are they bad damagers?

    Or is the fact that some DPS class can impose a buff/debuff, but another does not - is this normal?
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,080 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I just tested it shield appears to be giving closer to 15% of your hitpoints as temp or not properly calculation all your bonus Hitpoints correctly... in this state it is a dead spell for pve and pointless to slot in mastery as it does not give any additional "shieldyneess either" only explosive potential ..also you can no longer chose to control when you want to detonate it strategically any more to push at the right moment so effectively trolling your party due to having no control when it spontaneously scatters mobs due to destabilization

    also when cast again (after cooldown) it pulse gives no temp hitpoints and goes on buggy cooldown
    expected result: refreshing your temp hitpoint pool (regardless of depletion level ) and optionally pulsing rewarding you for not completely depleting the shield

    there is no risk reward or timed strategic counter play to be had with the new shield at all only even more cw bugs
    nor is there more temp hit points when its used on mastery .. or layers of shield absorption as it used to be

    also shield used to give some level of crowd control resistance not sure if that is applied or not yet
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    kalina311 said:

    I just tested it shield appears to be giving closer to 15% of your hitpoints as temp or not properly calculation all your bonus Hitpoints correctly... in this state it is a dead spell for pve and pointless to slot in mastery as it does not give any additional "shieldyneess either" only explosive potential ..also you can no longer chose to control when you want to detonate it strategically any more to push at the right moment so effectively trolling your party due to having no control when it spontaneously scatters mobs due to destabilization

    I do wonder if they will come back and give the same answer they gave to the Tanks .When they said when we pointed out our lose of hit points. That it was not supposed to be giving us that many hit points to being with. It does seem that they have taken issue with all the bonus Hitpoints we all currently get . But I do hope you will be given a better answer than the Tanks got.

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,080 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Perhaps shield on mastery as an alternative opposite use /vs not on tab . should grant more hitpoints / a shorter cooldown . or implode pulling/sucking mobs in when it breaks instead of pushing them away . so they stay in your aoe zone of damage/ dont troll the party /scatter mobs when you dont intend them to ..

    also keeping shield on normal foruse when you do want to push and scatter mobs ..and can detonate / break at your command
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • devilxjkdevilxjk Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    Fighter-
    griffon wrath need a faster animation
    Faster vengeance refill, if not i have to attack before than tank to take vengeance up, and moreover if i have to shield my self i cant di dps
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,080 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    gweddry said:

    CW shield has been very overpowered in PvP for a long time. Perhaps CW will no longer be the ranged tank dps burst class it is in m17, but will actually have to decide which path to go, as do most other classes.

    Thats fine and all however most of the server population is fledgling pve cws will not agree
    when they are just trying to survive with thier shield and do dailies and hard content on alts
    and will say it was nerfed cause of pvp .when there are like what 10 pvp cws?
    do you really think the\ devs adjuted shield for the sake of balancing 10 pvp cws lol ?
    perhaps the shield should have 2 different modes then pvp and pve mode
    so pvp is not blamed for every game nerf as usual ...
  • the1truehunterthe1truehunter Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 211 Arc User


    -Mighty Leap - decrease the casting time to 14s.

    Forgot to mention the increase of its Radius from 12' to at maybe 20'

  • anoreksjaanoreksja Member Posts: 113 Arc User


    -Mighty Leap - decrease the casting time to 14s.

    Forgot to mention the increase of its Radius from 12' to at maybe 20'

    You mean the first safe jump with a 12' radius and the second attack jump with a 20' radius? Really I don't know if that makes sense, I'd rather see an increase range Mighty Leap from 40' to 50/60'
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    @noworries#8859

    Sorry, can we be satisfied that the current changes are the only changes that cryptic will make for balancing, before mod 18?
  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    sobi#1980 said:

    @noworries#8859

    Sorry, can we be satisfied that the current changes are the only changes that cryptic will make for balancing, before mod 18?

    I hope not... Warden was nerfed and Hunter is still way from being viable (tested yesterday the whole evening).
    Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
    Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
  • darkzod#9528 darkzod Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    The orcus set is nerfed. :-( All other sets are trimmed to daily, which is not good for a warlock. The action points building is unfortunately absolutely miserable. How about consuming half the AP or building a buff for AP faster?

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