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M18 Class Balance Adjustments

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  • djnasty93djnasty93 Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    Hunter:

    Disruptive Shot - magnitude increaed to 300
    More than Disruptive - now increases your ranged damage by 10% for 5 sec
    Slasher's Expertise - now increases your melee damage by 10% for 10 sec
    Longstrider's Shot - magnitude increased to 525
    Gushing Wound - magnitude and DoT magnitude increased to 300
    Aspect of the Falcon - now grants a 10% damage bonus
    Thorned Roots - increased magnitude against control immune targets to 150
    Hawk Shot - magnitude increased to 210
    Prey (from Predator) - now increases ranged damage by 10%
    Biting Snare - can now occur every 15 seconds instead of 20

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Are really good changes to Dmg, every buff its focused only on dmg, its really cool to see =) good job Devs
    You focus on right powers and right feats for hunter, im not logged in on preview yet, first impression its good, not something super, i love long strider/gushing wound buff =)

    buuut think more on Aoe of HUNTER, dots arent a viable way for Aoe if you can hunt well =)

    split strike on hunter its hard to use (you use it only in melee version, cause its Aoe) but its the best way to optimize hunter on a ao situation, i prefere rapid strike but if this skill will be alot more powerful in Aoe will be bis, hunter teamwork as bow at will and split strike as melee at will, tricky but cool to use =)
  • djnasty93djnasty93 Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    Ranger Healer? ^^
    He heal soooo little xD
  • reeper#9973 reeper Member Posts: 123 Arc User
    Increasing Sure Strike's magnitude by 20 wouldn't be nearly enough since At-wills are only about 20% of our damage on single target. We need a major increase to Sure Strike so that it can not only be better than Relentless Slash, but actually an increase in our overall Single Target damage. At the moment Relentless Slash is up to 50% better than Sure Strike on Single Target because of all the stuff the Avatar "Secondary hit" can proc.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I really appreciate the Arbiter getting some attention. It is my favourite class/paragon and being effectively shunned for much of the content is somewhat demotivating to say the least.

    My concern regarding the Arbiter is that the effects of this will vary a lot, depending on builds.
    • Focused Light - good/necessary fix, but my build does not use it, which makes it somewhat irrelevant.
    • Perfect Balance - Same here,a really nice improvement for "balance" builds, but if you have something like a typical "fire pip" build, this is irrelevant.
    • Angel of Death - OK, this is welcome in longer fights, so, a nice one here.
    • Lance of Faith - a magnitude change from 80 to 85 is welcome, but at-wills are not a significant source of damage for Arbiters, so the total effect of this is limited.
    • Sacred Flame - same here, although in my case this is irrelevant as my build does not use this power.
    So, what do I get ... maybe a 1-2% DPS increase - well, it's a step in the right direction, but the cold hard fact is that while a top-notch Arbiter (you know, the ones who actually get invited into ToMM) may be almost equals to some of the "real" DPS classes, a typical Arbiter is probably like 15-20% behind an equally geared and skilled Arcanist or Assassin in extended single-target combat, which is really the only area where DPS matters.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I really appreciate the Arbiter getting some attention. It is my favourite class/paragon and being effectively shunned for much of the content is somewhat demotivating to say the least.

    My concern regarding the Arbiter is that the effects of this will vary a lot, depending on builds.

    • Focused Light - good/necessary fix, but my build does not use it, which makes it somewhat irrelevant.
    • Perfect Balance - Same here,a really nice improvement for "balance" builds, but if you have something like a typical "fire pip" build, this is irrelevant.
    • Angel of Death - OK, this is welcome in longer fights, so, a nice one here.
    • Lance of Faith - a magnitude change from 80 to 85 is welcome, but at-wills are not a significant source of damage for Arbiters, so the total effect of this is limited.
    • Sacred Flame - same here, although in my case this is irrelevant as my build does not use this power.
    So, what do I get ... maybe a 1-2% DPS increase - well, it's a step in the right direction, but the cold hard fact is that while a top-notch Arbiter (you know, the ones who actually get invited into ToMM) may be almost equals to some of the "real" DPS classes, a typical Arbiter is probably like 15-20% behind an equally geared and skilled Arcanist or Assassin in extended single-target combat, which is really the only area where DPS matters.
    Yep, so no matter what build you go, the change to arbiter is 2-3% increase in damage, but it's still welcome. I get invited to TOMM, and i am telling you, the top wiz's don't do 15% more dps, that's the utmost minimum. Right now its sitting comfortably at 30% more for me but i haven't yet mastered TOMM so that should at max lower to 20%. But at the same time, i haven't ran with a beast wizard, who does currently 50% more than me so i have my doubts. Since arcanist is nerfed by around 10% (estimate only), then we probably sit around 30-40% right now. Arbiter also being a much more difficult class means that the value would be higher on average. I am sure the dev's would see this during the statistics they gather.
  • b3nstoneb3nstone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 41 Arc User
    Are you serious?
    "Chilling Presence: now grants 0.5% damage per stack"
    This doesn't fix "Arcanist" it DESTROYS Thaumaturge.
  • chaostyleramicichaostyleramici Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Warlock need fix in creeping death, dots need stacks and buff in magnitude in daily tyrannical curse or other daily, need one daily above 1000 magnitude.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 685 Arc User

    While I completely understand that the Barbies are concerned, maybe we could try to hope that this was done quickly (and only because we asked) and maybe Barbie didn't just make it yet?

    I haven't had time to look at it ingame, but: Thank you for considering to work on the other paragons of double dps classes, too. Like Hunter, for example, even tho Combat Warden is working - I missed it a lot, and will definitly go to give Hunter Trapper another shot.

    Simply no. Many people, including myself, thought the same thing about the recent 30% black friday sale, thinking a weekend sale or flash sale would come, and nothing did. So NO, they do not get the benefit of the doubt that they just "forgot" to including barbarians. Its intentional and extremely disappointing. And someone made a point of saying 2020 will have a few mmo's coming, which is true, and if Cryptic truly pushes forward with no adjustments to barb a lot of people will go play those, myself included. No respect from devs.
    Fair enough. I wanted do post something positive for once, but I can see where you are coming from.
    I was (still am) excited because it concerned me, but even if it works, the new mod has to deliver for me, too, or I'm out, too. The only thing that keeps me here is the time already invested, but even that has an end.
    - bye bye -
  • matii#4660 matii Member Posts: 75 Arc User
    Arcanist already had low aoe dmg in comparison to other paragons and now you nerf not only single target, but also aoe
  • dillygirldillygirl Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    So everyone here is talking about how the Arcanist nerf is good and Thaum is still not relevant. What? AFAIK (single target) Arcanist sucks at everything and is even outperformed by AOE Thaum path even on bosses. I mean, Thaum is a little harder keeping your rimefire on enemies, sure, but Thaums literally outperform my (Arcanist) damage by a factor of 4 to 6 while on the same item level. As in I do 200k they do 1200k. Six times as much damage.

    Can anybody here explain this to me? After some comments it became clear you can't all be kidding. What abilities are you slotting, what item buffs do you use on Arcanist?

    As for the bugs in Wizards people are talking about, since nobody seems to specify them and I think it is relevant, here's the ones that I've noticed the most especially with Hell Pit and with the awful lag lately. I have not tested these on the new test server patch.

    - Steal Time sometimes randomly cancels and goes on 10s cooldown (about half to 2/3rds of regular cooldown). Sometimes due to lag, sometimes due to getting knocked up or slammed down by enemies. Sometimes for no apparent reason at all. A while ago Steal Time would deal damage on every hit. You could cancel it halfway through and do less damage but have lower cooldown. Now it only damages on the last tick. So when it randomly cancels and goes on cooldown, it hasn't done anything. But you can't use it again in the next 10 seconds anyways. Seems like something is left of this cancel cooldown code and is affecting the ability in unexpected ways.
    - Shard of Endless Avalanche can get cancelled in a similar way. With some enemies abilities, the rock simply vanishes. So I lay down my rock, walk around a bit, something attacks me or controls me and suddenly the rock is just gone (no explosion). That's weird right? I mean clearly the rock can be affected by aoe knockup powers and be knocked about, but it shouldn't disappear when I'm standing 10 ft away from it and something attacks ME.
    - Shard of Endless Avalanche, again. Since just around the start of Hell Pit, it doesn't always explode on the second target hit. I have had it go through masses of 5+ enemies and go straight through, knocking them over properly but not exploding. I think this has something to do with it ignoring either control immune enemies (it happens a lot when there are some of those horse riders from Hell Pit in the middle of the cluster) or enemies who are already being controlled.
    - Shard of Endless Avalanche, again again. Sometimes it randomly appears next to me instead of in front of me. This also happens while standing still. I actually think it has something to do with camera angles. VERY inconvenient since I then have to reposition to throw it at my enemies.
    - Shard of Endless Avalanche, part four. This ability is not marked as a ranged ability and does not benefit from any buffs that apply to ranged abilities. I am talking about the part where you throw the rock, not the explosion. Repel, which is VERY similar to the push part of the Shard ability, IS marked as ranged.
    - Entangling force only does a few ticks of damage, then holds the enemy while not doing any damage. I'm guessing this is working as intended because you didn't want the ability to deal more damage than stated if it goes on for longer, but it looks and feels VERY weird in game.
    - Pretty much all targeted abilities can be cast on dead enemies. Yes. Really. This has been happening since the Warlock rework. I imagine it is very nice for warlocks to be able to get an extra Dark Spiral Charge from a dying enemy, but for Arcanist it means losing a power for the duration of its cooldown. You can cast Disintegrate, or your third-strike Magic Missile or fourth-strike Arcane Bolt on an enemy that is already dead, and you just lose a lot of damage in your rotation. And no they don't do the disintegrate animation when this happens. But the ability goes on cooldown anyways (or you gotta start with strike one again, for the at-wills). You just lose the ability you were directly targeting on an enemy behind the one you just killed, but the game decides you intended to hit the already dead one anyways.
  • Change barbarian please, we need buff and more offense slot companions. Every barbarian player leave that game, this is not a happens!
  • rafamarques#5700 rafamarques Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    still no buffs to GREAT WEAPON FIGHTERS... since m16 you can call this game "SoyWinter Online"
  • sekosek#5740 sekosek Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    I think we deserve some barbarian balances, especially on feats in my opinion. In fact, I made a forum post where I give my feedback about it.
    If anyone is interested :

    Detailed Barbarian Feedback

    Feel free to leave a comment.
  • geekoxxiiigeekoxxiii Member Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited December 2019


    Hellbringer:

    • Eldritch Blast: Increase magnitude from 30 to 35
    • Dark Spiral Charge: Increase magnitude from 80 - 240 to 95 - 280
    • Hellish Rebuke: Increase magnitude from 40/10 DoT and 20 on counter to 45/10 DoT and 25 on counter
    • Hand of Blight: Increase magnitude from 35 melee/45 ranged to 40 melee/50 ranged
    • Arms of Hadar: Increase magnitude from 55 to 65
    • Vampiric Embrace: Increase magnitude from 250 to 275
    • Blades of Vanquished Armies: Increase magnitude from 20 to 25
    • Hadar's Grasp: Increase magnitude from 200 to 230
    • Fiery Bolt: Increase magnitude from 175 to 200
    • Dreadtheft: Increase magnitude from 340 to 395
    • Hellfire Ring: Increase magnitude from 120/200 DoT to 135/220 DoT
    • Gates of Hell: Increase magnitude from 750 to 865
    • Curse: Increase magnitude from 10 to 12
    • Parting Blasphemy: Increase magnitude from 75 to 85
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Green: These change help a bit, thanks... but
    Red: these changes are useless. currently in the live server these powers are underperforming and are avoided by everyone, and these changes will not change that because are too small.
    Orange: really? these changes are ridiculously small. currently nobody use this power/mechanic for their damages, and so even in the new module if these changes remains in the current status.

    Overall: warlocks will still sucks in mod18 because 70% of these changes are useless.
    Post edited by geekoxxiii on
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    @noworries#8859 Just tested the arbiter dps, it is around 3- 5% increase for perfect balance path. It feels as if you are ignoring the stats because we were the bottom of the list. That increase won't even be noticeable because arbiter will remain difficult as it is. The 3-5% was from me who can rotate really fast with perfect balance and make use of the increase %dmg but the majority of arbiters would feel little to no change. I had one suggestion in mind and please consider it because it will not change the class but make it more or less easier for others.

    Prophet of doom + daily now can proc sudden verdict and stack perfect balance. Please let me know if this change seems excessive because it adds no damage whatsoever just ease of gameplay.

    Lastly, the perfect way to help barbs in my opinion is to give them 3 offensive slots. That will add so much power and %dmg from batiri that they'll see significant improvement automatically. If this is your plan for future then say so because i am not a barb main and i feel for them.
    Post edited by sobi#1980 on
  • commanderdata002commanderdata002 Member Posts: 312 Arc User

    @noworries Thank you for nerfing me before the start of a harder MOD where I can still not AoE but I can not single target also.
    Great thinking .

    They said Wiz should be balanced for less single target and more aoe.
    It seems they missed the last half of the memo...

    stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    .
    Post edited by sobi#1980 on
  • ltsmithnekoltsmithneko Member Posts: 1,578 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Current state of Deeps Barb is this:
    At-wills use Relentless Slash nothing else since its always been a good power and its our AoE at-will, plus to keep the dmg buff going which it's timer is fine to get use of another at-will/rotation but currently no other at-will is worth due to their states.

    Sure Strike doesn't hit hard enough (probably switch it's position with Brash Strike if you don't want the tank spec to have a powerful SS if thats a concern)

    No reason to use Bounding Slam as a dps Barb in PvE which is fine, no change needed there.

    Brash Strike is clunky n' slow and overall not very fluent of a animation since it's just a clutter mixed into one.

    This one's a lil' personal perspective Not so fast, due to its low damage outright its not a good AoE power specially since its feat is chance based causes this power to be tossed to the side.

    Mightier leap that is a useful feat, helps a power that most would've never used, increases it's damage and goes hand n' hand with relentless slash to mostly cover AoE if it crits. Then having bloodletter n' IBS to clean up elite mobs. Only thing I'd like improved with it is a very slight increase to its radius effect due to enemy AI some of them tend not to group up well and they'll stand around for a few seconds before moving so using it as a opener can be hit or miss at times atm.

    Now on to Bloodletter/Bloodspiller it's fine no change really needed there.

    Though as for IBS/Indomitable Rage actually having its max magnitude to be higher than Bloodletter would make this feat a actual option currently would just equal the same magnitude of Bloodletter with feat which gives a player a clear choice on which to take which obviously not this one.

    Punishing Charge is fine, could be a bit better.

    Hidden Daggers/Roar/Battle Fury/Axestorm all need either magnitude increase or buff timers adjusted/cooldown timers adjusted. Since these are all powers unlocked by Blademaster yet we don't use any of them. The only one we use granted by Blademaster is Frenzy for its magnitude, even though its a bit of a clunky power.

    Spinning Strike would need to last for quite a bit or a magnitude increase for it to compete with Avalanche of Steel, personally its feat isn't very appealing at all prefer to see it replaced entirely.

    Savage Advance is fine.

    Crescendo takes so long to cast, it can be canceled by enemies so easily(and the throwing animation effect from using a journal after x seconds cancel it) along with it being a multi hit attack instead of a single hit attack puts it on the back burner for useful dailys.

    Avalanche is kinda a god tier AoE daily being able to clear massive groups of mobs with its feat just helping it along, but probably should be on the power by default n' that feat should be freed up to help another power/powers.

    Adamantine Strike takes awhile to cast, effect range is rather small making it a fairly poor choice for AoE. Only redeeming factor is the dmg taken effect, but isn't enough to justify using it over Savage Advance.


    Raging Strikes would have to be a higher maximum dmg increase threshold than 5% it can't compare to Barbed/Steel/Trample.

    Relentless Battlerage the better of the two feats, I don't mind it's con.

    Escalating Rage the incapacitated effect just doesn't work well no player would enjoy being forced stunned just leads to them being frustrated if this was the preferred feat.

    Overall Current DPS Barbs power use
    At-will - Relentless Strike
    Encounter - Bloodletter, IBS, Mighty Leap (AoE), Frenzy (ST)
    Daily - Savage Advance (ST), Avalanche of Steel (AoE
    Class Feature - Steel Blitz, Barbed Strikes,
    Feat - Mightier Leap, Bloodspiller, Overpenetration(Fine for PvE), Steel Slam, Relentless Battlerage

    Were fine in the AoE department even if we only use one AoE encounter. It's just the ST portion of the class that is lacking.
    : P


    Post edited by ltsmithneko on
  • bifflincultebifflinculte Member Posts: 183 Arc User
    tenetomb said:

    However, thaumaturge still doesn't convince me at all. To make it relevant again, you'd better begin by making Directed Flames deal 75% of smolder damage, instead of 50%...

    And allow it to proc on multiple targets again. I don't even know if this was intended as we didn't had any communication but anyway, it was a too big nerf.

    Directed Flames makes Smolder deal 50% of total damage (bug), but Rimefire Smolder deals the intended 75%. Since wizard always use cold spells, this isn't a big issue. But you're right, the addition of smolder on multiple targets is a complete mess. As far as I know, none of the other paragons has its main mechanics broken.

  • joe7777joe7777 Member Posts: 509 Arc User
    Now that I'm actually looking and comparing Wk changes to current I notice a typo on Gutterborn: It's Accuracy, not Awareness lol
  • catatinhascatatinhas Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    We Warlock need some fix with creeping death, the DOT damage need stacks and some magnitude in encounter/Daily, we are a Dps class and have less damage than a dps class =( please fix it =(
  • bullet0black#2545 bullet0black Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    dreadought need more increase in has persentage mechanics to full venga or recharge & has magnitude need to improve be cause he is too weak and most of has attackes are singl target but there isnt damage when attack on singl target of other class
  • thursdayxo#8621 thursdayxo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    So no boost for assasin? Even when none feat give resistance or damage at all? And the dc became op with highest magnitude powers senconded by gf still get boosted...
  • xavior44xavior44 Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    These changes are very welcome, and in most cases a step in the right direction, thank-you @noworries#8859 . I like how u focused just on magnitudes and hopefully leaving class mechanics until the big rework
  • rafamarques#5700 rafamarques Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    ... i just have one important point: w/o Demon Lord's, that dps classes will have more defensive status/hp using lvl80 sets, that means... well, tanks in general are not too important, so think about improve our damage too. i can change my gwf back to bladmasters. but, you know... we already dont have much tanks outside.
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