tomm and player flexibility
mcfob
Member Posts: 76 Arc User
Are there any plans to make adjustments to classes that have a dps role to make all classes that have a dps role on a even playing field? Quite frankly, it would be great if Barbarian, Fighter and SW could get a boost so that they could play dps roles in tomm. We need the flexibility to bring back these classes as viable tomm dps'ers, soooooo many people previously had a toon for each of the three party types (heal/tank/dps--also buff but buff is no longer available), so when getting runs together one player had the flexibility to switch toons. Now, due to the complete revamping, there are huge investments that have to be made to switch party type, and people just can't afford to do it, so they just quit playing a toon that was made sub par.
For example, I used to have a dps GWF and GF, both are not viable in tomm now. So, I am limited to playing only my op in tomm. Sure, I could invest millions of ad and get my Barbarian or Fighter decent enough to tank tomm, but my op can already tank. Or I could invest even more millions of ad to get one of my alt TR/HR/CW up to tomm standards. Most people cannot afford to spend the resources, they they just quit playing defunct toons or delegate them to grinding easy content. Some people just quit playing neverwinter altogether. This channels players into just one character for tomm, which makes getting the right party mix to have a chance much more difficult. And the worst thing is, it is all due to someone at Cryptic deciding that 3 classes were going to be the top dps'ers, and up until the release of tomm, I could live with this, even though I didn't like it much, but with tomm out there I really think there needs to be a change put into place. A lot more flexiblity would fall into place when organizing tomm parties if barbie/fighter/warlock dps'ers were on a par with the others.
I am not saying tomm needs to be easier, it is great the way it is, but we need the flexibility back amongst the players, specially since so many old friends have quit playing neverwinter after the massive changes of mod 16.
I am sure there a few players out there that have enough high dpsing friends that they can get an invite for their fighter or barbie or warlock to tag along on a tomm run, but anyone getting a group together would not want those classes, before you start posting 'my barbie can dps tomm' posts.
But maybe I am the only one who wants the flexibility back, I do not know.
Anyway, just my opinion, thanks for your consideration,
-Bubb
For example, I used to have a dps GWF and GF, both are not viable in tomm now. So, I am limited to playing only my op in tomm. Sure, I could invest millions of ad and get my Barbarian or Fighter decent enough to tank tomm, but my op can already tank. Or I could invest even more millions of ad to get one of my alt TR/HR/CW up to tomm standards. Most people cannot afford to spend the resources, they they just quit playing defunct toons or delegate them to grinding easy content. Some people just quit playing neverwinter altogether. This channels players into just one character for tomm, which makes getting the right party mix to have a chance much more difficult. And the worst thing is, it is all due to someone at Cryptic deciding that 3 classes were going to be the top dps'ers, and up until the release of tomm, I could live with this, even though I didn't like it much, but with tomm out there I really think there needs to be a change put into place. A lot more flexiblity would fall into place when organizing tomm parties if barbie/fighter/warlock dps'ers were on a par with the others.
I am not saying tomm needs to be easier, it is great the way it is, but we need the flexibility back amongst the players, specially since so many old friends have quit playing neverwinter after the massive changes of mod 16.
I am sure there a few players out there that have enough high dpsing friends that they can get an invite for their fighter or barbie or warlock to tag along on a tomm run, but anyone getting a group together would not want those classes, before you start posting 'my barbie can dps tomm' posts.
But maybe I am the only one who wants the flexibility back, I do not know.
Anyway, just my opinion, thanks for your consideration,
-Bubb
8
Comments
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One of the greatest obstacles that prevent more players to do ToMM, players that have all the requeriments to do their role (tank/healing/DPS), is the player's language/countrty. Note that I'm not complaining about the game language.
Well, Neverwinter is a global game with a single global server (Dragon), so, at least 30% or 40% of all players are non-english-talking players like Brazilians, Argentines, Chileans, Mexicans, French, Italians and etc. I'm sure that a good portion of then, never entered in ToMM, not even to practice for lack of opportunities.
Many players that already finished ToMM are players from close/restrict groups that have their own specific Discord channels or chat channels, and a very few of then don't allow people that don't understand english to participate. So, for many of then, including me, ToMM is a skipable content.
Maybe in 1 or 2 years i'll practice and try it.
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@mcfob agreed 100%, same problem here, no fotm class active and only very small incentive to spend AD Zen into CW/TR/Hunter from zero to BIS, actually this is the first time I even stopped renewing VIP... a bit on the jump like many player.
I did several runs with my Oathkeeper allready and the reason why my and maybe other groups fail in tomm is not the lack of communication, not the lack of tanks or healer, but the lack of dps with adaequat gear etc.
If you look up for tomm you find CW, CW, CW, Hunter, TR, TR etc. Many player who did run Fighter(ex GF), GWF or Hellbringer left game or swapped stuff over to another class. In my case I have all that dps gear on my warlock but I build up an Oathkeeper with all needed stats.
If only this company would spend some efforts into Barbie, Warlock, DC and Fighter to make those classes shine in endcontent as dps, there would be a far better outcome, but actually devs do think it is from lower priority or simply they don't care.
If I look up for guilds I see a very, very small ammount of verterans and capable player, tons of them left this game, not due to missing skill, but due to the fact that you need near pefect conditions to build raid and beat tomm, too much effforts for most of them. In most guilds you even don't see more than 1-3 player actively playing this game (europena time zone). My last guild is literally dead, having all boons at max since long, all player left. Same issue on the alliance guilds, noone there.
I see tons of newbies name them "casual funplayer" (guildless and gearless) and newer player who try to beat content missing either gear, knowledge etc. The game is fun leveling, gearing up and running low content is pretty much a nice way to spend time in NWO, endgame is not happening for 95%+, those player leave, being bored to the bone.
Company stays silent, no actual attempts to correct their mistakes concerning classbalance. They pretend as if this is from no impact and go baby-steps to adjust things, in case of warlock they even stepped back in the wrong direction lately, doing many changes with the result that the class is even worse than before - I have to admit that I am not suprised about it (maybe missing "menpower", maybe missing quality, maybe both)
Even if they do adjust classes in terms of dps TODAY, it takes it's time to gear up and farm that stuff on former dps builds, where you find exclusively CW, TR , Hunter in this game running correct dps builds for endcontent, the rest of player shelved their dps since there is no need to even try. Thinking about those tons of GWF up to mod 16 who vanished from the screen and left or simply don't care any more. We really could need some significant changes..and we need it now, not in 2 years !!!!!!Post edited by schietindebux on11 -
Well endgame maxed warlock is a joke, had to spend well over 30mil and move enchants over on a new cw to complete tomm. I love the challenge of tomm, but honestly making a warlock do 40% less damage than a cw in tomm isn't what I had in mind with near identical stats with bis comps and gear.
Warlock is still not viable as dps at max endgame. Only way it will be possible at this time is as a hard carry. Maybey after a group has new artifact, new weapons and new rings will they compensate enough to hard carry a warlock.
But let's be real about it, in almost 8 months from preview till now, the only thing they have finally accomplished is make soulweaver viable and made dps even worse than than before.
Gg cryptic, that's one way to force more healers into groups, if they take the bait. At this point don't hold your breath that they will fix it by years end, let alone the next few mods. Dps warlocks are about as usefull as dps pallys. But hey, dps warlocks can top paingiver chart, being better than bad players in lower content.Post edited by mongol69 on5 -
I look the TOMM instances everyday several times a day. More than 95% of the dps slots are taken by CW (most of them), HR and TR. Yep, dual-roles GF/SW/DC/GWF almost don't exist in TOMM with their dps path. I don't think Cryptic cares to watch this kind of stats though, or care enough to address the situation.6
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Cryptic should already have the means to check how many times ToMM has been completed by each dps class. Without us having access to that data and without even making a difference between if a player has beat the trial multiple times on that character or just once, I would bet good money that wizards are likely be the most presented class followed by rangers.
Even rogues can have hard time finding a group because, despite the fact that they can do well, so many group leaders will first comb through their friend list for wizards, then rangers, and then finally maybe a rogue...
This leaves everyone else at a third tier where they can be invited for 'training runs' or maybe one or two of them are let in for the real deal when all other options have been exhausted. And yes, maybe it is possible to beat the dungeon with nothing but undesired classes and without any of them having the Lionheart set, but really... How many groups are willing to put in that much effort and deal with the uncertainty unless everyone's on their alts and just extremely bored? It seems better to just stack up on wizards and rangers and collect the easy loot.
And even if someone will soon rush in with a screenshot of a full party of undesired classes having finished ToMM and say, "see, guys, it can be done! l2p!", that makes absolutely no difference. This thread is not about if it can or can't be done: It's a question of how much smoother and easier a meta comp run is compared to that of a rainbow group, and how much harder it is for non-wizards and non-rangers to get into groups, especially if they don't already have the Lionheart set in their pocket.Post edited by meirami on6 -
The silence and lack of response from the staff is what makes me most indignant. In the meantime all I can do is get into the game to do REDQ and RTQ and pretend that the game is still one that made me have fun and waste time with friends.8 -
Does this all know what's funnier ??
I talked to one of the GM, I will not speak the name, but he told me that the Sw DPS is very good for tomm and will not mess with him joke right !!!
At the most I can stay at 5º if I have an hr or a tr, if I have only CW I will be 30 to 60% below.
Developers I've been playing with Sw since the release in mod 5, if you guys find Sw viable for tomm please teach me pls.
Surely they have statistics and I bet 80% who complete are CW, the 20 are OP hel and tank, DC heal, GF TANK, Gwf Tank and SW heal / dps.
Tomm's difficulty is excellent, don't mess with it, just fix our dps please!
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The mechanics and logs speak for themselves. The only way anyone can say a warlock does fine in tomm is only as a tank healbot. Dps is completely nonviable.
As I said before the agenda to force every dps warlock to completely rebuild into a healer or be nonviable at endgame was accomplishd by devs.
They cloned the class mechanics off soulbinder damnation, which was always subpar to any endgame fury build. It doesnt take a genius to know that all of the problems from that paragon would be amplified and perform even worse in mod 16+.
It was designed to fail, or the devs completly do not have a clue about the class they designed.3 -
This is somehow symbolic for the fact that devs or the ones who are giving feedback live on another planet and are not at all in touch with their own game.martins#2911 said:Does this all know what's funnier ??
I talked to one of the GM, I will not speak the name, but he told me that the Sw DPS is very good for tomm and will not mess with him joke right !!!
The only groups who run rainbow-setups inside tomm are trainee- runs, far away from absolving the trial. Aside that you find 100% CW/Tr/Hunter and there is literally noone asking for any other class than those three ones for dps.
If those responsible guys think that classbalance is in a good spot I can't see any reason to even level anything else than those 3 classes as dps. Maybe rename dps path from DC, Fighter, Barby and SW into something else.
This all can't be considered as a mistake, it is on purpose, there is no other explanation imo. Their internal decisions obviously differ significant from the official ones.4 -
@schietindebux I totally agree!
Sw dps is on purpose for her is very good!
Sw heal they managed to make it work very well because they don't do with DPS ??? Simply because they don't want to.
If they wanted Sw dps / gf dps / dc dps and / gwf they would, they simply do it all on purpose for you to assemble another character, to keep the market active. Many migrate to other classes, but most of them lose players because many like to play with their favorite class!
If the game is like this because they want it, the Comps buggy the dps classes that do no damage, because if there is something that benefits you will soon be nerfed as the Sw bug, the same week they fixed it. They just get what they want, which will be good for them.2 -
Now,
Barbies are just Barbie dolls. Need a little more damage.
DPS Fighters are fighting for what ? To beat Warlock's DPS ? So I think they are more for Peacemakers than Fighters kkk. At least, Tank Fighters are excellent !
30% damage for these 2 classes (in their DPS role) is fine.
And about the Warlocks ... Just increase all their damage in 50% and done !
Test it on preview before mod.18 goes live (mod.18 is on Owlbear server atm) and wait for player's feedback. Many ppl will test the changes with ACT, comparing to the meta DPS, and i' sure that a good feedback will come.0 -
What flexibility? They are making a game with useless specs for ToMM (Hellbringer, Arbiter, Dreadnought are useless there) They want to make DPS paths from two roles classes useless there because they want Fighter to tank, Cleric and warlock to heal only. I'm sick of the PURE DPS meta and how the community laughs when an Arbiter or any other non-Pure DPS class want to join a ToMM run. Devs are the best trolls in this game. They gave us a DPS path to be almost like an "eunuch" DPS for end game. Forced to be support. And no thanks i prefer to stay out of the game before playing a role that i don't want to play and i never asked for, and i think lots of Barbarians, Warlocks, etc agree with it. They DON'T want to fix it, because the current game state is what they want, some classes for DPS, some classes for support only.2
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You accurately describe the desire of the Developers, they just don't want to. Mod 16 brought the class balance they wanted: 3 Tank classes (GF, OP and GWF), 3 Healer classes (OP, DC and SW) and 3 DPS classes (CW, TR and HR). I think they lacked the courage to specify this for community. In fact, what they did was to deceive the community that the DPS class balance would be within a difference of no more than 5% damage.giz#2086 said:What flexibility? They are making a game with useless specs for ToMM (Hellbringer, Arbiter, Dreadnought are useless there) They want to make DPS paths from two roles classes useless there because they want Fighter to tank, Cleric and warlock to heal only. I'm sick of the PURE DPS meta and how the community laughs when an Arbiter or any other non-Pure DPS class want to join a ToMM run. Devs are the best trolls in this game. They gave us a DPS path to be almost like an "eunuch" DPS for end game. Forced to be support. And no thanks i prefer to stay out of the game before playing a role that i don't want to play and i never asked for, and i think lots of Barbarians, Warlocks, etc agree with it. They DON'T want to fix it, because the current game state is what they want, some classes for DPS, some classes for support only.
Now imagine the DC that was buff, which became DPS on Mod 16 having to invest in everything again because it finds out that its DPS class is not capable of holding the final game content and will have to be a Healer. The same would fit for SW GWF and GF. We all took the bait, some (perhaps smarter) came out of the game, and we, the ones left, are under the illusion that one day our classes will once again compete on DPS again.
Some players on my buddy list switched their dps GF, GWF, SW to tank or healer to do ToMM, or focused on an alt of a Pure dps class. endings have to start practically from scratch.4 -
> @admiralwarlord#3792 said:
> (Quote)
> You accurately describe the desire of the Developers, they just don't want to. Mod 16 brought the class balance they wanted: 3 Tank classes (GF, OP and GWF), 3 Healer classes (OP, DC and SW) and 3 DPS classes (CW, TR and HR). I think they lacked the courage to specify this for community. In fact, what they did was to deceive the community that the DPS class balance would be within a difference of no more than 5% damage.
>
> Now imagine the DC that was buff, which became DPS on Mod 16 having to invest in everything again because it finds out that its DPS class is not capable of holding the final game content and will have to be a Healer. The same would fit for SW GWF and GF. We all took the bait, some (perhaps smarter) came out of the game, and we, the ones left, are under the illusion that one day our classes will once again compete on DPS again.
>
> Some players on my buddy list switched their dps GF, GWF, SW to tank or healer to do ToMM, or focused on an alt of a Pure dps class. endings have to start practically from scratch.
Yep. I saw the writing on the wall back in Mod 15 when the NDA-leaks began (whomever did that is a god d*mn hero to the playerbase - thank you!), and it became clear that combat would become much weaker, and much slower.
The moment it was confirmed that critical strike would be capped at 50%, that was when I said my goodbyes to the guild I was in, abandoned 13 characters (including a near-bis GWF, and a DC approaching that with an OP at mid-tier range). All three mains were nerfed into oblivion, and uninstalled the game. That was back in February. I've seen nothing to entice me to return.1 -
I do not agree with everything that has been said here, but I do agree with the fact some some classes needs help on the DPS side. I run TOMM on 4 different toons, sadly not my main which is a Barbie Doll. We do need some more single target damage, we are using our AOE at will for single target since Sure Strike is terrible... Come on !0
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Did rogues suffer from a recent nerf? I thought they were most reliable dps class after wiz in tomm.schietindebux said:@mcfob agreed 100%, same problem here, no fotm class active and only very small incentive to spend AD Zen into CW/TR/Hunter from zero to BIS, actually this is the first time I even stopped renewing VIP... a bit on the jump like many player.
I did several runs with my Oathkeeper allready and the reason why my and maybe other groups fail in tomm is not the lack of communication, not the lack of tanks or healer, but the lack of dps with adaequat gear etc.
If you look up for tomm you find CW, CW, CW, Hunter, TR, TR etc. Many player who did run Fighter(ex GF), GWF or Hellbringer left game or swapped stuff over to another class. In my case I have all that dps gear on my warlock but I build up an Oathkeeper with all needed stats.
If only this company would spend some efforts into Barbie, Warlock, DC and Fighter to make those classes shine in endcontent as dps, there would be a far better outcome, but actually devs do think it is from lower priority or simply they don't care.
If I look up for guilds I see a very, very small ammount of verterans and capable player, tons of them left this game, not due to missing skill, but due to the fact that you need near pefect conditions to build raid and beat tomm, too much effforts for most of them. In most guilds you even don't see more than 1-3 player actively playing this game (europena time zone). My last guild is literally dead, having all boons at max since long, all player left. Same issue on the alliance guilds, noone there.
I see tons of newbies name them "casual funplayer" (guildless and gearless) and newer player who try to beat content missing either gear, knowledge etc. The game is fun leveling, gearing up and running low content is pretty much a nice way to spend time in NWO, endgame is not happening for 95%+, those player leave, being bored to the bone.
Company stays silent, no actual attempts to correct their mistakes concerning classbalance. They pretend as if this is from no impact and go baby-steps to adjust things, in case of warlock they even stepped back in the wrong direction lately, doing many changes with the result that the class is even worse than before - I have to admit that I am not suprised about it (maybe missing "menpower", maybe missing quality, maybe both)
Even if they do adjust classes in terms of dps TODAY, it takes it's time to gear up and farm that stuff on former dps builds, where you find exclusively CW, TR , Hunter in this game running correct dps builds for endcontent, the rest of player shelved their dps since there is no need to even try. Thinking about those tons of GWF up to mod 16 who vanished from the screen and left or simply don't care any more. We really could need some significant changes..and we need it now, not in 2 years !!!!!!0
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