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Aftermath of Changes

mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
I have had some guildies telling me straight they are quiting the game due to TOMM's failure and latest changes.

I get hammerd with questions like the following and cannot answer them. I am not posting this here to rage. I believe the dev's are just getting feedback from a small minority of the player base(ironically the ones that play that "other game" ) and they react to that instead of listening to a more diverse player base.
  • Why are they increasing the divide to BIS and normal player
  • Why are they removing lomm from req does this mean i will never get to play LOMM and TOMM
  • Why are players with maxed stats being made stronger and normal players nerfed
  • So now i will never get the halestar artifact or trobrian's ring (gave this person a free ring)
There are many more questions like this. It seems to normal players that they are being picked and discriminated against in favour of the elite bis players.

I have nothing against BIS players but having a BIS only mod and then nerfing NON bis players just proves the point. I love rainer but his recent upload looks like a brag to players that will now never be able to run TOMM. Please save this game in mod 18. With a more than 47% player base drop year to year we cannot afford to not care about the majority of the player base in favor of the minority
There are more than BIS players in this game
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



Comments

  • some1stolemynicknamesome1stolemynickname Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    How does removing LoMM from REQ even effect ToMM at all? You do know people still run LoMM too right?

    I'd agree that the new queue system is a bit whacked, but you don't have much for valid points.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    1 - you can still q for LoMM ToMM ... you just won't get the extra ad from it.
    2 - these random q's i assume that they were made for the new players, they removed the hardest stuff from it and left the rest to make it easier for them.
    3 - i think its kinda faster now to make ad, or at least for me it took me 40 mins to make 120/130k ad
    4 - there should always be a gap between new/normal players and bis players or else what would be the point of upgrading your toon?
    5 - you can still get most of the artifacts from campaign store, auction house (prices have been dropping in case you haven't noticed) or zox
    6 - and i'm pretty sure almost every class aside is doing the same or more dmg than they used to, so i don't know were that ''nerfing norrmal players come from'' (EDIT: unless you mean vorpal nerf, but that is for everyone that took the time upgrading its not just for normal players)
  • some1stolemynicknamesome1stolemynickname Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    rev#7881 said:

    1 - you can still q for LoMM ToMM ... you just won't get the extra ad from it.
    2 - these random q's i assume that they were made for the new players, they removed the hardest stuff from it and left the rest to make it easier for them.
    3 - i think its kinda faster now to make ad, or at least for me it took me 40 mins to make 120/130k ad
    4 - there should always be a gap between new/normal players and bis players or else what would be the point of upgrading your toon?
    5 - you can still get most of the artifacts from campaign store, auction house (prices have been dropping in case you haven't noticed) or zox
    6 - and i'm pretty sure almost every class aside is doing the same or more dmg than they used to, so i don't know were that ''nerfing norrmal players come from'' (EDIT: unless you mean vorpal nerf, but that is for everyone that took the time upgrading its not just for normal players)


    I agree with most of that. The problem I see now are the ones in the slot RAQ once was. ToNG can be a pain if you pug someone with low DPS, and now they can be REALLY low.

    Also, on the "nerf" on Vorpal enchantments really wasn't a nerf at all given the changes to the crit sev + CA multipliers now; even the players at the top should be doing more damage. :)
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited October 2019

    How does removing LoMM from REQ even effect ToMM at all? You do know people still run LoMM too right?

    I'd agree that the new queue system is a bit whacked, but you don't have much for valid points.

    Many lower level player relied on req to get into endgame content. So by removing it they will never be able to do that content since everyone will just "XP only" and step on non bis players

    rev#7881 said:

    1 - you can still q for LoMM ToMM ... you just won't get the extra ad from it.
    2 - these random q's i assume that they were made for the new players, they removed the hardest stuff from it and left the rest to make it easier for them.
    3 - i think its kinda faster now to make ad, or at least for me it took me 40 mins to make 120/130k ad
    4 - there should always be a gap between new/normal players and bis players or else what would be the point of upgrading your toon?
    5 - you can still get most of the artifacts from campaign store, auction house (prices have been dropping in case you haven't noticed) or zox
    6 - and i'm pretty sure almost every class aside is doing the same or more dmg than they used to, so i don't know were that ''nerfing norrmal players come from'' (EDIT: unless you mean vorpal nerf, but that is for everyone that took the time upgrading its not just for normal players)


    I agree with most of that. The problem I see now are the ones in the slot RAQ once was. ToNG can be a pain if you pug someone with low DPS, and now they can be REALLY low.

    Also, on the "nerf" on Vorpal enchantments really wasn't a nerf at all given the changes to the crit sev + CA multipliers now; even the players at the top should be doing more damage. :)
    True if you have stats maxed it is not a nerf but if you do not it is a big nerf(remember if stats are not maxed they are as good as 0). that is where the dived between bis and non bis come in. These changes do not hurt you if you got good stats but it cripple s you if you don't. I have had new players state they are struggling to do level 20 content now.


    The problem is players with maxed stats are not feeling the changes at all. For players not maxed it is like running into a brick wall. Following the BIS only mod 17 this is really not good since player want to have fun not go on courses to be able to do dungeons/trials.
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    mynaam said:


    True if you have stats maxed it is not a nerf but if you do not it is a big nerf(remember if stats are not maxed they are as good as 0).

    This is 100% wrong, this is not how the stats work.

    Also, btw, Tomb was made easier, msp was made easier, no more perma fall deaths. So where is the harder for players?



  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    mynaam said:


    Many lower level player relied on req to get into endgame content. So by removing it they will never be able to do that content since everyone will just "XP only" and step on non bis players

    Is that how things run in your guild and alliance? Seriously, asking, you have "xp" requirements? This is surprising, was not expecting this.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    Another nail in the coffin for me personally, I went on, checked it out, logged out and am glad now that my VIP ran out.
    As soon as I get used to the way stuff works anew its messed up again.

    No need to discuss that with people that will enjoy the game in this state, tho. You can only cut your losses and/or figure out how to go on and maybe deal with it.
    - bye bye -
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    Healers got a straight buff. Why one should be in panic from that?

    There are specific places that should be adjusted, for example the mimics on Arcturia should either have their HP reduced back (assuming it was increased) or CA provided. But that is nowhere to be found in all the "feedback" I see here.. (In general)
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    I don't have a problem with the dmg formular change or with capping for tomm.
    I have a problem with the new queues and people that think playing UM and Lomm is what the game is about. I only have veterans in alliance or people with max 10 boons. Both are trying to go for tomm now.

    I have a problem with "fixing" stuff that was not the problem as a cover-up. I have a problem with not even attempting to solve longstanding issues because someone who has a monopol on the right opinion said it can be done or "run support"

    I have a problem with straight up buffing instead of adjusting all classes within the range when I can just smell that this will be the justification of oncoming nerfs.

    But of course people are only whiny cause they don't have a tomm party. Because its the only thing we have to judge players over now, right? Get off your high horses.
    - bye bye -
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    I'm dumbfounded:

    Why you need LoMM in REQ to run it? In the alliance I'm in now, people ran it as private queue to help gear 19k players before they can REQ at 20k.
    I'm sure that you will do the same for your alliance and guild members.

    How are normal players are nerfed? The formula changes the interaction between stats in exactly the same way for everyone. Normal players or any players will be more effective like everyone else, so please do explain this point.

    You farm, like everyone else, if you can't farm, you farm something else, make AD, and buy what you miss, exactly the same way you have a ToMM ring, and many of us have flower artifact, I don't know about you, but I never got one from Zok.

    How is that a big alliance like you are in, can't organize a LoMM run for new players??

    Ah and we are back to the small minority that plays "that other game" that notion came from one person, who had a personal issue with another person, can we get over this? You want to provide feedback? go ahead, preview is there, been there for 6 years, be one of the minority that provide feedback.

    People are engaged, is that a failure? It is far from perfect, but the main failure I see are 23k+ people who instead of helping their guilds and alliance organizing and running it, just sit in a circle and reinforce their negativity (there is a slang word for this, and as an ESL person I'm not sure it's appropriate).

    it's appropriate, but lewd. lol
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    Everytime there is a change in the game we have the same history.

    Easy content for years, is the responsible of people being lazy and not willing to learn anything.

    How is that before this change I can run with people with 180k power and max everything (rank 15s, legendary companions, etc.) in a DPS class doing LESS THAN HALF damage than other players with the same class? Sadly, I see this every day.

    Those people attitude of wanting everything to be the same for years no matter what the change is are the problem of this game or any game that involves basic math that my 10 year son can understand. They dont give feedback only cry in the forums and calls for massive ragequit.

    Is not about people less geared are nerfed or not. People with lack of any knowledge and lack of learn intention who is nerfed everytime a change is. People that spams you in privates with "what is the build now? what is the rotation? what is the BIS enchant and gear?" those people are here complaining.

    The change was needed to unify the damage between classes, and there are things to be adjusted, just give feedback of what is not working well, and the classes that are now underperforming, give feedback supported with data, but stop complaining about the ceiling falling in our heads.
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  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited October 2019


    But of course people are only whiny cause they don't have a tomm party. Because its the only thing we have to judge players over now, right? Get off your high horses.


    This is the first sentence in the op post:
    mynaam said:

    I have had some guildies telling me straight they are quiting the game due to TOMM's failure and latest changes.

    And this is 1 out of 4 points:
    mynaam said:


    • Why are they removing lomm from req does this mean i will never get to play LOMM and TOMM
    That is the topic that was set. I'm sorry that you don't like it, but this is the thread or at least a major part of it and a repeated grievance by the OP here and previous posts.

    .
    .


    I have a problem with the new queues and people that think playing UM and Lomm is what the game is about.

    Again, sorry, but that was the grievance from the OP. I personally ran only some of the queues, trial wasn't bad for example. Other dungeons like Tomb and MSP were made easier (which I think shouldn't have happened) instead cradle needs a stop point after the elevator to make it a learning curve. But anyway, what exactly you don't like with the queues? (by no means I'm saying that the change is good, it's just not clear what the actual issue you want to post is)


    I only have veterans in alliance or people with max 10 boons. Both are trying to go for tomm now.

    Not sure if it is a good or bad thing.


    I have a problem with "fixing" stuff that was not the problem as a cover-up.

    I'm not sure what you refer to, if it's the formula, then:
    Not all changes meant to solve immediate problems, things can be changed to prevent future problems. If the game had more of those, we wouldn't be in a mess like we are now.

    If it's the queues, the entire random queue thing was meant to solve the lack of people running leveling content, so new players queue for hours and nothing popped. They think the game is dead, and leave.
    So we have this hamster since then.. Adjusting forward and backwards.. Should it exists in it's current form, IMO no.


    I have a problem with not even attempting to solve longstanding issues because someone who has a monopol on the right opinion said it can be done or "run support"

    There is no monopol. The difference is that some provide arguments, and others (I don't mean specifically you) just post "Changes are evil" with false or not relevant arguments, so no one will take that seriously.

    Is it better to have an option to swap roles and still join in, as opposed to previous mods when some classes where just shut off when things got difficult. Yes. It is.
    Is it fair and healthy to ask a player "Invest several more 2 digit millions to swap to a role you didn't intent to play" No. Hell no.
    There is also a difference between viable and optimal. Many more things viable but not optimal than it seems.

    Anyway, at the end, the only and ultimate responsibility on any decision is on the Devs. They have the numbers, the player engagement, and understand what fraction of the population the forums or other places are.


    I have a problem with straight up buffing instead of adjusting all classes within the range when I can just smell that this will be the justification of oncoming nerfs.

    I don't know about nerfs, but I was expecting a balance pass, and longer preview, and not what we got. Seems a very "half job"

    Perhaps you shouldn't judge too fast. Good or bad, take a break? Have a work dinner, give it second consideration. I'm sure that many do not like many things. Should you quit or stay, only you know. But if you quit it shouldn't be just because there were some changes. Lack of other changes is indeed a problem.
  • some1stolemynicknamesome1stolemynickname Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    How does removing LoMM from REQ even effect ToMM at all? You do know people still run LoMM too right?

    I'd agree that the new queue system is a bit whacked, but you don't have much for valid points.

    Many lower level player relied on req to get into endgame content. So by removing it they will never be able to do that content since everyone will just "XP only" and step on non bis players

    rev#7881 said:

    1 - you can still q for LoMM ToMM ... you just won't get the extra ad from it.
    2 - these random q's i assume that they were made for the new players, they removed the hardest stuff from it and left the rest to make it easier for them.
    3 - i think its kinda faster now to make ad, or at least for me it took me 40 mins to make 120/130k ad
    4 - there should always be a gap between new/normal players and bis players or else what would be the point of upgrading your toon?
    5 - you can still get most of the artifacts from campaign store, auction house (prices have been dropping in case you haven't noticed) or zox
    6 - and i'm pretty sure almost every class aside is doing the same or more dmg than they used to, so i don't know were that ''nerfing norrmal players come from'' (EDIT: unless you mean vorpal nerf, but that is for everyone that took the time upgrading its not just for normal players)


    I agree with most of that. The problem I see now are the ones in the slot RAQ once was. ToNG can be a pain if you pug someone with low DPS, and now they can be REALLY low.

    Also, on the "nerf" on Vorpal enchantments really wasn't a nerf at all given the changes to the crit sev + CA multipliers now; even the players at the top should be doing more damage. :)
    True if you have stats maxed it is not a nerf but if you do not it is a big nerf(remember if stats are not maxed they are as good as 0). that is where the dived between bis and non bis come in. These changes do not hurt you if you got good stats but it cripple s you if you don't. I have had new players state they are struggling to do level 20 content now.


    The problem is players with maxed stats are not feeling the changes at all. For players not maxed it is like running into a brick wall. Following the BIS only mod 17 this is really not good since player want to have fun not go on courses to be able to do dungeons/trials.
    What a load of crock. I have 1 of each character: 3 are geared fairly well (but not fully top end BIS), 1 is somewhat geared, 3 are barely geared at all (even have some mod 15 weapons), and 1 is lvl62 now (reborn for the event) with outdated gear from 20 levels before (other than his slightly outdated weapon). I tested things people are complaining about on all, and really...don't see much of a change. Where i do see a change it's for the positive.

    Now quit complaining about nothing and play the damn game!
  • sobi#1980 sobi Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    I know things just got started, but the disparity is hardly changed. Yes, we all deal more damage lol, but that's completely different to disparity between non-meta and dps. The great example of which is the current state of warlock, even they have given up now.

    Just live with it or make another char or do whatever you want and leave the game. I was always up for a margin, i think most of asterdal's classes have a higher learning curve than the other classes. People just don't bother to learn their class well enough. I am happy with my class as it is but what annoys me is the evil methods the dev's are using. Keeping silent and acting like they are on all sides. Just lost my trust really.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited October 2019
    Just step into Vankardoom and try to face runic encounter without group or with moderat gear, not sure of that's ment to be like this, but I agree about small task becomes hard to solve, only to run ME all day most of casualplayer allready do in this game :/
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    I have had some guildies telling me straight they are quiting the game due to TOMM's failure and latest changes.

    What failure would that be? Their personal failure to complete it or meet entry requirements?
    mynaam said:


    • Why are they increasing the divide to BIS and normal player
    • Why are they removing lomm from req does this mean i will never get to play LOMM and TOMM
    • Why are players with maxed stats being made stronger and normal players nerfed
    • So now i will never get the halestar artifact or trobrian's ring (gave this person a free ring)
    • How are they increasing the divide? What does that even mean? Is this a reference to not being able to run ToMM because of entry requirements? Because that argument has been around every time new content comes out. "Normal players are being excluded from runs because everyone wants BiS players for runs" or "I can't get picked up because my [insert class] isn't top DPS class". Nothing has changed.
    • The why of it is boggling to me as they could have just kept it separate or throwin in 1 more queue with CR, etc. As for "never get to play LoMM or ToMM", make a group like most people that run them do. Are you not in an alliance? Are there not areas like PE, YP, etc where people are forming runs. Same old complaint. "I can't get picked up but I can't make my own groups".
    • Everyone is being affected the same way. Sounds like a build issue to me.
    • Again, your guild members can't form their own groups? And there's always the other option. Buy them.
    mynaam said:

    There are many more questions like this. It seems to normal players that they are being picked and discriminated against in favour of the elite bis players.

    Again, more nonsense. This is literally the first mod with ONE piece of content that is catered to BiS endgame players. Let's not get all bent out of shape because the devs finally added something that "normal" players will need to work their butts off to achieve. I'm not BiS and I find this whole argument to be rather ridiculous.
    mynaam said:

    I have nothing against BIS players but having a BIS only mod and then nerfing NON bis players just proves the point. I love rainer but his recent upload looks like a brag to players that will now never be able to run TOMM. Please save this game in mod 18. With a more than 47% player base drop year to year we cannot afford to not care about the majority of the player base in favor of the minority

    I'm sure, considering the devs themselves said this trial was an experiment, that mod 18 will be a return to what your guildies want. Easy, walk through content that's doable by all and boring to some.
  • bobby4700bobby4700 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 179 Arc User
    I was laughing at the XP needed cause as soon as preview goes off on any new mod people start calling for groups and want Xp players .which if u didn't play preview you are not Xp.
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