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barbie#2808 barbie Member Posts: 357 Arc User
So it's been a week now since PvP pre-season is live, and there are few points to adress.

1. Powers/Class Mechanics/Stats

There are some Powers that do dominate over others, but for what i've seen they some sort of balance eachother

Control Powers:
Stuns - while Barbarians, Paladins and Fighters have a undodgeable stun, i think it should stay like this despite people crying about it, and there are multiple reasons why, one of them is that these classes are melee, and are really difficult to even land a rotation on a enemy with alot of dodges. Also it only goes through Dodge, but not through other immunites.
Disrupts/Dazes - mostly coming from Rangers and Rogues, they manage to interrupt targets in their immune to CC, DAZES especially are stripping away all the Stamina from TANKs making them unable to tank
Repels/Freezes/Roots - they will annoy you alot on the map, especially sometimes Repel can be casted 3-4 times in 10 seconds.

Damaging Powers

All classes have alot of dmg, but mostly classes like Wizard and Rogues, if built well they can zerg everyone in half of a rotation, because they benefit from Combat Advantage from stealth and nighmare wizardy.

Class Mechanics

I think SHIELD on Wizards is problably the strongest defensive mechanic there is, also Impossible to Catch, for some reason.

Stats

Critical Avoidance is strong, but something is OFF when it comes for Deflect, apparently Deflect Severity on Rogues is still 75%, also there have been couple of Clerics stacking Deflect, and it seems that it affects the Critical Hits, @nitocris83 maybe u could ask one of the developers to take a look at it.

2. Matchmaking

Currently the Matchmaking places Immortal Overlords against eachother, and then it fills it with the rest, this doesn't take into account the kills/points or anything else i assume.. alot of matches end up really imbalanced.

Gear/Skill/ Communication

While alot of players are missing the gear, they are listening, while others have skill, they don't stang a chance against others, and some do not even communicate at all... now there is a learning curve that it seems the new players aren't learning, and it doesn't seem they will learn soon enough.
It's a shame when you meet people that also Quit, or do not understand that they can turn over from alot of situations if they would listen for directions.

3. Enchants and artifacts
There are few enchants that are strong currently and that is Shadowclad and Soulforge, 3 artifacts that perform really well thats the OP sigil, Staff of Flowers and the Envenomed artifact that drops in Dread Vault (this packs alot of damage)

and lastly there are Drains, if you end up using Drains, then infact PVP isnt meant for you, the developers should take some DATA over this pre season and look that no one in page 1 is using Drains, this just shows something that Drains are being used by those in PvE that would use anything they can to their advantage. #Remove DRAINS from the game already. Whoever using Drains will never ever learn why they dont know how to play.

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Comments

  • lemollenlemollen Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    HAHAHA... you are funny. You say you support a more skill-based pvp, yet you advocate cc powers that goes through dodges. You say its ok for paladins, fighters and barbarians to have these powers because its difficult to land a rotation of classes that dodges alot. I have an advice... gitgud.. Isn't this what having skill is all about? What is skillful about using a power that will definitely cc through the other toon's defensive measures? If you can't land a rotation w/o these broken cc powers then its definitely a lack of skill. Pvpers have been landing rotations on dodging classes before there are such broken cc powers in many previous mods. All you have said under your control powers section can be summarized like this : "Its ok for paladin, fighter and barbarian to have broken cc powers that lasts like 6 secs since I happen to play a barbarian but its not ok for other classes like ranger or rogue to cc me" Talk about double standards. LOL.
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 278 Arc User
    No power should be undodgeable regardless of class.

    I'd also like something to be done about kicking players. This has a huge impact on match balancing and more importantly, it must be a big turn off for newcomers. Maybe make it so that a player can only be kicked if they haven't dealt or received damage in a certain amount of time?

    Stardock arena still has companion bonuses active. Please fix asap.

    Healing still seems a bit too strong, but I'd wait with any changes here until OP sigil is nerfed.

    Squishy vs squishy fights are often decided by rng, whoever gets more critical hits in wins. After healing has been addressed, critical severity should also be reduced in PvP.

    Drains (and slayer/ward overloads if it were up to me) should be removed.

    Rewards are too small. Newer players who might not manage to get 100 tokens will walk away with very little after a season. I'd double the token amounts rewarded as a start.

    Solo queue. One of the most severe issues PvP has had for a while. Playing with friends has been a big part of both PvP and PvE players staying in the game over the years. PvP has been close to unplayable at times, but a lot of us still stuck with it, only because of friends. Without risking too much in terms of match balancing, I believe solo queue should be changed into a solo/duo queue. I'd also love premade vs premade style to be incentivized, but I understand that with current population, it'd be difficult to prevent win trading.
  • jabobohjaboboh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 29 Arc User
    gweddry said:

    No power should be undodgeable regardless of class.

    +1.
    gweddry said:

    I'd also like something to be done about kicking players. This has a huge impact on match balancing and more importantly, it must be a big turn off for newcomers. Maybe make it so that a player can only be kicked if they haven't dealt or received damage in a certain amount of time?

    I'd also like to see the devs try to find a way to stop the kicking of new players because they don't meet some veteran player's benchmark. PvP has been in desperate need of new blood for a long time. It's nice to see the new faces in there.

    Only thing I would like to add is a mechanic to make sure we can kick suspected bots. Was in two straight matches with a 9K TR that was either dumb as a post or a bot. Even after GG they would jump down from the fire, take the exact same route to a node and die. Wash, rinse, repeat. Perhaps having an IL requirement would weed out the lazy ones not willing to gear up their bot.
    gweddry said:

    Healing still seems a bit too strong, but I'd wait with any changes here until OP sigil is nerfed.

    I agree that the sigil needs to be addressed in PvP and I'm someone who often uses it. I will say it's funny when another player gets salty about the OP sigil in a match then hits you with the lion's knock back. I'm sure they bought the lion purely for the look. /s
    gweddry said:

    Drains (and slayer/ward overloads if it were up to me) should be removed.

    These drains have been a plague in PvP since day one. It's even worse now given how long it takes for the AP to build up.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    I remember at least 6 modules during which TRs could 1-shot GWFs through sprint/unstoppable. It was like a free kill button.
    We wrote countless times about this, and i always was told that i got to use mighty leap or save avalanche and time it perfectly with SE. Stuff like that. I do agree that no power should be undodgeable. For example, courage breaker...that daily still ignores immunity? Timing a shift mechanic perfectly against an attack, should be always rewarded. Still, i don't feel like those 3 classes have the upper hand against others. In past modules, we got real examples of imbalance. For example, as i mentioned before, all the modules during which most damage would hit GWFs, while other classes shift mechanics would negate either 80% or 100% of the damage. Right now, due to the animation, the barbarian stun encounter often ends up with the barbarian stunning the enemy but getting CCed in the process. Other CC from other classes have shorter animations and are harder to dodge. Barbarian sprint also has a bit more delay, compared to other classes' dodges. I would fix the stun going through dodges but also re-balance cast time/ animations to keep the balance.
  • lemollenlemollen Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    Lol you are finally showing your true colours Barbie. You see although there are people pointing out imbalances in the past eg, tr with broken courage breaker, they agree that no powers should cc through defensive measures. U on the other hand argue that op, gf and gwf shld keep these broken powers while other classes cc shld not cc through your defensive measures as they are “annoying”. Let me clap for u 👏 You say all this while presenting a stance that you are fighting for the game to be more balanced and skill based. ROFL.
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User

    no one that knows how to play a DPS Warlock or a DPS Cleric, cuz if they did, you would see how annoyin they can be.

    lol XD, yeah we all don't know how to play dps warlock.

    dps DC you have seraphine


    Apart from that hillarious comment, no power should be unaviodable because it makes it not dependable on skill.
    OP sigil could get a nerf (only for pvp like manticore bonus), i only use it to counter another op sigil. But don't mind me i'm a healer warlock healing potion with legs.
    Drains I agree that they have no purpose in pvp anymore with the nerfing to ap/stamina gain. These have to be removed
  • theothergaliusz#7671 theothergaliusz Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    My experience in PVP i played TR
    I meet wizard first
    I could not take down his shield at all.
    and he killed me with a combo of stun -push - freeze
    I started stacking defense, deflect and i could get out with 10% health but he will just kill me from range atack.
    this repeted many times.

    then I meet GF
    He stuned me for 5-6 seconds and instant killed me. Sometimes he miss and i lose only 50% health.

    Then i Meet HR he stuned me, when i am stuned i am being killed by other player.

    I meet a DC with 70k armor and it was imposible for me to land a hit because he dodge my big hits... if i hit him and take 30%-40% health from him... he just heal himself back to full and dodge. If 3 people gank on DC and somehow kill him... he have soulfforge and resurect with invicibiliy effect... and heal back to full.

    i also meet a DC who kill me very fast.

    I also meet Barbarian - he had so much health and defense and one shot me with immobilize for 5s?


    i also meet a lot of new players which got smashed to respawn point and give up going for the experience of constantly Instat kills... most of the time 3 people running.. imobilizing one target and kill... pushing button on keyboard wont help :)

    ------------------------------------
    I would like to suggest a subtle change in case of GROUPING on one person.
    Please make control effect not stack one with each others
    Target prone, stuned, dazed, freezed, immbilized, rooted

    If such a control effect is on the target please cancel next control skill effect from being put on target.
    (Edit i fortgot push and slow but they could be ommited?)
    3 people using control effects of their respected class... only the fastest will trigger control effect... the other control effect will be canceled

    if i am rooted, i cant put daze on this target... but the damage will be put like it was before.

    This should create a delay on players atacks... so TR in stealh would need to wait longer untill atacking that target.
    It will be wasted.
    This will also create time to react for players for the stun.
    it wont be brutal force kill with 11 encounter used in 3s that make your keyboard not existing.

    this would improve PVP experience a lot in my opinion.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    I still dont like the healing in PVP because the problem i see is that we have x classes and they all have the same amount of Health points. You deal damage, have high cooldown.. but they heal back and it is not heal over time, but instant from my point of view. this is also how DC win the match.


  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    @theothergaliusz

    maybe your 15k gear score rank 8 enchants, cardboard armor and broomstick weapon is the problem ..?

    screen shot your character so we can a have clue whats wrong
  • theothergaliusz#7671 theothergaliusz Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    My experience in PVP i played TR
    I meet wizard first
    I could not take down his shield at all.
    and he killed me with a combo of stun -push - freeze
    I started stacking defense, deflect and i could get out with 10% health but he will just kill me from range atack.
    this repeted many times.

    then I meet GF
    He stuned me for 5-6 seconds and instant killed me. Sometimes he miss and i lose only 50% health.

    Then i Meet HR he stuned me, when i am stuned i am being killed by other player.

    I meet a DC with 70k armor and it was imposible for me to land a hit because he dodge my big hits... if i hit him and take 30%-40% health from him... he just heal himself back to full and dodge. If 3 people gank on DC and somehow kill him... he have soulfforge and resurect with invicibiliy effect... and heal back to full.

    i also meet a DC who kill me very fast.

    I also meet Barbarian - he had so much health and defense and one shot me with immobilize for 5s?


    i also meet a lot of new players which got smashed to respawn point and give up going for the experience of constantly Instat kills... most of the time 3 people running.. imobilizing one target and kill... pushing button on keyboard wont help :)

    ------------------------------------
    I would like to suggest a subtle change in case of GROUPING on one person.
    Please make control effect not stack one with each others
    Target prone, stuned, dazed, freezed, immbilized, rooted

    If such a control effect is on the target please cancel next control skill effect from being put on target.
    (Edit i fortgot push and slow but they could be ommited?)
    3 people using control effects of their respected class... only the fastest will trigger control effect... the other control effect will be canceled

    if i am rooted, i cant put daze on this target... but the damage will be put like it was before.

    This should create a delay on players atacks... so TR in stealh would need to wait longer untill atacking that target.
    It will be wasted.
    This will also create time to react for players for the stun.
    it wont be brutal force kill with 11 encounter used in 3s that make your keyboard not existing.

    this would improve PVP experience a lot in my opinion.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    I still dont like the healing in PVP because the problem i see is that we have x classes and they all have the same amount of Health points. You deal damage, have high cooldown.. but they heal back and it is not heal over time, but instant from my point of view. this is also how DC win the match.


    Stun doesnt go within ITC
    If you use Smokebomb before a stun is applied by u, by any any melee class you are going to stop them from doing so..

    well from all you are saying is just a learn to play issue, Rogues are a strong class, and can 1 shot alot of players with 1 daily and they can kill anyone with 2 encounters, even if the enemies are best in slot.
    What i mentioned in my previous post was more like situation. Maybe a little hate on other classes. Probably i just meet an expert in PVP.
    kalina311 said:

    @theothergaliusz

    maybe your 15k gear score rank 8 enchants, cardboard armor and broomstick weapon is the problem ..?

    screen shot your character so we can a have clue whats wrong

    I am temporary on 5 page on PVP leaderboard with 19 win 19 lose games. Its not a big achievement. If i can kill one strong wizard with 5 people then i am more happy to lose the game with smile on my face, but that just me.



  • kominatchakominatcha Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    Well, I have been playing pvp since beta. I decided to give a try after a long hiatus. I decided to try a new toon that I just geared up and now I get kicked from pvp all the time because the team looks at my item level. Wasted effort. The community is still very lame. Not worth the time and resources to deal with that. That is why most of my friends quit this game or went to pve.
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Please fix the OP sigil, more and more are using and its ruining matches that would otherwise be good. Tested in 1 match, and 1 players sigil healed for 1.1 million. The team had 3.


  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    Well, I have been playing pvp since beta. I decided to give a try after a long hiatus. I decided to try a new toon that I just geared up and now I get kicked from pvp all the time because the team looks at my item level. Wasted effort. The community is still very lame. Not worth the time and resources to deal with that. That is why most of my friends quit this game or went to pve.

    and what exactly is your item level / gear score ?
    you made a post and omitted the most important part ..

  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    Its also powerful, but a CW loses a lot of dps going that route at least. The sigil heals party as well, and get overlapped now when multiple use. PVP is turning into a healathon and the winning team is those with more sigils 90% of time.
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Defending busted CCs on some classes but not others is hypocritical at best. These busted CCs such as punishing charge really do lower the skill curve quite a bit. Now you have even the scrubbyest barbarians killing the best players in situations where the barbarian should have lost/missed. If a player dodged the attack, then the attack shouldn't hit. Also, why on earth should dodges not work against some attacks when stamina was nerfed by half this mod anyways? Its also worth pointing out that dodges aren't the only immunity frame that some busted CCs are ignoring, duelist's flurry's immunity frame is also not blocking some of these CCs.

    Instead of trying to defend only some classes' annoying skill-reducing CC bugs, you should be advocating for these bugs to get fixed on ALL classes.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    Another test, 3 rounds:

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,637 Arc User

    My experience in PVP i played TR
    I meet wizard first
    I could not take down his shield at all.
    and he killed me with a combo of stun -push - freeze
    I started stacking defense, deflect and i could get out with 10% health but he will just kill me from range atack.
    this repeted many times.

    then I meet GF
    He stuned me for 5-6 seconds and instant killed me. Sometimes he miss and i lose only 50% health.

    Then i Meet HR he stuned me, when i am stuned i am being killed by other player.

    I meet a DC with 70k armor and it was imposible for me to land a hit because he dodge my big hits... if i hit him and take 30%-40% health from him... he just heal himself back to full and dodge. If 3 people gank on DC and somehow kill him... he have soulfforge and resurect with invicibiliy effect... and heal back to full.

    i also meet a DC who kill me very fast.

    I also meet Barbarian - he had so much health and defense and one shot me with immobilize for 5s?


    i also meet a lot of new players which got smashed to respawn point and give up going for the experience of constantly Instat kills... most of the time 3 people running.. imobilizing one target and kill... pushing button on keyboard wont help :)

    ------------------------------------
    I would like to suggest a subtle change in case of GROUPING on one person.
    Please make control effect not stack one with each others
    Target prone, stuned, dazed, freezed, immbilized, rooted

    If such a control effect is on the target please cancel next control skill effect from being put on target.
    (Edit i fortgot push and slow but they could be ommited?)
    3 people using control effects of their respected class... only the fastest will trigger control effect... the other control effect will be canceled

    if i am rooted, i cant put daze on this target... but the damage will be put like it was before.

    This should create a delay on players atacks... so TR in stealh would need to wait longer untill atacking that target.
    It will be wasted.
    This will also create time to react for players for the stun.
    it wont be brutal force kill with 11 encounter used in 3s that make your keyboard not existing.

    this would improve PVP experience a lot in my opinion.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    I still dont like the healing in PVP because the problem i see is that we have x classes and they all have the same amount of Health points. You deal damage, have high cooldown.. but they heal back and it is not heal over time, but instant from my point of view. this is also how DC win the match.


    Stun doesnt go within ITC
    If you use Smokebomb before a stun is applied by u, by any any melee class you are going to stop them from doing so..

    well from all you are saying is just a learn to play issue, Rogues are a strong class, and can 1 shot alot of players with 1 daily and they can kill anyone with 2 encounters, even if the enemies are best in slot.
    Could you link your guide please?
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    And another from 1 round:

  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Almost 2 mil on this round:



  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    Also shows the pig companion procing in stardock
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    And another, our team had no heals. Almost 2 mil extra from sigil.

  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    Um, it heals for between 1-2 mil per round no matter the player. Take it how you want, took tests from people in the rounds yesterday, and pretty much shows pig working in stardock, which companions shouldn't work, and OP sigil heals over a mil, no matter if the are" good" cw or 3 "bad", or OP.
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 590 Arc User
    And if they jump on someone else sigil, itll register on that person sigil as outgoing, which I why I pulled outgoing, not incoming, incoming could be from several sigils healing for same player.
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