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Overpowered Armor Enchantment and Artifact

animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
edited August 2019 in PvP Discussion
Shadowed Armor Enchantment, Level 14 - When you suffer damage, you gain +18% deflection bonus and +4% damage reduction for 8 seconds long. Effect stacks up to 8 times and ends up when you deflect an attack succesfully. When you deflect an attack with 8 stacks of Shadowed Armor, your armor stuns the nearest enemies for 2 sec. long, and put you in a Stealth mode for 4 sec. long.

Absolutely overpowered enchantment, which gives an absurd lots of benefits.
First, it stacks +4% damage reduction per stack, and can be stacked without cooldown, it is a way better in comparison with Negotiation Enchantment, which has only +1.6% per stack and has a cooldown of affecting you once per second. Totally, Negotiation gives you up to +16% total, versus Shadowed gives you up to +32% total, which is x2 times better.
Second, it also powerfully boosts your Deflection stats. +18% per stack, up to +144% when stacked to max, it literally raises Deflection stat x2.5 times. So after getting a several hits, rival player with Shadowed Armor will have his Deflection rate maxed out, no matter of your Accuracy. And with +32% damage reduction added, he is totally close to be immortal.
Third, additionally to opponent's immortality, when you attempt to hit him with a combat power, Shadowed Armor triggers and you got STUNNED and become vulnerable for any incoming damage without a chance to dodge it. Also, a stun effect from Shadowed Armor aborts your skill due you got controlled, so you actually completely do not hit your enemy, so he does not take any damage, but hey, he deflected it and his Shadowed Armor got triggered. That sucks.
And fourth, a Stealth effect. Isn't in a Trickster Rogue class property? Why shall everyone else has it? And hey, a Stealth effect from Shadowed Armor is a way better in comparison with TR's Stealth mechanic. Because you are invisible for 4 seconds long even if you are too close to your opponent, or even if you use your powers, you still are invisible at all.

This Enchantment is an ultimate overpowered thing, whick has no alternatives for PvP. When i check a lists of characters in PvP arena, i notice that 9 of 10 players use this Enchantment, which means everyone except me has it =) Rarily i can see some players without Shadowed Armor, but because they simply cannot afford that yet, because the price of Shadowed Enchantment raised up to 13 millions AD. Or some players prefer to use lv.14 Soulforged Armor, which is bugged and gives you an 8 seconds of total immunity to any control and damage after you resurrected.

Additionally, almost everyone uses another imbalanced thing - Sigil of Paladin. Most certainly it is used after a Stealth mode from Shadowed Armor is activated. Sigil of Paladin gives +15% MORE additional Damage Reduction and also heals you very fast. And that is really annoying when you forcefully attempt to fight with your opponent and reduce his HP down to 10%, and his Stealth activates, he uses the Sigil of Paladin, drinks a PvP healing potion, and after 4 seconds - "Hello, i'm almost full-healed, u mad bro?". Regardless of Stealth has a 30 seconds cooldown, it is very easy to restack 8 stacks of Shadowed Armor, and your opponent will still be unkillable for you. Sigil of Paladin also heals everyone in range, so when a couple of players stays at the control point in Domination match, they can use their Sigils one after another and get a perma-health without clerics and potions. That may be funny, but that is so sad. And now AT LEAST 6 of 10 Domination participants wears Sigil of Paladin in active slot.

I repeat: up to 9 players uses Shadowed Armor, and at least 6 players uses Sigil of Paladin.

So really, these things are overpowered and must be nerfed ASAP. There is no pleasure when everyone is cheating with damage reduction, stealth and perma-heal.

I would like to suggest some fixes, as i like to see them.
First, reduce damage reduction bonus at Shadowed Enchantment in 4 times, from 4% to 1% at lv14 and gradually lesser at lv13 and lower. So, at lv14 it will be up to 8% damage reduction, which is 2 times lesser in comparison with Negotiation Enchantment, BUT in also boosts you Deflection, so it's OK. And adding "once per second" cooldown for stacking will be fine too. Duration of stacks must be also lowered from 8 to 3 seconds long. And of course, this Stealth and Stun thing must be removed completely. In total, we will get a normal balanced enchantment, which will be used to raise your PvP-survivability through Deflection boost, but not for this Stunning-Stealthing HAMSTER.
Second, return back +20% damage reduction to Sigil of Paladin, BUT completely remove the healing effect of Sigil of Paladin in PvP. Just simply declare it as "Healing from this artifact does not affect in PvP", and we will get FINE artifact which raise your PvP-survivability through additional Damage Reduction, but not by this Perma-healing HAMSTER.

Thanks for your attention. Getting your feedback is always a pleasure!
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Comments

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Sigil of Paladin was actually reduced in healing potency and dr due to pvp campaigning in certain threads it used to be 20% dr not 15% dr : D

    most problematic pvp items / stuns/interrupts/dazes were successfully campaigned as well to have a dual pvp/ pve effect or hard cool down that may have been missing and needed for pvp / pve anyways
    all except for stamina / action point drains those problematic items have not been dealt with
  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    kalina311 said:

    Sigil of Paladin was actually reduced in healing potency and dr due to pvp campaigning in certain threads it used to be 20% dr not 15% dr : D

    most problematic pvp items / stuns/interrupts/dazes were successfully campaigned as well to have a dual pvp/ pve effect or hard cool down that may have been missing and needed for pvp / pve anyways
    all except for stamina / action point drains those problematic items have not been dealt with

    It is about Sigil's synergy with OP Shadowed Armor Enchantment, which makes you almost unkillable. Also, Sigil has AOE healing effect and can be abused by a couple of players, as those will use their Sigils one after another, and get perma-heal to everyone in range. I can't even imagine how much powerful the Sigil was before it's nerfed, but now it's still super-effective. Now literally almost everyone uses that Sigil plus Shadowed Armor. I take part in PvP every evening and i see the same annoying hamster every and every time.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    when you can't fight them... join them... B)
  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User

    when you can't fight them... join them... B)

    No way. Using imbalanced thing is so HAMSTERish. Looks like Kalina doesn't want to use Stamina Drain BTW.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Yeah kicking myself now I traded my U.shadowclad for a barkshleld last mod and didn't re-exchange before the store closed. In my defence pvp was a wasteland at the time.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,119 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    kalina311 said:

    Sigil of Paladin was actually reduced in healing potency and dr due to pvp campaigning in certain threads it used to be 20% dr not 15% dr : D

    most problematic pvp items / stuns/interrupts/dazes were successfully campaigned as well to have a dual pvp/ pve effect or hard cool down that may have been missing and needed for pvp / pve anyways
    all except for stamina / action point drains those problematic items have not been dealt with

    kalina311 said:

    Sigil of Paladin was actually reduced in healing potency and dr due to pvp campaigning in certain threads it used to be 20% dr not 15% dr : D

    most problematic pvp items / stuns/interrupts/dazes were successfully campaigned as well to have a dual pvp/ pve effect or hard cool down that may have been missing and needed for pvp / pve anyways
    all except for stamina / action point drains those problematic items have not been dealt with

    It is about Sigil's synergy with OP Shadowed Armor Enchantment, which makes you almost unkillable. Also, Sigil has AOE healing effect and can be abused by a couple of players, as those will use their Sigils one after another, and get perma-heal to everyone in range. I can't even imagine how much powerful the Sigil was before it's nerfed, but now it's still super-effective. Now literally almost everyone uses that Sigil plus Shadowed Armor. I take part in PvP every evening and i see the same annoying hamster every and every time.
    The OP sigil healing nerf to my knowledge never made it to live. It might have been reduced a tiny bit but if it was, I can't tell the difference and its still really powerful.

    Shadowclad is sort of like having a makeshift tenacity bonus its so good. I don't consider shadowclad a priority to fix compared to other issues but its definitely not ideal for it to be so disproportionately powerful compared to the other enchantments. I don't have any issue with the stealth effect, its the deflect and damage resistance that is the disproportionate part.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
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  • animamundi24animamundi24 Member Posts: 40 Arc User



    The OP sigil healing nerf to my knowledge never made it to live. It might have been reduced a tiny bit but if it was, I can't tell the difference and its still really powerful.

    Shadowclad is sort of like having a makeshift tenacity bonus its so good. I don't consider shadowclad a priority to fix compared to other issues but its definitely not ideal for it to be so disproportionately powerful compared to the other enchantments. I don't have any issue with the stealth effect, its the deflect and damage resistance that is the disproportionate part.

    That is why i compared Shadowclad, or however it is called in English, with Negotiation. Those are a perfect fit to compare, as both enchantments used to be survivability-defined. As i suggested, to make it proportionately powerful compared to each other, DR from Shadowclad must be reduced x4 times and probably, but i'm not sure, %% of deflection bonus must be nerfed too. As i declared above, Negotiation will be more DR-based and Shadowclad will be Deflection-based, so you may choose what you prefer. Also, regardless of you or some another players may have no issue with the stealth effect, it's very annoying when you attempt to attack the enemy but you immediately get stunned for 2 seconds, your attack is being aborted by stun effect, so as result, you do not any damage to the opponent. Furthermore, you may be counterattacked easily during you being stunned. A great result of YOUR attack, isn't it?

    It was OK with Sigil of Paladin's 20% DR AOE, but that healing effect is a real pain in your hamster. Return of whole 20% DR back BUT disabling it's healing effect in PvP will be a nice solution.

    Sigil of Paladin and Shadowclad enchantment! Play as DPS wizard - and additionally become a tanky tricksterrogueous healer!
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Now this explains the 2 immortal CWs i met in PvP today. Could not be killed. In the 2nd match one was in my team. They fought each others at center, forever, saying how boring it was. And they are starting a new PvP season with this stuff. Seriously. Well, since mod 2 PvP has been a joke with a new trick each module, making someone immortal, someone else a godly oneshotter, or a godly controller. History repeats.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Was one of them Jehricho..? I've met him in dom a couple of times. Immortal, may as well attempt to cut down a mountain with an axe.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • valmunter99#8413 valmunter99 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    @pando83 thats exactly what the "normal" ppl think.. could not agree more lol im asking myself too what these "old pvpers" get for doing that?? where is the challange?? do they not get bored like wtf... :D
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    @pando83
    so only Cws can use a shadowclad and a sigil of the paladin to be immortal as you call it .. hmmmm interesting
    so if a player only has a shadowclad and can no longer exchange his armor at the vendor he should wear nothing ?
    or use some other cheap rank 10 because its "over powered" (that is the argument you are going to get)

    who decided what the list of "broken" items are ? there has been no guild meeting not to use shadowclad or sigil of the paladin
    and some guild are still allowing drains .. i can guarantee you those "top pvpers" were not using drains

    if the player on the other team wont remove his shadow clad and the devs dont have item bracketed scalled Q (that will scale it to level 10 lets say that will enforce removing of upper end armor powers ) so what then ?

    there should be a scalled Q and a no hold bared Elite pay to win pay for everything what ever Q where people can use what ever "broken stuff that they or other players perceive / interpret as broken there

    so what other pvp items are broken according to you so i can add them to the list of what is "ruining pvp " and petion the devs for nerf / removal ?

    on another note if the CW were really "good" they would not be using sigil of the paladin anyways cause there are better choices ..you have no mobility with the sigil and can be pushed / removed the the circle ..anyways i have plenty of posts asking to adjust that artifact .. the issue with the sigil of pally if more like it does the work of a cleric for your team cause it heals everyone standing in it
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    If you've been around for a while, you surely know that broken items are not what killed PvP, at least not the main reason. What did kill PvP was constant increasing of the bis level, forcing PvP players to pay and/or grind PvE. Some good examples are artifact gear in M4, level cap with higher rank enchantments and all in M6, and best of all, M7 with its strongholds.

    With that said, I'm all for nerfing some of the most powerful items right now, including shadowclad, OP sigil and whatnot. Drains should be removed rather than nerfed.

    Finally, I strongly doubt those players were immortal as you put it. I have played before the companions patch this mod, and there was no CW that couldn't be killed (or I couldn't kill by myself), even those with all of the most powerful items. Yes, there was one who was using a fully defensive build and wouldn't die in 1v1, but because of that, he was no threat to anybody. Is it a good thing that you can make such a build, especially on a non tank class? Not in my opinion. But that's getting into different topics concerning the state of healing depression and critical severity in PvP.

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    @pando83
    said
    "So it also always makes me laugh when some "expert PvPer" write posts defending broken stuff in PvP, trying to imply that it's just "my assumptions", "

    on another note in no way do i defended broken stuff in pvp just look at my post history and what i championed the devs for
    to nerf/ adjust for pvp ..omg

    its only "non experts" that defend broken pvp stuff FYI in my opinion
    in my post i was demonstrating / writing the excuses that i too in fact have heard over the years but the irony went over your head lol

    on another note i always enjoyed the discussions you had with CLONKYO1 in the forum in the early days :D
    they were the best in fact i patterned my self after you bro
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Sorry i overreacted. It's just frustrating after 6 years to still see immortal players tanking entire teams and fighting each others on a node forever, then stopping because (their words) that was "boring".
    I remember your discussions here and i remember you as a good poster indeed. Sorry again if i overreacted. I enjoyed some PvP in the past weeks, and i was happy to see no demigods, people getting killed a lot and killing a llot...so when i met those immortal players i got really angry. Thank you for your calm reply and sorry if i've been rude...
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    gweddry said:

    If you've been around for a while, you surely know that broken items are not what killed PvP, at least not the main reason. What did kill PvP was constant increasing of the bis level, forcing PvP players to pay and/or grind PvE. Some good examples are artifact gear in M4, level cap with higher rank enchantments and all in M6, and best of all, M7 with its strongholds.

    With that said, I'm all for nerfing some of the most powerful items right now, including shadowclad, OP sigil and whatnot. Drains should be removed rather than nerfed.

    Finally, I strongly doubt those players were immortal as you put it. I have played before the companions patch this mod, and there was no CW that couldn't be killed (or I couldn't kill by myself), even those with all of the most powerful items. Yes, there was one who was using a fully defensive build and wouldn't die in 1v1, but because of that, he was no threat to anybody. Is it a good thing that you can make such a build, especially on a non tank class? Not in my opinion. But that's getting into different topics concerning the state of healing depression and critical severity in PvP.

    Stronghold boons and gear requirements were a part of the issue (SH boons now are way less impactful), but i disagree when you say that broken items/mechanics/builds didn't play a big role. Each module we've seen something that could literally break every match. Immortal sentinels, demigod GWFs with roar, demigod HRs, t.fey-t.neg immortal premades literally ruining every GG match before it got fixed, demigod immortal TRs with permastealth, oneshotting TRs for modules and modules, OPs for a period, immortal DCs making entire teams immortal, and so on. More or less broken, each module, PvP got something. Premades played a role, in my opinion. In fact, when soloQ was introduced, it's not a coincidence that it was the only queue still active, when GG and normal Domination died. Won't talk about SH siege because what killed it was unholy lag and the overall design. Every module PvP was plagued by some broken item-combo-enchant. Not talking about something that make players "a bit stronger". Stuff that made BiS players wipe entire teams or tank entire teams.
    Now, the aim in the last modules was to change PvP so that a single player could not tank or kill entire enemy groups, no matter the gear. No matter how BiS or how skilled, no player should be able to tank 4 enemies and survive, or win 1v3. Even BiS players were supposed to go down if they tried to face multiple enemies alone.
    Those CWs were not killed even once. They managed to tank enemy teams 1v3-4, and when they ended up fighting each others in mid, they could not kill each others. One of the two players stood at mid tanking 4 enemies, and literally wrote "this is boring" after a bit. This is not supposed to happen. Does not matter if the 4 enemies were newbies. You might kill 2 enemies out of 4, then die. Not tank the whole enemy team. It was the same with old sentinel GWFs 6 years ago, the so called "immortals". Could stand on a node forever and tank the whole enemy team, or fight each others forever. This thing, to show you what i believe is the first video showing that old, very old build:



    What i've seen yesterday is more similar to old CW with shield on tab+T.Neg+T.Fey, but still...
    We're back to this stuff, after 6 years.

    Extreme builds are less problematic than broken stuff. You meet an immortal extremely tank build that deals no damage? You simply cap 2v1 and then place a player on the node to contest it. You meet a glasscannon DPS? Focus that enemy first and take it down very fast before it can build any damage. That's the strategy that was used against sniper HRs archers a couple modules ago. Against extreme builds you can always come up with team strategy, since the aim of a match is capping nodes. Against builds that get to 25/0 K/D score, there are no options unless you have someone who can keep them busy and be immortal too.
    I know how useful strategy can be. During NCL my GWF was way weaker than BiS ones. Still, i won many matches thanks to team coordination and strategy. It can be done, but not always.
    Now we have this combo of expensive enchant + class specific sigil that works as explained in this thread, and it's, again, very, very similar to the old t.neg+t.fey before it got fixed, at least from what i've seen. I've literally had flashbacks of that combo in GG seeing those two players yesterday, lol...

    This time i think PvP has a chance, if they clean it from such stuff. It can be more balanced, and PvP season can make some players come and try PvP. At least domination and GG might be revived. But not if we still have to deal with demigods who tank 4 enemies alone...
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    From what I've seen over the last couple of days' pvp is a lot of good matches, everybody fights until it becomes clear that it's a win, or a loss, usually if the point difference gets over 500, or the teams are just insanely lopsided. After that the winning side usually calls gg, and things settle down.

    However, there are some high level, veteren players who adhere to the pov. above "no trading" who just go on a killing spree. These are usually the same guys who pop an OP sigil as soon as it looks they're about to get taken down. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

    As far as I'm concerned, if new players come into pvp, a large percentage expecting to trade caps if the match is unsalvagable, and some of them become regular pvp'ers, then that is the rebirth of pvp.

    If instead they are met by belittlement and outright bullying on the part of "respected" veteran pvp'ers... then pvp remains as it has been the last mod or so, a wasteland.

    Not namimg names, but you know who you are.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    @barbie plz pm the list of guilds and alliances that have the policy of kicking members if they attack other guild members in Pvp ..
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Played pvp regularly since mod two. One of the top HRs in the pvp arena. Inexperience. Sure. Rationalizing an overpowered piece of gear, and it's use, disguising bad behaviour as a "stand against X" are the reason pvp has become so underpopulated in the first place.

    To expect good behaviour in others is extremely short-sighted if you do not lead by example. I use neither shadowclad nor a sigil. Neither do I go on random killing sprees once the match is done.

    Who are you @barbie..? In-game..? My handle is obvious, yours not. And just for clarity, I already have all the boons for kills/assists, and captures, just need another 20 or so wins for the lot. I am not biased in the this respect.
    Post edited by jonkoca on
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Lol, why did you even quote me..? It's not like you replied to any part of what I said. 😅
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    Tried again today. Same old guilds, abusing the new cheese. Shadowclad (ab)users have the upper hand. The enchant is broken unbalanced, same as old T.Neg+T.Fey combo. Good job devs. What a joke. After 6 years, nothing changed.
  • stark760stark760 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 462 Arc User
    OP sigil is worse than shadowclad, heals too much and can be proced immediately after by another teammate running it. Shadowclad does need a cooldown or something. Now with the new 990/1010 rings, comps working on stardock map still, its pretty ridiculous even if geared. I'm curious to see leaderboard once it launches, going to be players with zero deaths for a while.
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    It's pointless. Just switch to whatever is Flavour of the Module. Won't be fixed imho.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,205 Arc User



    Also i haven't encountered any belittlement or outright bullying from anyone in PVP, in fact i am amazed that out of 3 days of PVP i only met one person using Drains, which is fine... and when we asked him to remove the Drains or else he will get kicked, the other 4 party members agreed to the same thing, if he doesnt remove his Drains he will be kicked, and he did remove them and didn't got kicked, but next time if someone is using Drains he will be kicked.

    So someone using a piece of equipment provided by the game, used as intended in the game, can get you kicked because some people don't like you using that equipment...

    Sounds mature.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • jabobohjaboboh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 29 Arc User



    You are so wrong in many of your assumptions, PVP will be a wasteland, because thats where the veterans done wrong, they spoiled the pugs to node trading and quittin mentality, with saying GG, since when GG means i give up?

    GG = GOOD GAME, its been said at the end of a match where teams are giving their respects to eachother, why change the definition into something like "i give up, can i trade nodes now?"

    Instead of posting on the forum and you really care about the new generation of PVP players, you are better to teach them how to Communicate, how to node rotate, how to chose their fights wisely on the MAP.

    You are posting in here out of inexperience.


    No Barbie, you are way off on your assumptions. As Jon said, the 'belittlement' goes a long way towards driving off new blood. Many simply say "f" this and either drop mid-game or never return after a veteran player tees off on them for having the wrong build, wrong enchant, wrong rotation, wrong anything.

    Going to the wrong node from the start is never met with "Idiot pug!" right? Instead it's usually "hey bud, best tactic from the start is to rush mid"? I'm sure that's what happens and it's the node swapping that has them leaving in disgust.

    Your literal definition of GG aside, it has been a long standing tradition that GG means the person is stepping aside and that the match is over for them. Usually when, again as Jon mentioned, the score and/or teams are completely one-sided. You're welcome to disagree with that, but don't couch your words to make it sound like you are the bastion of integrity for PvP with nothing but altruistic intentions.


    YES, please stop encouraging people to trade caps, it creates a bad habbit, and people will just quit, not to mention trading caps = exploiting, PVP is meant for people to fight, if you are going to quit, just stay off the node or campfire.

    Just stay off the node or campfire? So basically call GG without saying GG and you'll be left alone? I'm sure there are no almost 600K HP GWFs out there that would ignore that behviour, right? I'm sure their desire to not be one shot for the tenth time will be respected and they won't be killed.

    Or if they stay at the campfire there won't be some bunny-hopping BiS player below them hoping they'll come down one last time for easy pickings.

    /s
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