Where are all these troll post coming from lately? This is an opinionated question with an equally opinionated answer. First everyone has their own definition of "Pay to Win" on MMO games. The answers you get are also opinion driven and the question isn't asked to make anything better. It is asked only to troll.
Q: Can I buy items to speed up the game outcome? A: YES. It is called a campaign completion bundle or token.
I view this as "Pay not to Play". If they removed these items from the game, there would be nothing else you could do beyond running the content. As long as you have a zen exchange they can "claim" it is free to play, but to some people time is money. In essence 750 AD = 1¢ and because you cannot "cash out" makes the zen worthless the moment you buy it.
They entice free players here hoping they will become paying clients. Those who remain free play fill the ranks for those who do pay. I respect anyone who pays to play here, they are the ones who keep the servers running and developers underpaid. Thank you, to all of you paying players, for making this possible.
"pay-for-convenience" or "pay-to-speed-up" is pay to win
No. There is a very significant difference, There are games where you just cannot progress beyond a certain point, or obtain the best gar unless you pay actual money. Those games are P2W. NWO isn't - it falls in the zone between absolute P2W games one one hand and F2P games where you cannot pay for anything but cosmetic items and other fluff that has zero effect on performance.
Ran MSVA recently?
Ran cloak tower recently?
yes. I always run 1 leveling & 1 intermediate random queue. for the AD. I get cloak tower about once every 7 - 10 runs.
just because players don't have the patience to play to win doesn't make it a pay to win game...it's pretty simple, save your astral diamonds and exchange them for zen to buy the same things you can buy purchasing zen with real money. Spending real money isn't a requirement, it's just a shortcut.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
Spending real money supports the game so that you can gather AD to exchange for zen.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
for sure paying real money supports the game, but it's not a requirement to spend real money to play or win. I've been fairly satisfied with the real money I've spent on the game so far. I'm thinking most people who consider this game a pay to win game are probably just not satisfied with what they got with the money they've spent.
... to play end game you need 20-22k item level so if you start today you have 2 chance A ) pay B ) wait 6-10 month ...
... or simply play the game for a few weeks and reach 18-20k IL on your own, then join a decent guild and be within "end game" IL range. These days you neither have to use real money or wait months to get your character to a higher IL.
boost team XD nice idea, i dont like it ...my bad... but a good idea
... to play end game you need 20-22k item level so if you start today you have 2 chance A ) pay B ) wait 6-10 month ...
... or simply play the game for a few weeks and reach 18-20k IL on your own, then join a decent guild and be within "end game" IL range. These days you neither have to use real money or wait months to get your character to a higher IL.
boost team XD nice idea, i dont like it ...my bad... but a good idea
Well, the point is, Undermountain made it easier for new players to "catch up"... it's of course still a long way from reaching "bis" and/or being optimised to get the most out of your character, but it's a start.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Well, the point is, Undermountain made it easier for new players to "catch up"... it's of course still a long way from reaching "bis" and/or being optimised to get the most out of your character, but it's a start.
It is actually becoming a bit of a problem. People can now level to 7 in less time than ever before, and then they follow the advice of getting the starter pack from Undermountain (and maybe Barovia too for a second set of R8 enchants). They then start the undermountain campaign, and typically run into trouble at some point. Those who have gotten into a good guild may get a bit of help to complete that campaign, others just go back and do easier content for a while, but there are those that just give up - feel like they have been playing on easy mode, and then just hit a brick wall of difficulty ... not able to complete the Undermountain campaign with their 13L IL and 40K stats.
I think people are being encouraged too much to hurry.
Well, the point is, Undermountain made it easier for new players to "catch up"... it's of course still a long way from reaching "bis" and/or being optimised to get the most out of your character, but it's a start.
It is actually becoming a bit of a problem. People can now level to 7 in less time than ever before, and then they follow the advice of getting the starter pack from Undermountain (and maybe Barovia too for a second set of R8 enchants). They then start the undermountain campaign, and typically run into trouble at some point. Those who have gotten into a good guild may get a bit of help to complete that campaign, others just go back and do easier content for a while, but there are those that just give up - feel like they have been playing on easy mode, and then just hit a brick wall of difficulty ... not able to complete the Undermountain campaign with their 13L IL and 40K stats.
I think people are being encouraged too much to hurry.
Well, it's like giving anyone a fast car and access to the freeway... without the proper education or rather training accidents are bound to happen.
The Devs should really think about adding some kind of "extended tutorial" for level 60, 70 and 80 - perhaps in combination with the campaign intro quests on that level and some nice/usefull reward at the end?
I'm a casual player on console and have played for around 2 years. My main is currently shy of 21k IL, but if I had focused on IL over stats, he would be around 23k. That isn't end game, but then I always enjoyed the levelling experience far more than the end game grind (it can be just so repetitive and tedious!) and so have deleted and re-levelled alts more times than I ever spent putting effort into improving my main (ok, that does make levelling a kind of grind I guess).
I have around 50 boons which is more because I've played for so long (I mix and match quests across campaigns to stop it becoming too boring and can go for weeks without doing any campaign stuff at all). I still haven't done completed three of the campaigns.
An important point here in terms of character progression is that with the announcement of mod 16 and all the fiasco that went with it, I actually put the effort into completing a few campaigns I'd left hanging (I really didn't want to do AI if combat was going to take longer!). I also farmed for AD, which I saved ready for when mod 16 dropped. So, I've probably improved my character more in the two or three months before mod 16 dropped than I did in the rest of the time I've played NW, showing it can be done, without the need for real money, if you put your mind to it.
I have put money into the game, but only the equivalent of buying a boxed game off the shelf (which seems fair to me). I did this, not from a pay to win/advance perspective, but to give something back to the game having played for so long (after all, I've paid for other games I play).
With the Zen, I mainly bought extra bag and bank space. I also bought a few extra character slots and tried ViP. Personally, I never had much luck with ViP in terms of opening lockboxes and the extras like the travel post, bank summoning, not being damaged by traps, etc, I have never found particularly inconvenient not to have anyway. So, from a personal perspective, I don't rate ViP (I accept others will have a different experience and therefore disagree, which is fine). Even the extra bag space has not really been necessary as I've just become lazy sorting my inventory rather than I need it.
So, overall, I would say the game is not pay to win. I've enjoyed playing NW and still enjoy it. Whilst not BiS, my main is still in a pretty good position and just through playing the game.
Yes you can argue that paying will allow you to advance quicker (as some of the things in mod 16 have done; like the free undermountain gear). But surely you install a game to play it, not just to skip to the end? If you want to see what it's like to be BiS without putting any of the effort in, just go on YouTube and watch one of the many end-game streamer's videos. D&D has always been an in-depth and time consuming genre.
In a way, I feel sorry for Cryptic (ouch, I can feel the flack from that remark!). If money wasn't an issue, just think how they could have designed the game. The route of paying for the game through in-app purchases may be a common approach and certainly, some companies achieve it better than others. However, you can't argue that the need to push as many players through a game as possible in order to generate revenue does impose on a game in an ugly way. But without revenue, there would be no game, full stop.
Indeed, almost all items in Zen Store can be obtained in-game without spending any penny (except by a few items like War Boar companion and almost all legendary stuff that is pure RNG luck).
As they have said before, investing real money in the game has mutual benefit: You support the game to produce new content, and accelerate your game competitiveness as a "reward".
My only criticism is the delay in exchange of exchanging AD for ZEN. But otherwise, that's it.
I've been away from Neverwinter since 2015. Back then, I played this game all the time and spent literally thousands of dollars in the Zen store. New goodies would come out that were better than the goodies I already had and I'd spend more. Eventually it sank in that this was a never ending cycle and I was just throwing my money away. I quit in disgust at the apparent greed of the studio. On the plus side, I had a lot of fun playing this game. I'm a little surprised to see that it's still going. Is it still a money grab?
Badly loaded question that assumes that the game ever was a "money grab" which, when you look at it, doesn't stack up.
Sure, if you throw money at someone... they'll damned well grab it.
But no one is, was or ever has demanded money for you to need to do well at Neverwinter. Time and patience, and I'll spend my money on transient pleasures like aged Single Malts. (Damn those money grabbing distilleries!!! All our pleasures should be free and funded by some other goofball.)
So I guess if you are ready to throw lots of money at Cryptic, yep... they'll take it. They'll grab it with both hands. Who wouldn't? If you want to play for free, just line up with the rest of us and it will simply take you a little longer to get the goodies.
If your argument is, "This company allowed me to throw money at them!!! They're money grabbers!!!" I'd be tempted to keep that HAMSTER to myself, cos that says more about you than it does about the company... the company that's in business... (to make money.)
Why do people EVER think it's pay2win?! I mean yeah it might take long time to upgrade yourself. A few months or shorter. Really depends on your effort in time. However, it's not that bad, if you know how to earn astrals for a day. I mean really you can at least earn 50K-70K astrals everyday easily with bonus. Only refine 100K a day. So is it really pay2win? Yes and no. It can be satisfying by waiting sometimes. Spend a few cash, but I will state that Cryptic isn't greedy.
I've been away from Neverwinter since 2015. Back then, I played this game all the time and spent literally thousands of dollars in the Zen store. New goodies would come out that were better than the goodies I already had and I'd spend more. Eventually it sank in that this was a never ending cycle and I was just throwing my money away. I quit in disgust at the apparent greed of the studio. On the plus side, I had a lot of fun playing this game. I'm a little surprised to see that it's still going. Is it still a money grab?
How can you possibly spend thousands on the Zen store?
Seriously.
There just isn't that much in there to purchase. And I'm talking if you bought *everything* in there. I know because I play the AH and flip AD for Zen, and after a certain point, there's literally nothing else left to purchase--and that point is well below the "thousands" of dollars mark.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,093Arc User
My only criticism is the delay in exchange of exchanging AD for ZEN. But otherwise, that's it.
If you don't like the delay, invest real money.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
A player can invest "no money" and get a character up to 90% maximum damage potential within one year of playing. The final 10% would require another year. AD can accelerate this, but playing is still required. Keep in mind, that poor skill and knowledge of mechanics can keep you at 50% of your maximum potential even if you have obtained the BiS everything the game has to offer.
I understand the frustration that players playing 10 hours a day can feel when a weekend warrior comes on and buys more AD in an hour than they got all week. The frustration works in reverse too. Players that cant "AFFORD" to play more than 10 hours a week get very frustrated that players who play countless hours will always out-perform them at everything and that they will never have time to catch up. A game that enhances development speed and offers conveniences for money balances the two and keeps the game alive. Free players and paying players are equally important to a game's success.
I've been away from Neverwinter since 2015. Back then, I played this game all the time and spent literally thousands of dollars in the Zen store. New goodies would come out that were better than the goodies I already had and I'd spend more. Eventually it sank in that this was a never ending cycle and I was just throwing my money away. I quit in disgust at the apparent greed of the studio. On the plus side, I had a lot of fun playing this game. I'm a little surprised to see that it's still going. Is it still a money grab?
I agree that paying for something only to find it soon became obsolete and only to find something newer an flashier came out seemed like a waste of money, I was a victim of the same circumstances Neverwinter being one of my first honest to goodness real online MMO's - but it didn't take "thousands of dollars" for me to figure out the; 'buy-made obsolete-buy more' was a never ending cycle that would probably never end...
However another important thing to remember is that nothing in the game "forced" myself or anyone else to spend money (or time and effort) to more quickly advance their character and give them an advantage, it always was and remains the player's choice.
Before Mod6 I spent money to purchase some level 60 epic armor, weapons and obtain rank 5 enchantments, almost immediately after the release of Mod6 I regretted those purchases but again it was my choice to make them. I went kind of Character Slot crazy once when they had a really good sale on Zen "Services", consequently as a result I have some characters on that account which rarely get any actual game play time. Do I now regret the purchase of those character slots? I do, but that purchase like every other purchase I've made with real world currency was my choice.
I think it goes without being said that I have only myself to blame... Neverwinter is what it is, a "Free to Play" game. However if a person wants to advance their character more quickly and become better equipped, without having to put in the time and effort to accomplish that - there is a way to do that too.
If your argument is, "This company allowed me to throw money at them!!! They're money grabbers!!!" I'd be tempted to keep that HAMSTER to myself, cos that says more about you than it does about the company... the company that's in business... (to make money.)
Where's that "Shut-up and take my money" graphic when you need it? It would fit in perfectly here ~
Answers
Q: Can I buy items to speed up the game outcome?
A: YES. It is called a campaign completion bundle or token.
I view this as "Pay not to Play". If they removed these items from the game, there would be nothing else you could do beyond running the content. As long as you have a zen exchange they can "claim" it is free to play, but to some people time is money. In essence 750 AD = 1¢ and because you cannot "cash out" makes the zen worthless the moment you buy it.
They entice free players here hoping they will become paying clients. Those who remain free play fill the ranks for those who do pay. I respect anyone who pays to play here, they are the ones who keep the servers running and developers underpaid. Thank you, to all of you paying players, for making this possible.
I think people are being encouraged too much to hurry.
The Devs should really think about adding some kind of "extended tutorial" for level 60, 70 and 80 - perhaps in combination with the campaign intro quests on that level and some nice/usefull reward at the end?
I have around 50 boons which is more because I've played for so long (I mix and match quests across campaigns to stop it becoming too boring and can go for weeks without doing any campaign stuff at all). I still haven't done completed three of the campaigns.
An important point here in terms of character progression is that with the announcement of mod 16 and all the fiasco that went with it, I actually put the effort into completing a few campaigns I'd left hanging (I really didn't want to do AI if combat was going to take longer!). I also farmed for AD, which I saved ready for when mod 16 dropped. So, I've probably improved my character more in the two or three months before mod 16 dropped than I did in the rest of the time I've played NW, showing it can be done, without the need for real money, if you put your mind to it.
I have put money into the game, but only the equivalent of buying a boxed game off the shelf (which seems fair to me). I did this, not from a pay to win/advance perspective, but to give something back to the game having played for so long (after all, I've paid for other games I play).
With the Zen, I mainly bought extra bag and bank space. I also bought a few extra character slots and tried ViP. Personally, I never had much luck with ViP in terms of opening lockboxes and the extras like the travel post, bank summoning, not being damaged by traps, etc, I have never found particularly inconvenient not to have anyway. So, from a personal perspective, I don't rate ViP (I accept others will have a different experience and therefore disagree, which is fine). Even the extra bag space has not really been necessary as I've just become lazy sorting my inventory rather than I need it.
So, overall, I would say the game is not pay to win. I've enjoyed playing NW and still enjoy it. Whilst not BiS, my main is still in a pretty good position and just through playing the game.
Yes you can argue that paying will allow you to advance quicker (as some of the things in mod 16 have done; like the free undermountain gear). But surely you install a game to play it, not just to skip to the end? If you want to see what it's like to be BiS without putting any of the effort in, just go on YouTube and watch one of the many end-game streamer's videos. D&D has always been an in-depth and time consuming genre.
In a way, I feel sorry for Cryptic (ouch, I can feel the flack from that remark!). If money wasn't an issue, just think how they could have designed the game. The route of paying for the game through in-app purchases may be a common approach and certainly, some companies achieve it better than others. However, you can't argue that the need to push as many players through a game as possible in order to generate revenue does impose on a game in an ugly way. But without revenue, there would be no game, full stop.
As they have said before, investing real money in the game has mutual benefit: You support the game to produce new content, and accelerate your game competitiveness as a "reward".
My only criticism is the delay in exchange of exchanging AD for ZEN. But otherwise, that's it.
Sure, if you throw money at someone... they'll damned well grab it.
But no one is, was or ever has demanded money for you to need to do well at Neverwinter. Time and patience, and I'll spend my money on transient pleasures like aged Single Malts. (Damn those money grabbing distilleries!!! All our pleasures should be free and funded by some other goofball.)
So I guess if you are ready to throw lots of money at Cryptic, yep... they'll take it. They'll grab it with both hands.
Who wouldn't?
If you want to play for free, just line up with the rest of us and it will simply take you a little longer to get the goodies.
If your argument is, "This company allowed me to throw money at them!!! They're money grabbers!!!" I'd be tempted to keep that HAMSTER to myself, cos that says more about you than it does about the company... the company that's in business... (to make money.)
Seriously.
There just isn't that much in there to purchase. And I'm talking if you bought *everything* in there. I know because I play the AH and flip AD for Zen, and after a certain point, there's literally nothing else left to purchase--and that point is well below the "thousands" of dollars mark.
I understand the frustration that players playing 10 hours a day can feel when a weekend warrior comes on and buys more AD in an hour than they got all week. The frustration works in reverse too. Players that cant "AFFORD" to play more than 10 hours a week get very frustrated that players who play countless hours will always out-perform them at everything and that they will never have time to catch up. A game that enhances development speed and offers conveniences for money balances the two and keeps the game alive. Free players and paying players are equally important to a game's success.
However another important thing to remember is that nothing in the game "forced" myself or anyone else to spend money (or time and effort) to more quickly advance their character and give them an advantage, it always was and remains the player's choice.
Before Mod6 I spent money to purchase some level 60 epic armor, weapons and obtain rank 5 enchantments, almost immediately after the release of Mod6 I regretted those purchases but again it was my choice to make them. I went kind of Character Slot crazy once when they had a really good sale on Zen "Services", consequently as a result I have some characters on that account which rarely get any actual game play time. Do I now regret the purchase of those character slots? I do, but that purchase like every other purchase I've made with real world currency was my choice.
I think it goes without being said that I have only myself to blame... Neverwinter is what it is, a "Free to Play" game. However if a person wants to advance their character more quickly and become better equipped, without having to put in the time and effort to accomplish that - there is a way to do that too. Where's that "Shut-up and take my money" graphic when you need it? It would fit in perfectly here ~