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Mod 17: The good and, well.. the rest

adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
edited July 2019 in General Discussion (PC)
I must note that Mod 17 on Preview is not final - however, I do not expect any major changes, just minor tweaks and bugfixes between now and release.

Now, I was somewhat critical of Mod 16 (see the thread https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1246490/mod-16-the-good-the-bad-and-the-rest, but after spending some time playing with Mod 17 on Preview, here are my thoughts:
  • It is a bit hard to really consider this Mod 17 - it looks and feels much more like "Mod 16, part II" or "The module containing stuff that should have gone into Mod 16, but we couldn't finish in time for the release". It is not a major mod in any sense. There is no campaign as such, no new boons and a part of the new content basically re-uses the Mod 16 areas. By any sensible definition, this is Mod 16B, but they say they have moved away from "B" modules, so 17 it is.
  • The module is in a much better shape than Mod 16 was at the time of release. I have said it before, and I will repeat it - Mod 16 was not ready for Preview when it was made available there, and it was not ready for release when it arrived. Mod 17 does not have anything like the issues that Mod 16 had - sure, there are some bugs, but they are generally minor, and should get fixed in time for release
  • While there is no specific campaign, there are a few time-gated quests. Business as usual.
  • The new appearance system is a big QoL improvement. It frees up over 40 slots in my bank and inventory, and allows you to just unlock dyes once and then use them over and over in any combination you like. There are some unanswered questions, like where you get 9 specific dye packs that seem to be missing, and there are some minor errors, but in general it works OK. There is one design flaw, though - switching between complete sets of different fashion outfits is much more cumbersome than it used to be, as you need to reapply all the colours. I am hoping that at some point in the future they will include something like a "wardrobe" where you can save a specific "outfit" - a combination of dyes and appearances - instead of having to use a whole loadout just for that, or spend a lot of time switching items and re-applying the right dyes.
  • The new trial (ToMM) is tough - very tough - tougher than LoMM felt at first. It is great for the top 5%, who have complained about a lack of challenge, but this makes Mod 17 less relevant to the majority of the playerbase. I guess you cannot please everyone with a single addition like that, though.
  • The new playable race was a bit of a surprise (personally I had expected Tabaxi), but in hindsight it is very logical - in particular when you consider Baldur's Gate III coming out with spelljamming Illithid soon. Not that it makes much of a difference - the racial differences are mostly just cosmetic, and with the Foundry gone, the opportunity to make stories about them is limited.
  • The starting quests have been rewritten and streamlined. In some ways that's an improvement, but there are two flaws - one has to do with Wilfred - later references to him now make no sense whatsoever, and the redesign really does not solve the single biggest issue facing new players - their inability to communicate via chat or ask questions at the time when they need that the most.
  • Stardock is a nice addition - although it is just a tiny area. I hope to see an expansion to it at some point, but I doubt that will happen.
  • Crafting is a major disappointment. I thought Mod 17 would make crafting relevant again, but we are just getting some minor new recipes, new tools that basically make the legendary tools obsolete and worthless and no new masterwork recipes. This basically means that all the work spent on revising the crafting system feels wasted, as crafting just isn't worth spending time on.
  • New gear - well, we get a new weapon set with a slightly increased base damage, a new artifact set with a somewhat weird bonus and a lot of other gear, including some companion gear. Overall, nothing game-changing, but basically just what was to be expected.
  • PvP. Ah, yes... there are some PvP changes - but I'm not really qualified to comment on those, so I'll leave that to someone else.
So, overall...if you are in the top 5%, this is great - ToMM brings a new tier of challenge with decent rewards. If you like visual character customization, the new appearance system is great...for anyone else, there isn't much to get really excited about, but there is nothing to get terribly upset about either. There is nothing in Mod 17 that looks or feels like a recipe for a disaster, but it is not the greatest Mod in the history of Neverwinter.
Hoping for improvements...
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Comments

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    I'm sure with the guild stronghold update I am sure we will get in a future mod, mastercrafting will be updated as well. At which point I hope the mastercrafting tools, legendary tools, and the forgehammer all get buffs. It's just a matter of time before it's relevant again.

    The New expeditions do offer new shirt/pants and companion gear...which is certainly something that most players can get excited for.
  • tommynocker001tommynocker001 Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    Very little from professions is transmutable into lots of the new gear. What is the point in professions again?
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited July 2019

    Very little from professions is transmutable into lots of the new gear. What is the point in professions again?

    We can still make Armor kits and Jewels to boost the stats of gear.

    We can still make some useful potions.

    We can make some items with unusual looks that are usable in the new appearance/transmute system.

    We used to be able to make BiS pants (and decent shirts), but that's no longer the case.

    We used to be able to make Masterwork Weapons and some Armor pieces that were BiS at least for some builds, but that's no longer the case.

    That's it...I think.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,261 Arc User
    Point 1, the answer is that they aren't going to label a mod as 'B' because then it doesnt count towards WotC's 3 mods a year rule. Same content, new number and it counts.

    10B was larger than 13 and served the same purpose but wasn't a "full module"
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 179 Arc User

    Very little from professions is transmutable into lots of the new gear. What is the point in professions again?

    The point is that by taking away all your old progress and benefits from crafting, they open the door to you spending Zen on all new crafting stuff.

    I mean, who wouldn't pass up the opportunity to get a VIP discount on Profession Packs just because Cryptic nuked everything you spent on professions just a little while ago?

    Sometimes, you just have to wonder at the disconnect they have between "what they are offering for sale" and "why would any player actually pay X for this item?".
  • chemjeffchemjeff Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    It looks like the Top 5% or whatever get their super-hard trial, while the rest of us are stuck doing the Gold Ring Chase that we all did back with Demogorgon and Mod 8/9, and with FBI in Mods 10/11, and with the Chult hunts in Mod 12/13, but with Gold companion equipment instead of rings.

    So I'll treat it the same way I treated those: I'll do ME's and if I get the +4 item, I'll consider it good enough and call it a day.

    And I fully expect that the Top 5% will bitterly complain that they have to do the Gold Ring Chase along with everyone else, like they did back in Mod 12/13 when they had to slum around with the plebs in order to get their gold rings instead of speed-run TONG to get their BIS gear.

    I am very disappointed that professions didn't get much of an upgrade. There had better be an update by the end of the year.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,272 Arc User
    Thanks for the information @adinosii I plan to take some time to download Preview this weekend and check it out. I was busy with other things, being lazy, and from what I have read, and seen on YouTube, it seems like a small add on. I agree the new race is just a skin and holds no interest to me, the Tabaxi would have made them some money. A lot of my furry friends on Champions would love to get their hands on one. As for the comment about the Foundry, later I will be making an official announcement in mid August about my final Foundry Contest starting this September. Keep your eyes open, no one wants to miss this one. <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,923 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    So, no changes to companions in Uprising? Great... at this point i'm left wondering if the Devs even know how broken and fudged up companions since the release of Undermountain.

    I mean, the last official word on the matter was "We're looking into it." a good while ago, and i'd like to know what they have seen this far and when/how they plan to fix this mess?!

    Btw. will logging into the game after the release of Uprising as ViP (or two weeks later as F2P) player be enough to unlock the Gith for good, or do we have to create a new character/race reroll an existing character for that?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    > @regenerde said:
    > So, no changes to companions in Uprising? Great... at this point i'm left wondering if the Devs even know how broken and fudged up companions since the release of Undermountain.
    >
    > I mean, the last official word on the matter was "We're looking into it." a good while ago, and i'd like to know what they have seen this far and when/how they plan to fix this mess?!
    >
    > Btw. will logging into the game after the release of Uprising as ViP (or two weeks later as F2P) player be enough to unlock the Gith for good, or do we have to create a new character/race reroll an existing character for that?

    Logging onto on of your existing characters will be enough
  • nathanjmnathanjm Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    I strongly suspect they had a date and general plans for mod17 penciled in -- before mod16 released.
    Given that Mod16 required a number of extra fixes, post-release, things had to fall out of the mod17 deliverables. In other words, blame mod16 for biting off more than it could chew.
  • sinneblomsinneblom Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    I hoped that when it became known that uprising was coming, the whole game was being uprised, so that among other things as crafting and companions and dungeons that the potions, buffs and enchantments actually do what they should do. That the game was more balanced. The many bugs that are still present were also addressed. I really hoped that because I think this is no longer the game i start playing at 2013. I know changes are always necessary to keep the game going. But now¿ Such a pity
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 824 Arc User

    Very little from professions is transmutable into lots of the new gear. What is the point in professions again?

    The point is that by taking away all your old progress and benefits from crafting, they open the door to you spending Zen on all new crafting stuff.

    I mean, who wouldn't pass up the opportunity to get a VIP discount on Profession Packs just because Cryptic nuked everything you spent on professions just a little while ago?

    Sometimes, you just have to wonder at the disconnect they have between "what they are offering for sale" and "why would any player actually pay X for this item?".
    Now, now. Cryptic isn't the only beneficiary of the new professions system. I made a boatload of AD selling away all my profession assets after the big switch (over 10 million AD, as I recall - for stuff I had spent 0 AD or Zen in acquiring over time).

    So somebody somewhere is doing professions.
  • siggstarsiggstar Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    > @eolee said:
    > I think we should try to stop seeing ToMM as only completable by 5% of players and start looking at it like a challenge for 95% of us. It is something to strive for and a long term goal during this downtimes NW keep us into lately. 2 weeks in a mod and done.



    I agree with Eolee. This is what will get my focus the coming weeks, month or years.... 😉
    Halvulv the Barbie
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    Hey, @adinosii you forget about the Stronghold update.

    Drum roll...........

    Apparently the Mysterious Merchant has some new stuff.

    (I think that fits under "the rest", unless he has some serious kit on offer.)
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited July 2019


    (I think that fits under "the rest", unless he has some serious kit on offer.)

    No, I ddidn't forget it - it just falls under"a lot of other gear". I'm afraid the MM gear isn't that impressive, so it's not really worth mentioning specifically. IL 940/950 gear and not with interesting bonuses. Basically, it is only useful for transformation purposes, or if you are a brand new, undergeared L80 with a ton of guild marks to spend. That combination is probably

    Here are some examples (posted by Hodor in our alliance Discord channel).

    Hoping for improvements...
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,272 Arc User
    I jumped on preview and my rogue has no pants. She should be seen with Vistani but they are invisible? The Jack-o-liar mask is "obsolete"? Also how do I get to Stardock? Is this another no brainer like the letter on the table thing?

    What I find interesting is the incredible apathy for Preview. I asked in zone chat and it seems less than 1% even care to download and play test on preview as if it was work or something. This is why so many glitches and issues get over looked and then we end up eating shaving-creme sandwich. I would like to see 10% or more on Preview but can't make the horse drink the water.
    wb-cenders.gif
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    I jumped on preview and my rogue has no pants. She should be seen with Vistani but they are invisible? The Jack-o-liar mask is "obsolete"? Also how do I get to Stardock? Is this another no brainer like the letter on the table thing?

    1. Check whether visuals are enabled for the pant slot.
    2. There are 5 or 6 fashion items like the mask that are not usable. I reported (and listed) those in the Apperance thread in the Preview forum. Looks like a simple bug - should get fixed in time for release.
    3. To get to Stardock, just pick up a quest in YP - not obvious, but not too obscure either - just look for someone with an available quest
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    I'm looking forward to this mod on console, mainly to finally run content that is challenging. My only issues with this mod is that the trial is for only roughly 5% of the game population and the awards for completing the content.

    I rather see unique styles awards that are BtC/BtA and other cool things we can show off, especially with the appearance system up in this mod. As for ring award, IMO it should be through the updated ME and the rings should be BtA instead of BoE.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    Aside from the new 2 slot rings and artifacts, most of the new gear are from MEs. That's not catering to the top 5%. There are some new weapon skins using the new uprising currency, granted not for all classes, which could be improved upon.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,272 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    I jumped on preview and my rogue has no pants. She should be seen with Vistani but they are invisible? The Jack-o-liar mask is "obsolete"? Also how do I get to Stardock? Is this another no brainer like the letter on the table thing?

    ...
    Check whether visuals are enabled for the pant slot.
    Here is the issue, I will file a bug/glitch and hope they notice.

    This is Silvane Stardust wearing gear already transmuted into Vistani and dyed. In preview only her Vistani boots appear and not the pants but they are a combination. Apparently they broke up the set? She has Drowcraft pants I keep invisible because they cover these. I took the Drowcraft pants off but again only her boots appear in the game not seeing these pants with the stitching and wrinkles. A work around would be replacing her old Drowcraft pants for something else and dying it purple and turning on the visuals. But there should be no work around needed. I desire to keep this looking just as it is and I really don't care about the minor percentile changes an upgrade will give me. I cannot get my Vistani gear back, everyone knows the gear is unique and once used it is bound on pickup. This is transmuting the Bandit Lord's gear sold in the back alley of Barovia. Also I have invested 5000 AD a few times getting it transmuted.

    adinosii said:


    ...To get to Stardock, just pick up a quest in YP - not obvious, but not too obscure either - just look for someone with an available quest

    Still not working, I ran to everyone in the YP. No quests are available, I assume you need the mod 16 campaign 100%? Maybe I have to complete the LoMM as well? If that is true it is even MORE part 2 than ever, just like Chult getting to the Lost City. You must complete part A to do part B. I even tried the "Bane of the Mad Mage" and that don't seem to work at all, as I keep trying to use it and it does nothing but sit in my inventory.

    Nothing Earth shattering but just as you said, I hope they get these minor bugs fixed so I can put some pants on! <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,272 Arc User
    @regenerde I agreed with your response, the developers have not paid attention. But ever since I can recall, we have less than 1% of the players showing up for these previews and reporting it on the forums. If the forums had 10%, the developers would not only get more data for a better picture, they would realize the players actually do care about the game. The following is just an example (not political), my husband and I vote every 2 years at the elections. We are told the turn out in our district is roughly 2% and it saddens me people want us telling them who should be running or ruining their lives. When friends or family complain about the person in charge, my husband asks them, "Did you go vote?". If they answer no, "Then you have no right to complain, because you didn't care enough who got put in charge.".

    Players boil down into many categories;
    Armchair Revolutionaries - They tell you to vote with your wallet or they say we need to all walk out and show them who is boss here. This never happens, on any online game, because people just get replaced with new faces with new credit cards.
    Activist - I think I am in here. People who not only voice their issues to the users but take complaints to the developers themselves. I PM developers on here but so far the only one to reply is Thomas Foss. Years ago I even wrote Cryptic a few letters paper and pen in the mail. I never saw as much as a form letter in return. At least Mr. Foss is polite enough to respond, although when I voice my opinion often I am not as polite.
    Passer-by - These people just kick the tires, take the game for a spin, and never bother to come back.
    Addicts and/or Groupie - These players drank the kool-aide and there is no leaving the game for anything better. They are wearing their blue jumpsuits waiting for the comet to come pick them up. I might be in this group too? Save me!
    Antagonist - We all know these people seldom play the game, they just create trouble. They are the botters, hackers, spammers, scammers, and just join any social group to cause chaos.

    As for huntgate and caturday, yes I am glad I wasn't a naive user in either of those events. They were completely mismanaged, the faces change so much at Cryptic, I am not 100% sure who the CEO is any more. Feels like a McDonalds franchise after awhile. The developers dropped the ball and then totally said, "Players did it!". I am sure there was pressure from above, but this is no excuse, mature adults own up to their mistakes. As for the players, some do share in the guilt knowing there is an exploit and then taking full advantage of it. Follow that up with developers not fixing the exploit or just shutting hunts down until repaired would have save a lot of trouble.

    OH Great, now I have made another wall of text and derailed the topic yet again... I just came here to say, I cannot find the Stardock quest and I am not wearing pants. Believe it or not, I took my medication! <3
    wb-cenders.gif
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,254 Arc User


    OH Great, now I have made another wall of text and derailed the topic yet again... I just came here to say, I cannot find the Stardock quest and I am not wearing pants. Believe it or not, I took my medication! <3</p>

    The quest is on the 2nd floor with the Neverwinter representatives, the area you need to click to get into.
  • methuselasmethuselas Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    Only thing I saw that interested me was Baldur's Gate III. Thanks for letting me know about it. I'll be dumping Neverwinter as soon as it comes out.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited August 2019

    Only thing I saw that interested me was Baldur's Gate III. Thanks for letting me know about it. I'll be dumping Neverwinter as soon as it comes out.

    I really do not see them as being in competition or comparable. I mean, BG III is a single-player game, with limited co-op multiplay, whereas NWO is a full MMO. Totally different beasts.

    Sure, I intend to play BG III, but I don't really see that affecting my NWO play long-term. Anyhow....let's drop that discussion - talk about other games really does not belong here.
    Hoping for improvements...
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