...DPS Barbarians. (Whose response to getting a full red aggro bar seems to be to hit everything as hard as possible to make it go away.)
lol - that's their motto for sure
Thank you for pressing your points. Your posts encouraged me to try some things I had given up on. (I accidentally hit the wrong button trying to switch powers, blew 60 grand and had to reallocate all my points) so I figured I'd make the best of it. I went with Warlock's Curse, hellfire ring, blades, and killing flames. I do love the mobility of blades - being able to cast them while shadow slipping or just running, and if it's not giving me a little more dps than fiery bolt, it's close enough.
I'm curious how the dps compares to the curse bite build I was using. Sometimes I feel like I'm killing things faster, but some things like those bone golems in Throne take me longer to kill without curse bite for sure. Regardless, I'm having more fun this way.
I wonder if some of the trouble I have with arms is actually an issue with shadow slip. I used to be able to use that on the fly too, but now, unless I take the time to stop and square up with the enemy first, often they just pass harmlessly through.
I think if I was given a choice between letting shadow slip interrupt an encounter or waiting for the encounter to finish, I'd take the interruption. Getting caught flat-footed so often is jarring. The tactical move for all my other characters interrupts what they're doing for a quick save so it always catches me off guard when the warlock sticks.
...DPS Barbarians. (Whose response to getting a full red aggro bar seems to be to hit everything as hard as possible to make it go away.)
lol - that's their motto for sure
Thank you for pressing your points. Your posts encouraged me to try some things I had given up on. (I accidentally hit the wrong button trying to switch powers, blew 60 grand and had to reallocate all my points) so I figured I'd make the best of it. I went with Warlock's Curse, hellfire ring, blades, and killing flames. I do love the mobility of blades - being able to cast them while shadow slipping or just running, and if it's not giving me a little more dps than fiery bolt, it's close enough.
I'm curious how the dps compares to the curse bite build I was using. Sometimes I feel like I'm killing things faster, but some things like those bone golems in Throne take me longer to kill without curse bite for sure. Regardless, I'm having more fun this way.
I wonder if some of the trouble I have with arms is actually an issue with shadow slip. I used to be able to use that on the fly too, but now, unless I take the time to stop and square up with the enemy first, often they just pass harmlessly through.
I think if I was given a choice between letting shadow slip interrupt an encounter or waiting for the encounter to finish, I'd take the interruption. Getting caught flat-footed so often is jarring. The tactical move for all my other characters interrupts what they're doing for a quick save so it always catches me off guard when the warlock sticks.
I also run WC >PB, started short after release on PC, since I was stuck so many times in choice of power doing trash or doing bosses. I am even to lazy to switch between RI and Puppet setup, that silly thing is useles anyway doing trash. Parting Blasphemy setup is like: AOE ->FB, HFR, CB "Damn, I can´t run KF since I have to run 2 Aoe that curses+ CB, I have few options to Curse and recurse effectively, ACC is the only option... it takes to long in fast runs and I don´t want to switch powers between every fkn mobgroup.. AoH is wasted since positioning and casting takes too long, Hunter allready stole my dps " Boss->KF, HG... "The build works on bosses without adds (KF/HG/VE or CB).. but at Trobriand i must run KF, HG all time..so now what next to run for aoe/Cursconsume, CB? I have to curse every Scorp with At Wills by using ACC..that´s HAMSTER..anything else to use? FB/HFR/ etc. .. why did I build for curseconsumption ? "
Warlocks Curse setup is like: AoE-> FB-KF-HFR "I don´t care about Curse consume-it´s sucks and destroys any dps and rotation. I pick NPNM and DtD, I don´t need ACC (sucks to be dependent on it tbh). I time my KF to call /buff puppet or stack RI here and there , same as my powers deal 10% plus damage, the outcome is ok, compareable to PB-setup and I have not that much stressy times" Bosses-> KF-HG-HFR/FB "I again don´t care about cursing, Curses stay constant with few efforts, ACC again not needed. That feat is a burdon being mandatory for a fluent gameplay (for Curseconsum), I run DtD. My KF deals better dps alltime, who cares for that 75 mag from destroying and reapplying my HAMSTER Curses..:"
Sry, but the Curse consumption allways was an annoyance to me, and it got even worse in mod 16 to get it running, except on a single target/boss. Sideeffect to "having more fun", the build does not worse than PB setup.
2 Curseconsumtion-powers in one rotation by using KF~500 + HG175 + VE200 +2xPB150=1025mag, agree HG has a bad CD, right, that´s minus on top. No PB : KF~500+HG 175+ VE200=875+87(10%)=960 , my At Wills and my daily same as my Doohickey do 10% better on top, feels like PB is wasted to me tbh. even though this is something for a math student That´s how it looks like starting ACT at 1. boss:
...DPS Barbarians. (Whose response to getting a full red aggro bar seems to be to hit everything as hard as possible to make it go away.)
lol - that's their motto for sure
Thank you for pressing your points. Your posts encouraged me to try some things I had given up on. (I accidentally hit the wrong button trying to switch powers, blew 60 grand and had to reallocate all my points) so I figured I'd make the best of it. I went with Warlock's Curse, hellfire ring, blades, and killing flames. I do love the mobility of blades - being able to cast them while shadow slipping or just running, and if it's not giving me a little more dps than fiery bolt, it's close enough.
I'm curious how the dps compares to the curse bite build I was using. Sometimes I feel like I'm killing things faster, but some things like those bone golems in Throne take me longer to kill without curse bite for sure. Regardless, I'm having more fun this way.
I wonder if some of the trouble I have with arms is actually an issue with shadow slip. I used to be able to use that on the fly too, but now, unless I take the time to stop and square up with the enemy first, often they just pass harmlessly through.
I think if I was given a choice between letting shadow slip interrupt an encounter or waiting for the encounter to finish, I'd take the interruption. Getting caught flat-footed so often is jarring. The tactical move for all my other characters interrupts what they're doing for a quick save so it always catches me off guard when the warlock sticks.
I also run WC >PB, started short after release on PC, since I was stuck so many times in choice of power doing trash or doing bosses. I am even to lazy to switch between RI and Puppet setup, that silly thing is useles anyway doing trash. Parting Blasphemy setup is like: AOE ->FB, HFR, CB "Damn, I can´t run KF since I have to run 2 Aoe that curses+ CB, I have few options to Curse and recurse effectively, ACC is the only option... it takes to long in fast runs and I don´t want to switch powers between every fkn mobgroup.. AoH is wasted since positioning and casting takes too long, Hunter allready stole my dps " Boss->KF, HG... "The build works on bosses without adds (KF/HG/VE or CB).. but at Trobriand i must run KF, HG all time..so now what next to run for aoe/Cursconsume, CB? I have to curse every Scorp with At Wills by using ACC..that´s HAMSTER..anything else to use? FB/HFR/ etc. .. why did I build for curseconsumption ? "
Warlocks Curse setup is like: AoE-> FB-KF-HFR "I don´t care about Curse consume-it´s sucks and destroys any dps and rotation. I pick NPNM and DtD, I don´t need ACC (sucks to be dependent on it tbh). I time my KF to call /buff puppet or stack RI here and there , same as my powers deal 10% plus damage, the outcome is ok, compareable to PB-setup and I have not that much stressy times" Bosses-> KF-HG-HFR/FB "I again don´t care about cursing, Curses stay constant with few efforts, ACC again not needed. That feat is a burdon being mandatory for a fluent gameplay (for Curseconsum), I run DtD. My KF deals better dps alltime, who cares for that 75 mag from destroying and reapplying my HAMSTER Curses..:"
Sry, but the Curse consumption allways was an annoyance to me, and it got even worse in mod 16 to get it running, except on a single target/boss. Sideeffect to "having more fun", the build does not worse than PB setup.
2 Curseconsumtion-powers in one rotation by using KF~500 + HG175 + VE200 +2xPB150=1025mag, agree HG has a bad CD, right, that´s minus on top. No PB : KF~500+HG 175+ VE200=875+87(10%)=960 , my At Wills and my daily same as my Doohickey do 10% better on top, feels like PB is wasted to me tbh. even though this is something for a math student That´s how it looks like starting ACAT at 1. boss:
I don't advocate using KF in an AoE setup. The potentially high magnitude doesn't make up for the fact that it's a single-target power on a semi-long cooldown. CB+PB only has to hit two targets with one charge to rival the magnitude of your average KF cast, never mind if you have both charges ready to go.
It's fine not to want to play with Curse Consume in general, but I haven't seen the same results you have without it. Curse Bite also has the advantage of building up to two charges on independent recharge timers, letting you situationally front-load your damage better.
As said, it´s also a question of quality. I could run a puppet build for aoe with CB and there are occasion when mobs are not spread, where I can time my CB and do better, even without PB feated. The difference is marginal to me, since I run both setups. I hit my KF and call that puppet or buff it a bit. Cursecunsume is a constant annoyance to me, being forced to switch and chose between powers and feature same as: "Uuups i missed that Curse, my encounter is not willing to fire, damn, wait 2 seconds, next time maybe, damn now my RI stacks run out .. I am such a noob" -> simply stupid in the sum. If you look up for ACT, the damage you deal with PB over a run is about 10%. If you pick WC 10% and DtD 5% you reach similar results. There are enough damage sources that synergise with WC, same as feats. I am pretty sure situation in mod 17 won´t improve for warlock. When VIP runs out I gonna stop playing, the game same as the company are as annoying as Curseconsume for a pretty long time now
...DPS Barbarians. (Whose response to getting a full red aggro bar seems to be to hit everything as hard as possible to make it go away.)
I wonder if some of the trouble I have with arms is actually an issue with shadow slip. I used to be able to use that on the fly too, but now, unless I take the time to stop and square up with the enemy first, often they just pass harmlessly through.
I think it is half and half. I played Pally a lot pre M16 and that was always self interrupting if you tried to run a chain of powers into one another. Eventually you got used to waiting that extra split second for the first power to hit the "tick" that means its fired and past the point of interruption before rolling the next.
I watched last night to see if I was ever getting the issue with Arms, and sure enough I noticed that using it and then very quickly afterwards shadow slipping seemed to bugger up either one or the other. I'd either be unable to slip or the Power would cancel. I took to holding the button a fraction longer before hitting the next move/power (I'm not talking seconds... just "pressing" rather than "tapping" if that makes sense?) and it seemed to deal with it.
My biggest issue with all the classes, lack of combinations. Before module 16 any character you made had a multitude of facets. I think I covered this back when I had my signature looking like this;
By this, I mean the combination lock went from 64 bit encryption to rusty 4 digit a bike lock. Someone will get the analogy.
I also said, that both the warlock and the barbarian had their time. Now both have been hit hard enough by the nerf hammer to make us take notice. This game from the very onset has been "Hey players here is something new!" then months after everyone screams how over powered the new thing is, they nerf it into soup. The next cycle starts, "You nerfed that new thing just as we were getting use to using it!", cry the players. After that they either, eliminate the new thing claiming that it was botted or bugged, or they wreck something else to distract people from the new thing. Then the cycle repeats over long periods of time with different new and improved items.
A good example of this is, they upgraded professions (mod 15) and now they leave them to rot on the side, while distracting you with a new race. I bet someone at Cryptic thought no one would figure that one out. Down the road they will either remove professions because they are bugged or maybe they will just wreck something else to distract us from the workshop. Who knows? I am not holding my breath on them adding or improving recipes for us any time soon.
I have noticed the difference of both my warlock and barbarian. We should be able to play them with more than one or two select builds, but we cannot. The "go to site" for builds has only 1 warlock build for mod 16. MMOminds use to have a lot more but it looks like players are removing the old builds, which only makes sense. These new and improved characters lack the variable nature to have anything other than 1 or 2 good builds at best.
I think it is half and half...I took to holding the button a fraction longer before hitting the next move/power (I'm not talking seconds... just "pressing" rather than "tapping" if that makes sense?) and it seemed to deal with it.
I haven't used it for a while now, and I may be misremembering or just imagining it, but I recall Arms of Hadar whiffing a lot whenever I used it to initiate combat. Again some of that may have been shadow slip as I closed in, but I could swear it happened coming off the mount too, or even just jogging up.
I'll have to take another look. Within combat, Arms didn't seem to be too bad, though it never did track moving enemies well - those Bone Golems come to mind again. Trying to slap them down as they crossed the map was always practically impossible for me.
I posted this in the other warlock thread figured I would post it here...
Hey guys I dont play a warlock but I play with one of the most powerful ones from pre mod16.. I talked to Lassor from Cryptic and he says quote "there isnt anything wrong with it. People need to learn the mechanics" It got pretty heated but that's that.
Clearly the devs need to play a competative match as a Warlock against some of the better players who will be using Wizards, Rangers etc. Here's an example .... Ranger has 25% buff just by being in Melee stance, their encounter power cooldowns can be reduced by 3 seconds when they cast an encounter power. The Warlock has similar cooldowns to the Ranger, but only starts with a 5% DPS increase from a feat and 0.15% x 6 = 0.9% from the 6 soul sparks they start with. They can increase their DPS by 0.15% for every soul spark that they can generate and to reduce their cooldowns by 3 seconds they need to use 18 soulsparks.
Let's assume that the Warlock has full sparks (30) that's a self buff of (0.15 x 30 = 4.5%) plus their 5% from a feat, the Warlock has a self buff (at full sparks) of 9.5%; the Ranger has 25% just by being in Melee stance.
As the fight progresses, the Warlock wants to reduce their cooldowns, they cast Soul Scorch which deals some damage but costs them 18 sparks (0.15% x 18) 2.7% of their self buffs so that extra DPS power they have costs the Warlock on their encounters (or they have to At-Will to gain the sparks again).
The encounter magnitudes for the these two classes are miles apart in terms of what they can deliver, coupled with the low self-buffs the class cannot compete.
Cryptic may say that we just need to know the mechanics but we know the mechanics that's why we're raising how pitiful the DPS is for the Warlock, it's simply not competative. If Cryptic are so sure of the Warlock then get them to use a Warlock and go into a DPS match against some of the top DPS players in the game and prove to us how viable it is.
Scourge warlock... my favorite class since the day it was created year 2016. Devs have ruined the warlock class tbh. The class is underpowered compared to other dps/support/heal classes. Hellbringer is weak af, and soulweaver is HAMSTER !!! No one wants to have a soulweaver in their group anyway. Templock was very fun to play with cuz it had nice dps and super healing. The scaling makes it even worse. The dps is hamster and healing is a joke !!
... I talked to Lassor from Cryptic and he says quote "there isnt anything wrong with it. People need to learn the mechanics"
...Cryptic may say that we just need to know the mechanics but we know the mechanics that's why we're raising how pitiful the DPS is for the Warlock, it's simply not competative...
I'm sure there's some truth to that statement, but to claim that not only the dps gap between the warlock and other classes but also the issues people have with some of the encounters and shadow slip - all comes down to user error... That's a bit much.
Let's be honest, the class had only good times in the first mods since its release (yes with puppet and MF bug) but Warlock seems to be the underdog class in NWO. Lots of reports, suggestion for improvement, people claiming for a fix for the class, and we have nothing, every week, every preview patch and they haven't any solution for us. It's like devs are ignoring this class, i haven't clue why, but they are doing everything to make this class the worst DPS class in the game....oops! i almost forgot about Warlock isn't a DPS class anymore, because even when @asterdahl said that every class with a DPS path should be able to DPS just as well as any other class with only DPS paragons it seems that not "PURE DPS" shouldn't be as good for DPS: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246316/official-m16-cleric-feedback/p3 And to be honest it's hard to believe why a class should be so sad to play, devs don't know about how hard is to have a good built character and being unable to run content ( i only can run REQ if i queue for it because nobody wants a Warlock) or Watcher runs (everyone LF cw, tr, hr only) I'm a 23k Warlock only but i know how to play the class, and i know how weak is it, i can see lots of threads about other players claiming a fix for Warlocks too. Almost all Warlock players are playing other class (Wizard) because they don't want to deal with the worst class in the game. I don't expect a solution for Warlocks, because i'm hopeless to see a kind mod for us, Mod 17 gonna be a hell for us if they can't fix the class unbalance.
We should face it that the mod 16 Warlock remake was made by student workers. Now mod 17 is comming, no change/fix at all to the class, cuz they are on summer vacation and wont read/respond the feedbacks ...
We should face it that the mod 16 Warlock remake was made by student workers. Now mod 17 is comming, no change/fix at all to the class, cuz they are on summer vacation and wont read/respond the feedbacks ...
Go for Wizard, in case you don´t want to tank, heal or main a TR allready. Best dps, best gameplay, best cc, most fun imo. All drop off, Hunter also. Warlock compared to Wizard: Slow, selfdestructive, buggy, contradictious, squishy, clumsy ... as you say a students work. * some of them do not respond even being not on vacation, some simply don´t communicate at all, never.
> @smokin1#1764 said: > theres nothing pitiful about warlock, cleric is pitiful > > You've clearly never played a DPS Warlock, prior to Mod 16, and compared that experience to DPS Warlock in Mod 16. As someone who has exclusively played a DPS Warlock, Warlock is dead last as a DPS class and is in a worse position than in Mod 15. > > you must not know how to play warlock, i pity you. but i run a 25k+ cleric and i know 2-3 22k warlocks who will do 2x my dps
Just maybe, you need to l2p your dc? If u have 25k+ gs on a dps there is prolly alot wrong
I cant go trough all the comment but did any of warlocks mention 20% more damage as target hp deminishes or the 10% increase damage when target(s) is affected by lesser curse wich is super easy to do and lastly 5% inc damage feat, its flat boost. So how in the world does a warlock need a buff, I think thats a bit to much buff especialy one tied to the HP, come on now, thats better then Orcus set, cut that HAMSTER down
I cant go trough all the comment but did any of warlocks mention 20% more damage as target hp deminishes or the 10% increase damage when target(s) is affected by lesser curse wich is super easy to do and lastly 5% inc damage feat, its flat boost. So how in the world does a warlock need a buff, I think thats a bit to much buff especialy one tied to the HP, come on now, thats better then Orcus set, cut that HAMSTER down
Even with all of that taken into account and other things like Vorpal Weapon Enchantment, Hag's Rags, Terrored Grips, Boots of the Willed / Enduring Boots, Orcus Set, Shadowstalker +5 / +4 or Shadowstalker +5 / Ebonized Raid Ring (+3% Ranged Damage), DPS Warlock is still dead last in terms of damage compared to other DPS classes. @asterdahl stated that all DPS classes were supposed to have the same potential for damage output. So yes, the class does need a buff to damage. Otherwise, no one is going to want a DPS Warlock with them in ToMM once Mod 17 is available.
I cant go trough all the comment but did any of warlocks mention 20% more damage as target hp deminishes or the 10% increase damage when target(s) is affected by lesser curse wich is super easy to do and lastly 5% inc damage feat, its flat boost. So how in the world does a warlock need a buff, I think thats a bit to much buff especialy one tied to the HP, come on now, thats better then Orcus set, cut that HAMSTER down
sorry to break it to u, but warlock is still HAMSTER dps
I'd be fairly happy if a few encounters I like and shadowslip were simply working properly. I'm not "looking for a buff"
- though I wouldn't say no to a nerf. If there's reluctance to raise the warlock's magnitudes on par with the rest of the dps classes, that's fine. How about bringing the rest of the dps classes' magnitudes in line with the warlock's.
The main reason warlocks have a deficit in being competitive is that on average your loosing ri stacks and sparks to quickly. You can only usually get to 1 or 2 stacks of ri and get sparks maxed 1 or 2x in combat before it all drops off between hallways, phases, stuns, etc. Coupled with magnitudes. And extremely slow buff buildup. Only at full self buffs 25%ri 10% curse feat, 5%dtd, 4.5% max sparks for a total of 44.5% self buffs, are we even close to competitive with other dps classes at equivalent stats and gearing like cw, hr, tr.
Let's compare wizards and warlocks magnitudes. Example being our at will hr does 30 (less with npnm) magnitude damage per second, Cw rof has 250 to 140 magnitude per 1/2 second. Cw can have 4 encounters 475 350 400 375 for 1600 magnitude per rotation with an instant 20% increase to damage to base magnitudes from roe increased by 250 for 1850 magnitude per rotation on encounters. Warlock is 400 255 175 for 820 encounter rotation up to 1020 when creature almost dead. Our personal buff fluctuates and takes up to 90 seconds to get full stacks of ri and sparks. Even at 44.5% additional damage to an almost dead creatures our max magnitude damage is 1473.9. With our feat for 20% additional damage as creature loses health our peak is damage 1768.68 at almost dead.
Add in wizard smoulder feat 75% damage (another 25% on crit) vs 25% warlock additional necrotic/fire, plus chill/arcane stacks and which further increases the dps gap.
In the end, even if we were capable of 100% full uptime of all possible self buff at max we still are at a deficit. Let alone starting at 45% damage a wizard has in first rotation going in before it's own stack mechanics accumulate.
Thats why warlocks of equal gear, stats and skill typically end runs with aprox 30% less damage on average. Warlock mechanics, feats, magnitudes, cast times and passives, are just really in a bad place this mod with out even getting into the soulweaver issues which are magnitudes worse than other healing classes.
Most warlocks I know have outright quit playing neverwinter or changed to another class if they could afford to build another character after spending upwards of 30m ad to rework and get endgame in mod 16 and find out how bad it really is.
Very disheartening to see and warlock class feedback ignored since preview and not even a word of possible improvements like what was announced after the owlbear cub nerf. At least back then devs acknowledged there was an issues and warlocks had some hope of improvement.
But hey, "Spiders should no longer all be the same size".
Where one class is rewarded with synergies and instant burst the other has to build up stack in a minute or has to run clumsy "workarrounds" to benefit from synergies to somehow destroy them in short again. I did not even try to check Creeping death any more it as bugged since release. There even is no At Will that deals any kind of acceptabale aoe, compared with scorching that bursts a hole group of mobs from proccing a passive, Warlock has to apply his at wills one by one on each target.
The healer part lost all it´s utility in lifesteal and mobility and all they left were "selfcutting mechanics" because the class has to "sacrifice a bit of his soul" but got nothing to compensate for it in exchange. Oathkeeper can drop his 300k shield, Devout has strong HOT's. Students work at best, someone mentioned.
I went over to build up my wizard, since warlock is somehow depressing, not exclusively in terms of dps but also and especially in terms of gameexperience, synergies and missing concepts.
It´s interesting to read comments, mostly from clueless "26k dudes", who got beaten by a lower performing and geared class, maybe warlocks or even a Pally. I met a lot in random groups. Where their 26k CW deals 2/3 of my dps another Wizards or TR deals my dps x1.5 easily with IL 23k if correctly build. They underperform significant, dealing 50% of what they should and rage against the obvious, amusing.
try curse synergy build using hfr, hg,kf in single target and fb, hfr, kf in aoe. My results have been with cooldown reductions it performs better.
The only time cb performs better with parting blasphemy for me is grouped up adds if 5 or more and long intermissions of 23 to 26 seconds between combat to get both cb charges back. Parting blasphmeny with 2 initial pops and an average of 13 seconds for a reaplication, misfires, issues cursing targets outside 15' radius, other burst classes killing cursed creatures vs continuous 15% (10% curse feat and 5% dtd) additional damage to all cursed targets, faster si stacks from kf, and cooldown reduction on all attacks.
I also tried dtd on curse consume, but without acc to reliably apply curse in single target I get less damage from missed si stacks in single target, and aoe has slower si stacks.
In fights with back to back or contunuous combat and creatures with higher hp curse synergy nets me more damage. With kf i'm averaging and additional 45 to 60k each hit, plus additional 3 to 4k per at will, 15 to 20k per fb plus splash damage, 25 to 30k per add with hfr in aoe and 5k per tick of hg vs parting blasphemy getting 40k per add with 2x for 80k first rotation, then 13 seconds for each additional activation. Faster si stacks and rotations yields additional damage per rotation with synergy vs consume.
Parting blasphemy just doesnt scale well as 75% base weapon damage vs 15% damage to all attacks, procs and damage effects at higher power for me.
I even tried consume build with ve, hg, kf but still 33 magnitude short, lacks potential aoe for adds in boss fight and doesnt compensate with only 80k parting blasphemy damage per rotation, once si stacks accumulate the 15% generates more damage per rotation. If ve stacked si that would be a diffrent story.
Have you see the mess on the Wizards with miss placed skill, long cast speed, and horible 18s cooldown times? No, ofcorse you did not.
I can spam encounters every 5 sec on my wizard. If you don't believe me then i can record it on my xboxone and show it to you. Looks like you don't even know how to build a wizard properly yet you come here saying warlocks ( which you never played ) are same tier dps as the wizard lol.
> @bojsha said: > I cant go trough all the comment but did any of warlocks mention 20% more damage as target hp deminishes or the 10% increase damage when target(s) is affected by lesser curse wich is super easy to do and lastly 5% inc damage feat, its flat boost. So how in the world does a warlock need a buff, I think thats a bit to much buff especialy one tied to the HP, come on now, thats better then Orcus set, cut that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> down
I covered that feat above a few messages back. Even with all possible max warlock buffs and with creature almost dead for max damage increase, which takes about 90 seconds to achieve with uninterrupted combat, warlock is still 81.32 (4.4%) magnitude lower per rotation than wizards first rotation before any additional feats, smolder, chill, arcane stacks, etc. At first rotation warlock is only 45% magnitude of wizards per rotation.
A perfect execution of timing and max buffs achieved by a warlock cannot ever even come close to a properly run wizard, rogue, or ranger that has 20% less power even without combat advantage ever being achieved on those classes.
We should face it that the mod 16 Warlock remake was made by student workers. Now mod 17 is comming, no change/fix at all to the class, cuz they are on summer vacation and wont read/respond the feedbacks ...
Go for Wizard, in case you don´t want to tank, heal or main a TR allready. Best dps, best gameplay, best cc, most fun imo. All drop off, Hunter also. Warlock compared to Wizard: Slow, selfdestructive, buggy, contradictious, squishy, clumsy ... as you say a students work. * some of them do not respond even being not on vacation, some simply don´t communicate at all, never.
As the things stands, I would rather take a break from the game, then switch to any other class. I invested too much time and money into the Warlock. All the bounded mount+companion arsenal I collected. Or I should just accept and get used to it, that everytime a mod comes out, I won't be able to run the dungeon/trial part of it until another 5-6 months passes and I have OP gear from other sources for that content and finally I'll be able to enter and run it, while other classes farmed the HAMSTER out already.
Gotta admit i didn't read the whole post (apologize if I missed smth but it's too long for my brain ), but shouldn't steady buffs like Hellfire Expertise be taken into account in that chart?
Apply Soul Investiture to the Warlock and not the Soul Puppet to ensure the 25% buff is not lost when something the player cannot control gets killed.
The Warlock needs more ways to gain Soul Investiture other than Hadar's Grasp (19 sec cooldown) or Killing Flames (hoping the Warlock gets the Kill-Shot)
Warlock's Bargain should not cost Soul Sparks
I'm 100% with this. - For added SI stacking mechanics it has been written in several posts and meet overall agreement that SS should provide it if at full sparks (that would give meaning to both stacking full sparks and tab mechanic). - How to disagree about WB self inflicted dmg should reduce the spark cost, can't be in line with 100mag/spark from other spells. - About creeping death: its counterpart (EG) works at its best as single target feat -> need an AoE feat. I wold turn CD into a feat making CB a single 350mag charge and not removing curse, that would greatly help AoE burst, as allowing to slot a curse apply power only, like FB, on fast runs, instead of waiting about 1s to get HfR or AoH to be casted. (I see FB-BoVA-CB working great there). - About magnitudes: with the above changes implemented I only see HG, VE and eventually KF in need for an improvement, it's kinda odd watching 2xCB combo (AoE) at 300mag, FB at 125mag and then watching at HG (175-245) and VE (200) being that close or even lower. At last, I find the 50% difference stated above a bit too much (I'm playing with best PC wizards/rangers/rogues and they not are doubling me, and I'm nub) with M17 changes we probably still 25% far from top tier classes (aka rogue and wizards). Just hope devs will read feedback instead or going on their own, because it's on common agreement what's is really needed to make class perform in line with others.
I stated this in other threads and I'll state it here; the potential of some of the damage dealer classes were reduced when enemies health were reduce. The extra health would have provided some classes the extra time needed to ensure those classes can reach max damage potential. The devs update to enemies health hurt those classes damage output and it made older content easier than it was in prior mods do to how easy we can kill things now.
IMO the devs should remove scaling to all stats except power and go back and update the enemies health. This would help the game out IMO.
Comments
Thank you for pressing your points. Your posts encouraged me to try some things I had given up on. (I accidentally hit the wrong button trying to switch powers, blew 60 grand and had to reallocate all my points) so I figured I'd make the best of it. I went with Warlock's Curse, hellfire ring, blades, and killing flames. I do love the mobility of blades - being able to cast them while shadow slipping or just running, and if it's not giving me a little more dps than fiery bolt, it's close enough.
I'm curious how the dps compares to the curse bite build I was using. Sometimes I feel like I'm killing things faster, but some things like those bone golems in Throne take me longer to kill without curse bite for sure. Regardless, I'm having more fun this way.
I wonder if some of the trouble I have with arms is actually an issue with shadow slip. I used to be able to use that on the fly too, but now, unless I take the time to stop and square up with the enemy first, often they just pass harmlessly through.
I think if I was given a choice between letting shadow slip interrupt an encounter or waiting for the encounter to finish, I'd take the interruption. Getting caught flat-footed so often is jarring. The tactical move for all my other characters interrupts what they're doing for a quick save so it always catches me off guard when the warlock sticks.
Parting Blasphemy setup is like:
AOE ->FB, HFR, CB "Damn, I can´t run KF since I have to run 2 Aoe that curses+ CB, I have few options to Curse and recurse effectively, ACC is the only option... it takes to long in fast runs and I don´t want to switch powers between every fkn mobgroup.. AoH is wasted since positioning and casting takes too long, Hunter allready stole my dps
Boss->KF, HG... "The build works on bosses without adds (KF/HG/VE or CB).. but at Trobriand i must run KF, HG all time..so now what next to run for aoe/Cursconsume, CB? I have to curse every Scorp with At Wills by using ACC..that´s HAMSTER..anything else to use? FB/HFR/ etc. .. why did I build for curseconsumption ? "
Warlocks Curse setup is like:
AoE-> FB-KF-HFR "I don´t care about Curse consume-it´s sucks and destroys any dps and rotation. I pick NPNM and DtD, I don´t need ACC (sucks to be dependent on it tbh). I time my KF to call /buff puppet or stack RI here and there , same as my powers deal 10% plus damage, the outcome is ok, compareable to PB-setup and I have not that much stressy times"
Bosses-> KF-HG-HFR/FB "I again don´t care about cursing, Curses stay constant with few efforts, ACC again not needed. That feat is a burdon being mandatory for a fluent gameplay (for Curseconsum), I run DtD. My KF deals better dps alltime, who cares for that 75 mag from destroying and reapplying my HAMSTER Curses..:"
Sry, but the Curse consumption allways was an annoyance to me, and it got even worse in mod 16 to get it running, except on a single target/boss.
Sideeffect to "having more fun", the build does not worse than PB setup.
2 Curseconsumtion-powers in one rotation by using KF~500 + HG175 + VE200 +2xPB150=1025mag, agree HG has a bad CD, right, that´s minus on top.
No PB : KF~500+HG 175+ VE200=875+87(10%)=960 , my At Wills and my daily same as my Doohickey do 10% better on top, feels like PB is wasted to me tbh. even though this is something for a math student
That´s how it looks like starting ACT at 1. boss:
It's fine not to want to play with Curse Consume in general, but I haven't seen the same results you have without it. Curse Bite also has the advantage of building up to two charges on independent recharge timers, letting you situationally front-load your damage better.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I could run a puppet build for aoe with CB and there are occasion when mobs are not spread, where I can time my CB and do better, even without PB feated. The difference is marginal to me, since I run both setups. I hit my KF and call that puppet or buff it a bit.
Cursecunsume is a constant annoyance to me, being forced to switch and chose between powers and feature same as:
"Uuups i missed that Curse, my encounter is not willing to fire, damn, wait 2 seconds, next time maybe, damn now my RI stacks run out .. I am such a noob" -> simply stupid in the sum.
If you look up for ACT, the damage you deal with PB over a run is about 10%.
If you pick WC 10% and DtD 5% you reach similar results. There are enough damage sources that synergise with WC, same as feats.
I am pretty sure situation in mod 17 won´t improve for warlock. When VIP runs out I gonna stop playing, the game same as the company are as annoying as Curseconsume for a pretty long time now
I played Pally a lot pre M16 and that was always self interrupting if you tried to run a chain of powers into one another. Eventually you got used to waiting that extra split second for the first power to hit the "tick" that means its fired and past the point of interruption before rolling the next.
I watched last night to see if I was ever getting the issue with Arms, and sure enough I noticed that using it and then very quickly afterwards shadow slipping seemed to bugger up either one or the other. I'd either be unable to slip or the Power would cancel.
I took to holding the button a fraction longer before hitting the next move/power (I'm not talking seconds... just "pressing" rather than "tapping" if that makes sense?) and it seemed to deal with it.
By this, I mean the combination lock went from 64 bit encryption to rusty 4 digit a bike lock. Someone will get the analogy.
I also said, that both the warlock and the barbarian had their time. Now both have been hit hard enough by the nerf hammer to make us take notice. This game from the very onset has been "Hey players here is something new!" then months after everyone screams how over powered the new thing is, they nerf it into soup. The next cycle starts, "You nerfed that new thing just as we were getting use to using it!", cry the players. After that they either, eliminate the new thing claiming that it was botted or bugged, or they wreck something else to distract people from the new thing. Then the cycle repeats over long periods of time with different new and improved items.
A good example of this is, they upgraded professions (mod 15) and now they leave them to rot on the side, while distracting you with a new race. I bet someone at Cryptic thought no one would figure that one out. Down the road they will either remove professions because they are bugged or maybe they will just wreck something else to distract us from the workshop. Who knows? I am not holding my breath on them adding or improving recipes for us any time soon.
I have noticed the difference of both my warlock and barbarian. We should be able to play them with more than one or two select builds, but we cannot. The "go to site" for builds has only 1 warlock build for mod 16. MMOminds use to have a lot more but it looks like players are removing the old builds, which only makes sense. These new and improved characters lack the variable nature to have anything other than 1 or 2 good builds at best.
I'll have to take another look. Within combat, Arms didn't seem to be too bad, though it never did track moving enemies well - those Bone Golems come to mind again. Trying to slap them down as they crossed the map was always practically impossible for me.
Hey guys I dont play a warlock but I play with one of the most powerful ones from pre mod16.. I talked to Lassor from Cryptic and he says quote "there isnt anything wrong with it. People need to learn the mechanics"
It got pretty heated but that's that.
Clearly the devs need to play a competative match as a Warlock against some of the better players who will be using Wizards, Rangers etc.
Here's an example ....
Ranger has 25% buff just by being in Melee stance, their encounter power cooldowns can be reduced by 3 seconds when they cast an encounter power.
The Warlock has similar cooldowns to the Ranger, but only starts with a 5% DPS increase from a feat and 0.15% x 6 = 0.9% from the 6 soul sparks they start with. They can increase their DPS by 0.15% for every soul spark that they can generate and to reduce their cooldowns by 3 seconds they need to use 18 soulsparks.
Let's assume that the Warlock has full sparks (30) that's a self buff of (0.15 x 30 = 4.5%) plus their 5% from a feat, the Warlock has a self buff (at full sparks) of 9.5%; the Ranger has 25% just by being in Melee stance.
As the fight progresses, the Warlock wants to reduce their cooldowns, they cast Soul Scorch which deals some damage but costs them 18 sparks (0.15% x 18) 2.7% of their self buffs so that extra DPS power they have costs the Warlock on their encounters (or they have to At-Will to gain the sparks again).
The encounter magnitudes for the these two classes are miles apart in terms of what they can deliver, coupled with the low self-buffs the class cannot compete.
Cryptic may say that we just need to know the mechanics but we know the mechanics that's why we're raising how pitiful the DPS is for the Warlock, it's simply not competative.
If Cryptic are so sure of the Warlock then get them to use a Warlock and go into a DPS match against some of the top DPS players in the game and prove to us how viable it is.
Devs have ruined the warlock class tbh. The class is underpowered compared to other dps/support/heal classes.
Hellbringer is weak af, and soulweaver is HAMSTER !!! No one wants to have a soulweaver in their group anyway.
Templock was very fun to play with cuz it had nice dps and super healing.
The scaling makes it even worse. The dps is hamster and healing is a joke !!
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
All drop off, Hunter also.
Warlock compared to Wizard: Slow, selfdestructive, buggy, contradictious, squishy, clumsy ... as you say a students work.
* some of them do not respond even being not on vacation, some simply don´t communicate at all, never.
> theres nothing pitiful about warlock, cleric is pitiful
>
> You've clearly never played a DPS Warlock, prior to Mod 16, and compared that experience to DPS Warlock in Mod 16. As someone who has exclusively played a DPS Warlock, Warlock is dead last as a DPS class and is in a worse position than in Mod 15.
>
> you must not know how to play warlock, i pity you. but i run a 25k+ cleric and i know 2-3 22k warlocks who will do 2x my dps
Just maybe, you need to l2p your dc? If u have 25k+ gs on a dps there is prolly alot wrong
- though I wouldn't say no to a nerf. If there's reluctance to raise the warlock's magnitudes on par with the rest of the dps classes, that's fine. How about bringing the rest of the dps classes' magnitudes in line with the warlock's.
The main reason warlocks have a deficit in being competitive is that on average your loosing ri stacks and sparks to quickly. You can only usually get to 1 or 2 stacks of ri and get sparks maxed 1 or 2x in combat before it all drops off between hallways, phases, stuns, etc. Coupled with magnitudes. And extremely slow buff buildup. Only at full self buffs 25%ri 10% curse feat, 5%dtd, 4.5% max sparks for a total of 44.5% self buffs, are we even close to competitive with other dps classes at equivalent stats and gearing like cw, hr, tr.
Let's compare wizards and warlocks magnitudes.
Example being our at will hr does 30 (less with npnm) magnitude damage per second,
Cw rof has 250 to 140 magnitude per 1/2 second.
Cw can have 4 encounters 475 350 400 375 for 1600 magnitude per rotation with an instant 20% increase to damage to base magnitudes from roe increased by 250 for 1850 magnitude per rotation on encounters. Warlock is 400 255 175 for 820 encounter rotation up to 1020 when creature almost dead. Our personal buff fluctuates and takes up to 90 seconds to get full stacks of ri and sparks. Even at 44.5% additional damage to an almost dead creatures our max magnitude damage is 1473.9. With our feat for 20% additional damage as creature loses health our peak is damage 1768.68 at almost dead.
Add in wizard smoulder feat 75% damage (another 25% on crit) vs 25% warlock additional necrotic/fire, plus chill/arcane stacks and which further increases the dps gap.
In the end, even if we were capable of 100% full uptime of all possible self buff at max we still are at a deficit. Let alone starting at 45% damage a wizard has in first rotation going in before it's own stack mechanics accumulate.
Thats why warlocks of equal gear, stats and skill typically end runs with aprox 30% less damage on average. Warlock mechanics, feats, magnitudes, cast times and passives, are just really in a bad place this mod with out even getting into the soulweaver issues which are magnitudes worse than other healing classes.
Most warlocks I know have outright quit playing neverwinter or changed to another class if they could afford to build another character after spending upwards of 30m ad to rework and get endgame in mod 16 and find out how bad it really is.
Very disheartening to see and warlock class feedback ignored since preview and not even a word of possible improvements like what was announced after the owlbear cub nerf. At least back then devs acknowledged there was an issues and warlocks had some hope of improvement.
But hey, "Spiders should no longer all be the same size".
I did not even try to check Creeping death any more it as bugged since release.
There even is no At Will that deals any kind of acceptabale aoe, compared with scorching that bursts a hole group of mobs from proccing a passive, Warlock has to apply his at wills one by one on each target.
The healer part lost all it´s utility in lifesteal and mobility and all they left were "selfcutting mechanics" because the class has to "sacrifice a bit of his soul" but got nothing to compensate for it in exchange.
Oathkeeper can drop his 300k shield, Devout has strong HOT's.
Students work at best, someone mentioned.
I went over to build up my wizard, since warlock is somehow depressing, not exclusively in terms of dps but also and especially in terms of gameexperience, synergies and missing concepts.
It´s interesting to read comments, mostly from clueless "26k dudes", who got beaten by a lower performing and geared class, maybe warlocks or even a Pally.
I met a lot in random groups. Where their 26k CW deals 2/3 of my dps another Wizards or TR deals my dps x1.5 easily with IL 23k if correctly build.
They underperform significant, dealing 50% of what they should and rage against the obvious, amusing.
try curse synergy build using hfr, hg,kf in single target and fb, hfr, kf in aoe. My results have been with cooldown reductions it performs better.
The only time cb performs better with parting blasphemy for me is grouped up adds if 5 or more and long intermissions of 23 to 26 seconds between combat to get both cb charges back.
Parting blasphmeny with 2 initial pops and an average of 13 seconds for a reaplication, misfires, issues cursing targets outside 15' radius, other burst classes killing cursed creatures vs continuous 15% (10% curse feat and 5% dtd) additional damage to all cursed targets, faster si stacks from kf, and cooldown reduction on all attacks.
I also tried dtd on curse consume, but without acc to reliably apply curse in single target I get less damage from missed si stacks in single target, and aoe has slower si stacks.
In fights with back to back or contunuous combat and creatures with higher hp curse synergy nets me more damage. With kf i'm averaging and additional 45 to 60k each hit, plus additional 3 to 4k per at will, 15 to 20k per fb plus splash damage, 25 to 30k per add with hfr in aoe and 5k per tick of hg vs parting blasphemy getting 40k per add with 2x for 80k first rotation, then 13 seconds for each additional activation. Faster si stacks and rotations yields additional damage per rotation with synergy vs consume.
Parting blasphemy just doesnt scale well as 75% base weapon damage vs 15% damage to all attacks, procs and damage effects at higher power for me.
I even tried consume build with ve, hg, kf but still 33 magnitude short, lacks potential aoe for adds in boss fight and doesnt compensate with only 80k parting blasphemy
damage per rotation, once si stacks accumulate the 15% generates more damage per rotation. If ve stacked si that would be a diffrent story.
Looks like you don't even know how to build a wizard properly yet you come here saying warlocks ( which you never played ) are same tier dps as the wizard lol.
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
> I cant go trough all the comment but did any of warlocks mention 20% more damage as target hp deminishes or the 10% increase damage when target(s) is affected by lesser curse wich is super easy to do and lastly 5% inc damage feat, its flat boost. So how in the world does a warlock need a buff, I think thats a bit to much buff especialy one tied to the HP, come on now, thats better then Orcus set, cut that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> down
I covered that feat above a few messages back. Even with all possible max warlock buffs and with creature almost dead for max damage increase, which takes about 90 seconds to achieve with uninterrupted combat, warlock is still 81.32 (4.4%) magnitude lower per rotation than wizards first rotation before any additional feats, smolder, chill, arcane stacks, etc. At first rotation warlock is only 45% magnitude of wizards per rotation.
A perfect execution of timing and max buffs achieved by a warlock cannot ever even come close to a properly run wizard, rogue, or ranger that has 20% less power even without combat advantage ever being achieved on those classes.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246512/mod16-warlock-concerns
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246324/official-m16-warlock/p1
- For added SI stacking mechanics it has been written in several posts and meet overall agreement that SS should provide it if at full sparks (that would give meaning to both stacking full sparks and tab mechanic).
- How to disagree about WB self inflicted dmg should reduce the spark cost, can't be in line with 100mag/spark from other spells.
- About creeping death: its counterpart (EG) works at its best as single target feat -> need an AoE feat. I wold turn CD into a feat making CB a single 350mag charge and not removing curse, that would greatly help AoE burst, as allowing to slot a curse apply power only, like FB, on fast runs, instead of waiting about 1s to get HfR or AoH to be casted. (I see FB-BoVA-CB working great there).
- About magnitudes: with the above changes implemented I only see HG, VE and eventually KF in need for an improvement, it's kinda odd watching 2xCB combo (AoE) at 300mag, FB at 125mag and then watching at HG (175-245) and VE (200) being that close or even lower.
At last, I find the 50% difference stated above a bit too much (I'm playing with best PC wizards/rangers/rogues and they not are doubling me, and I'm nub) with M17 changes we probably still 25% far from top tier classes (aka rogue and wizards). Just hope devs will read feedback instead or going on their own, because it's on common agreement what's is really needed to make class perform in line with others.
IMO the devs should remove scaling to all stats except power and go back and update the enemies health. This would help the game out IMO.