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Solution to warlocks

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  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,780Member Arc User

    vorphied said:

    I did 2 lomm the other day with warlocks in my team, the first one had a 23k and a 24k warlock and by the end they did maybe 10% less damage then my cleric and within 1 mil of eachother.......the 2nd lomm I did was with a 22k warlock who had all the %dmg gear, he did about 10% more damage then my 25k cleric......should I cry that warlock is too high dps?

    Unless your Arbiter is exceptionally strong (which it may be, I don't know), the Warlocks are underperforming, especially the 23k and 24k examples.
    so you are saying that on avg a warlock should do more damage then a cleric with about the same gear and IL? item level is fairly easy to stack up now.....i am in a rank 10 guild so I get 750 less IL then people in maxed guilds and my cleric is 25,566 IL, she has 161k base power and 109k CA, all the other stats are overcap except deflect and awareness.....as far as exceptionally strong then the answer is definately no. It amazes me any time I top the paingiver chart.
    The problem with discussing Arbiter is that so few players are dedicated to learning it and making it perform well. I wanted to be one of those players, but I wasn't as keen on the playstyle once it hit live and am definitely not practiced in it.

    I can truthfully say that I haven't seen an Arbiter come close to my Warlock's damage, but on the other hand I can't claim to have played with dozens of end-game Arbiters, and my own Arbiter is not optimized for DPS and not played enough.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,135Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    How to fix Warlocks: Delete them and every DPS class that isn't top 3 for the module.

    Can't have any problem with low Warlock DPS if they don't exist.

    :trollface:


    You should do your SJW somewhere else considering that rogues have always been the loudest QQers. And curiously they are in good place ...

    sorry to disappoint you, but wizards are top tear for a reason....
    vorphied said:


    It just comes down to which classes had the most vocal qq on the forums during the Mod 16 preview.

    Fixed that for you.

  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,292Member Arc User
    edited July 2019

    I did 2 lomm the other day with warlocks in my team, the first one had a 23k and a 24k warlock and by the end they did maybe 10% less damage then my cleric and within 1 mil of eachother.......the 2nd lomm I did was with a 22k warlock who had all the %dmg gear, he did about 10% more damage then my 25k cleric......should I cry that warlock is too high dps?

    No, you should improve your playstyle and gear (IL is from zero interest) and maybe do one or two runs with your ingame frined Freya Odinsdottir, as you allready promised :)
    Anyway, numbers are pretty subjective .
    I met 24k warlocks that dealt 50% of my dps, even running 180k power, a short inspection of the char and you know what misses.
    vorphied said:

    I did 2 lomm the other day with warlocks in my team, the first one had a 23k and a 24k warlock and by the end they did maybe 10% less damage then my cleric and within 1 mil of eachother.......the 2nd lomm I did was with a 22k warlock who had all the %dmg gear, he did about 10% more damage then my 25k cleric......should I cry that warlock is too high dps?

    Unless your Arbiter is exceptionally strong (which it may be, I don't know), the Warlocks are underperforming, especially the 23k and 24k examples.
    How can anyone judge the Arbiter if there are none and the ones that run dps started doing so in mod 16 and miss knowledge same as positioning (to have constant CA) same as needed gear to some degree?
    During the last years I met... 2 or 3 dps DC, in mod 16 I met one, and that one was a know player, doing pretty good through all the years. He was in a good spot in terms of dps and by far not inferior to a warlock.
    So when he get´s his Arbiter to good dps, the rest seems in need to catch up imo.
    >99% of all DC´s never played that class as a pure dps, for sure there is a wide gap between someone that takes his first steps or simply favours the healing loadout 90% of the time over the dps spec and someone that played a dps DC consequentely all through the years. When you meet a good one you definitely know that the class is not underpowered.


    I did not recognize more qq in TR's or esp CW's preview dicussionscompared to warlocks, honestly I feel like doing my best...
    Warlocks seem to be an unknow species to most devs and that's why they can´t understand the crying or what misses. There is obviously zero perception, concernig all those bugs and crappy powers, maybe we need a translator. :)
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,780Member Arc User


    How can anyone judge the Arbiter if there are none and the ones that run dps started doing so in mod 16 and miss knowledge same as positioning (to have constant CA) same as needed gear to some degree?

    While I mentioned that I'm not acquainted with many other Arbiters, I have played with a few who knew what they were doing, built for DPS, and definitely knew how CA worked, etc. I don't consider it enough of a representative sample to make sweeping judgments on the class' effectiveness, but I can only report based on my personal experience thus far.

    When I played as Arbiter I probably spent too much time maximizing my pips during trash segments, but even so the LoMM runs were fine. I stopped playing Cleric as Arbiter early on because I didn't care for the slow feel of the gameplay and realized I was having more fun on Warlock and Wizard.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Posts: 1,621Member Arc User

    they use every and any exploit they can. something about rogue using hateful knives during first dps check "forces" CA on the boss for the entire fight......how is this legit beating it? in my opinion this is cheating. Also sharps wizard is not arcanist, so he doesn't have spell twisting, how is it his encounter cooldowns go from 11 seconds to 5 instantly? everyone using calvary tyrannosaur and griffon all coordinated, thats not skill, thats just elites being elite with gear the other 99% of us could only dream of having, seeing this sends a clear message "if you want to beat this dungeon be prepared to pay $$$"

    Are you really calling using feats that speed up cooldowns and power effects that grant combat advantage "exploits" now? I mean, it's literally part of the tooltip description. And arguing that endgame players are using mounts making them elitists?

    None of the mounts/items you mention is what makes them elite.

    You can pull together 10 people, give them all the right gear and mounts, and let them have a go at TOMM. If they still don't know what they're doing they'll probably fail.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Posts: 117Member Arc User
    > @rjc9000 said:
    > How to fix Warlocks: Delete them and every DPS class that isn't top 3 for the module.
    >
    > Can't have any problem with low Warlock DPS if they don't exist.
    >
    > :trollface:

    Actually i feel warlock as top 3, issue is maybe on 1-2 tier to be way higher. from 3rd to below not such a big difference (not counting fighter as not a dps class atm :trollface: )
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Posts: 223Member Arc User

    Are you warlock players like the Barbarian players... think you are all that good and then you get destroyed because you dont know how to play them... now with that said warlocks are fine. Maybe they arent Best at DPS but if they make you Best in DPS then another class will complain because all ANYONE does is chase the leader board . I run with someone who has mained a warlock for 2 years . He runs LOMM sometimes 1st sometimes 2nd hes putting up 70 million in LOMM so if that isnt good enough for you maybe it's time to play something else. Overpowers are gone people NEED to learn the mechanics of their character and HOW to play and stop copying builds that dont work. Does it matter really as long as you finish the dungeon . Again Learn a the mechanics learn what feats go with what power learn your rotation and you will be just fine and one of the Devs plays a warlock and knows this so I dont see a change coming at all.



    Now go ahead start saying I'm wrong or whatever but it's TRUE and anyone alot will agree especially the ones that KNOW how to play a warlock.

    YAY!! another idiot who tells me i dont know how to play my class




    You know what the problem is? that 80% of the powers don't serve for any use, there are no mechanics, no rotations. Random op use it badly and make less damage than the tank. I do carry people as you see (i bet your build is bad and got carried by one too), when it comes to equally geared parties the warlock stand behind.
    Pvp on warlock now is resumed to being a healing potion with legs (you can see that most of the good pvp warlocks have left the game)
    Keep saying that everything is ok when you see warlocks disappearing everyday
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,780Member Arc User

    Are you warlock players like the Barbarian players... think you are all that good and then you get destroyed because you dont know how to play them... now with that said warlocks are fine. Maybe they arent Best at DPS but if they make you Best in DPS then another class will complain because all ANYONE does is chase the leader board . I run with someone who has mained a warlock for 2 years . He runs LOMM sometimes 1st sometimes 2nd hes putting up 70 million in LOMM so if that isnt good enough for you maybe it's time to play something else. Overpowers are gone people NEED to learn the mechanics of their character and HOW to play and stop copying builds that dont work. Does it matter really as long as you finish the dungeon . Again Learn a the mechanics learn what feats go with what power learn your rotation and you will be just fine and one of the Devs plays a warlock and knows this so I dont see a change coming at all.



    Now go ahead start saying I'm wrong or whatever but it's TRUE and anyone alot will agree especially the ones that KNOW how to play a warlock.

    YAY!! another idiot who tells me i dont know how to play my class




    You know what the problem is? that 80% of the powers don't serve for any use, there are no mechanics, no rotations. Random op use it badly and make less damage than the tank. I do carry people as you see (i bet your build is bad and got carried by one too), when it comes to equally geared parties the warlock stand behind.
    Pvp on warlock now is resumed to being a healing potion with legs (you can see that most of the good pvp warlocks have left the game)
    Keep saying that everything is ok when you see warlocks disappearing everyday

    I'm not sure why you're attaching these screenshots. Warlock isn't the top DPS class at the moment and has opportunity to improve, especially from a QoL perspective, but all we're seeing here is that you did decently in fairly long LoMM runs vs. bad-to-mediocre DPS of other classes. It's not really supporting what your point seems to be.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH
    The Forgotten Company Alliance
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Posts: 117Member Arc User
    won't use a 32min run as a skill proof tho. a warlock as main dps can surely pull a way better performance but means nothing, AoE burst is close to best classes because of npnm only, even movement speed is meh because of gladiator guile bugged (at least on my char lol). on ST we can wide the gap in a short time window with combos like TC+2xCB+KF but on longer fights we gotta stick to encounter like HG and its AoE-ish magnitude, casting times makes rotation as clunky as hell and spark generation relies on AoE skills like HfR and BoVA, with subsequent low magnitude and targeting/positioning issues, and atwills.
    It's fine having to struggle to perform close to other classes, having party members watching you like you were a dodo (during M13-14 it was even funnier) is kinda rewarding but QoL changes are always needed because a bit of a lag can screw the whole rotation + balance is needed asap because in new trial we can cover the second healer spot only we got to challenge with clerics and this way getting a spot will be a pain.
  • finalfantasyac7finalfantasyac7 Posts: 575Member Arc User

    Are you warlock players like the Barbarian players... think you are all that good and then you get destroyed because you dont know how to play them... now with that said warlocks are fine. Maybe they arent Best at DPS but if they make you Best in DPS then another class will complain because all ANYONE does is chase the leader board . I run with someone who has mained a warlock for 2 years . He runs LOMM sometimes 1st sometimes 2nd hes putting up 70 million in LOMM so if that isnt good enough for you maybe it's time to play something else. Overpowers are gone people NEED to learn the mechanics of their character and HOW to play and stop copying builds that dont work. Does it matter really as long as you finish the dungeon . Again Learn a the mechanics learn what feats go with what power learn your rotation and you will be just fine and one of the Devs plays a warlock and knows this so I dont see a change coming at all.



    Now go ahead start saying I'm wrong or whatever but it's TRUE and anyone alot will agree especially the ones that KNOW how to play a warlock.

    You don't have a warlock nor have ever played one, so please go troll somewhere else lol.
    Also, fyi, devs do not play their own game cuz if they did... many players wouldn't quit the game.
    Warlock- Lv80. || Rogue - Lv80. || Wizard - Lv80. || Paladin - Lv80. || Cleric - Lv80. || Ranger - Lv70. || Barbarian - Lv70. || Fighter - Lv70.

    ¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨

  • martins#2911 martins Posts: 51Member Arc User
    time is very high there in Lomm
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Posts: 223Member Arc User
    vorphied said:

    Are you warlock players like the Barbarian players... think you are all that good and then you get destroyed because you dont know how to play them... now with that said warlocks are fine. Maybe they arent Best at DPS but if they make you Best in DPS then another class will complain because all ANYONE does is chase the leader board . I run with someone who has mained a warlock for 2 years . He runs LOMM sometimes 1st sometimes 2nd hes putting up 70 million in LOMM so if that isnt good enough for you maybe it's time to play something else. Overpowers are gone people NEED to learn the mechanics of their character and HOW to play and stop copying builds that dont work. Does it matter really as long as you finish the dungeon . Again Learn a the mechanics learn what feats go with what power learn your rotation and you will be just fine and one of the Devs plays a warlock and knows this so I dont see a change coming at all.



    Now go ahead start saying I'm wrong or whatever but it's TRUE and anyone alot will agree especially the ones that KNOW how to play a warlock.

    YAY!! another idiot who tells me i dont know how to play my class




    You know what the problem is? that 80% of the powers don't serve for any use, there are no mechanics, no rotations. Random op use it badly and make less damage than the tank. I do carry people as you see (i bet your build is bad and got carried by one too), when it comes to equally geared parties the warlock stand behind.
    Pvp on warlock now is resumed to being a healing potion with legs (you can see that most of the good pvp warlocks have left the game)
    Keep saying that everything is ok when you see warlocks disappearing everyday

    I'm not sure why you're attaching these screenshots. Warlock isn't the top DPS class at the moment and has opportunity to improve, especially from a QoL perspective, but all we're seeing here is that you did decently in fairly long LoMM runs vs. bad-to-mediocre DPS of other classes. It's not really supporting what your point seems to be.
    That was to show that guy that i know how to use my warlock and i know what is wrong with it. That im not making this post for crying
  • martins#2911 martins Posts: 51Member Arc User
    @gonzakotwi

    No one is crying just saying what is this below the other DPS.

    Your party can't compare, because the normal time is 18 to 23 a good time, you can see that it has many deaths and probably owes a lot of wipe!

    You can also see that you use a class feat [No Pity, No Mercy]
    which works with [Hellish Rebuke], but you use [Eldritch Blast]. realize that something is wrong there.

    Yes need to re-work the SW
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Posts: 223Member Arc User
    edited July 2019


    i see envenomed storyteller journal and doohickey, and you have resurrection sickness in 2/3 of the screenshots.....very telling indeed

    If you want we can go on a run together, if not shut up.

    @gonzakotwi

    No one is crying just saying what is this below the other DPS.

    Your party can't compare, because the normal time is 18 to 23 a good time, you can see that it has many deaths and probably owes a lot of wipe!

    You can also see that you use a class feat [No Pity, No Mercy]
    which works with [Hellish Rebuke], but you use [Eldritch Blast]. realize that something is wrong there.

    Yes need to re-work the SW

    I know it needs rework, but these a-holes (like this guy @xboxrules#4261 above) come here saying that it is a matter of bad playstyle. What i want to show in those runs is that i know how to play it and i can carry people like their friends who do 70m. I can do 20min runs with other 2 competent dpsers, and in those runs is where the warlock stands behind as i stated above.

    PS> npnm is for constant ca (don't matter with which power, any critical will give ca), eb is for faster placing of curse. At wills dont stand for even 10% of dmg (except dark spiral). I need a faster curse placer and hr has that underperforming clunky animation

    And its not "my party" those pics are from req solo queue
  • martins#2911 martins Posts: 51Member Arc User
    @gonzakotwi
    I apologize I interpreted it wrong! I thought you were saying we were crying about SW!

    People who say that SW is very good and that we don't know how to play are probably from another class!
  • luthor#3134 luthor Posts: 30Member Arc User
    edited July 2019
    I haven't played other Classes that much, but I have played SW for a while now and I admit, that the mechanics of warlock is really kind of broken.
    There are people out there on forums, youtube and ingame, who share the same opinions about the broken warlock. Well Warlock is known for hybrid class, that exceeds in no area, neither dps or heal.

    I start off with some Confusions in Warlock mechanics and description:

    1. The Soul spark & Soul scorch mechanics are kinda confusing, as you don't know whether you should equip Soul Spark in order to get more dmg or not. It apparently does, but it sparks confusion for new players. So you do can have soul scorch equipped, while having Soul spark mechanic active. Suggestion: Seperating Soul spark and soul scorch, would give players less confusion and more viable options. The soul scorch does very little damage in endgame content. It does minor AOE, but it is not noticeable. You could make soul scorch a AOE debuff power instead. Since the Warlock doesn't have much. As for Soul Spark the healing here is not really needed, since you got healers most of the time. For dps, you could either focus on pure dps build up or synergies with encounter powers.

    2. At Will Powers: Hellish Rebuke, Hand of blight etc.
    I feel like there aren't enough viable options for dps builds. 9 out of 10 times people are running the Hellish rebuke-no pity no mery-dust to dust build. Other builds are outshadowed. Because most of the guides leads to this build. So SW players are stuck to that same build and it eventually gets boring over time. Suggestion: I find a melee SW a hell ton of fun to play and it is a completely different warlock play-style as in most mmo's. Making Hand of blight abit more attractive would make him more versatile. Since warlock doesn't really take alot of punches upfront in melee like Tanks and other classes, you could switch the ranged and melee dmg of Hand blight. So instead of 25 (magnitude) melee and 35 ranged, make it 35 or 40 melee and 25 ranged. It is already punishing for warlock closing in enemies in melee and giving up save distance. The enemy dmg debuff is ok, 6% makes it even more attractive, but 4% is still ok. But what makes hand of blight in melee more fun is the speedy fast attacks and its animation is really pleasurable to watch. So please do not make changes to attack speed. Hand of blight with All-Curse consume and Deadly curse is a fun way to play, but in terms of dps it gets outshadowed by other builds and classes. so my SW applies for every fast attack, lesser curse to enemies and deals 25 magnitude dmg for each apply. Another suggestion, you could remove All-curse-consume and add it into hand of "blight". So hand of blight now also adds lesser curse on each hit.

    3. Double scorch and power of the nine hells
    As for soul scorched I already mentioned above. So both feat in this section doesn't really make a huge impact in dmg overall. 12 sparks instant gain isn't noticeable as full sparks only increase up to 4,5%. Suggestion: Power of the nine hells: reduces cooldowns of encounters by 8-10%.
    Double scorch: increase or add more debuff to applied enemies or spawn minions for every kill

    4. Creeping death and Executioners gift: This has been changed and balanced a few times. Maybe just add for executioners gift some numbers, like more dmg below "50%" instead of diminishing health. As for creeping death. I tested it out and it does 70-80 overall dmg on targets and when deflected even less, which renders it useless. A possible way to make creeping death great again is to synergies it with soul puppet, give him a new ability. if it's time consuming to script than just adjust the numbers ;)

    5. Dailies
    Most of the time Players are running the first 3 basic dailies (without paragon dailies). I feel like the paragon dailies aren't nearly attractive as the standard dailies. Gates of hell is nice in pvp, but takes a long time to cast and sometimes hits in random direction. Flame of Phlegethos is ok, not great, but just ok. maybe add some Cool permanent summonings for warlocks. Since he is sort of summoner / necromancer. Also I'd like to mention there aren't any (permanent minions summoner) necromancers ingames like in most mmo's, it is demanding though ;) just a hint!
    If you google for demanding necromancers in mmo's these days, you will find alot of people demanding it. alot of necromancers either do not summon any minions or just temporary ones, but i will cover this up in another post.

    bonus: Infernal spheres could need some more love, but it is great as passive dmg dealer, aoe, and defense increase.

    6. There are few general skills that are sort of squishy, but i will leave as it is :)


    Thank you for your time reading it!
    Post edited by luthor#3134 on
  • giz#2086 giz Posts: 165Member Arc User
    Warlock isn't a DPS class at all, so it's expected to be pretty low compared with wiz, rogue and ranger. Devs class balance was a buff for DPS/DPS classes, they want this new system. I agree that in the current state, Warlock are only a second, third tier class. A lot of warlock players are building a wizard now, lot of us don't want to play other class (i tried wiz and ranger and unfortunately i only like warlock) but is annoying and disgusting to play a game where devs are laughing at your problems, they are aware of our frustration, and we're ignored for mod 17 (i'm hopeless about a DPS rework for us) Another mod begging for runs, and seeing PM saying: Sorry, no SWs.
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Posts: 275Member Arc User
    As others have said, the biggest issue for the warlock is the extremely narrow path for generating DPS. I don't like it myself, so I don't bother. But the issue isn't that the warlock can't DPS. The class gets heavily punished for not following that narrow DPS pathway. The total opposite of what one of the goals of Mod 16 was stated as being.

    Other classes have feat choices that are bad but I don't know if they destroy DPS as much as the warlocks bad feat choices do.

    Main: Angels Scar
    Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
  • fyrstigorfyrstigor Posts: 281Member Arc User

    As others have said, the biggest issue for the warlock is the extremely narrow path for generating DPS. I don't like it myself, so I don't bother. But the issue isn't that the warlock can't DPS. The class gets heavily punished for not following that narrow DPS pathway. The total opposite of what one of the goals of Mod 16 was stated as being.

    Other classes have feat choices that are bad but I don't know if they destroy DPS as much as the warlocks bad feat choices do.

    Its the same for all classes. If u want to compete and do DPS u only have 1 way to go.
  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Posts: 734Member Arc User


    2. At Will Powers: Hellish Rebuke, Hand of blight etc.
    I feel like there aren't enough viable options for dps builds. 9 out of 10 times people are running the Hellish rebuke-no pity no mery-dust to dust build... I find a melee SW a hell ton of fun to play... Making Hand of blight abit more attractive would make him more versatile...

    Thanks for this. I love Hand of Blight even though it's been sadly neglected. I've never understood the fascination the developer has with HR - it's such a dull at-will.

    Changes I'd love to see:

    Hand of Blight: Remove the long-ranged attack. It's redundant and unnecessary.
    Using it at mid-range pulls the warlock toward the target.

    Eldritch Blast: Always aoe, but the third blast still does increased damage.

    Hellish Rebuke: For sanity's sake - change the sound effect! I find it unbearable.

    No Pity, No Mercy: If a lackluster at-will like Hellish Rebuke gets its own feat, the others should too.
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