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OFFICIAL M17: Tower of the Mad Mage Feedback

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  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,135Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    thestia said:

    I was unable to use reroll tokens or AD to reroll the rewards chests in ToMM. Considering the enormous loot table, I hope this gets fixed before it hits live!

    Considering how 99.98% of most teams won't stand a chance, maybe the reward in itself should just be winning.

    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.

    >:3


    You trying bring DPS GF's on your run, and tell me how that makes the DPS Checks :P

    All things aside, no I couldn't beat it, at least not yet, and I'm fine with that - gives me something to work towards.

    I was willing to try my "deeps" goofy fighter in the backpack role with the Edgelord's team, but for some reason the group leader wouldn't start unless I played tank...

  • manjusriyamantakmanjusriyamantak Posts: 229Member Arc User
    People will be forever confusing “TOMM” and “LOMM” in “lfm” calls. Consider using a different name. “Mad Mage’s Tower” (MMT) would suffice… or “Halaster’s Tower” (HT) … etc.
    Take my advice. I'm not using it.
  • agilestoagilesto Posts: 513Member Arc User
    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
  • manjusriyamantakmanjusriyamantak Posts: 229Member Arc User
    So let me see if I have this straight. At peak times, we have maybe ~17 instances of Lair of the MM going, though often it’s 4-8 or so. That’s a 20k IL limit, it requires 5 people, and often the wait is ~20 minutes for a Healer to show up(*). So that’s at most 85 and more often 20-40 players running LOMM at any given time.

    [(*) Maybe it would be better if Warlock/Soulweavers could be effective in LOMM, but I digress….]

    Now you want to make a “trial” that requires 10 people – including 2 tanks and 2 healers – and a 24k IL limit. Yes, you’re giving out new gear, but my rough guess is that only the people at about 22.5k now will be able to /just make/ the 24k limit, and it will probably realistically require a group of more like ~26k ‘toons to successfully finish.

    So let’s say, generously, that 2/3rds of the people who currently run LOMM at any given time will be capable of running TOMM. That gives at most ~55 players, and more often ~13-26 players. Since this “trial” requires 10 people, that means you’ll have, maybe, 5 instances running at peak times, and more likely 1-2 going most of the time. And if we had to wait 20 minutes for a healer before, it will be more like *an hour* wait for 2 healers (of the remaining players who can make the IL) before a queue will pop.

    Even the most dedicated dps probably isn’t going to want to wait that long, so the number of players will be reduced even further.

    Yes, in two mods everyone will be able to steamroll this whatever it is, but for now, effectively no one (and certainly no one who matters – i.e., the normal rank-and-file players) will be able to actually participate in it.

    You keep saying that making new content is important for player retention and keeping the playerbase excited. This may technically be new content, but for all practical purposes, it may as well not exist.

    So can I ask…. What are you thinking???
    Take my advice. I'm not using it.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,135Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.

  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 5,045Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    The new penalties for resurrection sickness pretty much do that already.
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Posts: 2,135Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    The new penalties for resurrection sickness pretty much do that already.
    Delete them from the game anyways so you won't have some people (coughcoughwolforcoughcough) chasing top spot on epeen chart rather than helping their teammates.

    and so you can enjoy corpse jumping because self revives are limited to soulforged :trollface:

  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 5,045Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    The magnetic chains are invisible for me, regardless of the graphics settings I use.

    I feel like phase 2 needs twice as many hitpoints, it dies too quickly:


    I think the bosses damage can be increased by 20-30%.
    I also think that magnetic chains should take 50% longer to expire.

    Some skills are critting regardless of a player's critical avoidance (this player is capped at 81.5k critical avoidance)

    Post edited by thefabricant on
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 642Member Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 5,045Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    Bug: Sometimes during the sunfall phase you die immediately without the phase finishing. As you can see in the video and pictures below, no damage occurs and the player instantly dies.
    https://clips.twitch.tv/BovineAuspiciousCardPanicVis


  • greyjay1greyjay1 Posts: 160Member Arc User
    Bug: Permafrost
    After getting caught in Permafrost the player will lose the +%Outgoing Healing bonus from his slotted companions, this way a healer will lose +40%/+50% which is a lot!


    The player will lose the stats from his summoned companion as well, but he'll get them back after ~2 seconds. He will not get the healing bonus back, from what I have seen so far. I think the only way to get the healing bonus back is to swap every single +%Outgoing Healing companion out and back in again.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 3,098Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
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  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 5,045Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 5,045Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    I think Sunfall should not critically hit. Having 4-5 important party members critically hit is an automatic failure and there is nothing a party can do about it.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 5,045Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    Can you please increase the duration of ground to cloud a *little* bit (not back to its original duration, that was too long). There is too little time to react to it for players with higher latency.

    Also, the duration of the magnet phase is now too long, somewhere between the old time and the current time is the Goldilocks zone.

    Finally, I do not think that Heatwave should be a part of the bosses rotation in his last 15% hitpoints. Heatwave into Sunfall is an automatic failure.
    Post edited by thefabricant on
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Posts: 784Member Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    I'm hoping for perma-death.
    You die, your character gets deleted.
    That would be super kewl, and I could brag for all those 10 people that might still care at that point, that I, Me, Me, MEEEE!!! have conquered the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶L̶a̶i̶r̶, I mean Tower of the Mad Mage...

    In all seriousness, if only the top 20 players can finish the new dungeon that your developers have spent a ton of hours working on, that would be a MASSIVE failure, and someone would get fired instantly if it was my company.

    However, a Master and a regular version, like the Svardborg Assault, would be a lot better.

    Also, MSVA was considered hard to get the no-death banner from at its launch, so maybe use that (realitve) difficulty to start tuning up for the Master version.
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 859Member Arc User

    hustin1 said:

    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    I'm hoping for perma-death.
    You die, your character gets deleted.
    That would be super kewl, and I could brag for all those 10 people that might still care at that point, that I, Me, Me, MEEEE!!! have conquered the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶L̶a̶i̶r̶, I mean Tower of the Mad Mage...

    In all seriousness, if only the top 20 players can finish the new dungeon that your developers have spent a ton of hours working on, that would be a MASSIVE failure, and someone would get fired instantly if it was my company.

    However, a Master and a regular version, like the Svardborg Assault, would be a lot better.

    Also, MSVA was considered hard to get the no-death banner from at its launch, so maybe use that (realitve) difficulty to start tuning up for the Master version.
    so by your logic releasing a dungeon for level 1 characters would be the ultimate success? I mean literally everyone would be able to finish it right?
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Posts: 784Member Arc User
    edited July 2019
    tom#6998 said:

    hustin1 said:

    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    I'm hoping for perma-death.
    You die, your character gets deleted.
    That would be super kewl, and I could brag for all those 10 people that might still care at that point, that I, Me, Me, MEEEE!!! have conquered the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶L̶a̶i̶r̶, I mean Tower of the Mad Mage...

    In all seriousness, if only the top 20 players can finish the new dungeon that your developers have spent a ton of hours working on, that would be a MASSIVE failure, and someone would get fired instantly if it was my company.

    However, a Master and a regular version, like the Svardborg Assault, would be a lot better.

    Also, MSVA was considered hard to get the no-death banner from at its launch, so maybe use that (realitve) difficulty to start tuning up for the Master version.
    so by your logic releasing a dungeon for level 1 characters would be the ultimate success? I mean literally everyone would be able to finish it right?
    You didn't really read what I wrote, right?
    What does that last sentence I wrote say?
    But you maybe cleared the MSVA Banner run on a level 1 character, what do I know...
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Posts: 1,263Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited July 2019
    But he does have 1 valid point, if only less than 10% of the playerbase can or will ever be able to complete the trial, was that a good use of the development time to create the content? Or would it have been better served to create content that more than 50% of the playerbase will complete? It all comes down to what their "end-game"/bottom line is, I guess.
  • kiraskytowerkiraskytower Posts: 434Member Arc User

    But he does have 1 valid point, if only less than 10% of the playerbase can or will ever be able to complete the trial, was that a good use of the development time to create the content? Or would it have been better served to create content that more than 50% of the playerbase will complete? It all comes down to what their "end-game"/bottom line is, I guess.

    Maybe this mod 10% can complete it ... but in Mod 18 maybe more can .. and so on and so forth. When TONG first came out relatively few could do it ... now pretty much everyone can. That's how these things go.
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  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 3,098Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    ToNG came out before scaling. That changes everything, now. You won't be able to rely on power creep to carry you through it a mod or two from now, as with ToNG. Wherever the devs set the arbitrary IL cap will determine how difficult it is pretty much for all time.

    I don't think the devs will listen, but they should release this as nToMM and eToMM.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
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    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • vorphiedvorphied Posts: 1,780Member Arc User
    > @hustin1 said:
    > ToNG came out before scaling. That changes everything, now. You won't be able to rely on power creep to carry you through it a mod or two from now, as with ToNG. Wherever the devs set the arbitrary IL cap will determine how difficult it is pretty much for all time.
    >
    > I don't think the devs will listen, but they should release this as nToMM and eToMM.

    Tong is scaled because it’s a lvl 70 dungeon. It’s unlikely that lvl 80 dungeons will be scaled anytime soon, and possibly not until the next level cap increase.
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  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 642Member Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    I think you misunderstood me.

    Scrolls of life used to be a last resort option. Then cradle of the death god and castle ravenloft came in where people died all the time for no reason and completing them was impossible without heavy use of scrolls. I hated that.

    The new revive sickness sort of fixed this issue but some people still think that scrolls of life should be used whenever you die and won't even try reviving their team-mates even when they have plenty of time to do so.

    So I'd rather have the scrolls be removed so that people have to use the revive mechanic instead.
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 859Member Arc User
    > @mightyeriksson said:
    > Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    > >:3
    >
    >
    > Excuse me what?
    >
    >
    > They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    >
    > That would be such a great change.
    >
    > I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    >
    > And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!
    >
    > I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    >
    > I'm hoping for perma-death.
    > You die, your character gets deleted.
    > That would be super kewl, and I could brag for all those 10 people that might still care at that point, that I, Me, Me, MEEEE!!! have conquered the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶L̶a̶i̶r̶, I mean Tower of the Mad Mage...
    >
    > In all seriousness, if only the top 20 players can finish the new dungeon that your developers have spent a ton of hours working on, that would be a MASSIVE failure, and someone would get fired instantly if it was my company.
    >
    > However, a Master and a regular version, like the Svardborg Assault, would be a lot better.
    >
    > Also, MSVA was considered hard to get the no-death banner from at its launch, so maybe use that (realitve) difficulty to start tuning up for the Master version.
    >
    > so by your logic releasing a dungeon for level 1 characters would be the ultimate success? I mean literally everyone would be able to finish it right?
    >
    >
    > You didn't really read what I wrote, right?
    > What does that last sentence I wrote say?
    > But you maybe cleared the MSVA Banner run on a level 1 character, what do I know...

    Its content for people to work towards! Its actually a good thing that only a few people can complete it atm. It would be even better if noone could atm. 3 days to figure out the hardest content in the game isnt long tbh. So the argument, its only good content when most of the players can do it is imo <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.

    I would be ok with a "normal" version of the community wants that, but the chance they will add it now, when the release is alrdy pretty close is close to 0%.
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Posts: 784Member Arc User

    tom#6998 said:

    hustin1 said:

    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    I'm hoping for perma-death.
    You die, your character gets deleted.
    That would be super kewl, and I could brag for all those 10 people that might still care at that point, that I, Me, Me, MEEEE!!! have conquered the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶L̶a̶i̶r̶, I mean Tower of the Mad Mage...

    In all seriousness, if only the top 20 players can finish the new dungeon that your developers have spent a ton of hours working on, that would be a MASSIVE failure, and someone would get fired instantly if it was my company.

    However, a Master and a regular version, like the Svardborg Assault, would be a lot better.

    Also, MSVA was considered hard to get the no-death banner from at its launch, so maybe use that (realitve) difficulty to start tuning up for the Master version.
    so by your logic releasing a dungeon for level 1 characters would be the ultimate success? I mean literally everyone would be able to finish it right?
    You didn't really read what I wrote, right?
    What does that last sentence I wrote say?
    But you maybe cleared the MSVA Banner run on a level 1 character, what do I know...
    A lot of games design content explicitly around the 0.1%. WoW does it, Path of Exile does it. In a recent dev post in Path of Exile they explicitly said they spent around 30% of their development time designing content that only 0.1% of their player base ever sees due to how hard it is. Both of these games are significantly more successful than NW is, so it seems to be a working model. Believe it or not, if you give people something to work towards, they have a stronger incentive to play.
    Oh I am all for it being really, really h̶a̶r̶d̶ difficult.
    But imho, it needs to be achieveable for (experienced) players juuust under BiS in less than two months, otherwise it will draw too much complaints, and it then it will (probably) be reduced to a difficulty that is below where it should be at.

    Also, rewards should be an incentive, and since I doubt anything of AD value will be sellable from the trial, I'm hoping for something of real use, or nice, exclusive transmutes.

    To sum it up, it would be great for the community with an easier version, and for the Epic, take Sharps ideal version of the trial, dial it back 5-10%, and it will be in the sweet spot... :smile:
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 859Member Arc User

    tom#6998 said:

    hustin1 said:

    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    I'm hoping for perma-death.
    You die, your character gets deleted.
    That would be super kewl, and I could brag for all those 10 people that might still care at that point, that I, Me, Me, MEEEE!!! have conquered the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶L̶a̶i̶r̶, I mean Tower of the Mad Mage...

    In all seriousness, if only the top 20 players can finish the new dungeon that your developers have spent a ton of hours working on, that would be a MASSIVE failure, and someone would get fired instantly if it was my company.

    However, a Master and a regular version, like the Svardborg Assault, would be a lot better.

    Also, MSVA was considered hard to get the no-death banner from at its launch, so maybe use that (realitve) difficulty to start tuning up for the Master version.
    so by your logic releasing a dungeon for level 1 characters would be the ultimate success? I mean literally everyone would be able to finish it right?
    You didn't really read what I wrote, right?
    What does that last sentence I wrote say?
    But you maybe cleared the MSVA Banner run on a level 1 character, what do I know...
    A lot of games design content explicitly around the 0.1%. WoW does it, Path of Exile does it. In a recent dev post in Path of Exile they explicitly said they spent around 30% of their development time designing content that only 0.1% of their player base ever sees due to how hard it is. Both of these games are significantly more successful than NW is, so it seems to be a working model. Believe it or not, if you give people something to work towards, they have a stronger incentive to play.
    Oh I am all for it being really, really h̶a̶r̶d̶ difficult.
    But imho, it needs to be achieveable for (experienced) players juuust under BiS in less than two months, otherwise it will draw too much complaints, and it then it will (probably) be reduced to a difficulty that is below where it should be at.

    Also, rewards should be an incentive, and since I doubt anything of AD value will be sellable from the trial, I'm hoping for something of real use, or nice, exclusive transmutes.

    To sum it up, it would be great for the community with an easier version, and for the Epic, take Sharps ideal version of the trial, dial it back 5-10%, and it will be in the sweet spot... :smile:
    well, how can u be sure that players that are now experienced and near BIS wont be able to beat it with 2 months of practice and improvement?
  • viraaalviraaal Posts: 60Member Arc User

    tom#6998 said:

    hustin1 said:

    artifleur said:

    rjc9000 said:

    agilesto said:

    rjc9000 said:


    Especially if scrolls of life get deleted in the game.
    >:3

    Excuse me what?
    They aren't actually being deleted, but I'm hoping lassor will possibly consider deleting scrolls of life from the game so the whole "faceroll and then scroll if unlucky" habits die.
    That would be such a great change.

    I'd be glad to see stones of health disappear too.
    And let's drop Soulforged, and if people die, make them walk back to their corpse to get their equipment, oh, and lose XP because they suck so much they died, because we need MOAR HARD CORE!

    I'm being sarcastic. If I wanted hardcore I'd still be playing Everquest.
    I'm hoping for perma-death.
    You die, your character gets deleted.
    That would be super kewl, and I could brag for all those 10 people that might still care at that point, that I, Me, Me, MEEEE!!! have conquered the D̶r̶a̶g̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶L̶a̶i̶r̶, I mean Tower of the Mad Mage...

    In all seriousness, if only the top 20 players can finish the new dungeon that your developers have spent a ton of hours working on, that would be a MASSIVE failure, and someone would get fired instantly if it was my company.

    However, a Master and a regular version, like the Svardborg Assault, would be a lot better.

    Also, MSVA was considered hard to get the no-death banner from at its launch, so maybe use that (realitve) difficulty to start tuning up for the Master version.
    so by your logic releasing a dungeon for level 1 characters would be the ultimate success? I mean literally everyone would be able to finish it right?
    You didn't really read what I wrote, right?
    What does that last sentence I wrote say?
    But you maybe cleared the MSVA Banner run on a level 1 character, what do I know...
    A lot of games design content explicitly around the 0.1%. WoW does it, Path of Exile does it. In a recent dev post in Path of Exile they explicitly said they spent around 30% of their development time designing content that only 0.1% of their player base ever sees due to how hard it is. Both of these games are significantly more successful than NW is, so it seems to be a working model. Believe it or not, if you give people something to work towards, they have a stronger incentive to play.
    Oh I am all for it being really, really h̶a̶r̶d̶ difficult.
    But imho, it needs to be achieveable for (experienced) players juuust under BiS in less than two months, otherwise it will draw too much complaints, and it then it will (probably) be reduced to a difficulty that is below where it should be at.

    Also, rewards should be an incentive, and since I doubt anything of AD value will be sellable from the trial, I'm hoping for something of real use, or nice, exclusive transmutes.

    To sum it up, it would be great for the community with an easier version, and for the Epic, take Sharps ideal version of the trial, dial it back 5-10%, and it will be in the sweet spot... :smile:
    Imo, I want the current version even harder, people were already complaining, and if for example you want my ideal version but dialed back 10%, that would still be harder then what we have now. I dont think people realise how far we want to push this.

    I think there is a really big jump between end game player, and the elite end game players. I was witnessing runs not being able to make it past phase 2, and we are wanting a 100% health increase, and this is why there will always be a divide.
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