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DPS DC feels very weak - always out of divinity - change divinity costs or buff damage

onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User
When I play my DPS DC (24.3 k) it feels very weak.
The Problem I have.

on mobs - fill the pipes - when pipes filled - mobs are dead! Its much too slow.
on single Target - fogemaster cost too much divinity - I can use it 2 times then fill the pipe use it to generate divinity fill the pipes again to do full damage - fill pipe and use for divinity and so on. Its boring its slow it feels very bad. You loose alot of time for divinity management and for filling the pipes. Even if the pipe gets instant filled it feels too slow - because you need your full pipe instead of doing damage for divinity.
Thats not right for a DPS class. We are the only DPS class who needs to manage 3 pipes. Yellow, Orange AND divinity.

Solution:

reduce cost for divinity on the DPS path significantly - or the feat where you get 10 divinity per crit hit - increase to 30.
Forgemaster needs 300 divinity - so if I get 10 back with crit hit - it needs 0 crit hits - by 50 % crit it needs 60 hits overall to use 1(!) Forgemaster.

If you dont want to change divinity costs - then the powers needs to be buffed alot - because most of the fight you filling pipes or try to get divinity back instead of doing damage - that feels just wrong for a DPS class.

My CW is so much better and so much more fun to play as dps - only go in fight wait for cooldowns and dps whats possible.

PLS do something about it.


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Comments

  • aslan#5649 aslan Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    For starters, Devout Cleric (or DC) is the Healing path, not the DPS. If you're trying to DPS with a Devout Cleric of course your going to be doing weak damage and running out of Divinity all the time.

    Go to MMOMinds and have a look for Aphas Mod-16 Cleric build guide and follow the Arbiter Build and rotation suggestions (can't post links yet). Really helped me get going when I first decided to start trying to DPS with my Cleric.

    Yes the mob DPS is weak, other classes will smash them before you get 3-4 stacks of either Empowerment and the rotation takes time to get going, but you'll more than catch up on single targets with high HP.
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    Lance of faith -> Divine Glow -> Searing Javelins = a whole bunch of dead mobs - especially at your ilevel.

    Our DPS does just fine, if you're able to smartly manage your divinity - that means using a round of pips to restore divinity every couple of rounds. I usually fill Burning, cast javelins, fill radiant, cast BtS, javelins, then fill with the next radiant (as BtS is still on cooldown).
  • drakostar83drakostar83 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 18 Arc User
    Try to play with the Talent "Perfect Balance", if you do it right, you have not so many problems with your divinity.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,267 Arc User
    > @aslan#5649 said:
    > For starters, Devout Cleric (or DC) is the Healing path, not the DPS. If you're trying to DPS with a Devout Cleric of course your going to be doing weak damage and running out of Divinity all the time.
    >

    DC for Devoted Cleric, the original class name. That should be clear from the context.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    cdnbison said:

    Lance of faith -> Divine Glow -> Searing Javelins = a whole bunch of dead mobs - especially at your ilevel.

    Our DPS does just fine, if you're able to smartly manage your divinity - that means using a round of pips to restore divinity every couple of rounds. I usually fill Burning, cast javelins, fill radiant, cast BtS, javelins, then fill with the next radiant (as BtS is still on cooldown).

    "using a round of pips to restore divinity"

    yea and while doing this all other DPS classes doing damage. You have to think about you fill the pipes you use it for divinity and you have to fill the pipe again for doing damage. ALL this time means NO dps while others do damage.
    My 23k cw does 4 times the damage of my dc.

    And I talk not about scaled dungeons to oneshot mob - thats easily done. I´m talking about lomm - there you can see if you are able to do damage or not.
    Sure I saw 1 DC on xbox being Number 1 in Damage in lomm in a 23 min run - but I have no clue what he or she runs - the only thing I can think of is that prophecy is broken and collects all the damage and not only yours - or you can buff it or something like that.
    I can´t see on normal rotations being able to be usefull as dps in a endgame dungeon. Especially on same Gearscore.

    If you can do alot of DPS in lomm - not doing only 50 % of the damage of a top damage dealer - then I would like to see the build to see the rotation and to see the divinitymanagement - maybe I miss something.

  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,218 Arc User
    When clearing mobs, I don't worry about having pips before using Searing Javalin, I just let it loose and use any yellow pips for divinity. If there are larger mobs then Geas/BTS. The amount of time spent to try and get full pips before using SJ is just a waste especially when you are in a high gear group. You are better of just doing SJ/TAB/SJ. I really only worry about pips to empower encounters during boss fights.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    I recommend to ask Freya... dottir (Johannsdottir?) on PC, he/she plays the only Dps DC I know who did random runs all through the years and obviously knows exactly what to do. By that the dps looks pretty good, at least on par with other dps except TR and CW.
    The only dps DC I met so far. Typical dps load out with all the stuff others run too. Esp. Aoe from DC looks pretty good to me.
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    I care to differ, I played with Freya some days ago. Probably LOMM. Said his/hers ACT isn't working properly so I took logs instead.

    Great AoE burst dmg. I didn't have to do anything, I was just enjoying the run seeing how awesome DPS DC actually is.

    http://imgur.com/DGFyrpD

    Please, don't spread false info. There are some awesome DPS DCs out there with amazing burst damage.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • lordnagy#1603 lordnagy Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    > @schietindebux said:
    > I recommend to ask Freya... dottir (Johannsdottir?) on PC, he/she plays the only Dps DC I know who did random runs all through the years and obviously knows exactly what to do. By that the dps looks pretty good, at least on par with other dps except TR and CW.
    > The only dps DC I met so far. Typical dps load out with all the stuff others run too. Esp. Aoe from DC looks pretty good to me.

    At least on par with other dps except TR and CW AND <HR>. My melee build HR alt does significantly more dps than my Arbiter main
  • lordnagy#1603 lordnagy Member Posts: 177 Arc User
    AND HR that should read ^^^
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    HR in terms of aoe maybe, in focus damage that class drops of a bit from my experience, but if anyone wants to know how to play Arbiter I recommend to ask her, awesome dps.
  • raziel2004#7353 raziel2004 Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    Ask Gonzaid 6.0 ...
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    pitshade said:

    > @aslan#5649 said:

    > For starters, Devout Cleric (or DC) is the Healing path, not the DPS. If you're trying to DPS with a Devout Cleric of course your going to be doing weak damage and running out of Divinity all the time.

    >



    DC for Devoted Cleric, the original class name. That should be clear from the context.

    yeah, that old terminology is going to be a hard thing to kill. I don't think they should have changed the names that way. we've been playing too long and they're the same critters with a slightly different name.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,267 Arc User
    I doubt the devs gave it much thought but it is sort of counterintuitive that AC more or less becomes DC and DO becomes AC.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    Arbiter can do the job as DPS, no question. I just continue to dislike how slow and clunky it can feel and how dependent it is on RNG for procs to make it feel smooth and powerful for short bursts.

    Boss DPS may be what matters the most from a numbers perspective, but the overall dungeon experience and whether or not it's fun is also important. Searing Javelin is a great Encounter, but everything else about Arbiter AoE is awful and makes me miss the pre-M16 DC AoE DPS rotation.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    When clearing mobs, I don't worry about having pips before using Searing Javalin, I just let it loose and use any yellow pips for divinity. If there are larger mobs then Geas/BTS. The amount of time spent to try and get full pips before using SJ is just a waste especially when you are in a high gear group. You are better of just doing SJ/TAB/SJ. I really only worry about pips to empower encounters during boss fights.


    "You are better of just doing SJ/TAB/SJ"

    and this kills even AOE damage!
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    I care to differ, I played with Freya some days ago. Probably LOMM. Said his/hers ACT isn't working properly so I took logs instead.

    Great AoE burst dmg. I didn't have to do anything, I was just enjoying the run seeing how awesome DPS DC actually is.

    http://imgur.com/DGFyrpD

    Please, don't spread false info. There are some awesome DPS DCs out there with amazing burst damage.

    not sure if I miss something here (xbox player) but 45 Million Damage in a lomm run? Seems not very high - in what time was it done? was ist a 30 minute run? a 25 minute run? and how much Damage did the other classes like CW or HR?
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    > @schietindebux said:

    > I recommend to ask Freya... dottir (Johannsdottir?) on PC, he/she plays the only Dps DC I know who did random runs all through the years and obviously knows exactly what to do. By that the dps looks pretty good, at least on par with other dps except TR and CW.

    > The only dps DC I met so far. Typical dps load out with all the stuff others run too. Esp. Aoe from DC looks pretty good to me.



    At least on par with other dps except TR and CW AND . My melee build HR alt does significantly more dps than my Arbiter main

    so cw doing more damage
    hr doing more damage
    tr doing more damage

    thats what I have written - the DPS DC is not a DPS dc because he can´t compete with real DPS because hes too slow - all talking about same gearscore.

  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    Arbiter can do the job as DPS, no question. I just continue to dislike how slow and clunky it can feel and how dependent it is on RNG for procs to make it feel smooth and powerful for short bursts.

    Boss DPS may be what matters the most from a numbers perspective, but the overall dungeon experience and whether or not it's fun is also important. Searing Javelin is a great Encounter, but everything else about Arbiter AoE is awful and makes me miss the pre-M16 DC AoE DPS rotation.

    completly agree - he can do the job but its better to let someone else do the job.
    And it´s like you said you need RNG too to do damage - if its not on your side - dps gets even worse.

    Something needs to be done.

    If the pipe system stays maybe reduce it to 3 only? This way you could have very fast rotations even with divinitymanagement.

  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    There is no problem in AOE for arbiter. It becomes more complicated on boss when sudden verdict does not want to proc..... Which makes arbiter too much reliant on RNG despite more than correct magnitudes. And yes if you want to fill pipes to get more damage, you lose time: you have to adapt to the rest of the group.
    And yes CW HR TR are top dps, regardless.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    I DISAGREE. On one run, Up to 1st boss, an arbiter dc was doing as much damage as my HR. I only gained the lead back after 2nd and last boss, and it wasnt that big, that you wouldnt call an AC a dps.

    I asked him for some tips since we have been friends for a long time and now my "almost" 21k arbiter (only legendary companion is deepcrow for more heals, and others are leftovers like warlock, wildhuntrider, etc etc) which has same gear as my devout using tiamat set, can easily outdps people who still havent perfected their rotations(which feels like 70% of the people who responds when i form groups).

    Like what was said above, knowing when to use SJ, fully charged, somewhat charged, or not charged at all

    When to end fights with lance of faith so you have charges ready for next fight

    Managing divinity via perfect balance. Try it out and practice and perfect your rotations, and youll soon be seeing yourself feel like a goddamn tank when you engage fights.

    I assure you arbiter clerics carry their own weight plus more.
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    I DISAGREE. On one run, Up to 1st boss, an arbiter dc was doing as much damage as my HR. I only gained the lead back after 2nd and last boss, and it wasnt that big, that you wouldnt call an AC a dps.



    I asked him for some tips since we have been friends for a long time and now my "almost" 21k arbiter (only legendary companion is deepcrow for more heals, and others are leftovers like warlock, wildhuntrider, etc etc) which has same gear as my devout using tiamat set, can easily outdps people who still havent perfected their rotations(which feels like 70% of the people who responds when i form groups).



    Like what was said above, knowing when to use SJ, fully charged, somewhat charged, or not charged at all



    When to end fights with lance of faith so you have charges ready for next fight



    Managing divinity via perfect balance. Try it out and practice and perfect your rotations, and youll soon be seeing yourself feel like a goddamn tank when you engage fights.



    I assure you arbiter clerics carry their own weight plus more.

    maybe you do something wrong with your HR?

    If not - pls show me a 30 min lomm run or less (so i can be sure DPS was in the group) where a DC does almost as much damage as the top DPS dealer. Proove your statment!
    Like I said I play since game is on xbox and I main a DC and my CW is only an alt - but my cw easily does 4 times the damage of my DC. There is now way i can have a such fast rotation to do even the half of the damage.

    Proove your statement wit a 30 min or less lomm run ty
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited July 2019
    Dps DC 's are rare species, if it helps I can only give you an estimation about the outcome in lomm from my perspective.
    Fast run, Arbiter at 87 mio, me on Hellbringer 72mio, 3. dps was a warlock at about 60mio damage similar or even better stats but worse %gear, wich is pretty common in random runs.
    DC at 186k power 108 CA, me at 162k power 118k CA , similar % gear (both demon lord set as I remember), no storyteller, both run Doohickey etc.
    This is about the same result I get facing good performing dps classes with similar laodout -> Hunter<TR<CW (best dps).
    Running with bad performing TR, Hunter, CW at same stats, I deal near double their damage in lomm, wich leads to the result that some player, having the same gearscore/stats, miss more than 100% damage from what they should deal, all about the player and setup imo.
    I also run against many top CW, Hunter and TR at 200-220k power etc.
    In my internal ranking of classes DC is at least compareable to hunter, maybe even better, but that´s very subjective by sure.
    I can´t tell about rotation and powers, since I actually focus on warlock and Paladin and my GF and DC are somehow shelved a bit, no time for them, even though they got near all boons etc.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    > @onlymat said:
    > I DISAGREE. On one run, Up to 1st boss, an arbiter dc was doing as much damage as my HR. I only gained the lead back after 2nd and last boss, and it wasnt that big, that you wouldnt call an AC a dps.
    >
    >
    >
    > I asked him for some tips since we have been friends for a long time and now my "almost" 21k arbiter (only legendary companion is deepcrow for more heals, and others are leftovers like warlock, wildhuntrider, etc etc) which has same gear as my devout using tiamat set, can easily outdps people who still havent perfected their rotations(which feels like 70% of the people who responds when i form groups).
    >
    >
    >
    > Like what was said above, knowing when to use SJ, fully charged, somewhat charged, or not charged at all
    >
    >
    >
    > When to end fights with lance of faith so you have charges ready for next fight
    >
    >
    >
    > Managing divinity via perfect balance. Try it out and practice and perfect your rotations, and youll soon be seeing yourself feel like a goddamn tank when you engage fights.
    >
    >
    >
    > I assure you arbiter clerics carry their own weight plus more.
    >
    > maybe you do something wrong with your HR?
    >
    > If not - pls show me a 30 min lomm run or less (so i can be sure DPS was in the group) where a DC does almost as much damage as the top DPS dealer. Proove your statment!
    > Like I said I play since game is on xbox and I main a DC and my CW is only an alt - but my cw easily does 4 times the damage of my DC. There is now way i can have a such fast rotation to do even the half of the damage.
    >
    > Proove your statement wit a 30 min or less lomm run ty

    If i get you a video what do i get back? Better be ready to compensate me for my time :)

    Kidding aside maybe on the weekend ill have time. Ill go bug my friend for 2 runs if he is online :)
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    Also people should stop clinging to the idea that since they've been playing a long time, that their current knowledge about the game/class is the best one, but have not thoroughly tested the changes made with feats encounters dailys at wills companions artifacts and mount powers.
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    Also people should stop clinging to the idea that since they've been playing a long time, that their current knowledge about the game/class is the best one, but have not thoroughly tested the changes made with feats encounters dailys at wills companions artifacts and mount powers.

    you can be sure that I respecced all my respect tokens I had..... that have been alot. And I main my DC as I said., I still can´t see to do nearly the same damage as I do on my CW.

    I would like to know the rotation they do to do so much damage - I think still it has something to do with prophecy beeing bugged or can be buffed in a strange way. I really can´t see a DPS DC as top DPS vs a same skilled player with a CW.
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    > @onlymat said:

    > I DISAGREE. On one run, Up to 1st boss, an arbiter dc was doing as much damage as my HR. I only gained the lead back after 2nd and last boss, and it wasnt that big, that you wouldnt call an AC a dps.

    >

    >

    >

    > I asked him for some tips since we have been friends for a long time and now my "almost" 21k arbiter (only legendary companion is deepcrow for more heals, and others are leftovers like warlock, wildhuntrider, etc etc) which has same gear as my devout using tiamat set, can easily outdps people who still havent perfected their rotations(which feels like 70% of the people who responds when i form groups).

    >

    >

    >

    > Like what was said above, knowing when to use SJ, fully charged, somewhat charged, or not charged at all

    >

    >

    >

    > When to end fights with lance of faith so you have charges ready for next fight

    >

    >

    >

    > Managing divinity via perfect balance. Try it out and practice and perfect your rotations, and youll soon be seeing yourself feel like a goddamn tank when you engage fights.

    >

    >

    >

    > I assure you arbiter clerics carry their own weight plus more.

    >

    > maybe you do something wrong with your HR?

    >

    > If not - pls show me a 30 min lomm run or less (so i can be sure DPS was in the group) where a DC does almost as much damage as the top DPS dealer. Proove your statment!

    > Like I said I play since game is on xbox and I main a DC and my CW is only an alt - but my cw easily does 4 times the damage of my DC. There is now way i can have a such fast rotation to do even the half of the damage.

    >

    > Proove your statement wit a 30 min or less lomm run ty



    If i get you a video what do i get back? Better be ready to compensate me for my time :)



    Kidding aside maybe on the weekend ill have time. Ill go bug my friend for 2 runs if he is online :)

    I would really like to see it especially the rotation the DC does. I´m sure many of the DC´s would like to see it.
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User

    Dps DC 's are rare species, if it helps I can only give you an estimation about the outcome in lomm from my perspective.
    Fast run, Arbiter at 87 mio, me on Hellbringer 72mio, 3. dps was a warlock at about 60mio damage similar or even better stats but worse %gear, wich is pretty common in random runs.
    DC at 186k power 108 CA, me at 162k power 118k CA , similar % gear (both demon lord set as I remember), no storyteller, both run Doohickey etc.
    This is about the same result I get facing good performing dps classes with similar laodout -> Hunter

    how much time your run needed?
  • onlymatonlymat Member Posts: 317 Arc User
    forget everything. I found the DPS cleric on xbox
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    onlymat said:

    Dps DC 's are rare species, if it helps I can only give you an estimation about the outcome in lomm from my perspective.
    Fast run, Arbiter at 87 mio, me on Hellbringer 72mio, 3. dps was a warlock at about 60mio damage similar or even better stats but worse %gear, wich is pretty common in random runs.
    DC at 186k power 108 CA, me at 162k power 118k CA , similar % gear (both demon lord set as I remember), no storyteller, both run Doohickey etc.
    This is about the same result I get facing good performing dps classes with similar laodout -> Hunter

    how much time your run needed?
    A normal run without stops, like 30min I´d say, not running like being chased and also not wasting any time same way.
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