-snip- I really have no idea what you trying to get at.
You could have saved us both a lot of time by leading with that instead of posting what you thought I said - even if I never said any thing even remotely similar... Like your "arbitration" comment for instance.
...Yes this is just a game, to us... but it is also a money maker for PWE, Cryptic and everyone associated with them so it is in their best interest...to attempt to keep the majority of the player base appeased, while still earning money, as much as possible.
After all, some of these leeches are paying customers too, while many of the players they pay for the privilege of exploiting are not.
...Yes this is just a game, to us... but it is also a money maker for PWE, Cryptic and everyone associated with them so it is in their best interest...to attempt to keep the majority of the player base appeased, while still earning money, as much as possible.
I often wonder if that's the reason for this seeming reluctance to crack down on AFK/leeches. The leeches payed for the privilege of exploiting other players, many of whom are not paying customers - so serves them right.
Could be, but I'd not be willing to put money on it because in the end exploiters often wind up hurting the game much more than supporting it.
More then likely in my opinion is if they discover a sure game exploit, they figure it's gone on long enough by the time they discover it they'll shut it down, however as has been mentioned just because someone thinks- there's something fishy going on doesn't necessarily mean there is actually something exploitative or against the rules going on.
Again just recently one of my characters was in a leveling queue, four players arrived, three took off I waited for the slow connect that also happened to be a "new player" and about the best either of us could do was try to play catch-up leaving us both with very low points for the run. At least until the final boss gate where the other party members were forced to wait until we caught up before they could continue.
By some standards I suppose myself and the new player may have been considered "leeches" because we both had exceptional low totals for the run - but neither of us were intentionally attempting to exploit the game.
Asheron's Call had answer for botting/afk, they combat with cheat code for "unattended macro-combat" so the players went to bed while character are "leveling up" in dungeons, so to fix the exploiting combat script, in past, they tried game master or "envoy non-playing" character to check reports, but they seem to have "alert" script to get players back on keyboard. so, they came up very surprising anti-bot script, they used "player-killer" ninjas spawn and very deadly, i faced few and lived to tell. then i avoid those parts of dungeons that are known to spawn the ninjas and i only hunt less mob density and little risk since you have to run back and forth and move alot, they seem to have "motion sensor" where the mobs rush to heavy known spots, if that character botting, it stays in same spot killing the mobs repeatly, then it trigger ninja spawns.
neverwinter is completely different creature. most dungeons we runs are already cleared, there no point of staying. one dungeon we know and saw bots in "Ghost Story", they abused since it was only place the mobs respawned and kit nodes respawn, that why it was exploited badly. Devs fixed that, it was good call.
Asheron's Call no longer around, shut down by Warner Bros. it was bad call for Turbinegames and they already regretted, and became Standing Stones. it had top notch pvp and pve themes, folks that made Guild Wars, learned from it, made it fast and furious. best lightning reflex and quick cast.
im not a real big fan of the afk and bot thing where they should make rules for this stuff cause i don't think it's right that you put a group together just to see them not follow for how they just want credit for doing nothing where they should either terminate there account or ban them or i bet they wouldn't do this anymore since i do agree that this stuff gets kind of old
And the reason for this was that at least 50% of the "players" were more interested in admiring the flames at the campfire, including both tanks.
Inevitably, as re-entering the arena caused an instant death, the result was everyone then waited outside until it completed.
Come on developers. You funnel us into random queues to obtain AD yet have given the actual players next to zero tools to deal with bots and afkers and you seemingly are not doing much (if anything) to address this.
Random content in this game has become unplayable - it's just not fun.
Sort it out please, or whines about Mod 16 will be the least of your problems.
Why isn't their an emote for disagree lol? Insightful Agree Like Awesome and lol? Is disagree lol?
Anywho, it's like people nowadays have learning disabilities, maybe it's the tooth paste or the pink slime. But the developers always end up making something worst, as a gamer you should know to stop asking for things to stop botting. If it's not drastically killing your gaming experience let it go.
Unless you want a patch that allows creepy fingers, inside your computer stealing your info and selling it to Suckerberg.
Why isn't their an emote for disagree lol? Insightful Agree Like Awesome and lol? Is disagree lol?
Harassment.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I do almost exclusively public dungeons, and this bot situation described here I just don't see ingame. sure theres some lazy/useless players but everytime someone on my team has accused another of being a bot that person has spoken up and proved they weren't. I'm sure there are bots, but I've never 100% encountered one. What i have seen is people logging 2 machines on and then having one of their characters follow the other in a dungeon, I've seen this 3-4 times.
Try a public cloaktower. You have pretty much 50% chances to get at least one bot with you. One kind (the most frequent one) is easily recognized, try to spot that :
=> the bot fight very slowly/poorly if he meets mobs in his path, and he mostly (but not always) runs without any real equipement if he is level 80 (grey/green crappy stuff, no secondary artifact, no ring, not a single enchant anywhere, but that's also frenquently the case for the real player-leecher alt) => he never takes the shortcut in the library, => if his pathfinding fails (for exemple because a real player bodyblocked him a lot all along, resulting in the bot bumping multiple times in the same wall => often happen in the last left turn), he will usually do a /killme to reset/resume at the closest firecamp, => most of the time he will arrive way after the "wait for partymember" circle is triggered by a real player, BUT a bot will still do a weird zigzag/angle to hit anyway the axe supposed to trigger the circle... (Same in every dungeon => a bot will always always always try to hit the object triggering the "waiting for partymember" circle.)
And the reason for this was that at least 50% of the "players" were more interested in admiring the flames at the campfire, including both tanks.
Inevitably, as re-entering the arena caused an instant death, the result was everyone then waited outside until it completed.
Come on developers. You funnel us into random queues to obtain AD yet have given the actual players next to zero tools to deal with bots and afkers and you seemingly are not doing much (if anything) to address this.
Random content in this game has become unplayable - it's just not fun.
Sort it out please, or whines about Mod 16 will be the least of your problems.
Why isn't their an emote for disagree lol? Insightful Agree Like Awesome and lol? Is disagree lol?
Anywho, it's like people nowadays have learning disabilities, maybe it's the tooth paste or the pink slime. But the developers always end up making something worst, as a gamer you should know to stop asking for things to stop botting. If it's not drastically killing your gaming experience let it go.
Unless you want a patch that allows creepy fingers, inside your computer stealing your info and selling it to Suckerberg.
they took out the disagree after some forum posters complained about ppl they were arguing with disagreeing with all of their posts... which made those ppl go back and disagree with ALL of the complainers posts.... this is why we can't have nice things
Why isn't their an emote for disagree lol? Insightful Agree Like Awesome and lol? Is disagree lol?
Because they removed it since the world has gone so PC and people can't possibly disagree with each other. Not to mention people complained that it was not an efffective means of communicating since they don't know why you disagree.
Because, again, the world would cease to exist if you didn't understand the whys of something.
Now lol serves multiple purposes for me. I use it when someone says something that genuinely amuses me and when someone says something so moronic that I'm lol'ing them.
Because it's much better to have a completely ambiguous emote like LOL than to disagree and hurt someones feelings.
I miss you "disagree". Come back home!
3
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,092Arc User
Well, no. If you are going to disagree with someone, type it out. And if you feel it is necessary, consider spelling out exactly why you disagree with them.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Well, no. If you are going to disagree with someone, type it out. And if you feel it is necessary, consider spelling out exactly why you disagree with them.
Thats your opinion, and only an opinion. If you had just hit a "Disagree" button instead of writing that out it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest.
Nor would I have any desire to know further what you disagreed with if you just hit a button.
There are plenty of people willing to write out their opinion and interact with. If some don't feel the need or have the time it's really not a big deal.
Thats your opinion, and only an opinion. If you had just hit a "Disagree" button instead of writing that out it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest.
Nor would I have any desire to know further what you disagreed with if you just hit a button.
There are plenty of people willing to write out their opinion and interact with. If some don't feel the need or have the time it's really not a big deal.
This is true, but obviously enough people disagreed with that assessment, and, well, here we are with no "Disagree" button under posts now.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Well, no. If you are going to disagree with someone, type it out. And if you feel it is necessary, consider spelling out exactly why you disagree with them.
Its suppose to be this way. But rarely people are able to converse their disagreement in a civil manner and turn it into a meaningful learning experience for both party. Most of people lost their coolness and had their conversation ended up in lower depths. While there are people who prefer to express their toxicity by hiding behind LOL button. Some just prefer to avoid confrontation.
Disagreeing with a statement is not the same as agreeing with a statement... If one agrees with a statement then the reasons are pretty much clearly spelled out in the original statement. Inversely if one disagrees with a statement they should have the courtesy to specify WHY they disagree with the statement, at least that's the way I have always understood it and that doesn't just pertain to here on this forum.
Presently the world seems to be full of people who try to claim a premise or opinion is "wrong" or disagreeable, but when asked why - often that person can't (or won't) explain their reason for objecting, which for me at least, destroys any credibility the dissenting view or poster/person may have had.
When the disagree button was on the forum and when anyone simply clicked disagree, I usually asked "WHY?" and more times than not just got -crickets chirping-
Well, no. If you are going to disagree with someone, type it out. And if you feel it is necessary, consider spelling out exactly why you disagree with them.
we need the ability immediately on entering any team based instance, to vote out a player, not have to wait 5 minutes, or not the ability at all as in Ndemo/Edemo. it is highly unlikely that during any vote to /kick, a legitimate player would receive enough yes votes to be team kicked for an unsubstantiated reason. /kick votes are only initiated for valid reasons in my experience, and it only takes one dissenter to halt it.... its worse now that you can queue for demo for 15-20 minutes, enter but be unable to start for 5 minutes while someone is afk and stood outside the circle...and then try to complete it with afk'ers dead at the fire waiting while 7 of you have a bad time completing the dungeon only to get silver or bronze.
again..please for the love of god...give us the ability to kick from the start, or remove the ability to open chests from players that have a zero damage count at the end.
again..please for the love of god...give us the ability to kick from the start, or remove the ability to open chests from players that have a zero damage count at the end.
yesterday the same bot would show up in skirmishes for hours with a second bot in tow. it makes me wonder how much of the in game economy is affected by the bots.
As a new player, I was disappointed to go into a random que with toons that stood and did nothing while three of us attempted to prevail. We died often and the cost in potions and heal kits off-set any rewards frankly. It was not enjoyable or a good reflection on the company that can easily add code to prevent idle players. On other occasions watching players run into walls and get locked in corners running their backsides off made it extremely obvious that bots are an issue in this game as well. I love this game but it can be as frustrating as it is enjoyable during occasions like that. Recently stopped playing GW2 for the same reasons after 2 years where I spent an average of 30 dollars a month to support the game. Hopefully someone can come up with a solution of bots in the industry in general for people looking to have fun, gaming is supposed to be stress relief , not stress inducing
The reality of things as I see it as it pertains to bots - they may be annoying, they may even be considered offensive to some, I very much wish there was some fool-proof way to identify and remove them - but there doesn't seem to be...
So unless they are a serious impediment to the completion of whatever instance the group is in, I've mostly resigned to ignoring and/or reporting them. I have personally witnessed too many instances of someone in the party claiming "So-and-so's a bot" only to have that player respond "No, I'm not!". The sad fact seems to be there is no fool-proof method available to players to identify actually bot behavior and unless or until there is I would rather continue to play alongside programmed cheat vehicles than take the chance of kicking out a legitimate player because someone thinks - they are a bot.
we need the ability immediately on entering any team based instance, to vote out a player, not have to wait 5 minutes, or not the ability at all as in Ndemo/Edemo. it is highly unlikely that during any vote to /kick, a legitimate player would receive enough yes votes to be team kicked for an unsubstantiated reason. /kick votes are only initiated for valid reasons in my experience, and it only takes one dissenter to halt it.... its worse now that you can queue for demo for 15-20 minutes, enter but be unable to start for 5 minutes while someone is afk and stood outside the circle...and then try to complete it with afk'ers dead at the fire waiting while 7 of you have a bad time completing the dungeon only to get silver or bronze.
again..please for the love of god...give us the ability to kick from the start, or remove the ability to open chests from players that have a zero damage count at the end.
The reason why we have a vote timer in the first place is because legitimate players WERE being kicked from content.
we need the ability immediately on entering any team based instance, to vote out a player, not have to wait 5 minutes, or not the ability at all as in Ndemo/Edemo. it is highly unlikely that during any vote to /kick, a legitimate player would receive enough yes votes to be team kicked for an unsubstantiated reason. /kick votes are only initiated for valid reasons in my experience, and it only takes one dissenter to halt it.... its worse now that you can queue for demo for 15-20 minutes, enter but be unable to start for 5 minutes while someone is afk and stood outside the circle...and then try to complete it with afk'ers dead at the fire waiting while 7 of you have a bad time completing the dungeon only to get silver or bronze.
again..please for the love of god...give us the ability to kick from the start, or remove the ability to open chests from players that have a zero damage count at the end.
The reason why we have a vote timer in the first place is because legitimate players WERE being kicked from content.
And I absolutely believe the abuses that happened then will, without a doubt, happen again without sufficient safeguards like the ones that are already incorporated in the game...
Like the belief some have that when an instance starts, there are players who just stand by the healing circle and not immediately run out to confront mobs... Well the fact is not every player connects or arrives in the instance at the same time. Some players take longer (some seem to take much longer) to even arrive in an instance than other players. This may be due to the different types of internet connections, the different speed of gaming devices (netbook, notebook, laptop, desktop, etc.) and all the variations of software and hardware that can effect connection speed.
Recently in a Dread Legion skirmish one person in our party tried to make the case for another player "cheating", "AFK" and needed to be kicked (even though we were well below the countdown timer expiration)...
While the rest of us were out battling mobs, it seemed one player just remained at the assembly point... however looking at that player's name on the screen it was clear to me there were no attribute/powers icons next to their name, they weren't AFK, they weren't leeching, they weren't "cheating" - they just had a really slow connection speed - yet one player was positive another player was intentionally scamming the game and tried to call them out for it suggesting that player should be kicked.
I'll be ready to support the immediate kick option - just as soon as someone can prove to me they have a fool-proof method for identifying AFK'ers, Leeches, bots or whatever - until then I consider the countdown timer on the player vote to kick option the 'lesser of two evils'.
Comments
Maybe I am slow because as for the rest of your post, I really have no idea what you trying to get at.
More then likely in my opinion is if they discover a sure game exploit, they figure it's gone on long enough by the time they discover it they'll shut it down, however as has been mentioned just because someone thinks- there's something fishy going on doesn't necessarily mean there is actually something exploitative or against the rules going on.
Again just recently one of my characters was in a leveling queue, four players arrived, three took off I waited for the slow connect that also happened to be a "new player" and about the best either of us could do was try to play catch-up leaving us both with very low points for the run. At least until the final boss gate where the other party members were forced to wait until we caught up before they could continue.
By some standards I suppose myself and the new player may have been considered "leeches" because we both had exceptional low totals for the run - but neither of us were intentionally attempting to exploit the game.
so, they came up very surprising anti-bot script, they used "player-killer" ninjas spawn and very deadly, i faced few and lived to tell.
then i avoid those parts of dungeons that are known to spawn the ninjas and i only hunt less mob density and little risk since you have to run back and forth and move alot, they seem to have "motion sensor" where the mobs rush to heavy known spots, if that character botting, it stays in same spot killing the mobs repeatly, then it trigger ninja spawns.
neverwinter is completely different creature. most dungeons we runs are already cleared, there no point of staying. one dungeon we know and saw bots in "Ghost Story", they abused since it was only place the mobs respawned and kit nodes respawn, that why it was exploited badly.
Devs fixed that, it was good call.
Asheron's Call no longer around, shut down by Warner Bros. it was bad call for Turbinegames and they already regretted, and became Standing Stones. it had top notch pvp and pve themes, folks that made Guild Wars, learned from it, made it fast and furious. best lightning reflex and quick cast.
Why isn't their an emote for disagree lol? Insightful Agree Like Awesome and lol? Is disagree lol?
Anywho, it's like people nowadays have learning disabilities, maybe it's the tooth paste or the pink slime. But the developers always end up making something worst, as a gamer you should know to stop asking for things to stop botting. If it's not drastically killing your gaming experience let it go.
Unless you want a patch that allows creepy fingers, inside your computer stealing your info and selling it to Suckerberg.
One kind (the most frequent one) is easily recognized, try to spot that :
=> the bot fight very slowly/poorly if he meets mobs in his path, and he mostly (but not always) runs without any real equipement if he is level 80 (grey/green crappy stuff, no secondary artifact, no ring, not a single enchant anywhere, but that's also frenquently the case for the real player-leecher alt)
=> he never takes the shortcut in the library,
=> if his pathfinding fails (for exemple because a real player bodyblocked him a lot all along, resulting in the bot bumping multiple times in the same wall => often happen in the last left turn), he will usually do a /killme to reset/resume at the closest firecamp,
=> most of the time he will arrive way after the "wait for partymember" circle is triggered by a real player, BUT a bot will still do a weird zigzag/angle to hit anyway the axe supposed to trigger the circle... (Same in every dungeon => a bot will always always always try to hit the object triggering the "waiting for partymember" circle.)
Because, again, the world would cease to exist if you didn't understand the whys of something.
Now lol serves multiple purposes for me. I use it when someone says something that genuinely amuses me and when someone says something so moronic that I'm lol'ing them.
Because it's much better to have a completely ambiguous emote like LOL than to disagree and hurt someones feelings.
I miss you "disagree". Come back home!
Nor would I have any desire to know further what you disagreed with if you just hit a button.
There are plenty of people willing to write out their opinion and interact with. If some don't feel the need or have the time it's really not a big deal.
Presently the world seems to be full of people who try to claim a premise or opinion is "wrong" or disagreeable, but when asked why - often that person can't (or won't) explain their reason for objecting, which for me at least, destroys any credibility the dissenting view or poster/person may have had.
When the disagree button was on the forum and when anyone simply clicked disagree, I usually asked "WHY?" and more times than not just got -crickets chirping-
it is highly unlikely that during any vote to /kick, a legitimate player would receive enough yes votes to be team kicked for an unsubstantiated reason. /kick votes are only initiated for valid reasons in my experience, and it only takes one dissenter to halt it....
its worse now that you can queue for demo for 15-20 minutes, enter but be unable to start for 5 minutes while someone is afk and stood outside the circle...and then try to complete it with afk'ers dead at the fire waiting while 7 of you have a bad time completing the dungeon only to get silver or bronze.
again..please for the love of god...give us the ability to kick from the start, or remove the ability to open chests from players that have a zero damage count at the end.
So unless they are a serious impediment to the completion of whatever instance the group is in, I've mostly resigned to ignoring and/or reporting them. I have personally witnessed too many instances of someone in the party claiming "So-and-so's a bot" only to have that player respond "No, I'm not!". The sad fact seems to be there is no fool-proof method available to players to identify actually bot behavior and unless or until there is I would rather continue to play alongside programmed cheat vehicles than take the chance of kicking out a legitimate player because someone thinks - they are a bot.
Like the belief some have that when an instance starts, there are players who just stand by the healing circle and not immediately run out to confront mobs... Well the fact is not every player connects or arrives in the instance at the same time.
Some players take longer (some seem to take much longer) to even arrive in an instance than other players. This may be due to the different types of internet connections, the different speed of gaming devices (netbook, notebook, laptop, desktop, etc.) and all the variations of software and hardware that can effect connection speed.
Recently in a Dread Legion skirmish one person in our party tried to make the case for another player "cheating", "AFK" and needed to be kicked (even though we were well below the countdown timer expiration)...
While the rest of us were out battling mobs, it seemed one player just remained at the assembly point... however looking at that player's name on the screen it was clear to me there were no attribute/powers icons next to their name, they weren't AFK, they weren't leeching, they weren't "cheating" - they just had a really slow connection speed - yet one player was positive another player was intentionally scamming the game and tried to call them out for it suggesting that player should be kicked.
I'll be ready to support the immediate kick option - just as soon as someone can prove to me they have a fool-proof method for identifying AFK'ers, Leeches, bots or whatever - until then I consider the countdown timer on the player vote to kick option the 'lesser of two evils'.
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