Why Barbarians have just one Offense slot for companions?

robai · July 2019

Barbarians have these companions slots:
1 slot: Offense
3 slots: Defense
1 slot: Utility

Shouldn't it be 3 Offense slots and 1 Defense slot?
At least 2 Offense slots would be nice.

frogwalloper · July 2019

Or some combo slots
I don't like how boxed in some classes are.

fyrstigor · July 2019

Fighters have the same problem. Only 1 offense slot on the DPS side. If i remember right Foss said something in a steam that with their current stuff they are not able to make it so different loadouts have different number of slots types. So hopefully this will be changed eventually.

Short term it would be nice if fighter and barbie had a flat % dmg increase to make up for the all the lost easy to get offense stats other classes gets to enjoy.

Unknown · July 2019

This content has been removed.

fyrstigor · July 2019

pariswinters#7118 said:
pretty sure they balanced the class in other ways, like cooldowns and magnitude of encounters, for all the complaints i see here......ingame the barbarians i encounter don't seem to have any trouble being competitive dps, sometimes they even top the dps charts with equally geared dps from other classes on the team.

same for fighter, i've seen a few who do amazing as dps, though the class is far less popular then it was.

if the game was even remotely challenging then asking for more dps would make sense....but its so easy now.....why the heck do you need more dps?

personally i think they need to cut base weapon damage in half across the board.
and remove combined rating and also 50% of the stats on all gear.
this game is WAYYY too easy

I know ur not a big fan of math. But try to find a calculator and add those numbers up u want gone. Then game will not be hard, it will be almost impossible unless ur part of the elite best. And u dont strike me as the type who is there.

zimxero · July 2019

They should have done OFF + DEF + UTIL baseline, with the other two determined by the paragon options available:

Healer - Utility
DPS - Offense
Tank - Defense

namelesshero347 · July 2019

I think most likely it is a system limitation. The types of slots seem to be tied to the class, not paragon. Tank is the more critical role (at least it should be in harder runs). So if they had to go with one set, they skewed towards tank. Both paladins have three defense slot, even though it may make sense the healer should get an additional utility slot instead.

robai · July 2019

namelesshero347 said:
I think most likely it is a system limitation. The types of slots seem to be tied to the class, not paragon.

If, by chance, that is the case then it should be 2 Offense slots and 2 Defense slots, because the majority play Barbarian as DPS anyway.
DPS toons have plenty of DPS companions and it sucks when you can use just one. It's just just plain wrong.

Unknown · July 2019

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namelesshero347 · July 2019

robai#6206 said:

If, by chance, that is the case then it should be 2 Offense slots and 2 Defense slots, because the majority play Barbarian as DPS anyway.
DPS toons have plenty of DPS companions and it sucks when you can use just one. It's just just plain wrong.

While it is probably true most barbies are DPS, the one barbie tank in a run may be more important than the barbie DPS because there are two other DPSs. If that one barbie tank has problems standing up to the boss, then run is finished. Also, it is easier for people to compensate for that one offense slot (looking at those 150K+ power folks).

I don't like it myself, but it is what it is.

fyrstigor · July 2019

pariswinters#7118 said:

fyrstigor said:

pariswinters#7118 said:
pretty sure they balanced the class in other ways, like cooldowns and magnitude of encounters, for all the complaints i see here......ingame the barbarians i encounter don't seem to have any trouble being competitive dps, sometimes they even top the dps charts with equally geared dps from other classes on the team.

same for fighter, i've seen a few who do amazing as dps, though the class is far less popular then it was.

if the game was even remotely challenging then asking for more dps would make sense....but its so easy now.....why the heck do you need more dps?

personally i think they need to cut base weapon damage in half across the board.
and remove combined rating and also 50% of the stats on all gear.
this game is WAYYY too easy
I know ur not a big fan of math. But try to find a calculator and add those numbers up u want gone. Then game will not be hard, it will be almost impossible unless ur part of the elite best. And u dont strike me as the type who is there.
it wouldnt be impossible, it would be basically what it was when mod 16 came out, without the new gear. challenging sure, but not impossible.

why make this about me?

And no it wouldnt be how it was when mod 16 came out. From primal to new weapons was about 30-35% dmg increase. So u want us to lower dmg than when mod came out. Removing combine rating would remove an easy 10k stat in everything from everyone. And then 50% off on stats from gear too. I would lose 70-100k HP on most toons. Most normal geared 20-24k would be in the range of 80-100k power.

All this loss in dmg would mean a lot of players wouldnt be able to even kill mimics. Some classes wouldnt be able to kill mimic unless they had everything at max. The majority of players wouldnt be able to survive the last blow on trobrian cause of the HP + defense loss. Healing second boss in LoMM would be very hard too, u could heal it fine with the lower power, but everyone having so much less HP and less defense u have to be a very good player to do it well.

So u want the game back to the point where the requirement to enter is for instance 20k, but to actually complete it u need to be 24k+, just like it was before.

And from what u have said about how u group, who u play with, theses changes that u have no clue how would impact the game, because u refuse to do math since ur opinion is far better (ur own words), i can tell u for sure, ur clear rate of anything would be close to 0% if u had theses changes implemented.

So yes, the game would become pretty much impossible for the majority of players, specially the casual ones.

I will say again, go grab urself a calculator, crunch some numbers. Use a brain cell or 2 and then come up with actual ideas.

ecrana · July 2019

I realize that some people may see defense slot and for some reason think it means you can only boost defensive abilities or stats through them but that's just false.

A quick look at rainer's handy sheet and you would know that there are companions that give combat advantage, power, and many other offensive stats through the defensive slots.

So maybe more research and less time harping over not being to slot 3 offense companions. You have options and 3 defensive slots are not as limiting as people are trying to make it out to be.

Fey panther, phase spider, minstrel, look at that... 3 options right off the bat with a quick skim and they go in defense while giving offensive stats.

Is it limiting? Yes. Devoid of options? Not even close.

Unknown · July 2019

This content has been removed.

ecrana · July 2019

pariswinters#7118 said:
its just too easy to hit all your caps now...

I just want to say that this one line of yours is so true it's sad. It's not at all hard to hit almost all of your caps.

Depending on where you were last mod you may even find it easier to hit your armpen/crit/def/etc caps.

And even being that easy... I run into players that can't kill mobs in MEs much less attempt a LOMM run.

The ease of the game has never had a lot to do with the game mechanics or stat distribution. It has everything to do with the quality of the player.

No amount of damage reduction or removal of stats is ever going to help that and I run into people that are bad more often than people that are good.

admiralwarlord · July 2019

ecrana#2080 said:
I realize that some people may see defense slot and for some reason think it means you can only boost defensive abilities or stats through them but that's just false.

A quick look at rainer's handy sheet and you would know that there are companions that give combat advantage, power, and many other offensive stats through the defensive slots.

So maybe more research and less time harping over not being to slot 3 offense companions. You have options and 3 defensive slots are not as limiting as people are trying to make it out to be.

Fey panther, phase spider, minstrel, look at that... 3 options right off the bat with a quick skim and they go in defense while giving offensive stats.

Is it limiting? Yes. Devoid of options? Not even close.

Your opinion sounds like a joke.

I will demonstrate the difference of 3 offensive and 3 defensive slots:

3 Offensive Slots: Deepcrow - 8k power
                            Barbarian Shaman - 2k Power + 4k CA
                            Mercenary - 4k Power + 2k CA

3 Defensive Slots: Minstrel - 4k Power + 2k Awareness
                            Ioun Stone of Might - 2k Power + 4k Deflection
                            Ioun Stone of Allure - + 10% Incoming Healing + 2k Power

Note that if you are an end player like I am, you do not need any other status other than power (I still need some more CA, but part of that is the fault of the teammates). I could still cite other options I've been analyzing at the time of the preview test like Slyblade Kobald (Increases Encounter damage against Held targets by 10%), Paranoid Delusion (Increases At-Will damage against Held targets by 10% 4% in At-Will).

I am an end game player, I only reached this level for being competitive and always trying to improve, this causes my disappointment to increase in relation to this module, as much as it is always improving my equipment, I never get close to the final dps of some classes and I think that's the fault of the 3 offensive slots they have.

fyrstigor · July 2019

admiralwarlord#3792 said:

ecrana#2080 said:
I realize that some people may see defense slot and for some reason think it means you can only boost defensive abilities or stats through them but that's just false.

A quick look at rainer's handy sheet and you would know that there are companions that give combat advantage, power, and many other offensive stats through the defensive slots.

So maybe more research and less time harping over not being to slot 3 offense companions. You have options and 3 defensive slots are not as limiting as people are trying to make it out to be.

Fey panther, phase spider, minstrel, look at that... 3 options right off the bat with a quick skim and they go in defense while giving offensive stats.

Is it limiting? Yes. Devoid of options? Not even close.
Your opinion sounds like a joke.

I will demonstrate the difference of 3 offensive and 3 defensive slots:

3 Offensive Slots: Deepcrow - 8k power
                            Barbarian Shaman - 2k Power + 4k CA
                            Mercenary - 4k Power + 2k CA

3 Defensive Slots: Minstrel - 4k Power + 2k Awareness
                            Ioun Stone of Might - 2k Power + 4k Deflection
                            Ioun Stone of Allure - + 10% Incoming Healing + 2k Power

Note that if you are an end player like I am, you do not need any other status other than power (I still need some more CA, but part of that is the fault of the teammates). I could still cite other options I've been analyzing at the time of the preview test like Slyblade Kobald (Increases Encounter damage against Held targets by 10%), Paranoid Delusion (Increases At-Will damage against Held targets by 10% 4% in At-Will).

I am an end game player, I only reached this level for being competitive and always trying to improve, this causes my disappointment to increase in relation to this module, as much as it is always improving my equipment, I never get close to the final dps of some classes and I think that's the fault of the 3 offensive slots they have.

The 2 more offense slots doesnt do that much of a difference if ur endgame and maxed on everything else. If ur max on everything u can get 200k power. At 200k power a potentional of 16k more from those 2 offense slots would be a dps increase of about 5%. And already at 150k+ power u start to barely notice the difference in adding more. It helps ofc, but the gain isnt much u can see unless u run ATC.

The lack of 2 offense slots actually hurts the casual low geared players way more. Cause yes there is options for offense stats in defense. But the offense ones gives more and are way cheaper. So being new and starting out, having access to those little bursts of stats when u could use them isnt ideal.

plasticbat · July 2019

admiralwarlord#3792 said:

ecrana#2080 said:
I realize that some people may see defense slot and for some reason think it means you can only boost defensive abilities or stats through them but that's just false.

A quick look at rainer's handy sheet and you would know that there are companions that give combat advantage, power, and many other offensive stats through the defensive slots.

So maybe more research and less time harping over not being to slot 3 offense companions. You have options and 3 defensive slots are not as limiting as people are trying to make it out to be.

Fey panther, phase spider, minstrel, look at that... 3 options right off the bat with a quick skim and they go in defense while giving offensive stats.

Is it limiting? Yes. Devoid of options? Not even close.
Your opinion sounds like a joke.

I will demonstrate the difference of 3 offensive and 3 defensive slots:

3 Offensive Slots: Deepcrow - 8k power
                            Barbarian Shaman - 2k Power + 4k CA
                            Mercenary - 4k Power + 2k CA

3 Defensive Slots: Minstrel - 4k Power + 2k Awareness
                            Ioun Stone of Might - 2k Power + 4k Deflection
                            Ioun Stone of Allure - + 10% Incoming Healing + 2k Power

Note that if you are an end player like I am, you do not need any other status other than power (I still need some more CA, but part of that is the fault of the teammates). I could still cite other options I've been analyzing at the time of the preview test like Slyblade Kobald (Increases Encounter damage against Held targets by 10%), Paranoid Delusion (Increases At-Will damage against Held targets by 10% 4% in At-Will).

I am an end game player, I only reached this level for being competitive and always trying to improve, this causes my disappointment to increase in relation to this module, as much as it is always improving my equipment, I never get close to the final dps of some classes and I think that's the fault of the 3 offensive slots they have.

Not sure why you compare 3 offensive slots to 3 defense slots

if you want to compare a GWF to a CW, it should be 1 offense + 3 defense vs 3 offense + 1 defense.

Using what you provided:

GWF: 1 Offensive Slots: Deepcrow - 8k power
3 Defensive Slots: Minstrel - 4k Power + 2k Awareness
                             Ioun Stone of Might - 2k Power + 4k Deflection
                             Ioun Stone of Allure - + 10% Incoming Healing + 2k Power

cw: 3 Offensive Slots: Deepcrow - 8k power
                             Barbarian Shaman - 2k Power + 4k CA
                            Mercenary - 4k Power + 2k CA
1 Defensive Slots: Minstrel - 4k Power + 2k Awareness

Essentially, it compares:
                             Ioun Stone of Might - 2k Power + 4k Deflection
                             Ioun Stone of Allure - + 10% Incoming Healing + 2k Power
vs
                            Barbarian Shaman - 2k Power + 4k CA
                            Mercenary - 4k Power + 2k CA

The difference is CW has extra 2K power + 6K CA and GWF has extra 4K deflection + 10% incoming healing.
My casual GWF currently has 107K power and 83K CA (and has 0 power and 0 CA in his companion slots).
Will that extra 2K power and 6K CA make a huge impact for my casual GWF?
It would have even less impact for the end game player.

bajancloak · July 2019

Isnt it a lot more than just slotting power in the offence slots? E.g Cant a CW use the following for more damage?

1 Deepcrow - 8k power
2 Siege Master - +4% Damage to At Wills
3 Tigers Instinct - +6000 Power and +20% Mov Speed for 10 sec at start of combat

Even the use of something like the Skyblade kobold- Increase encounter damage by 4% against targets that are held or disabled.

To me its not just the extra power, its the ability to mix up and use other offensive abilities that can make a big difference.

mebengalsfan · July 2019

zimxero#8085 said:
They should have done OFF + DEF + UTIL baseline, with the other two determined by the paragon options available:

Healer - Utility
DPS - Offense
Tank - Defense

That is what was Foss response on this topic; they didn't have the man power to do this and still don't. If they do make this modification it will be at a later date; maybe mod 17 has it or maybe mod 18.

What I want to know is why do Templocks have 3 offensive as a healer; they should have 2 utility.

Here is how I would have done the setup for each role
Tank/DPS classes: 2 def, 2 off, and 1 utility
Healer/DPS classes: 2 utility, 2 Off, 1 def
Healer / Tank: 2 utility, 2 def, 1 off
DPS: 3 off, 1 utility, 1 def

IMO players should be able to select which ones they want so if a DPS wanted 5 defensive they should be able to select 5 defensive. I know I would like to try out 3 utility and 2 offensive on my wizard or cleric.

The thing is though having 2 less offensive is not really going to negatively impact your character like many are thinking.

My Fighter with 3 defensive has almost as much power as wizard who has 3 offensive. The nice thing is when I tank I have extra defensive companion bonus that I need as a tank which helps out my tank quite a bit.

cherryman1 · July 2019

The next issue right now due to how they implemented the slots is that when they do make the change everyone will have to get new companions and upgrade 1 or 2 more to legendary which the pure dps classes don't have to do.

adinosii · July 2019

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

What I want to know is why do Templocks have 3 offensive as a healer; they should have 2 utility.

It is pretty odd, yes, considering that they have a DPS and Healer paragon, just like Clerics, but different slots. I think Clerics are generally OK with their slots, by the way.

ecrana · July 2019

admiralwarlord#3792 said:
Note that if you are an end player like I am, you do not need any other status other than power (I still need some more CA, but part of that is the fault of the teammates). I could still cite other options I've been analyzing at the time of the preview test like Slyblade Kobald (Increases Encounter damage against Held targets by 10%), Paranoid Delusion (Increases At-Will damage against Held targets by 10% 4% in At-Will).

I am an end game player, I only reached this level for being competitive and always trying to improve, this causes my disappointment to increase in relation to this module, as much as it is always improving my equipment, I never get close to the final dps of some classes and I think that's the fault of the 3 offensive slots they have.

If you're endgame and can't do good damage without a very minor boost in power than I think there's another joke around here. But keep on keeping on with your "struggle".

BTW, I run with a barbie that has absolutely no issue crushing most other people's DPS. With those same slots. But I guess he just figured out how to make it work instead of trying to copy everyone else's mantra of "deepcrow/velociraptor/moooooo powa".

Joke indeed.

admiralwarlord · July 2019

I get baffled as players who do not run the class as main, enter a forum for a GWF talk about class problems. Time passes and hatred continues?

If I had the damn 3 offensive slots I would use Slyblade Kobald, Paranoid Desilusion and Siege Master in my build, since she has the focus on gaining damage. I just mentioned comrades with status to notice the difference, 2k of Power and 6k of CA, and that would not give me a burst, because as I said, I am an end player, but for those who are starting and need status, yes it is. something absurd.

Part of the class problem is also found on feats and the high cd of the encounters, but this has been mentioned previously in the preview forum many times and with promises of improvements in the future.

admiralwarlord · July 2019

ecrana#2080 said:

admiralwarlord#3792 said:
Note that if you are an end player like I am, you do not need any other status other than power (I still need some more CA, but part of that is the fault of the teammates). I could still cite other options I've been analyzing at the time of the preview test like Slyblade Kobald (Increases Encounter damage against Held targets by 10%), Paranoid Delusion (Increases At-Will damage against Held targets by 10% 4% in At-Will).

I am an end game player, I only reached this level for being competitive and always trying to improve, this causes my disappointment to increase in relation to this module, as much as it is always improving my equipment, I never get close to the final dps of some classes and I think that's the fault of the 3 offensive slots they have.
If you're endgame and can't do good damage without a very minor boost in power than I think there's another joke around here. But keep on keeping on with your "struggle".

BTW, I run with a barbie that has absolutely no issue crushing most other people's DPS. With those same slots. But I guess he just figured out how to make it work instead of trying to copy everyone else's mantra of "deepcrow/velociraptor/moooooo powa".

Joke indeed.

My damage is good but a big part of it is because I have almost everything from the best and not because my class is broken. If you run a GWF and are happy with the 3 defensive slots, okay, that's your opinion, but I do not really care about defensive slots, I'm not a tank and I will never be, what I want is for my class to reach its potential and that I have choices that please me.

Why Barbarians have just one Offense slot for companions?

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