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Can we please get harder content?

tom#6998 tom Posts: 803Member Arc User
Hello there,

we are at a point, where the game is easier then in mod 15 with all the buffs and HAMSTER we had back then.

The Bosses in Lomm die so fast, u can be happy if u even get all your encounters off, and all the dungeons below, are laughable to say the least.

How about a Master Version of Lomm where everything deals twice as much dmg, and everything has 10x more HP? I dont even need better rewards, cause they are HAMSTER anyways. Just something that maybe is a bit challenging.

/rant over

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Comments

  • wilbur626wilbur626 Posts: 189Member Arc User
    > @obsidiancran3 said:
    > lol
    >
    > So a few weeks ago we had harder content and the forums were full of "its too hard" posts.
    >
    > Now here you are saying its too easy.
    >
    > Now do you see the Dev's problem?

    Console release resulted in even more "it's too hard" posts. If players had a bit of patience, they would eventually realize that M16 content is easy once you master the art of stat balancing. It seems that 99% will cry for easier content at every change, and the devs will never be able to satisfy endgamers for this very reason.
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 803Member Arc User

    lol

    So a few weeks ago we had harder content and the forums were full of "its too hard" posts.

    Now here you are saying its too easy.

    Now do you see the Dev's problem?

    well i thouhgt makeing it easier was stupid from the start.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 365Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    > @obsidiancran3 said:

    > lol

    >

    > So a few weeks ago we had harder content and the forums were full of "its too hard" posts.

    >

    > Now here you are saying its too easy.

    >

    > Now do you see the Dev's problem?



    Console release resulted in even more "it's too hard" posts. If players had a bit of patience, they would eventually realize that M16 content is easy once you master the art of stat balancing. It seems that 99% will cry for easier content at every change, and the devs will never be able to satisfy endgamers for this very reason.

    And that exactly is the point where you are wrong.

    I said that before and I will keep saying it - all this game needs is just a adding a difficulty levels, along with rewards (even if only a tokens for a some unique stuff).

    If it remains in the point it is right now end gamers will always complain about not enaugh of end game content while new/undergeared players will complaing game is too hard.

    Just imagine that every dungeon has its super hard version and you need to complete each of them 5 times to get tokens for some cool new gear, and that gear changes with every MOD - belive me - end gamers would push for that.

    Then imagine that all dungeons have lets say 3 difficulty tiers - even new player (why not even decent solo player - there is a lot of them out there) could try easiest to learn its mechanics and playng his class.

    I might be wrong here - but I do think that having more options is always a better thing.

    And no its not a rocket science here - its easiest path bringing the most profits, and we already have basics of that already implemented in game. But for reasons I cant understand devs are not trying that. @mimicking#6533 @nitocris83 ?
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Posts: 696Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 25

    lol

    So a few weeks ago we had harder content and the forums were full of "its too hard" posts.

    Now here you are saying its too easy.

    Now do you see the Dev's problem?

    That's exactly what he said. Make some different level for same content, normal, hard, master, impossible, so everybody is happy !
  • silence1xsilence1x Posts: 1,503Member Arc User
    Treat difficulty like Diablo 3 does - Torment level (1-13 last I checked).
    I aim to misbehave
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 803Member Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Harder content = running newer content naked.

    i get your point, and it can be fun to reduce your own power level and try to beat content that way, but to me, and to the ppl i play with atleast, this is only a temporary solution. Its fun once to do Tong/Lomm/CR without companion, or without armor, or to try it only with your weapon and nothing else. But this gets old quickly (if thats different for other ppl, good for them). It kinda defeats the purpose of improving your own character, which to me is an essential part of playing an MMORPG, if the only way to get challenging content is to weaken yourself.

    I guess its the minority in Neverwinter, but im not the only one that would love to get content, that even for Players that have everything, is still barely impossible to finish.

    I know alot of ppl will say, that noone would run it, if there are no Big reward for such an effort, but to speak the truth, the time ive run dungeons to get AD is long gone (And i dont say that cause i want to show off) and there are a bunch of ppl for whom its the same. Some kind of Cosmetik, Title, or a special mount skin, would thrill me more then a bunch of AD, which i dont know how to spend anyway.
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 803Member Arc User

    tom#6998 said:

    Hello there,

    we are at a point, where the game is easier then in mod 15 with all the buffs and HAMSTER we had back then.

    The Bosses in Lomm die so fast, u can be happy if u even get all your encounters off, and all the dungeons below, are laughable to say the least.

    How about a Master Version of Lomm where everything deals twice as much dmg, and everything has 10x more HP? I dont even need better rewards, cause they are HAMSTER anyways. Just something that maybe is a bit challenging.

    /rant over

    I vote the devs make the OP happy by making a 'HAMSTER" level for dungeons. Give the bosses 100 million HP, and replace player's weapons with dead chickens that hit for 50HP max on crit. Enjoy!


    that acutally would be pretty cool xD except the dead chicken part maybe. I remember in an old SC2 mod i played the difficulty ranged from very easy to impossible, and then u could choose impossible x2 up to x100. Afaik only one group of players ever managed to beat the highest difficulty and that took them 48 hours straight (for a map that usually takes an hour or less).

    Just something on the horizon that isnt, wasd lets faceroll some buttens cause HAMSTER is easy as HAMSTER anyways.
  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Posts: 273Member Arc User
    > @gripnir78 said:
    > > @obsidiancran3 said:
    >
    > > lol
    >
    > >
    >
    > > So a few weeks ago we had harder content and the forums were full of "its too hard" posts.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Now here you are saying its too easy.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Now do you see the Dev's problem?
    >
    >
    >
    > Console release resulted in even more "it's too hard" posts. If players had a bit of patience, they would eventually realize that M16 content is easy once you master the art of stat balancing. It seems that 99% will cry for easier content at every change, and the devs will never be able to satisfy endgamers for this very reason.
    >
    > And that exactly is the point where you are wrong.
    >
    > I said that before and I will keep saying it - all this game needs is just a adding a difficulty levels, along with rewards (even if only a tokens for a some unique stuff).
    >
    > If it remains in the point it is right now end gamers will always complain about not enaugh of end game content while new/undergeared players will complaing game is too hard.
    >
    > Just imagine that every dungeon has its super hard version and you need to complete each of them 5 times to get tokens for some cool new gear, and that gear changes with every MOD - belive me - end gamers would push for that.
    >
    > Then imagine that all dungeons have lets say 3 difficulty tiers - even new player (why not even decent solo player - there is a lot of them out there) could try easiest to learn its mechanics and playng his class.
    >
    > I might be wrong here - but I do think that having more options is always a better thing.
    >
    > And no its not a rocket science here - its easiest path bringing the most profits, and we already have basics of that already implemented in game. But for reasons I cant understand devs are not trying that. @mimicking#6533 @nitocris83 ?

    And see here is the problem: endgamers or bis players make up about 10%-15% of the base(if that). The devs aren't going to make a ton of things to do for that small percentage.

    Also with adding more difficult tiered dungeons with better rewards, all that will do is have those that cant do complain that others have better gear. It segregates the game even more between bis and non-bis. I believe the devs are trying their best to prevent that.

    As for tiered dungeons with better rewards, any time I have seen that implemented, it immediately turns into a th
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 803Member Arc User
    @darkheart#6758

    yes we dont make up the Majority of the playerbase, but to have an acutall endgame that ppl can look forward to is worth alot.
    And its not all it would do, cause it would actually make those 20% of the playerbase happy.

    And as i said, i dont even want rewards that impact gameplay, they could just put some form of "prestige" in form of titles, cosmetics or whatever in there and it would still be great.

    And for the ppl that complain because they dont have gear, tbh, they can HAMSTER off.

  • rickcase276rickcase276 Posts: 1,229Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I think it all comes down to ROI. And with them having so few devs and devs hours the ROI may not be there for them to make different difficulty levels on every dungeon. In the end it makes more sense for them to make content that over 75% of the game's playerbase can/will play. Which is why they had to do the changes that they did.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 365Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Harder content = running newer content naked.

    And what you typed is nothing more then a proof that for a long time now in NWO players need to find a ways to have this game more entertaing on their own - and its issue since MOD 10 or even earlier.

    And that means that devs are missing something here.
    Bringing more options is what can save this game and keep it thrive, but what we get instead is just more grind.

    Besides how many times you gona try that before you get bored with it (no reason to do that apart of personal achivement)?
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 365Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    > @gripnir78 said:

    > > @obsidiancran3 said:

    >

    > > lol

    >

    > >

    >

    > > So a few weeks ago we had harder content and the forums were full of "its too hard" posts.

    >

    > >

    >

    > > Now here you are saying its too easy.

    >

    > >

    >

    > > Now do you see the Dev's problem?

    >

    >

    >

    > Console release resulted in even more "it's too hard" posts. If players had a bit of patience, they would eventually realize that M16 content is easy once you master the art of stat balancing. It seems that 99% will cry for easier content at every change, and the devs will never be able to satisfy endgamers for this very reason.

    >

    > And that exactly is the point where you are wrong.

    >

    > I said that before and I will keep saying it - all this game needs is just a adding a difficulty levels, along with rewards (even if only a tokens for a some unique stuff).

    >

    > If it remains in the point it is right now end gamers will always complain about not enaugh of end game content while new/undergeared players will complaing game is too hard.

    >

    > Just imagine that every dungeon has its super hard version and you need to complete each of them 5 times to get tokens for some cool new gear, and that gear changes with every MOD - belive me - end gamers would push for that.

    >

    > Then imagine that all dungeons have lets say 3 difficulty tiers - even new player (why not even decent solo player - there is a lot of them out there) could try easiest to learn its mechanics and playng his class.

    >

    > I might be wrong here - but I do think that having more options is always a better thing.

    >

    > And no its not a rocket science here - its easiest path bringing the most profits, and we already have basics of that already implemented in game. But for reasons I cant understand devs are not trying that. @mimicking#6533 @nitocris83 ?



    And see here is the problem: endgamers or bis players make up about 10%-15% of the base(if that). The devs aren't going to make a ton of things to do for that small percentage.



    Also with adding more difficult tiered dungeons with better rewards, all that will do is have those that cant do complain that others have better gear. It segregates the game even more between bis and non-bis. I believe the devs are trying their best to prevent that.



    As for tiered dungeons with better rewards, any time I have seen that implemented, it immediately turns into a th

    And thats exactly when they are wrong (devs). Let me explain:

    All idea is to make as much profit of this game as possible while keeping us players entertained.
    This is obvious cos if we are not entartianed we dont play and definatly dont spent money here.

    Now there are many different palayers groups with different expectations.
    Most peoples think that there are bassicaly 2 ways to deal with that.

    1st - find out a "blanket" solutions witch will try to cover most of basic expectations.
    2nd - try to divide player population for groups and trying to apply a differnt solution for each group.

    Those are different in both cost and effectivness. Blankets are cheap, easy and in fact not keeping any1 pleased more like not unhappy.
    Selected approach is costly, not to felixible and has a chance to leave one or more groups not included.

    There is however a 3rd options - its basicaly blanked based, but there are options to make holes in that blanket, streach it or even make a pockets in it. Blanket covers basics - options leaves a place for players to find enjoyment

    The idea of keeping a close distance between new players and veterans is not the best options, well not in NWO.

    Siede note - keep in mind that if there is no - end game dungeons/gear there is litteraly no goal or reason to play a game - in single player game we play to finish the game/get highest score - in multiplayer we play for presonal echivements but also for competition - and leaderboards/end game hard to get gear are material proofs of our acomplishments - take that away - and you can shut this game down in a month. Depriciate this like devs doing right now - and you will make veterans striped of their experience /efforts/ money spent and discourge any new comers from even trying - their effort/money also gona be wasted so why bother? Funny thing is that in most of cases players who mouth the most about how players segregation for BIS/not BIS is bad are also those one who mouth about P2W - witch in case of NWO is actually one of best ways to nullyfi those differences.


    Even after MOD 16 witch should be called Neverwinter 2.0 or Unification Mod - there are still gaps between players - and lets be honest - huge one (I am not taking into consideration an individual ability to adapt to new game mechanics etc).

    While equipment is quite easly obtainable - and pretty much similar around level 80, the real sources of toons might - companions, enchantments, mounts etc are not.

    And none of new players will be able to finish end game content after lets say 2 month of playing without substanial help of experienced party/guild or without spending tons of real money.

    I will keep saying that - even a newest player can count - so he is able to determine amounts of ADs he gone need to be decently, not to mention end game, geared. And he is also aware that he cant get more then 3KK ADs a month, and drop from dungeons he is able to finsh is pretty much insulting - that is not encouraging.

    So at this moment this game is cutting a lot of content from a new players - tons of campaigns - those are not worthy completing and lot of end game dungeons (LOMM CR even TONG) and has nothing to offer for average veteran player not to mention end gamers - we already grinded everyting out - a month ago - so see you next MOD or what?.

    In short developers choose 1st solution - a blanket model - but this blanket is in fact so tiny that it cant satysfy a basic needs of any 1.

    IMO devs did well with game mechanics rework (I know about issues, but a change was needed) now game needs a new approach to players activities otherwise it will shrink down to a measly weekend game.
    We got tons of content, maps, dungeons, most of it lay waisting.

    Creating a new content is as much important as keeping existing one entertainig for a players.



  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Posts: 696Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Gap is even bigger because mod 15 when you were a bad dps, or a poor tank, or whatever, you can still make a DC buff to be taken in dungeon and be useful.

    Now, if you are bad, its "git gud noob"
  • baronstragenbaronstragen Posts: 190Member Arc User
    edited June 26
    Well, they wouldn't have to had to make it easier if they fixed all the bugs they created. Scaling issues, bosses that moved 3 times faster than you did, constantly getting chain-controlled so you couldn't even get up, AOE's you couldn't see or they could spam. I never had to use life scrolls until Mod 16, and getting oneshot with 500K HP is irritating when your shield works as well as a pool noodle.
    Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW
    Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
    Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
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    Member of H3llzWarriors.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 3,166Member Arc User
    edited June 26
    Welcome to the world of MMOs where developers are constantly balancing the game between its to easy and its to hard.

    I rather content be FUN and engaging and if the game doesn't have that than there is an issue and it needs to be resolved.

    As someone that wants mechanic heavy content I know the struggle of actually being able to enjoy said content as players will gripe that mechanic heavy content is to hard. Look at CoDG; you really had to know how to play your character to not be knocked off when it first came out but too many players complained and it got fixed. Yet even with the fix and it being a cake way to not be knocked off; yet players still got knocked off. Go figure.

    When I played DCUO the developers released a dungeon that was mechanic heavy. It was IMO one of their better dungeons released. It didn't stay that way long as to many players complained about the mechanics and all content released after that were light on mechanics for almost 2 years. After almost 2 years of players wanting a mechanic heavy raid the developers delivered and my very first post after beating said raid asked for the easier version to be less mechanical. Since the raid had a normal and elite I asked for the elite to have more mechanics.

    You know what happened; players wanted to play elite and elite got easier. I got annoyed with that as a player as elite gear was better and it should of been much harder. After the developers made the elite raid easier it became a common place to go and some bosses on elite were easier than the normal.

    My point is developers have to cater to the masses in the game and not a select niche group. The masses are your casual players who are not on the game 3+ hours each day or having max il, etc... Content has to be designed so that these casual players can beat the content, including end game because if casual players cannot play end game the developers of a F2P game like NWO will lose money, so content needs to be a bit easier.

    If you want it harder, simply remove your enchantments or unsummon your companion and try Lomm that way.

  • dionchidionchi Posts: 807Member Arc User
    edited June 27
    :lol::lol::lol: Some players are in such a rush to level up and complete available content and acquire the best gear they can possibly get - then feel it appropriate to complain about the game being "too easy", like it's someone else's fault they don't have any suitable playable content... and I'm willing to bet lot of times these are the same players who when asked: "what color are the leaves in the tree on the right after the first mob battle?" and they wouldn't be able to answer because of their 'hack and slash and run to the next battle' playstyle.
    tom#6998 said:

    -snip-

    How about a Master Version of Lomm where everything deals twice as much dmg, and everything has 10x more HP? I dont even need better rewards, cause they are HAMSTER anyways. Just something that maybe is a bit challenging.

    /rant over

    Is playing the exact same content we've already played - only more difficult - really what anyone actually wants?

    As has been pointed out numerous times in this thread and previous threads there are ways to make game content more difficult, more challenging, for anyone who is actually interested in having more challenging game content...

    I just can't figure out why anyone would rant about the game being too easy - who at the same time appears to be unwilling take any of the steps available to them to make their game play more challenging...
    DD~
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 803Member Arc User
    edited June 27
    dionchi said:

    :lol::lol::lol: Some players are in such a rush to level up and complete available content and acquire the best gear they can possibly get - then feel it appropriate to complain about the game being "too easy", like it's someone else's fault they don't have any suitable playable content... and I'm willing to bet lot of times these are the same players who when asked: "what color are the leaves in the tree on the right after the first mob battle?" and they wouldn't be able to answer because of their 'hack and slash and run to the next battle' playstyle.

    tom#6998 said:

    -snip-

    How about a Master Version of Lomm where everything deals twice as much dmg, and everything has 10x more HP? I dont even need better rewards, cause they are HAMSTER anyways. Just something that maybe is a bit challenging.

    /rant over

    Is playing the exact same content we've already played - only more difficult - really what anyone actually wants?

    As has been pointed out numerous times in this thread and previous threads there are ways to make game content more difficult, more challenging, for anyone who is actually interested in having more challenging game content...

    I just can't figure out why anyone would rant about the game being too easy - who at the same time appears to be unwilling take any of the steps available to them to make their game play more challenging...
    how do u know i didnt take steps to make gameplay harder? In fact i did all that, i always hear that argument from ppl who are against harder content. But, as i have said in a post above, reducing your own power gets old rather quick, and yes id be happy with content that i have alrdy played to be harder. Cause atm i cant get any enjoyment out of Lomm, when its basicly only who touches the mob group first and you cant even use all your spells during boss fights.
  • r000kier000kie Posts: 453Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    /rant over

    Play naked. This game was destroyed by requests like this. I'm playing for freaking years and years, without grinding like mad (I mean still losing my life on this game, just not push the new things) and/or being in a guild of likely minded, being able to randomly team for new dungeons stopped 5 mods ago.
  • tom#6998 tom Posts: 803Member Arc User
    edited June 27
    r000kie said:

    tom#6998 said:

    /rant over

    Play naked. This game was destroyed by requests like this. I'm playing for freaking years and years, without grinding like mad (I mean still losing my life on this game, just not push the new things) and/or being in a guild of likely minded, being able to randomly team for new dungeons stopped 5 mods ago.
    this game got destroyed by makeing everything easy, just look at the steam charts
    When was the last time we had challenging content?
  • tassedethe13tassedethe13 Posts: 696Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    tom#6998 said:

    r000kie said:

    tom#6998 said:

    /rant over

    Play naked. This game was destroyed by requests like this. I'm playing for freaking years and years, without grinding like mad (I mean still losing my life on this game, just not push the new things) and/or being in a guild of likely minded, being able to randomly team for new dungeons stopped 5 mods ago.
    this game got destroyed by makeing everything easy, just look at the steam charts
    When was the last time we had challenging content?
    When mod 6 kicked out and armor penetration was bugged lol
  • greywyndgreywynd Posts: 4,215Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    tom#6998 said:


    this game got destroyed by makeing everything easy, just look at the steam charts
    When was the last time we had challenging content?

    Steam charts are only one metric and not necessarily the biggest one.
    Better to be a white knight than a knight with no honor.

    With your shield or on it.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 27
    tom#6998 said:

    @darkheart#6758

    yes we dont make up the Majority of the playerbase, but to have an acutall endgame that ppl can look forward to is worth alot.
    And its not all it would do, cause it would actually make those 20% of the playerbase happy.

    And as i said, i dont even want rewards that impact gameplay, they could just put some form of "prestige" in form of titles, cosmetics or whatever in there and it would still be great.

    And for the ppl that complain because they dont have gear, tbh, they can HAMSTER off.

    And this is exactly the problem. A load of people who were enjoying the game and looking forward to endgame from just short of it have been given a massive middle digit by the devs and shunted backwards much further away from it - For the second time (bonding nerf).

    Many of my guild (and pretty much a whole global channel) have given up and are now playing a much easier game that has come back from the dead recently. Not everybody wants more difficulty, just a vocal small minority on the forums.


    The only thing that matters is fun, and this game is no longer it.
  • rickcase276rickcase276 Posts: 1,229Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    And I still say that there is very little ROI for the devs to make the game more harder. They have to develop content that well over 75% of the player population can/will run, from an economic point of view.

    And I would still bet that for more than 80% of the people playing the game LOMM is not easy, or even doable in a reasonable amount of time. And there are too many factors that govern that.
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