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Neverwinter on primary SSD or Mechanical drive

tyraeldragontyraeldragon Posts: 89Member Arc User
HI,
This is kind of a long story but I will try to keep it short.

In my PC I had 2 Samsung SSD's, one for the OS and one for games, and one Western Digital Black high speed mechanical drive for storage. Over this week I lost both SSD's. They were acting sluggish but they lasted me 6 years so I think I got they just lived out their life since SSD's have a finite life span. Needless to say I went through 40+ hours of work trying to revive them to no avail. Some things I tried were several Windows PE boot disks and Linux boot tools like Hirens and UBCD. The final verdict they are physically damaged beyond repair.

Next I ordered a new gaming SSD, the Crucial MX-500 and should have it today. I plan on installing Windows on it and wondered if anyone else had a similar setup, i.e.. and SSD boot and second mechanical drive. I am not sure how I should install Neverwinter. Should I install it on my boot drive or on the separate mechanical drive? I am not familiar with how the game runs on a mechanical drive. If anyone has any suggestions before I get my new drive please feel free to dump them here.
Icon_Build_Player_Paladin.png?version=425daf687d67683e0250b6ec43a2ee72

Hail and Kill,
Ulfrik Dragonsyre
Hero of Neverwinter
Retribution Paladin of the realm
Member of Tyrs Palladium Guild
Raising quality Dragons for mounts and pets

Comments

  • tyraeldragontyraeldragon Posts: 89Member Arc User
    This is my mechanical drive, click here--> WD-Black

    This is the SSD I am getting, click here--> Crucial-MX-500

    The SSD is actually $39.99 on Amazon.
    Icon_Build_Player_Paladin.png?version=425daf687d67683e0250b6ec43a2ee72

    Hail and Kill,
    Ulfrik Dragonsyre
    Hero of Neverwinter
    Retribution Paladin of the realm
    Member of Tyrs Palladium Guild
    Raising quality Dragons for mounts and pets
  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Posts: 161Member Arc User
    same as with any game. things will load faster from an ssd than from a mechanical hdd. not like it won't run properly from a mechanical hdd or anything, but if you can have faster load times, why wouldn't you take that option?
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Posts: 775Member Arc User
    I have the OS on the spindisk and NW on the SSD.

    I spend maybe 30 secs extra each time I boot the PC with OS on the spindisk, compared to again and again waiting for things to load in games.

    So all my SSD space goes to applications/games. The OS will do well on the spindisk.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Posts: 1,339Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    NW creates a lot of log files so I wouldn't recommend it on an SSD unless you absolutely can't spend a couple seconds to load in. To install on the HDD, just select it's directory during installation.

    Also, are you certain that you can't use an M.2 drive?
    FrozenFire
  • rifter1969rifter1969 Posts: 495Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I have a vary similar setup.
    My Windows OS, and solely the OS is running on an SSD, while everything else is on a WD mechanical harddisk, though i have the 6TB one.
    I really do not see and performance issues, and as @frozenfirevr stated, NW has a lot logs files, and with the patching, I think the game is up to something like 16gb now.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Posts: 775Member Arc User

    I have a vary similar setup.
    My Windows OS, and solely the OS is running on an SSD, while everything else is on a WD mechanical harddisk, though i have the 6TB one.
    I really do not see and performance issues, and as @frozenfirevr stated, NW has a lot logs files, and with the patching, I think the game is up to something like 16gb now.

    The OS also is writing a lot of stuff to disk while it works. So I could not say whether the OS or NW is the most write intensive program.
  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Posts: 161Member Arc User
    log files aren't a huge issue. my games ssd is going on 9yr old and still in great shape, it's had STO on it, it's had NW on it, WT, WoT, it has a couple virtual hdd's on it for virtual machines, and i store my irc logs on it as well. pc's on 24/7, there's no point in the day it's not being written to. really shouldn't be a concern.
  • nathanjmnathanjm Posts: 96Member Arc User
    If you've got the space, and are playing, 100% SSD. Every time. Makes things so much faster. If you installed NW (or any other game) via Steam, I like http://www.traynier.com/software/steammover to (transparently) move things between the SSD and HD. Less-played stuff gets relegated to the HD, no reinstall needed.
  • aganwayaganway Posts: 156Member Arc User
    Before I stopped playing I housed Neverwinter on my mechanical drive (E for me) and just was using my SSD (C for me) for my operating system, the game ran perfectly fine for me and was fast as could be with no problems at any stage, and my CW was very fast bouncing around everywhere not getting hit with extremely fast cooldowns/animations and sort-of-maxed movement speed and an extremely responsive toon, so I would have noticed it if it was less than instant in operation and moved it to the SSD but I never needed to.
  • sandukutupusandukutupu Posts: 1,056Member Arc User
    edited June 11

    NW creates a lot of log files so I wouldn't recommend it on an SSD unless you absolutely can't spend a couple seconds to load in. To install on the HDD, just select it's directory during installation.

    Also, are you certain that you can't use an M.2 drive?

    My husband notice all the superficial .log files and made the first line of the start up script to delete all of them. I think it adds 2 each time.

    I have a vary similar setup.
    My Windows OS, and solely the OS is running on an SSD, while everything else is on a WD mechanical harddisk, though i have the 6TB one.
    I really do not see and performance issues, and as @frozenfirevr stated, NW has a lot logs files, and with the patching, I think the game is up to something like 16gb now.

    I have over 25 GB in my folder. I don't know how much issue is caused by read/writes to a SSD, but I know running linux causes a lot swap file area being used. I can't ask my husband at present, but when he get home tonight I will try to remember to ask about the SSD versus HDD installation. I know this desktop and my laptop both have a single HDD. My laptop is Windows 10 and just became unbearable to play NW on it. This desktop boots up fast and runs pretty well.
    zorg-siggy.png
  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,494Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 11

    NW creates a lot of log files so I wouldn't recommend it on an SSD unless you absolutely can't spend a couple seconds to load in. To install on the HDD, just select it's directory during installation.

    Also, are you certain that you can't use an M.2 drive?

    Omg an M.2 drive is still an ssd drive LOLZ !omg it is the interface that is different...so you are still recomending an ssd drive

    and never winter writing a few tiny logs file to your drive can hardly be considered wear in the grand scheme of things
    for what an new ssd drive rated for multiple terabytes per day

    really bad/ confused advice Friend ...

    An M.2 SSD is a solid-state drive (SSD) that conforms to a computer industry specification written for internally mounted storage expansion cards of a small form factor. ... M.2 SSDs are designed to enable high-performance storage in thin, power-constrained devices, such as ultrabook and tablet computers.
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,494Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 11
    @tyraeldragon

    1. I find it very unlikely that 2 ssd drive both died at the same time independently of each other
    you should be running hard disk sentinel software on all your drives new or old to determine health /bytes written/ temp expected lifespan etc

    It is just blatant irresponsibility for people not to monitor the health of their drives and then just shrug and throw their hands up when they die saying golly geez there is nothing i could have done there was no way to know....when in fact there was a way to know and have early warning signs given to you to backup / etc

    If both your drives really did die /wore at the same time ( again a very very low likelyhood ) you might have a power / overheating related issue . or controller issue /..that will zap / effect the new drives as well

    you need to download run the trim magician software for your samsung drives ( there is always a 7-10% reserve space to remap ) and a firmware update is available i am sure as well
    then check their health with hard disk sentinel ..then tell me/ confirm they are dead

    ssd drives acting sluggish need to be possibly re trimmed and no more 70-80 % full max
    died and/ or acting sluggish are also 2 entirely different things .. you might want to clarify that for us ,,
    you also might have delayed write caching toggle on / off for the drive which would also effect performance btw

  • kvetkvet Posts: 2,698Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 11
    Older SSDs did suffer from relatively short lifetimes, but the technology has come a long way over the last 10 years or so.

    A typical new SSD should have a lifespan that will significantly outlast that of your computer (measured in decades if not hundreds of years of average use), so unless you're doing some really intense I/O that is running write cycles constantly 24 hours a day (not sure what that would be... running maybe something like bitcoin farming with inadequate memory resulting in heavy swap? *shrug*) then your SSD should work easily. NOT ALL SSDs ARE THE SAME. How long they last depends on a number of factors, but if you get a halfway decent one and you're not abusing it with abnormally large numbers of write cycles, you shouldn't have a problem.

  • hotfrostwormhotfrostworm Posts: 6Member Arc User
    Hey there, I am Wendy's husband. I recommend installing to the SSD, I am assuming @frozenfirevr is concerned about fragmentation. While file fragmentation will occur on a SSD the HDD will suffer more so than the SSD from patching files. Assuming you are using any Windows based OS set up a batch or command file to run "del *.log /y" and make sure you run it from within the same directory as the log files. Otherwise you could just manually delete the annoying log files once a week, if you don't wish to use a mass delete command. They are tiny text only files and no effect on the game play.

    On average the pros of the SSD out weigh the cons. Low power, no noise, no vibration, faster, and no heat produced. The original poster said the drive failed after 6 years. The average life expectancy of a HDD is 4.5 years and much longer on the SSD as it has been widely debated. Some conclude that a SSD should last for a decade or more, there is no test data available to prove this as SSD are still a young technology.

    Solid-state drives DO NOT require defragmentation. It may decrease the lifespan of the drive. Wear leveling technology purposely "fragments" the data to ensure the consistent life of the drive. All this does not however mean that SSDs are the ideal, care-free storage solution. File fragmentation can still cause index errors to occur and will result in the loss of data. However we are talking about a game that saves on a server side database, anything "lost" can be downloaded in the next patch.
  • groo#6243 groo Posts: 37Member Arc User
    Instead of buying a new drive, why not buy the 4th? edition D&D rule book, some dice, a pad and some pencils. Get a few friends around and then you can enjoy Neverwinter in all its glory without the worry of SSD life spans (well, maybe pencil lifespans instead)!
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,934Member Arc User

    same as with any game. things will load faster from an ssd than from a mechanical hdd. not like it won't run properly from a mechanical hdd or anything, but if you can have faster load times, why wouldn't you take that option?

    A hybrid drive provides best of both worlds. Faster load time over a HDD and higher storage at a cheaper cost when compared to SSD. When I bought my hybrid drive the SSD max capacity was around 50GB with the HDD being 1TB.

    Now you can get hybrid drives with 128SSD and 2TB or if you want more storage than you can get a hybrid drive with 256SSD and 4TB.

    I know a SSD is faster than a hybrid drive; however if cost is a concern I would go hybrid. If cost is not a concern I would go get the fastest and largest SSD.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Posts: 1,339Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    > @kalina311 said:
    > Omg an M.2 drive is still an ssd drive LOLZ !omg it is the interface that is different...so you are still recomending an ssd drive
    >
    > and never winter writing a few tiny logs file to your drive can hardly be considered wear in the grand scheme of things
    > for what an new ssd drive rated for multiple terabytes per day
    >
    > really bad/ confused advice Friend ...
    >
    > An M.2 SSD is a solid-state drive (SSD) that conforms to a computer industry specification written for internally mounted storage expansion cards of a small form factor. ... M.2 SSDs are designed to enable high-performance storage in thin, power-constrained devices, such as ultrabook and tablet computers.

    Wow dude... You seriously think I'm unaware that its still solid state? M2 offers MUCH better performance than regular SATA SSDs that he said he was purchasing. Maybe give that a thought before ridiculing somebody.

    Also, size isn't the only thing that matters, the quantum of files has an effect too, especially if you're frequently deleting them. Some drives are able to even out the cell damage but not all.
    FrozenFire
  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,494Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 14
    @frozenfirevr

    This discussion was not about which ssd type was the fastest rather if ssd was viable to use with all these " log files never winter was writing" this is an endurance based question not a performance one if you have enough ram/ tier 2 storage the whole game gets cached there anyways

    you only twisted it to be about what type was the fastest in you response to me

    the m.2 ssds cost 3 -5 times as much as the regular ssd for the same size and are hardly needed to run neverwinter ..
    its highly unlikely that the post creator that has first generation 6 year old ssds installed on his system has a modern m.2 interface

    you did not explain why you would not recommend a regual 2.5 inch sata ssd clearly in your first confusing statement and are now back pedaling /adding
    this double negative sentence you wrote below makes no sense

    "NW creates a lot of log files so I wouldn't recommend it on an SSD unless you absolutely can't spend a couple seconds to load in. To install on the HDD"


    so break that statement down for me
    Here you say you dont recommend an ssd unless you are impatient to wait the time loading ..and to install it on a hard disk ..so you recommend a regular hdd and to make it slower then he was used to / had? or to splurge on an expensive m.2 ssd

    and if you are impatient for loading times you only recommend and m.2 drive the fastest around no middle ground right?


  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Posts: 161Member Arc User
    edited June 14
    for the record, i'm still using sata2 generation ssd's for games ( with my boot drive being a sata3 ssd ), because i have them, they work, and they're faster than hdd's, and i'm doing that on an i7-6700 with an msi z170 motherboard that does support m.2 pcie, because why throw money at a fancy drive when the ones i have are plenty fast enough for what i use them for.

    as for the line about " Some drives are able to even out the cell damage but not all. ", the guy explicitly said he's talking about a crucial mx500, which definitely has the ability. it's not like he's talking about some cheap bottom of the barrel ssd from alibaba or wish running with a substandard controller to make it cheap-as-chips, so that line's entirely redundant.
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Posts: 1,339Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    kalina311 said:

    @frozenfirevr

    This discussion was not about which ssd type was the fastest rather if ssd was viable to use with all these " log files never winter was writing" this is an endurance based question not a performance one if you have enough ram/ tier 2 storage the whole game gets cached there anyways

    you only twisted it to be about what type was the fastest in you response to me

    the m.2 ssds cost 3 -5 times as much as the regular ssd for the same size and are hardly needed to run neverwinter ..
    its highly unlikely that the post creator that has first generation 6 year old ssds installed on his system has a modern m.2 interface

    you did not explain why you would not recommend a regual 2.5 inch sata ssd clearly in your first confusing statement and are now back pedaling /adding
    this double negative sentence you wrote below makes no sense

    "NW creates a lot of log files so I wouldn't recommend it on an SSD unless you absolutely can't spend a couple seconds to load in. To install on the HDD"


    so break that statement down for me
    Here you say you dont recommend an ssd unless you are impatient to wait the time loading ..and to install it on a hard disk ..so you recommend a regular hdd and to make it slower then he was used to / had? or to splurge on an expensive m.2 ssd

    and if you are impatient for loading times you only recommend and m.2 drive the fastest around no middle ground right?


    *sigh*

    Go back and read what I said.

    "Also, are you certain that you can't use an M.2 drive?"

    I don't know what times you're referring to, but there are multiple M.2 drives at the same price the OP is spending at the same capacity from the same brands even. There's absolutely no reason not to use one if he has the slot. M.2 is hardly modern, it has already lost the race even. It is absolutely possible for the OP to have the slot (and reusing old disks on upgraded systems is VERY common). Hence I ASKED the darned question, so that he can get better value for his money. And, I've never not recommended getting an SSD.

    I don't need to twist HAMSTER for you. Go lie down for a bit.

    *drops mic*
    FrozenFire
  • hitchslappedhitchslapped Posts: 161Member Arc User
    as for m.2 drives, it's worthwhile if your mobo's m.2 support includes pcie NVMe. if on the other hand, it doesn't, then the older m.2 standard will cost you a sata slot if you use an m.2 drive. not a concern if you're not using them all anyway, but something to bear in mind when considering things.
  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,494Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 14
    @frozenfirevr
    compare a samsung 970 pro 1tb m.2 and a sumsung 860 1 tb ssd sata
    and dont tell me there is not a 4 x 5 price difference

    dont try and compare poor quality slow speed low endurance m,2 brands as you argument that they cost the same as ssds

    "I don't know what times you're referring to, but there are multiple M.2 drives at the same price the OP is spending at the same capacity "

    Really name them then ... same price and capacity ? and same quality ???

    *drops mic*

    1. tell me of this m.2 brand you are advising to get then that is the same size that is cheaper then the ssd the Op should get
    cracker jack brand m.2 ssd lol

    2. so what brand and size are you recommending and using then ?

    Price capacity performance wear endurance and guarantee are the criteria that I consider that you may chose to ignore or not
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Posts: 1,339Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    *picks up the mic one last time*
    kalina311 said:

    @frozenfirevr
    compare a samsung 970 pro 1tb m.2 and a sumsung 860 1 tb ssd sata
    and dont tell me there is not a 4 x 5 price difference

    That fact that you're trying to compare 860 EVO to 970 PRO says a lot about what you're trying to achieve. But let me indulge you, 1TB of 860 EVO costs $138 while a 970 EVO costs $240. Also, 860 PRO costs $280 with the 970 PRO being $298.

    So yes, even by your comparison they are nowhere even 2x the price, let alone 4-5x. Intel 660p - $100, HP EX900 - $110, Crucial P1 - $118, Corsair MP510 - $130.
    kalina311 said:

    dont try and compare poor quality slow speed low endurance m,2 brands as you argument that they cost the same as ssds

    "I don't know what times you're referring to, but there are multiple M.2 drives at the same price the OP is spending at the same capacity "

    Really name them then ... same price and capacity ? and same quality ???

    *drops mic*

    OP's drive of choice: Crucial MX500 - $60 (he might have found a sale for the $40, but nothing at the moment). Crucial P1 - $67, Intel 660p - $60, Silicon Power P34A80 - $60.
    kalina311 said:

    1. tell me of this m.2 brand you are advising to get then that is the same size that is cheaper then the ssd the Op should get
    cracker jack brand m.2 ssd lol

    2. so what brand and size are you recommending and using then ?

    Price capacity performance wear endurance and guarantee are the criteria that I consider that you may chose to ignore or not

    I said it was cheaper? lol, okay...

    I was giving brand and size suggestions? lol, okay...
    FrozenFire
  • kalina311kalina311 Posts: 1,494Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited June 15
    @frozenfirevr

    my only strategy was to keep you typing and make you research drive prices and it worked lol j/k
    you are comparing lost leader prices and promotions and confusing full retail boxes pricing with oem : D


    OP's drive of choice: Crucial MX500 - $60
    samsung 970 pro m.2 300 buck on sale (normally 400 bucks) not talking what country you are in or the exchange rate di d you even consider that ?

    300/60 = 5 times the price difference bro !!! just like i said (yes it is not that if he chooses some crappy mid range M.2 drive )

    all the drives you quoted are lower performing drives with half the warrantee heck one of them is not even a full 1tb
    we not comparing apples to apples here are we
    I suggest you go to

    https://ssd.userbenchmark.com


    lesson to be learned not all M.2 drives are equal in performance at all and dont be fooled by misleading cheap prices
    guess I was comparing high end ones to your proposed low mid /ranged ones sorry for the confusion

    agree to disagree : D
    we get what we pay for


    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • frozenfirevrfrozenfirevr Posts: 1,339Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    edited June 16
    kalina311 said:

    @frozenfirevr

    my only strategy was to keep you typing and make you research drive prices and it worked lol j/k
    you are comparing lost leader prices and promotions and confusing full retail boxes pricing with oem : D


    OP's drive of choice: Crucial MX500 - $60
    samsung 970 pro m.2 300 buck on sale (normally 400 bucks) not talking what country you are in or the exchange rate di d you even consider that ?

    300/60 = 5 times the price difference bro !!! just like i said (yes it is not that if he chooses some crappy mid range M.2 drive )

    all the drives you quoted are lower performing drives with half the warrantee heck one of them is not even a full 1tb
    we not comparing apples to apples here are we
    I suggest you go to

    https://ssd.userbenchmark.com


    lesson to be learned not all M.2 drives are equal in performance at all and dont be fooled by misleading cheap prices
    guess I was comparing high end ones to your proposed low mid /ranged ones sorry for the confusion

    agree to disagree : D
    we get what we pay for


    Dude... Seriously? You want to get the absolute best SSDs while any NVMe would be better than what he is getting? Do you even hear yourself? Exchange rate? When I'm giving links to a US store and quoting in $? :lol: Ran out of things to say?

    And I completely expected you'd say that. I watch them, no research needed. If it's going to help somebody somewhere, I absolutely don't mind, and I atleast got to see and show what you are.

    Btw, you chose to make a jump from 860's price to MX500? Compare something that was never in the race for top performance with something that can still hold its own? Good job. And just to say, 970's MRP is $350, but sure, go ahead and get it for 400 bucks somewhere.

    Thread being closed since the OP got his answer and thread is just being dragged down by ego.
    FrozenFire
This discussion has been closed.