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Undermountain Owlbear Patch Notes: NW.110.20190519a.2

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  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    I tried to fight for other things. Let's be honest that snail and Sigil were not classically nerfed, only when mod16 dropped on the live , they were "adjusted", like my lion.
    Envenomed storyteller - nerfed now or after more than a month of playing, so I have the right to believe that this is aimed against my class
    However, you can't compare sigil and storyteller, because the first one did not require any effort to get it, nor was there any promise to be updated
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,415 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    mushellka said:

    I tried to fight for other things. Let's be honest that snail and Sigil were not classically nerfed, only when mod16 dropped on the live , they were "adjusted", like my lion.
    Envenomed storyteller - nerfed now or after more than a month of playing, so I have the right to believe that this is aimed against my class
    However, you can't compare sigil and storyteller, because the first one did not require any effort to get it, nor was there any promise to be updated


    It took 1 month but it needed adjustment because the intention was to not able spam dailies. Thats why they nerfed all ap gain items. IS not the end of the world..
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    I don't know what spam you mean?
    Wizards have such long cooldowns at encounters that our dailly should be called weekly...
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    lardeson said:

    Part of the problem is Proc based dps. Wizards, Rangers, Rogues, and Barbarians all have some form of proc based DPS. These are usually tied to Feats, Class Features, or a combination of both.

    Lets takes Wizard/Thaumaturge for example, they have the Class Feature "Critical Conflagration" which procs smolder on a critical hit, then combine that with the capstone feat "Focus Flames" (iirc the name) and boom, we have high burst proc based dps. With builds based on this combo, smolder is about 30-50% of all damage done. And the cherry on top, the At-Will Ray of Frost ticks really really fast. This is what is causing Wizards to do really good damage. And this is why the formula for Magnitude/Cool Down Time/Casting Time/etc is broken, because not all damage comes from the base damage of encounters, dailies, and at-wills. (note: this is also why arcanist is inherently inferior to thaumaturge for both aoe and single target. SS can only proc 30% of the time on crits for proc based burst damage (a 15% proc rate), while critical conflag procs 100% of the time on crits (a 50% proc rate.)

    Combine the issue with proc based DPS to some classes with poorly designed feats, and we have the situation we are in now.

    For classes and paragon paths that don't have proc based dps from one source or the other, feats and class features should be changed to either provide some sort of equivalent, increase Magnitude of all powers or at least a variety of them, and/or decrease cooldown timers (HR uses this heavily, hence why they are better shape compared to some other dps classes).

    those numbers are off, rimefire smolder can indeed do about 25% on aoe but on bosses its about 5-8%, on the otherhand repel which is an encounter does about 15-20 on aoe and 25 on bosses, that clearly beats rimefire smolder, i have tested this with act and if you want a log, pme ingame we run and i'll send you the log. flames is only great in aoe, its not as much as u are assuming on bosses, every other encounter do more damage than it on bosses.

    Also thats not why arcanist is inferior to thaum lol, arcanist is inferior to thaum cos in arcanist you dont have relative hated, chilling advantage. your encounters are relatively higher. Secondly no ap gain on cw, if we had ap gain, even with DF and CC, arcanist would be superior due to arcane empowerment, the lack of ap and lack of cd reduction on arcane is why its currently inferior to thaum no because of smolder
    I can show you too :) This is the boss fight at the end of Shores of Tuern. I solo'd it so the numbers are skewed, I had to keep dodging and couldn't spam Ray of Frost as often as I'd like. I didn't hold back on encounters, I used the same rotation as I usually do, except, like I said, I had to keep dodging so I couldn't stand still and focus RoF on him.

    34% of all damage was from procing Crit Conflag + Directed Flames Buddy B)



  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    edited May 2019

    With single target spells is not more than 15% for me.



    And lots of times others go ahead in dps in the run killing everything in 1 rotation but I end first after Boss fights.



    People that do more dps than me usually has 40k-50k more power and I am at 150k.



    I dont know what Will happen when they double the stats on enchants but in the BIS world is ridiculous already.

    do you have directed flames feat? who are you in game if you want you can run with me.
    Yes I have directed flames. Today I did some LoMM tests, and all were the same 30% from rhimefire. I dont track every run but I remember perfectly that 15-16%, it was like 2 weeks ago. Maybe I was still trying things and was with MM instead Ray of Frost but IDK.

    Also I remember near 50% when using Icy Terrain.

    Will do more test tho
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    mushellka said:

    Do you really think that the Envenomed storyteller should be equivalent to the DC sigil?
    I don't understand your thinking, people.
    Why the hell instead of asking for corrections for your classes, dailly and artifacts, you prefer to shout for nerf something / someone else?

    Its not equivalent, thats the reason it has a STUPID 3.4 stun along with damage and other staff which devoted sigil doesnt have.

  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    lardeson said:

    i find tanks to be completely useless, the aggro meter is bugged and the top dps ends up getting aggro most of the time, so whats the point running with a tank? just take 2 heals and gtg.

    I’ve said plenty about tanks in other targeted threads, but the aggro meter isn’t busted like dps usually think. It just doesn’t work the way players expect. It’s a monitor for who has aggro on the specific target being viewed, that’s all. You generate aggro on what you hit, if you don’t hit it you don’t get any aggro. So if the dps is targeting X critter and the tank hasn’t targeted it/damaged it recently, yes the DPS has aggro on it.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    nerfing the envenomed journal was necessary...it was simply too good to be reasonable - provided too much of a difference between those who have it and those who don't.

    the doubling of the enchantment stats is good - it basically reverts a part of the 1:500 to 1:1000 change.

    However, it is still too easy to cap stats. I would like to see a 10-15% reduction of all stats provided by armor...or maybe better, removal of the "combined" stats.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    > @pariswinters#7118 said:
    > Enemies and Encounters
    >
    > Enemies can now aggro on players up to 20 levels above them, increased from 7.
    >
    >
    > why? what inspired this? this means that now instead of bypassing all the trashy little mobs that are below my level i have to waste time fighting every single one because they will all aggro on me now.
    >
    > what justifies this change?????

    The fact that there is no more scaling for campaigns, Sharandar and maze engine being the low end, they didn't want us to just bypass everything in specific content like instanced quests.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    All current patches and this patch is what consoles will be getting. Hopefully this works at intended on PC or you may have to push the console release back a few more weeks.

    Just watching in game chat on PS4, more players are asking for this push back date to happen next year after you work out all of the bugs and issues. More players are unhappy about what is coming to consoles than what is on consoles. If you don't believe me, go ask players in the actual game in chat and actually read what players want. Not all players are like this, some want mod 16 but the majority of what I see don't want it unless it is a functional mod where progression still matters and complexity is still a thing.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    nerfing the envenomed journal was necessary...it was simply too good to be reasonable - provided too much of a difference between those who have it and those who don't.



    It was an award for end-game players who put in a lot of effort to get it. It should have been better. Do you think our work should only be rewarded with worthless items from Mods 5-8?
    I can agree that the amount of action points it gave was a little exaggerated and needed to be corrected. But not just to become another piece of HAMSTER. I feel like I'm being tricked once again.


    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User

    adinosii said:

    nerfing the envenomed journal was necessary...it was simply too good to be reasonable - provided too much of a difference between those who have it and those who don't.



    the doubling of the enchantment stats is good - it basically reverts a part of the 1:500 to 1:1000 change.



    However, it is still too easy to cap stats. I would like to see a 10-15% reduction of all stats provided by armor...or maybe better, removal of the "combined" stats.

    they invalidated any offense enchant except radiant. some of my toons this didnt affect (cleric, paladin) but it hurt all my other classes severely. there are too much stats coming from gear, period.
    Yeah, I lost about 10 mil ad worth from my tri-stat enchants going down in price by about 40%, m16 wasn't nice to my bank of ad. Not even counting how I needed to rank up several other companions and weapon/armor enchant changes, and how 90% of all the artifacts I had at mythic are now worthless except for a fraction of rp that went into them. Still biting the bullet and trying to get my radiants up to at least r14 (mostly at r12 now). If they were to suddenly reduce stats from gear, and make tri-stat enchants needed to balance stats, I would be pissed, then I'd lose a bunch more ad trying to switch back, so I really hope they don't do that any time soon, it would destroy me financially (in game that is).

  • eoleeeolee Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    A given player playing a given dps class will always say that class doesnt do enough dmg. That being said, i found that almost all dps classes perform about same, just depends on the hands playing the class. Not fighter though. But it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. I have yet to meet a good fighter dreadnought.

    Most barbarians I see are still using pre mod16 rotation, i have not a wide knowledge of barbarians but judging by magnitude or feats of some of those, i dont think its good? I've seen barbarians matching dps of some good wizards too. So it's possible I believe? I've seen some warlocks ditching very good amount of damage too. There's this famous Youtuber ranger in my guild still outperforming anyone on a ranger... People are crying about Thaum and Directed flames, but there's a couple of Arcanist out there outperforming Thaum too on ST... I cant quote players names but they do exist. My point is that maybe its a matter of which hands are playing the class instead of the class itself in most case (yet again i doubt that fighter dreadnought can perform same as other dps paths, no clue). People think Arbiter is bad, but I can outdps or match dps of some dps on my arbiter too. Maybe those people met bad Arbiters and think therefore all Arbiters are Hamster?

    Before asking for nerfs and crying a given class underperform, make sure the sample of that given class is wide enough and that it has been made sure that the class can't be good in the hands of a single person. Which is clearly not the case lately. We can all find a very good wizard a very good barb a very good ranger a very good warlock and a good trickster and a good arbiter. Some classes need more attention than others, because they got forgotten in the process of preview of mod 16 (barbarians, trickster, ranger). But they still can perform well is my point.

    That very good thing about Master Expeditions: the lack of paingiver chart. And can LoMM be completed with only melees? of course. Isnt it all that matters? That the given content is completed? Or is that "Mine is bigger" feeling something deeply human that some players cant get rid of, which is gonna lead to a forever crying and demand of nerfs of other til that given class is at the top of the leaderboard.





  • wilsonekpolskawilsonekpolska Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    Hello i play as main DPS GF and i must say he is much more less dmg then other dps bcs of some bugs who u fix and I respect and appreciate that but most of class featuers on gf and his feats are mostly bad if u could change his last class featuer who give 5% dmg to give 10% dmg and give him little big boost and i think GF should have 3 dps companion slots like other dps Barbi should have it too
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    terramak said:



    Cleric

    • The at-will "Sacred Flame" now deals 70 magnitude damage, up from 65.
    • The at-will "Lance of Faith" now deals 80 magnitude damage, up from 75.



      Why not make sacred flame give burning pips like it did on preview?
      And i would prefer 100x a cast time reduction on lance of faith than a 5 magnitude increase, and i think most clerics have the same thoughts.

      And btw Daunting light is probably the most hated dmg encounter the clerics have

  • jerel93jerel93 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Any date of this patch on live server ?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,719 Arc User
    jerel93 said:

    Any date of this patch on live server ?

    We know this is going live for consoles, so best guess is sometime before the 18th for PC.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User

    With single target spells is not more than 15% for me.



    And lots of times others go ahead in dps in the run killing everything in 1 rotation but I end first after Boss fights.



    People that do more dps than me usually has 40k-50k more power and I am at 150k.



    I dont know what Will happen when they double the stats on enchants but in the BIS world is ridiculous already.

    do you have directed flames feat? who are you in game if you want you can run with me.
    Yes I have directed flames. Today I did some LoMM tests, and all were the same 30% from rhimefire. I dont track every run but I remember perfectly that 15-16%, it was like 2 weeks ago. Maybe I was still trying things and was with MM instead Ray of Frost but IDK.

    Also I remember near 50% when using Icy Terrain.

    Will do more test tho
    @mamalion1234

    I did more tests yesterday in LoMM. Clearing trash with a good group (far from best players I encountered but still clearing fast) my damage from rhimefire was 16-18% in 2 runs.

    After bosses the global damage was 29%. So I suppose this was taking data from partial runs. I assume that the more use of ray of frost is the cause of so much rhimefire dmg.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
  • jacob#6986 jacob Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    purple insignia do not drop in game, so rare now no one can expect to make a legendary without buying zen, then hopefully the box might drop 1 super rare too. there needs to be an in game opertunity for purple insignia, just look in auction house at the price fixing its outragious
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    The thing Wizards have is synergy.

    Its actually fairly easy with Thaum to throw together a build that has good synergy, "pick all feats that mess with Smolder, slot Smolder Passives, Kill stuff". So players of a range of skill levels can access good performance from their class. This is good, it is one of the goals we were given for Mod 16.

    The problem is finding that same synergy in other classes is hard.

    Its not that good players cannot get amazing performance out of each class, on the contrary, but that wasn't the goal. The goal was to make it easier for average players to make their own builds and have them work well. Only Wizard really offers clear strategies to do that (even if in only 1 of its Paragons).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    I see GWF, Warlocks and TRs doing better each day, seems that they are figuring how to optimize damage output. I still see sometimes bad players with insane IL, and bad CWs too.

    People want everything the first days, the changes are massive and some classes requiere more work to do their best.

    For example I couldnt make Arcanist work the first week, but the more I play the class, the more damage I can do with it but it requires more concentration. Maybe in 2 months we are all using Arcanist, people tends to be lazy when something works more or less.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    krymkac said:

    Ppl who claim warlocks have a healer role need to run lomm with sw as only healer. Without lifescrolls & health stones. Any endgame content really, lomm being just the most glaring example. Soulweaver's best healing encounter has only 400 magnitude & requires soul sparks to use. Nothing to hit = no sparks = no healing (Hello, lomm 2nd boss). Only cleansing power damages the user and only cleanse others but not the warlock himself. Now look at the selection of healing powers op/dc have. Temp hp/shielding powers. Still gonna tell us with a straight face sw can heal hence should shup up and be happy with current dps/healing balance?

    Did 3 or 4 runs yesterday with SW solo heals and in one of the runs 0 deaths. so yh?
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User

    lardeson said:

    Part of the problem is Proc based dps. Wizards, Rangers, Rogues, and Barbarians all have some form of proc based DPS. These are usually tied to Feats, Class Features, or a combination of both.

    Lets takes Wizard/Thaumaturge for example, they have the Class Feature "Critical Conflagration" which procs smolder on a critical hit, then combine that with the capstone feat "Focus Flames" (iirc the name) and boom, we have high burst proc based dps. With builds based on this combo, smolder is about 30-50% of all damage done. And the cherry on top, the At-Will Ray of Frost ticks really really fast. This is what is causing Wizards to do really good damage. And this is why the formula for Magnitude/Cool Down Time/Casting Time/etc is broken, because not all damage comes from the base damage of encounters, dailies, and at-wills. (note: this is also why arcanist is inherently inferior to thaumaturge for both aoe and single target. SS can only proc 30% of the time on crits for proc based burst damage (a 15% proc rate), while critical conflag procs 100% of the time on crits (a 50% proc rate.)

    Combine the issue with proc based DPS to some classes with poorly designed feats, and we have the situation we are in now.

    For classes and paragon paths that don't have proc based dps from one source or the other, feats and class features should be changed to either provide some sort of equivalent, increase Magnitude of all powers or at least a variety of them, and/or decrease cooldown timers (HR uses this heavily, hence why they are better shape compared to some other dps classes).

    those numbers are off, rimefire smolder can indeed do about 25% on aoe but on bosses its about 5-8%, on the otherhand repel which is an encounter does about 15-20 on aoe and 25 on bosses, that clearly beats rimefire smolder, i have tested this with act and if you want a log, pme ingame we run and i'll send you the log. flames is only great in aoe, its not as much as u are assuming on bosses, every other encounter do more damage than it on bosses.

    Also thats not why arcanist is inferior to thaum lol, arcanist is inferior to thaum cos in arcanist you dont have relative hated, chilling advantage. your encounters are relatively higher. Secondly no ap gain on cw, if we had ap gain, even with DF and CC, arcanist would be superior due to arcane empowerment, the lack of ap and lack of cd reduction on arcane is why its currently inferior to thaum no because of smolder
    Lets be honest and dont hide the true numbers. .

    this is from trobriand in lair of mad mage.
    i already sent a screenshot to quickfoot, u can ask him for it, not sure how u guys get those numbers, i dont get those ever, i use directed flames too, and most of the time im between 14-19 from rimefire smolder. Now lets not already forget that something important to remember here is 50% crit chance, so yes, if you do 20 crits in dungeon while i do 10, you obviously gonna get more from rimefire cos its only strenght is from crits, if it doesn't crit, its only as good as any other feat. And i repeat myself, if you are relying on getting 30+ from rimefire to dps, u are doing something wrong with ur cw. Like i stated before, if only they'd fix the lack of ap gain without us having to rely on artifacts to get ap, then i see no reason why arcanist shouldn't be better on bosses. on bosses i never go over 8% from rimefire so when i see 30+ on bosses i honestly dont know how u guys do it xd, but im glad i dont have to rely on that to dps so im cool, if you happy with ur numbers, lovely, i dont want to see 30%+ of my damage being from a class feature.
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • c1k4ml3kc3c1k4ml3kc3 Member Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    To all and everyone who complains about Wizard DPS in MOD16, to the nine hells with you several times a day throughout the week. I will personally call 4 wizards, all with 400.000 HP, and boons that increase party hp based on pots consumed (AoE hp boon), and all will wear shields on spell mastery just for lulz to mess with all you silly tanks who can't even raise a shield to protect a group or intentionally stand on runes you can't avoid, thus reducing entire team's power by 20-30% in Master Expedition. Learn to play instead to be angry @ Wizards for no apparent reason other than that someone asked for them specifically due to their ranged properties.

    Now, on to the more pressing matters:

    I was afraid that Stories of Old gear will become obsolete as soon as MOD 16 hits. I am very glad that I haven't lose my highly prized and loved gear I got from previous two events. And I do hope that they will remain highly, highly, highly, highly usable and spot-on throughout the year.
    Stories of Old gear is amazing because it is not the best in DPS nor BiS for the most part. Yet, it should be because it takes an entire year to collect it. In fact, each piece of it should add an extra Attribute and this should be something that all people lean towards to, whilst keeping Masterwork items one or two levels above.

    1. Envenomed Journal should not be nerfed nor it makes any sense to do so, especially since people are still using 10 mods old Artifacts as a part of their playstyle (like Orcus set or DC Sigil). If you seek progress, old sets should be obsolete and not viable even in MOD 16. This is an oversight of the developer's team due to the items that give bonus %dmg, thus keeping them viable for anyone with high enough power. They should be giving 2.500 Power, each in contrast to new Artifacts that give 3.000 power, losing 2.000 power in the process, but still being usable as DPS option. Some of us like to have options like that that won't put us in a fish can where we only have one or two options at most. I though that the idea is to move away from such builds and bring more diversity, especially with control being back on the table.

    2. Envenomed Journal as well as other parts of the Stories of Old sets should be ALWAYS on par with latest/highest equipment options available because they are representing a year-round highest prize in my opinion. And it was not easy to gather it all in hard runs. The prize should meet with the bonuses.

    3. Just because some new players can't obtain them, that doesn't mean that older players who did obtain them have to lose everything. As it is mentioned before, some items are Limited Event items and as such they are no longer obtainable by conventional means. This is one type of difference that I prefer as it rewards people who invested TIME instead of sheer MONEY to get their BiS equipment. People who invested TIME into obtaining some of the best looking gear shouldn't be feeling left out.

    4. I can't wait to complete my Stories of old Set, this is something I highly look forward to as I really enjoy this concept and method of gameplay. It is not common, it is rather unique in my opinion. Farming took some time, but it wasn't crazy farming like collecting runes for upgrading gear from LOtMM.

    5. LOtMM gear doesn't do anything for a Wizard. Armor set gives bonus defense. Head gives a bonus to Underdark damage. Arms and feet some CA bonus and Power bonus. Hmmmm for any Tanky character I guess that would be ideal choice. However, for Wizard this is nowhere near BiS. In fact, Ravenloft gear looks more promising on top of having Orcus set.

    I intentionally won't be using Orcus set because I'm tired of --one set to rule them all-- concepts. I believe that there is enough willpower in the development team to make several viable neck/belt/artifact bonuses.

    As for the rest of the changes, the increase of the Enchantments and Runestones for 100% of their current value is amazing!
    I do hope that this won't affect the already established values being set as I do not want to constantly change my loadout settings.
    True Neutral
    Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    lardeson said:

    krymkac said:

    Ppl who claim warlocks have a healer role need to run lomm with sw as only healer. Without lifescrolls & health stones. Any endgame content really, lomm being just the most glaring example. Soulweaver's best healing encounter has only 400 magnitude & requires soul sparks to use. Nothing to hit = no sparks = no healing (Hello, lomm 2nd boss). Only cleansing power damages the user and only cleanse others but not the warlock himself. Now look at the selection of healing powers op/dc have. Temp hp/shielding powers. Still gonna tell us with a straight face sw can heal hence should shup up and be happy with current dps/healing balance?

    Did 3 or 4 runs yesterday with SW solo heals and in one of the runs 0 deaths. so yh?
    I'm not one of those people who think Warlock is categorically terrible, but this is a bit misleading. Your average Soulweaver in your average party can't reasonably manage the Bore Worm soaks. Your average party will let at least a boulder or two through, will get pushed out of position by golems, won't be standing on the raised areas that aren't usually subject to knockdown, etc., etc.

    Any mistake by the party makes this far more difficult for the Soulweaver to manage. It's not impossible, but the performance requirements are far lower if you take a Devout or Oathkeeper for these types of mechanics.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
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    Testament - Wizard
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    NIGHTSWATCH

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