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Undermountain Owlbear Patch Notes: NW.110.20190519a.2

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  • soul#6332 soul Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    To admiralwarlord
    Currently SW will damage only in party armless DD =)

  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    It seems to me like they have some formula, like if power X takes A time for CD and B casting time then it has C magnitude, and while that might work for some classes, it doesn't work for everything. Different class mechanics skew the end result in practice, and so I think maybe they may need to break the formula in some cases, and just use it as a general guide line, instead of hard-and-fast rules.

  • rafamarques#5700 rafamarques Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    ... we're not "debating" if barbarians are doing enough damage or not. asterdahl has already said: no.

    what we want to know is WHEN the changes will come.

  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Auto looting is still not working properly.

    There seem to be some undocumented changes as well, as my stats (aside from Power, HP, and Accuracy, which are affected by Enchants, Runestones and Guild Boons so are expected) have changed between Live, Preview and Owlbear.

    It’s about a 1k loss of ArP and Crit Avoid on my Paladin with Allure Augment.

    My other checked characters show similar small shifts in stats.

    ——
    Some quick checking in Well of Dragons says that the Heralds are going to be completable by a good party and the general zone is back to feeling like it did in pre-16 mods.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • miotest#5683 miotest Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    "Envenomed Storyteller's Journal: The Gain of this item has been reduced across all ranks."

    How Can You Break An Envenomed Artifact? After all, it was based on the intention you created for the 2019 players - ie Tales of Old - which you also praised for the preview and live version of MOD 16. .

    You still haven't solved the neck APgain, which only gives 0.4% AP / 2 seconds instead of 4% Ap / 2 seconds - as you confirmed by changing the description.

    Wizard (DPS character) should have a secondary ability for WIS to preview:
    + incoming healing
    + control resistance
    In the meantime, you released the LIVE version + outgoing healing instead of incoming healing. That is: Wizard is not a healer and should have a secondary ability CON (apgain + HP) instead of WIS.

    Wizard arcanist has new DAILY for 80 lvl ..... got you completely out of the original performance tests, practically disposing of this direction.

    How do you make sure your players trust you and make BUILD and like to come back to play when you make adjustments that break the playing context so that they can't rely on a 3 month old standard? Do you have a co-ordinator who oversees that you will not damage the good intentions already created by new changes?

  • miotest#5683 miotest Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    Remember that WIZARDs are strong just because for historical reasons they have had to learn to make the most of the minimum - they virtually combine all energy sources including equipment and enchantment. The Wizard couldn't do big DMG without selfbuff on which he had to perform targeted spell rotations. Therefore, they have no problem adapting. However, they must not be limited by resources such as APgain. But if the system creates instability - they can leave and come back in a year. My personal perspective.
  • dogis#8617 dogis Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    @terramak ,

    please rework Devouted Cleric.

    Atm ther's no reason to get R15 or something else.

    Just check that - no dps at all.

    Leg companions(outhealing +50%) + leg mount +leg insignias + full set of R15 ench.+basic set 990 =
    Bastion = 109k-147k. Healing Word = 43k-57k Cost = 65-75mil AD.

    Epic companions(+40%)+No mount + no insignias at all + no any enchantments at all+basic set 990 =
    Bastion = 125k-166k. Healing Word = 47k-65k Cost = 3mil AD.

    What is the reason to spend extra 60+mil for nothing ?!

    Can you please rework some feats/skills for Devout paragon.

    Let's say - Daunting Light change magnitude to 330 from 280. and Divinity cost to 65 from 80.
    Repeated Blessing - extend timer of H.Word , from ANY encounter skill.

    In that case , High end players , would be able to mix and match such skills as "Bastion/Healing Word and Daunting light"
    To provide not only healing , but also some dmg (15-20% of other dps classes) in that case i can see the difference to pay 60+mil and help team to do an extra 7-8% of overall dmg. It would be the most expensive class.To achieve prop stats with no companions (cause all of them for outgoing healing) the character should be really high-end.

    Hopefully you will read , and make the right desicion.

    Thank you.
  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    divectore said:

    i just hope you read this and consider fixing it: Angel of Death (capstone of DC Arbiter) is the worst feat there is in any game i played.
    Since undermountain, i haven't been able to proc it once in real battle, because: 1: the power is only usefull for bosses, 2: you can't use it in bosses because it takes too many stacks to reach angel of death (about 4 mins of just dpsing,not considering dodging or doing mechanics) , and when you reach 30 stacks, the boss is already dead.
    This is my propose.
    Angel of death: (last 5 seconds)
    Requires 4 stacks to reach it.
    On proc refills 50 divinity per second
    Encounters are 10% more effective while in angel of death.
    Your first encounter that use divinity will have 0 divinity cost, and the following encounters have halfened divinity cost.

    This way, the feat will be more consistent (and at least can be used) and have a more action feeling rather than something strong but used once per lifetime.

    Also, Hunter Ranger's Throw Caution is not procing Flurry, and Hindering Strike has a 5% to fail and don't do anything but going to cooldown.

    im totally with you on the Angel of Death feat - 30 stacks - waaay too much, unreliable and uncontrollable... at most cases in boss fight it wont proc since it takes too long to stack ...

  • alfalolzalfalolz Member Posts: 161 Arc User

    divectore said:

    i just hope you read this and consider fixing it: Angel of Death (capstone of DC Arbiter) is the worst feat there is in any game i played.
    Since undermountain, i haven't been able to proc it once in real battle, because: 1: the power is only usefull for bosses, 2: you can't use it in bosses because it takes too many stacks to reach angel of death (about 4 mins of just dpsing,not considering dodging or doing mechanics) , and when you reach 30 stacks, the boss is already dead.
    This is my propose.
    Angel of death: (last 5 seconds)
    Requires 4 stacks to reach it.
    On proc refills 50 divinity per second
    Encounters are 10% more effective while in angel of death.
    Your first encounter that use divinity will have 0 divinity cost, and the following encounters have halfened divinity cost.

    This way, the feat will be more consistent (and at least can be used) and have a more action feeling rather than something strong but used once per lifetime.

    Also, Hunter Ranger's Throw Caution is not procing Flurry, and Hindering Strike has a 5% to fail and don't do anything but going to cooldown.

    perfect balance and inner balance? are equally bad. one relies on completely skewing your stats to achieve the stat balance the feat requires for its divinity gain function.....

    and the final feat requires you to alternate your rotation and also to slot radiant and fire encounters, when this is not the most effective way to play arbiter.......for boss fights it works out ok "if" you have the daunting light feat for forgemaster, then you dont need to aim DL and can alternate between FF and DL easily.

    sudden verdict and piercing javelin are about the only useful feats arbiter has

    its like they just drew up all these ideas without ever actually playing the class, then just dumped it on us and said "have a nice day!"
    totally with you here.

    Also speaking as of pvp we are the only class that has almost to non of a control effect.
    Please dont even bother looking at chains since it totally garbage, requires time to castm deals no damage and gets removed with any damage done to the target.

    Sunburst is not ideal too, i would love to have GEAS with some sort of daze effect (Not even asking for stunm which is most prolly too much) ... Please devs consider adding 2-3 sec DAZE effect to GEAS.



  • regenerderegenerde Member Posts: 2,977 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    "The health of all enemies (including bosses) has been reduced by 10%."
    ... there're some enemies in MEs that seem to have more HP then bosses, i doubt that reducing their HP by only 10% will be enough to even matter.

    "Beholders now consistently deal damage and status effects to players caught inside their red AoE damage indicators."
    ... there's something strange going on with those red markers, i'm in the clear but i still get hit with something from some enemies, it fells like the red marker aren't showing the full range of the attack.
    Or when that Remorhaz boss in ME vomits it's 3 lines, the stuff on the ground allways seem to move a bit in the direction my character is trying to evade.

    And are there any changes on the way in the companion department to make them a bit more usefull in fights again?
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    The only reason I posted that picture was to demonstrate that the class unbalance continues. I have many friends DC's and GF's who are DPS and can not group for LoMM. I do not care if my main class is the top DPS, I can break the damn mimic's in Nostura with some ease up, except that one of the reasons for all the changes that came with the new module was to facilitate class balance and that damage difference would be around 5% from one to another. Currently classes that only have DPS give up to 25% more damage than some classes that have 2 paths.

    About the changes announced in the patch notes, I would just like to highlight this change:

    "Enchantments
    All Enchantments and Runestones, aside from Bonding Runestones, have had their item level and stats doubled.
    Enchantments are now affected less by level scaling downward, while gear is affected a little more. "

    That broke the economy for a long time, devalued most of the enchants, stones and brands. You should have the notion that a player who spent 2 million AD to build an enchant that was Bis for his char, having to negotiate it at 450k because from one day to night he became lousy like most enchantments because the scale is very aggressive (it was) where it hurt you the most in the evolution of char. Every module is launched new equipment precisely to allow the new players do not distance themselves from the final group. In addition there are several events, such as 2x campaigns, 2x stone and so many others to help them in this climb.
  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    "Quote" rel="giz#2086">
    And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.

    So what you are saying is that, because you cant play a Sw or a Barbie properly, that the class sux? if you want we can do an experiment, i'll give 2 different people my cw character for a test, lets see if one doesn't do better than another with the same setup, 2 different players on same character doesn't mean they'll both perform as well. I LMM with Sw most of the time, if not all the same, at the same time, i run with cws that do less damage than them. so yes, i repeat myself and highly advice you go do some researches before complaining about this and that.

    Prior to mod15, specifically between mod12 and 15, Cw wasn't viable as dps, mainly because Gwf and gf were on the top, but did we still do dungeons? did we still play? yes, we had a second role then buy going into Mof and buffing/debuffing with class features, feats and renegade-oppresor, those who had more dps than others even in the debuff build, would go thaum instead of oppresor, in the same debuff build, 2 players with the same stuff would do different damage and this would influence the run to be faster or slower. What am i trying to say with this? you playing a class that is good, doesn't mean you are good. Now go Pm Punk, tell him lardy sent you and ask him to share a guide with you about sw dps. Whenever im not running anything, i inspect my FL and this dude is always in LMM, as for barbies, i haven't ran much with them, maybe 2, hence why i said they were "ok". Also even if theorically barbies did more damage than cw, that wouldn't happen in LMM as you cant one shot mobs and sws/cws have the ranged advantages, they can support heals/tanks on mimics, they can dps from distance without compromising theirselves much. If you dont want a tank class, play tr, if you dont want a healer class, play cw or ranger. Go ask Fenrick for a ranger guide.

    What you can also do is make a cw, compare their cooldowns with that of the sw, compare the cooldown-magnitude on cw with that of the sw, on my lvl 80 cw, only arcanist path, the lowest cd we have is 7s.

    Now on the other path, thaumaturge, which is what most of the cws play, the average cd is 15.83s (summed all the cds from encounters and divided by 10 which is the amount of encounters we have) so our total cd would be 158,3s. Our average magnitude is 280, same calculation. Average cd on a lvl 37 sw 10,42s, average magnitude 169 (doesn't include extra damage per stack from infernal spheres, nor blades, just took the base for all). Average cd on Barbie 16,2s, average magnitude 336. This is a lvl 36 barbie.

    For Cw: Mag/s = 17,7
    for sw Mag/s = 16,2
    for barbie Mag/s = 20,7

    I repeat, sw extra damage from stacks were not added, even then as you can clearly see, if we consider the difference between barbie and cw then compare that same difference between cw-sw, its little to nothing, but can cw and sw beat barbies in dungeons? yes? why? cos we have ranged advantage. Could there be class mechanics and features not working properly on all classes? Yes, just like with every mod.

    If all things considered working properly, what can barbies do to cut the ranged advantage? they have super speed and are tanky enough to rush ahead like they always do before the ranger starts hitting? Yes Yes Yes and YES. And i'll repeat myself again, learn how to play, just having everything bis will not automatically make you a good player or dps in this case, not if you dont know your character. I for myself, i have wasted atleast 10 million AD just to test companions until i found a proper balance, the 10 Million is for companions that were useless at the end of the test, not the current ones im using, includes, polar bear cub, owlbear cub, cockatrice, golden lion, manticore, wolfie, etc. Have u done the same?

    Talking about companions, sw and cw have 3 offense slots, poor barbies who now considered to be primarily tank class, have 1 offense slot. Sw and Cw are more or less on the same level of dps, ofc, in the right hands.

    Post edited by lardeson on
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • gonzakotwigonzakotwi Member Posts: 267 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    lardeson said:

    terramak said:

    Enemies and Encounters
    Items and Economy
    Artifact Gear
    Artifacts

    • Envenomed Storyteller's Journal: The AP Gain of this item has been reduced across all ranks.
    • Symbol of Fire: This artifact should now properly show its cooldown timer.
    So you are nerfing the Envenomed storyteller with fixing AP Gain on some classes? where encounters only give 1% ap and most of the time give 0%. At wills giving only 0.5% with exceptions of charged atwills. I did post videos about this bug, and have pointed it out since the mod dropped, still no word on it?

    I tried it and the book seems ok now with the ap gain (i mean it was pretty much broken that u could throw a daily just by activating the book), what needs rework is the 2nd part you say. Im getting on hb warlock 1% on at wills and 1% on encounters, and ap gain does nothing with those small numbers.

    I did a bit of testing on owlbear (you know i'm getting tired of being a non paid tester). This is definitely a step in the right direction and future patches should be done like this with clear info and no ninja patches on live that break more things. The game still has much work to do. Only thing that doesn't sound well to me is the 10% hp reduction, considering that with the stats doubled we get to kill them faster. And enchantment doubling is pretty much needed, it turns the leveling of enchantments useful and impactful again
  • caldochaud#4880 caldochaud Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    For the record, I am not trolling. I am just very exasperated with these illogical nerfs.

    - With all of these changes, why does it matter whether we refine anything now if the new scaling system simply undoes everything?
    - Wouldn't it be better just to get rid of refinement altogether since it is now completely pointless?
    - What is the point of running group content when I am seeing a scaling penalty based on the strongest player in the group applying party-wide, thus dooming the entire party to failure?
    - What is the point of leveling when a low-level character performs like Superman and a high-level character performs like Spongebob Squarepants?
    - Would it not make more sense just to get rid of leveling characters altogether and have everybody with vanilla stats and make all weapons and gear cosmetic only?

    This is all so very disheartening...

    I want the old Neverwinter back.

    (And by the way, my Wizard is still Tanking in group content - drawing agro like crazy and keeping the rest of party alive. Maybe you should just give Wizards a choice between DPS or Tank build?)
    Post edited by caldochaud#4880 on
    "Talent is a flame. Genius is a fire." - Sir Bernard Williams
  • rafamarques#5700 rafamarques Member Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    ... the point is not only the alpha dps class of this game stay behind, but the mess of the feats too. "tradeoffs w/o great rewards, a lot of feats for encounters and dailys that can be perfectly ignored w/o problems to your game play - that means, at least 3 tiers of wasted level points - and so on. looks like you have two or three devs doing that class designes, so, looks impossible have some "balance" in that point.

    so no... that is not about "historical reasons" or have a tank path. barbarians are incomplete as anything else we see in this patch notes (that is not my opinion, the dev said that).

    ps: the irony is that gwfs are a lot more fun now. so... to me the better for now is adjust some damages for class features and atwills. maybe up battle rage for 25% - up to 15%, etc.

  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 517 Arc User
    If you consider classes that have 2 styles of game or as tank or as healer are forced to play in that style because the DPS is bad, I can not do anything, since it is your opinion, but we were promised a viable DPS path and so far I have not yet found such a path, if it exists.
  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    giz#2086 said:

    lardeson said:

    And you need to understand that not all Barbarians wants to play tank and not all Warlocks wants to play as healer, if i have a DPS path i want it equally good as Two DPS path classes. If you haven't a second role isn't other classes fault, ask devs for another role.

    lardeson said:

    terramak said:

    Enemies and Encounters
    Items and Economy
    Artifact Gear
    Artifacts

    • Envenomed Storyteller's Journal: The AP Gain of this item has been reduced across all ranks.
    • Symbol of Fire: This artifact should now properly show its cooldown timer.
    So you are nerfing the Envenomed storyteller with fixing AP Gain on some classes? where encounters only give 1% ap and most of the time give 0%. At wills giving only 0.5% with exceptions of charged atwills. I did post videos about this bug, and have pointed it out since the mod dropped, still no word on it?

    I tried it and the book seems ok now with the ap gain (i mean it was pretty much broken that u could throw a daily just by activating the book), what needs rework is the 2nd part you say. Im getting on hb warlock 1% on at wills and 1% on encounters, and ap gain does nothing with those small numbers.

    I did a bit of testing on owlbear (you know i'm getting tired of being a non paid tester). This is definitely a step in the right direction and future patches should be done like this with clear info and no ninja patches on live that break more things. The game still has much work to do. Only thing that doesn't sound well to me is the 10% hp reduction, considering that with the stats doubled we get to kill them faster. And enchantment doubling is pretty much needed, it turns the leveling of enchantments useful and impactful again
    I do agree that its abit off, but does it make alot more sense to fix the current lack of ap before fixing the only source of ap gain these classes have?
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • lardesonlardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User

    If you consider classes that have 2 styles of game or as tank or as healer are forced to play in that style because the DPS is bad, I can not do anything, since it is your opinion, but we were promised a viable DPS path and so far I have not yet found such a path, if it exists.

    No, thats not my point, if you saw my last comment before yours, you can see gwf shouldn't be doing less dps, sw shouldn't either, the issue here is that there could be some feats not working on these classes, but not the fact that cw and tr are doing "too much" damage. Barbie from what it looks is mainly considered a tank, otherwise it makes no sense why they have 3 defense slots on companion. If you are not happy with this, you go to the devs, but do not ask for them to nerf other classes, simple go with something like "hey devs, we dont want a secondary role on barbies nor sws, we just want to be dpses". Although if i recall, it was the same sws crying about not being able to queue as "healers" now you want to be both equally good as dps and healers? think for urself where that would leave the other healers and dpses. imagine everyone running 3 sw dpses, 1 sw heal and 1 tank.
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User

    pitshade said:

    I see Dire Wolf proc fairly regularly and the mob stops what it was doing when that happens.

    I used to see my Dire Wolf proc (back on 3/30), just not recently. I've tried Cockatrice, Dire Wolf, and Manticore on Live and they don't proc. On preview currently after 369 attacks, neither Tenebrous (2 R12's) or Cockatrice proc at this moment (from ACT log).

    Well I was stupid, and missed that it was on Owlbear. I re-tested Tenebrous, DireWolf, Manticore, and Cockatrice. Dire Wolf works, Manticore & Cocktrice still do not. Tenebrous proc's but the % doesn't match after the first enchantment, much as the bug report described.
  • photeus#7983 photeus Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    > @kieranmtorn said:
    > I see Dire Wolf proc fairly regularly and the mob stops what it was doing when that happens.
    >
    > I used to see my Dire Wolf proc (back on 3/30), just not recently. I've tried Cockatrice, Dire Wolf, and Manticore on Live and they don't proc. On preview currently after 369 attacks, neither Tenebrous (2 R12's) or Cockatrice proc at this moment (from ACT log).
    >
    >
    >
    > Well I was stupid, and missed that it was on Owlbear. I re-tested Tenebrous, DireWolf, Manticore, and Cockatrice. Dire Wolf works, Manticore & Cocktrice still do not. Tenebrous proc's but the % doesn't match after the first enchantment, much as the bug report described.

    Dire wolf effect does work, but the added damage doesn't proc, from what I can tell. Rust monster effect doesn't work though and seems to be related. It's also worse at higher levels, so...?
This discussion has been closed.