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  • martelis1981martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 120 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Again, we understand there are concerns but we specifically indicated we were looking for more specific feedback. With more players on live we are able to get more data and information that will help us make the necessary tweaks.

    What more especific that: IN ALL THE ZONES OF THE HAMSTER GAME THE HAMSTER SCALLING SYSTEM WORKS LIKE A S***. It's so HAMSTER hard to understand??. If you want more "specific" data, DO your work and READ the TONS of indications and suggestions that there is in the preview forum since the mod 16 was released in the preview server. My god, this is ridiculously surreal. :s
  • martelis1981martelis1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 120 Arc User
    There was no need for a scaling system, you removed the buffs/debuffs the powershare, recovery lifesteal, etc with that was more than enough.
  • kopros666kopros666 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    CN: at the initial phase where each player enters one of the portals, the mobs inside are too tough to solo/tank/kill.

    Remove scaling system and move all old 70lvl dungeons to 80lvl, so only 80 lvl players can participate (who have some experience with new class changes). Riq is now flooded with untrained 70-79 players who don't know what to do with their classes. It's a disaster, along with the obvious scaling problem where enemies hit for too much.
  • agilestoagilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User
    @drumon88 380k HP for a sentinel Barb on YP is waaaay too low, but that doesn't change the fact that you're right.

    @dolrey So I acknowledge that you didn't try to play any dungeon on M16, did you even log on M16? Did you try to do the Bruenor quests for alliance supplies? Did you enter Demo, did you try to outrun the shadows on VT, did you even see the slaughter on Tiamat?

    So much for all your elite advices about adapt, you don't even know what you're talking about. A BiS tank one-shot by adds? A player fighting with 13 lvl difference in quests so can't do anything? Try that, and THEN come again talk about how everything is fine, it's not.

    Right now all your posts are explicitely saying that you didn't step a foot on M16, or didn't leave PE, otherwise you'd understand why people complain.
  • cukaashacukaasha Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I do indeed appreciate challege and its a welcome sight, just that the difficulty also lies in oyher epic dungeons too! Such as Kessel's Retreat, we keep on getting smashed and one-hit by mobs.

    Also party arrangement in Tiamat is poor, lacking tanks and healers.

    My guess to all this is thay either the mobs are not adjusted to the new system (down leveled) or maybe another unknown reason.

    We dont mind challge, at least I dont mind, but as vetran player we also want to see the fruits of our efforts, to show off our abities, skills and gains. To enjoy the old content not as a new repeating struggle but an enjoyment and a great memory.

    If every content is a struggle the player would burn out really fast and many would taie a break of the came, specially since most campaigns are time gated and hualed.
  • agilestoagilesto Member Posts: 516 Arc User

    Here's is one of the problem of the current scaling and why it's not okay no matter what you try to say to the community:

    All the lvl 70 mobs have the same stats, be it in zones, in Valindra Tower or in Fangbreaker Island. So as a player, you need the same amount of stats to cap and be effective against ennemies. So you need 57k arpen, 97k CA, etc.

    Here comes the scaling. VT has a required IL way lower than FBI. As a result, you're scaled down more importantly in VT than in FBI. But what about the ennemies? They still have the same amount of stats.

    So, what happens is you as a player have more stats in FBI than in VT, but the cap required for the stats to be effective against the ennemies remain the same. Thus, your character is more effective in FBI than in VT, considering the ennemies stats are the same but you're stronger.

    This leads us to T3 dungeons (or previous T3) being way easier to complete than T1 dungeons. By a huge margin. On the same group (19-22k, experimented players), we spent 20 minutes on VT and only 25 on FBI. FBI was piece of cake content compared to VT, and that's not normal.
  • khol#0753 khol Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    Right now Neverwinter is RUBBISH. You, the Developers have completely destroyed what was an OK game. I mave done multiple dungeons, with multiple toons, with the same result. You shouldn't have to die 50 times, then get someone to help you out, just to complete stuff you've did in the last mod. If this is in some way a SICK JOKE, it's worked. If you wanted to KILL the game, you've done a damn fine job of it. You have gone from one extreme to the other, I will NEVER spend any cash money on this game while it continues to be like this. If I really wanted to play a game that was party oriented, I would have played World of Warcraft. I enjoyed this game because you could solo a majority of the content, even if it was difficult to start with. Dungeons and Hunts etc, that was different, you needed to party them. As for INDOMIDIBLE on Barbarian. It's just another way to say KILL ME. It don't work. As I said at the beginning, this game currently a Cluster F, well I'm sure you know the rest.
  • dontez1dontez1 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Epic Shores of Tuern is in a decent place. We were all a bit nervous to just spd through like normal. So we killed everything pretty easy. No one was one-shot. Had a pali, warlock heals, ranger, rogue, and I'm wiz. The final boss took maybe 15-20 secs, which seemed long cause he didn't insta-die. Overall it seemed decent.
    So thats 1 Good...how many Bad?

    Defiantly seemed more ol'school Epic Dungeon Neverwinter where everything was dangerous... and Valindra was the Lich Queen.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    1. REMOVE all scaling in PVE open world and instances.. THIS SIMPLY isnt going to work, you do not have the playberbase #s in zones that people have to play and progress through. Do not try to force this, this is the worst part scaling.
    2. In dungeons, you should ALWAYS be slightly stronger at 80, then you were at 70.. if you want to keep scaling here, then you need to figure out a better balance point, having LOWER stats at 80, then 70, seems a bit ridiculous.

    You simply have done incorrect methodology here. That is the problem, how you are going to fix it , I dont know, your the ones who applied it, so I dont know your base measurments and its not really for me to tell you how to do that.

    Just figure it out..

    BUT the OPEN world and private instances , ALL scaling HAS to be dropped, its stupid.

  • cabar1cabar1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 124 Arc User
    > @richtayls#5929 said:
    > I’m so glad I play on console, PC players rely on preview to highlight problems but it seems they are just ignored until players on live start saying WTF too.

    And if you look at all the bugs introduced with each mod you will notice that there is a Long - Long - Long 'to do list' which is still being ignored, years later.
    99 lines of code on the wall, 99 lines of code, add one line, compile it again....... 113 lines on code on the wall
    113 lines of code on the wall, 113 lines of code, rewrite one line, compile it again.......
    Wait For It
  • mifiisumifiisu Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    So.... how do I get on the Drider server? Change my language settings for additional options?
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    ''Everything is fine, you need skills now''....
    walks into Malabogs watches the tank get instakilled with shield up/no red areas by the first group of mobs over and over again ...
    L M A O everything is fine guys..
    walks into nDemo everyone had 15+ deaths average, i guess we are all noobs and can't dodge at-wills that 1 shot us, EVERYTHING IS FINE ....
    walks into Valindra fight and can't outrun wraiths and get killed

    I don't know if these people are getting paid to say everything is fine, or if they are devs with troll accounts but guess what? most stuff is not fine, just log in and read zone chat across all the areas or even better .... play the game.
    Funny thing people have been complaining about this for over a month now, why even bother having alpha and beta testers if you don't actually listen to them? just remove owlbear and preview servers and have your own group of people testing the stuff.
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    kopros666 said:

    CN: at the initial phase where each player enters one of the portals, the mobs inside are too tough to solo/tank/kill.

    Remove scaling system and move all old 70lvl dungeons to 80lvl, so only 80 lvl players can participate (who have some experience with new class changes). Riq is now flooded with untrained 70-79 players who don't know what to do with their classes. It's a disaster, along with the obvious scaling problem where enemies hit for too much.

    The mechanic to get past here is to have the entire team focus on one mob. When the mob turns around because it is under 50% hp and chases, the one it is chasing kites it backwards. This worked for us going through it. Legendary Trex will kill the zombies as well. The AoE effect from the fight doesn't one shot you so this is at least a viable strategy to get through this part. We had to go through about 7 or so of the AoE bursts to kill the full 20 of them.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
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  • rybsyngoniumrybsyngonium Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    AD generation will be cut in half until something is done about it.

    Those with many alts can do Leveling Queues for rAD as a walkaround. I just noticed that rAD quantity for first each queue is counted per chararacter not per account as it was before. Do not know if it is WAI or bug as I didn't find such change description in release notes.
    As a bad side we will have rush runs for ADs still.

    4). The biggest impact seems to be on pallys who have to learn a no way to tank. The vast majority of people are not on the forums so I can only assume they had a massive shock yesterday.

    All classes have hard time if they do not know how to play. And they didn't learn if they are not old players or were not on BIS state and were not doing hardest content. Tanks have the hardest time as they fall down on knees first if they do their job properly (getting aggro).

    The bright side of the scaling is if it will be done properly it could be really nice.
    As (some funny) examples.
    I just finished Dread Legion with 71lvl wizard (new 15k). One 19k blademaster Barbarian (74lvl) falled down twice as probably did not know he should avoid red zones or was just testing things. All other toons, all 70-80k, did not have any onther big problems besides the fact some had to run away from pursuing them mobs as they didn't leave tank job to tank (for new player readers: it is hard to take aggro from char when they all are on different corners of the location). It was few minutes longer than usually (+2 minutes maybe) but not any big deal.
    Second. Done Master of the Hunt. Similar configuration with levels. But I was on 80lvl pally (17k) and got 2 healers for my life support B).
    Yeah, that was funny random config for leveling queue. It took few minutes longer too, and because of lack of dps-es I could recall the last boss can heal himself. :)

    What I am trying to say, Leveling Queue is easy for main toons still but some undergeared alts (and new players) can have interesting times there.
    As others said already, RAQ dungeons do not demand so high challenge as those from RIQ.
    It looks like the worst things happens in RIQ dungeons. This should be a prof of broken scaling.

    I can confirm:
    - CN: first phase with entering portals is undoable (or have to be done with all party entering into portal if it is possible - but
    time consuming!)
    - Hulks on throne: as someone mentioned - they do not run on target. And I have to wait so long till hulk (un)decide to run on me that mobs will kill me (at leat as tank having aggro on most of them).
    - Mobs are too fast in general (VT ghosts is just an example). They surround the tank and drain life very quickly. In half of the second between releasing shield and using some power they can drain 100k HP in Malabog's Castle (you redcaps!) as they attack in packs and they are fast. It can be a matter of timing and personal skills (still learning to not use tab on pally when used to!) but a half of the second, really? The lag/rubberband is sometimes bigger.
    Post edited by rybsyngonium on
  • zebulondaktoidzebulondaktoid Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Greetings! We are looking into the difficulty level in Demo, CN, Tiamat, and ToNG. We appreciate your feedback and will continue to review additional reports that come in!

    Just a suggestion, but wouldn't it be easier just to use a simple dungeon modifier based on the party level rather than this item/level scaling (which seems unnecessarily complicated and problematic)?

  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User

    Hey folks, please recall that what we said about scaling after the April 16 steam was:

    While we understand some players have concerns over scaling, we believe it is in an overall pretty good place. We do expect there to be some post-launch tweaks to scaling as the content gets played more frequently and we receive more specific feedback.

    Again, we understand there are concerns but we specifically indicated we were looking for more specific feedback. With more players on live we are able to get more data and information that will help us make the necessary tweaks.

    This is cheap propaganda. I am upset, but I saw this coming.
    So I am going to state the facts, as I see them:

    First, not "some players" but practically all players had serious concerns, that were voiced in numerous places on preview
    Second, your "belief" was not based on experience gathered from a representative sample of the new content, it was based on wishful thinking (and possibly, just possibly one or the other individual experience of an anonymous dev who might have run one or two dungeons at some point in time, likely before stats and other things were nerfed)
    Third, the royal mess you delivered does not need "some post-launch tweaks", it needs a systematic pass through all dungeons, instances, zones.

    Obviously you (not you personally, Cryptic) were not willing to do this systematic pass through the individual dungeons.

    You thought - in your alternative reality bubble - that after even after you did all these changes in several core systems, that you could just randomly set some imaginary slider on the global difficulty level and then happily "believe it is in an overall pretty good place".

    You ignored almost all feedback given during 6 weeks of preview of the horrible status of the dungeons in RIQ.

    You thought that it would be a grand idea to not look at the dungeons in a half-wise systematic way at all. Rather you chose to let the reports of the tons of issues *every* dungeon has just roll in, occasionally "tweaking" some stuff that was reported, ignoring other things that were likewise reported.

    And the joke of it: All of the above, you were told in several places by several people in several preview feedback threads.

    Please don't take this personally. I believe you are a nice person in real life, same as the devs and the entire team behind this game. I also realize, that you do not have the freedom to post anything, that is in conflict with what the higher ups would like you to say. But sorry to say so, the company propaganda just does not cut it.
  • rev#7881 rev Member Posts: 343 Arc User
    After the patch 95% of Riq is still unplayable, and the few that you can actually complete like folly most of the times bug..... i give up
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    Im concerned that incorrect feedback, will end up not getting the desired results, alot of players simply do not know how to play or build well, so they ignore so much actually useful stuff, then ask amiss when they dont know what they are talking about. Some of these guys are going to walk into any content and die.. that is not 100% on the company.

    I will try again.

    1. Remove scaling from all open world PVE and instances, there is no need of that.. progression should allow us to womp through old zones to get campaigns done, you dont have the playerbase #s to support making hes and stuff scaled.. it wont work. Most mmos Ive played.. I just get to highest level first, basic gear and weapons second, then go back and do modifers, because its like 50% easier. none of those games were like.. oh noes, dont let them do that.. come on, its bullcrap, only real reason is to force campaign sales. Screw you on this one. It shouldn't be like this.. no one wants to SPEND more time doing weeklies and dailies.. its the most boring part of your game to start with.. so get over yourselves and just remove it. HEs in alot of zones needed for campaign completion, will be almost never done.. already was VERY difficult to find people to do some of them.

    2. Revamp scaling, IN NO way shape or form , should all progression be blown up, you should NEVER have your stats lower at 80, then at 70. I thought the whole concept, was you will generally be a bit better off fully leveled up and properly geared. But thats not what is happening. So hence the complaints.

    3. OR dump scaling as it is.. put all master/epics to lvl 80 , and leveling to max 60. Move things around and split the queues up as per difficulty again. Better then what you are doing now.

    4. Then put tiers 1, 2 and 3 in for extra rewards in instead, with escalating scale system. So people can choose to participate or not.

    (or % modified increases of drops)

    There were ways of doing this without all of this needless hassle and useless time involved and player angst.

    But you guys once again, decided on a overly complex system, instead of just streamlining things to be simpler and more rewarding not less for players.

    I cant believe someone sat in a room and came up with this and thought it was going to work well.

  • mtlmortismtlmortis Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    The worst part of all this is that they've been told over and over and over again by testers before this went live that this was an issue. It's ridiculous that mod 16 released in this state with the Devs ignoring it and saying it's not us it's you we like it exactly where it is.
  • tatianeher#2341 tatianeher Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    good neverwinter Unders... patch ... now this game its a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, sorry for this words but is a big result of you mod 16, dungeos now new players or end game cant complete more. THANK YOU
  • tatianeher#2341 tatianeher Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    > @dolrey said:
    > I'm in love in this game now. Difficulty is right there where it should be (YEAH IS A TROLLING).
    >I think you should review and adjust your concepts, laying down what is most important to you.
    END GAMES - they barely log and they do not spend because it already has everything and in a certain way maximum.
    NEW PLAYERS - In which they began to play the game of voçês in module 15 in which it is very good the form of balance, conceivably impelling them to spend in the game and to dedicate time, but now it is impossible to play where a DG of level 64 until the END GAMERS die.
    beware of Neverwinter's ADMs the count started their numbers started to fall, you're losing the guys and when you realize it may be too late.
  • lordaeoloslordaeolos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    Many of us have provided feedback regarding scaling since week 1 on preview. There are more places it doesn't work than there are places it does (FBI is an example of one of the few less than 80 scaled areas it's working in). The fundamental problem is that the lower in pecking order the dungeon, the more difficult it becomes, this is largely due to the fact that the enemies are scaled the same across 70 content, but we as players are not (this is excluding obvious bugs that had been reported on preview, like the Valindra's bacon strip phase speed issues). I've even heard a number of reports yesterday from new to the game players not being able to get past the sleeping dragon bridge intro quest.

    As a guild leader in a relatively well populated Alliance I can tell you this mod has been a handful. And that's after having spent a considerable amount of time on pre-view, and having made getting started builds and advise for our members. A lot of our members are still in a stat of building up towards end game, and many campaigns that they were working on, have now become impossible for them to do dailies on, let alone HE's (Chult, Barovia, etc) My advise has been to concentrate on finishing the new campaign (which seems to be mostly bug free), get to lvl 80, grind expeditions for new better gear, and leave the rest for when you are much better geared, or the scaling gets fixed.

    The good news is that hopefully this finally kills off the plague of AD farming bots in the random leveling queue.
    "Lord Willow"
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  • eversummer#1666 eversummer Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    i like mod 16 so far keep it up!

    Master of the Hunt soloed no issue noticed (edit - bug : can still attack and cast power with Witch debuff bear form)

    RIQ - apart from Tiamat and ndemo (especially Tia) no difficulty issue seen so far, all are way more challenging but feels good. Throne of Dwarven God hulks charge is bugged.

    RAQ - TONG 2nd boss very hard, have not seen last boss. MSP first boss Kabal is bugged (ball doesnt make him non-immune to dmg) dont know for other bosses. (edit - Lava and fire balls dmg were very weak, it was a struggle to wipe...)
    FBI and eDemo no issue

    As it is, minimum iL requirement should be way higher for both queues imo.

    For public q demogorgon maybe to switch team requirements 2tank-3heals-5dps can help?

    No particular problem with river district BHE despite someone else said.

    (ex 14k item level player point of view - now 19k with mostly same gear, lvl 80)

    edit - i play ranger
    Post edited by eversummer#1666 on
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