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Mod 16 Killing Neverwinter's Strongest point(s)

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  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,196 Arc User

    Only thing I hope is that if it does go like Mod6 did they are quicker to react to it than the devs were back then. If not then the game may not be able to survive it.

    They've had months of feedback and bug reports and have ignored almost all of both (at least from non-testers). The mod isn't even close to ready and we'll have to deal with it in one week anyhow. Responsive? Not these guys.
    There are around 200-300 people actually reading these boards, and maybe 20-30 actually contributing. I think most of them are more that average interested in game and most have close-to-BiS characters. Hardly the right gang to ask for comments on how the changes will affect the majority of the players :)
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,196 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    vendood said:

    dionchi said:

    krumple01 said:

    i don't want this to be long or anything but neverwinter has been dead for long time from a market/in-game economy stand point guild or whaever everything that was added to the game mostly failed because of the way it was done

    now module 16 will kill neverwinter's highest attractive point wich is what most people are here for

    The combat system is what i'm talking about, we all have seen how slow and uncool mod 16 combat is , nobody wants this new combat system it's counter productive to release something that makes players quit the game entirely

    i know devs don't care about our opinion as player base and all but for this one time just listen to what people are saying you really will kill the game with the module at least let us have our good combat

    Although all your points are valid and right. I think there is still an opportunity for things to swing back the other direction. Call me overly optimistic but I think by mod 17 its possible they will reduce cool downs with a balance in damage and mob resistances. If the new system they claim is easier to tweak then I can see that once they start hearing the majority of the player base are not happy with how combat is playing out. I bet it will be addressed. So all I can say is if you have nothing but hate for mod 16 hang in there, its possible things might turn around. I'm not saying things will be perfect or amazing but its possible it might be addressed.

    If they reduce cool downs, drop damage from powers a bit and adjust resistances on mobs I can see it possibly returning to much faster pace combat. This however; doesn't even address the other aspect that a huge majority of players loved the options with feat and power choices but now that is all gone.

    i am aware that this may be possible but at what cost my friend ? after people leave the game for good they won't be trusting the company anymore with any changes so even if they make it better people who left because they were ignored won't come back and obviously won't be playing their magic the gathering game either in the future for such reasons
    I heard the same argument after Mod6 and several subsequent modification following...

    When people leave the game - or don't financially contribute as they once did because they no longer "trust the game", realistically that only applies to a minute portion of current players and likely not at all for many new and fairly new players [snip]
    I'm guessing PWI, Cryptic and Neverwinter are attempting changes with MOD16 to attract more new players, as well as well as keep as much as the 'magic" as they can for current players...

    As I see it with just about everything the only thing that inevitable is change because without change there is only stagnation and stagnation is a slow death.

    Simply trying to convince anyone that people left Neverwinter because of "changes" in the game seems to be ignoring a plethora of other factors like new/different games, burn out and yes, a few players are lost because of changes... changing a game from something a lot of players have become comfortable with to something they may no longer be as comfortable with. [snip]
    I see a number of people saying "eh, won't matter, survived mod 6, plenty doom callers, yadda yadda it won't be a big deal".

    Well, perhaps. We did survive mod 6 after all. Although as I mentioned earlier, we at least still had an engaging and customizable combat/character/feat/power etc. system to work with.

    For the ones who think it will all blow over, I recall a similar 're-write' project a large and well-established MMO did. It was called "Star Wars Galaxies".

    Quote from the wiki:

    "One week after this release the entire character development process was changed in the New Game Enhancements (NGE). Major changes included the reduction and simplification of professions, simplification of gameplay mechanics, and Jedi becoming a starting profession. This led to a number of players demanding their money back for the expansion. After a week or two of protests Sony offered refunds to anyone who asked for it. Many player towns became ghost towns due to the reaction of long term players who decided to depart en masse."

    It took 4 more years to die, but that was the re-write and the player exodus that killed it. So yeah, I think people have a valid reason to be worried, and it's not all just doom-crying.
    The problem is, for every SWG, there's 5 games that went through something similar and survived. Hell, even SWtoR survived doing something very similar to what's being done here. My Magic 8 Ball is broken, so I can't predict what the outcome will be, but the cynic in me, after reading through a lot of threads on the topic sees a lot more of what I saw in reaction to AC Odyssey's scaling: "But I won't be able to just go to low level areas and roflstomp everything", and frankly, I don't see that as a game closer position. It's the same argument that was used against the changes in swtor, and frankly, I was still roflstomping dailies in lowbie zones there after the change, and something that, despite having this mechanic the entire time I've played it, GW 2 never seems to struggle with. Ironically, I can tell the difference there when I'm running an 80 through a starter zone for map completions as opposed to when I'm just leveling in the zone.
    It would be interesting to see Cryptics numbers, both financially and player-wise.

    Doing such massive changes certainly carries with it a fairly high risk of the game going out of business. We have seen enough examples of that.

    It is however natural that a game's numbers are ever slipping downwards from launch. Nothing lasts forever in the game business. If NWs numbers are getting close to the terminate threshold anyways it might be worth the risk to attempt to revive the game by big changes.

    We have clear signs that the resources available to NW are being reduced over time: Gateway and Foundry shutoffs.
  • grogthemagnifgrogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    The problem was first created in Mod 2, the first upgrade. In the first upgrade, new content was added, but the xp cap remained the same. This created the, i don't need to dothis zone, I can skip it and still get to the level 60 cap.

    The same happened with mods 3-5, new content, but no xp cap raise to give each new player the opportunity to catch up to the first generation of players who had the time to do all the mods, get as many of the power points and possible and get all the boons. Then Mod 6 hit with the new level cap to Rank 70 with the opportunity to go to the cap and get most o the new content under the level increase. Now players could 'Speed Run" to level 70 in a week and then in a few days, skip a lot more of the lower content in doing so. The relatively lower caps for level 60 and 70 caused the newer players to arrive at level 70 with 4k IL instead of 12-14k IL. Barovia helped with the full set of equipment, but that was just a band aid, the level 70 xp cap had not bee raised after each of Mods 7-15 to accommodate the new players to play the equivalent amount of time and get the power points and boons to compete with the first generation. Later players complained when I pointed this out at first, that they like the lower level 60 and 70 xp caps because they could get there quicker and faster to compete with other level 70s, but they did so with less boons and less IL 20-30 less boons and 4-8k IL vs. 16-19k IL for the top players. Legendary equipment helped, Mythic Artifacts helped, Legendary Companions and Mounts helped,. raising Runes and enchants from 10-14 helped, Mount Insignia helped, but together they weren't enough to overcome the boon and IL gaps. The new professions exacerbated the problems by going from a system where 10 characters could do all theire regular crafting in 10-15 minutes a day to now those same 10 characters have to spend 3 hours a day (3 hours cut from questing/advancement) just to each make 1-2 Gp in profit.

    Masterworks is now harder than it used to be, but it should be harder. Making it really hard to advance is OK, but making it nearly impossible to compete and complete is just plain Stupid.

    What would help?:
    • adding 10 million xp to go from level 59-60 to allow players to do the content that they skipped going to level 60
    • adding 20 million xp to go from level 69-70 to allow players to do the content that they skipped going to level 70
    • adding 40 million xp to go from level 79-80 to allow players to do the content that they skipped going to level 80
    Those that are 16k and above can skip the above suggestions, but those that are level 70 and 4-12k IL will have to go through the above, Those that are 11-15k will have to do the zones they skipped to catch up on the boons and power points they are missing.

    Then, all the players will be about 72 million xp, have all the boons and 18k+ ILand be able to compete at level 80, IF new contents adds new xp to the level 80 cap.

    Until you've played all the content multiple times, and I have, you don't understand what you're missing.
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Member Posts: 596 Arc User
    Power points are gone, and the boons are no longer worth the effort.
  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,084 Arc User
    Do boons add to item level in mod 16? If so, then that would be their greatest value, as an iLvl padder.
  • brendaxnl#4453 brendaxnl Member Posts: 12 Arc User

    krumple01 said:



    i am aware that this may be possible but at what cost my friend ? after people leave the game for good they won't be trusting the company anymore with any changes so even if they make it better people who left because they were ignored won't come back and obviously won't be playing their magic the gathering game either in the future for such reasons
    Yep, what cost… On ps4, in chat, the thing u now see most is "selling guild, pm for info" selling account" etc.. So many people allready deleted the game, incl me..
    I cannot understand why people would support this company any longer tbh… They clearly dont care about their playerbase, or heck not even about their own game and thats the reason i deleted everthing incl a 18K CW and 16K TR and a bunch of leg stuff... they dont care, so why would i..
  • lauralijlauralij Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    MISSION IS IMPOSSIBLE!

    correct 3 bosses please...
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    lauralij said:

    MISSION IS IMPOSSIBLE!

    correct 3 bosses please...

    Here comes the darkness... mod fifteen can not save you.

  • flambridgeflambridge Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 191 Arc User
    The cooldown now is much looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonger to a game that enemies can attack 3 or 4 times per second. It is not League of Legends.
    We need an emergency patch to fix this, plz :s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s:s
  • gamerarc2000#5085 gamerarc2000 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Hello,
    following a release, the game become a nightmare, I can understand why now i can not fight even kill some Mob in the game and previously it was a peace of cake.... this is a HAMSTER update... stop playing and I will broadcast that everywhere. I m just not only leaving the game, I will do whatever it s take for making players quit also...
  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User

    Hello,
    following a release, the game become a nightmare, I can understand why now i can not fight even kill some Mob in the game and previously it was a peace of cake.... this is a HAMSTER update... stop playing and I will broadcast that everywhere. I m just not only leaving the game, I will do whatever it s take for making players quit also...

    Was that you in PE's chat last night trying to lie about what stats new characters get during roll up? I almost bought it, if it was, until I actually went and rolled a new character, at least to the stat roll page, to uncover the lie. IF that was you, you're going to have to try harder. Something as simple as that to catch isn't going to work.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    This game and STO are Cryptic cash cows. They first needed to get both on a system design that will allow them to extend the life of their product to continue to milk the players of the game for their money while focusing on other games that are new and up coming. With the new base for NWO it is now easier for the smaller team to continue development on the game; making cryptic overhead, long term, cheaper for the company. If the team can deliver like the larger older team and produce similar revenue the change to the game base/core was a success. This change allows cryptic to move some staff members onto other projects that will allow them to add additional revenue stream.

    Cryptic is a business and when a business is able to add simplicity, reduce its staff and keep revenues current or increase them the company see real world gains that was worth the initial upfront investment. In the case of NWO, it is the changes to the game core mechanics and making it easier for development long term.

    The other issue that NWO faced was the backlog of its Zax. Well the company up the max AD to Zen from 500 to 750. Here is the thing; anyone who is new or recently started will see this change and will be more incline to BUY ZEN and sell it for AD. This will change will add additional revenue; maybe pick up the loss revenue the company is expecting from players who decide that the simplicity of the game is not right for them.

    The final piece to all of this is the change to companions. Players that stick around and don't have a the better companions will have to acquire the companions one way or another. Either using up in game resources through the AH which removes AD from the game or by buying Zen to buy AD, which than increases Cryptic profits further.

    As for mod 16 and its changes many of the issues that players see can be resolved.

    1) Combat - it should now be easier to adjust encounter damage and cooldown to improve combat flow
    2) Scaling - this can be modified later after enough data is capture or the scaling method used can be changed to improve how the game scales players stats
    3) Complexity - this will not really come back into the game all that much as it will impact the simplicity that is required to keep a smaller staff to manage the game development. So if you want to play a complex MMO game NWO won't be it do to it going to a smaller staff for future development

    Mod 16 did fix the issues that many thought existed in prior mods: over buffing, debuffing, power sharing, etc.. The thing is though they didn't fix it; they pretty much removed most of the issue by removing most of the things that provided buff and debuffs.

    Mod 16 is a completely new game and I'm going to try it out for a bit and if I don't like I will move on. And someone else will come along and take my place in the game and enjoy it for what it is.

    The only thing I find funny is that I think Cryptic may missed one critical element with this decision and that is financially it is CHEAPER to keep and retain your current player base than to attract new players to an older game. Many older MMO games that are still running use player feedback to help fix issues, not as player tester but more as spring board on how to fix the issues. Such as when power sharing was becoming an issue when both a OP and DC were in the same group a better solution than removal of powers sharing was to only allow the player with the higher power provide power sharing. Another solution for OP tank was not allow the Protection tanks to select the power sharing feat from the healing paragon path.

    There were many ways to resolve the issues that game had. To me the reason mod 16 happened is not because of the prior issues we seen in the game, it is a financial investment by Cryptic long term to ensure the game can continue to be one of its cash cows. I'm just hoping the devs can fix the combat to make it fun; otherwise to me NWO is dead.
  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User

    This game and STO are Cryptic cash cows. They first needed to get both on a system design that will allow them to extend the life of their product to continue to milk the players of the game for their money while focusing on other games that are new and up coming. With the new base for NWO it is now easier for the smaller team to continue development on the game; making cryptic overhead, long term, cheaper for the company. If the team can deliver like the larger older team and produce similar revenue the change to the game base/core was a success. This change allows cryptic to move some staff members onto other projects that will allow them to add additional revenue stream.

    Cryptic is a business and when a business is able to add simplicity, reduce its staff and keep revenues current or increase them the company see real world gains that was worth the initial upfront investment. In the case of NWO, it is the changes to the game core mechanics and making it easier for development long term.

    The other issue that NWO faced was the backlog of its Zax. Well the company up the max AD to Zen from 500 to 750. Here is the thing; anyone who is new or recently started will see this change and will be more incline to BUY ZEN and sell it for AD. This will change will add additional revenue; maybe pick up the loss revenue the company is expecting from players who decide that the simplicity of the game is not right for them.

    The final piece to all of this is the change to companions. Players that stick around and don't have a the better companions will have to acquire the companions one way or another. Either using up in game resources through the AH which removes AD from the game or by buying Zen to buy AD, which than increases Cryptic profits further.

    As for mod 16 and its changes many of the issues that players see can be resolved.

    1) Combat - it should now be easier to adjust encounter damage and cooldown to improve combat flow
    2) Scaling - this can be modified later after enough data is capture or the scaling method used can be changed to improve how the game scales players stats
    3) Complexity - this will not really come back into the game all that much as it will impact the simplicity that is required to keep a smaller staff to manage the game development. So if you want to play a complex MMO game NWO won't be it do to it going to a smaller staff for future development

    Mod 16 did fix the issues that many thought existed in prior mods: over buffing, debuffing, power sharing, etc.. The thing is though they didn't fix it; they pretty much removed most of the issue by removing most of the things that provided buff and debuffs.

    Mod 16 is a completely new game and I'm going to try it out for a bit and if I don't like I will move on. And someone else will come along and take my place in the game and enjoy it for what it is.

    The only thing I find funny is that I think Cryptic may missed one critical element with this decision and that is financially it is CHEAPER to keep and retain your current player base than to attract new players to an older game. Many older MMO games that are still running use player feedback to help fix issues, not as player tester but more as spring board on how to fix the issues. Such as when power sharing was becoming an issue when both a OP and DC were in the same group a better solution than removal of powers sharing was to only allow the player with the higher power provide power sharing. Another solution for OP tank was not allow the Protection tanks to select the power sharing feat from the healing paragon path.

    There were many ways to resolve the issues that game had. To me the reason mod 16 happened is not because of the prior issues we seen in the game, it is a financial investment by Cryptic long term to ensure the game can continue to be one of its cash cows. I'm just hoping the devs can fix the combat to make it fun; otherwise to me NWO is dead.

    It's not efficient if that playerbase isn't paying the bills. It's nice to keep old customers, for sure, but since there are a ton of other factors that weigh in that are beyond their control, getting new blood is a really sound idea.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • valetudo78valetudo78 Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    They are not gonna get new players with this mod. Its worse than mod6. By the time (if) they get this game fixed it is gonna be to late. I decided to leave the game and take a break. I honestly don't see neverwinters dev team making a comeback in time to save this game. Theres just not a big enough playerbase to withstand such a terrible/buggy/bad design change to the game.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    This game and STO are Cryptic cash cows. They first needed to get both on a system design that will allow them to extend the life of their product to continue to milk the players of the game for their money while focusing on other games that are new and up coming. With the new base for NWO it is now easier for the smaller team to continue development on the game; making cryptic overhead, long term, cheaper for the company. If the team can deliver like the larger older team and produce similar revenue the change to the game base/core was a success. This change allows cryptic to move some staff members onto other projects that will allow them to add additional revenue stream.

    Cryptic is a business and when a business is able to add simplicity, reduce its staff and keep revenues current or increase them the company see real world gains that was worth the initial upfront investment. In the case of NWO, it is the changes to the game core mechanics and making it easier for development long term.

    The other issue that NWO faced was the backlog of its Zax. Well the company up the max AD to Zen from 500 to 750. Here is the thing; anyone who is new or recently started will see this change and will be more incline to BUY ZEN and sell it for AD. This will change will add additional revenue; maybe pick up the loss revenue the company is expecting from players who decide that the simplicity of the game is not right for them.

    The final piece to all of this is the change to companions. Players that stick around and don't have a the better companions will have to acquire the companions one way or another. Either using up in game resources through the AH which removes AD from the game or by buying Zen to buy AD, which than increases Cryptic profits further.

    As for mod 16 and its changes many of the issues that players see can be resolved.

    1) Combat - it should now be easier to adjust encounter damage and cooldown to improve combat flow
    2) Scaling - this can be modified later after enough data is capture or the scaling method used can be changed to improve how the game scales players stats
    3) Complexity - this will not really come back into the game all that much as it will impact the simplicity that is required to keep a smaller staff to manage the game development. So if you want to play a complex MMO game NWO won't be it do to it going to a smaller staff for future development

    Mod 16 did fix the issues that many thought existed in prior mods: over buffing, debuffing, power sharing, etc.. The thing is though they didn't fix it; they pretty much removed most of the issue by removing most of the things that provided buff and debuffs.

    Mod 16 is a completely new game and I'm going to try it out for a bit and if I don't like I will move on. And someone else will come along and take my place in the game and enjoy it for what it is.

    The only thing I find funny is that I think Cryptic may missed one critical element with this decision and that is financially it is CHEAPER to keep and retain your current player base than to attract new players to an older game. Many older MMO games that are still running use player feedback to help fix issues, not as player tester but more as spring board on how to fix the issues. Such as when power sharing was becoming an issue when both a OP and DC were in the same group a better solution than removal of powers sharing was to only allow the player with the higher power provide power sharing. Another solution for OP tank was not allow the Protection tanks to select the power sharing feat from the healing paragon path.

    There were many ways to resolve the issues that game had. To me the reason mod 16 happened is not because of the prior issues we seen in the game, it is a financial investment by Cryptic long term to ensure the game can continue to be one of its cash cows. I'm just hoping the devs can fix the combat to make it fun; otherwise to me NWO is dead.

    It's not efficient if that playerbase isn't paying the bills. It's nice to keep old customers, for sure, but since there are a ton of other factors that weigh in that are beyond their control, getting new blood is a really sound idea.
    You are being to naive to think that new blood will stick this out. Anyone who is fresh 70 and levels up to 80 will hate themselves for going to level 80 because the scaling for mod 16 is just horrible. Devs need to fix how stats are scaled and fix it sooner than later. Until that is fixed, there will always be an issue with this game.

    The other thing I wanted to point out is that even as a day 1 early start PS4 player I only stop spending at the start of 2019. I spent as recent as November but decided to wait and see how things unfold with mod 16.

    So instead of spending on NWO I bought Anthem, ESO DLCs and pre-ordered ESO new chapter, etc...

    That was all money I was going to put into Cryptic pocket but I didn't. That was around another $200 or so.

    I stated why it was done and why it will work out financially for Cryptic. And many of the issues can be fixed. The one issue I see that many want back that I don't think will ever really come back to NWO is the complexity we had with character design/builds.

    This game still has potential; however, the problem is there are to many issues ATM that needs attention to allow the game potential to truly come through. Maybe by mod 18 NWO potential will show up, maybe.

  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User

    This game and STO are Cryptic cash cows. They first needed to get both on a system design that will allow them to extend the life of their product to continue to milk the players of the game for their money while focusing on other games that are new and up coming. With the new base for NWO it is now easier for the smaller team to continue development on the game; making cryptic overhead, long term, cheaper for the company. If the team can deliver like the larger older team and produce similar revenue the change to the game base/core was a success. This change allows cryptic to move some staff members onto other projects that will allow them to add additional revenue stream.

    Cryptic is a business and when a business is able to add simplicity, reduce its staff and keep revenues current or increase them the company see real world gains that was worth the initial upfront investment. In the case of NWO, it is the changes to the game core mechanics and making it easier for development long term.

    The other issue that NWO faced was the backlog of its Zax. Well the company up the max AD to Zen from 500 to 750. Here is the thing; anyone who is new or recently started will see this change and will be more incline to BUY ZEN and sell it for AD. This will change will add additional revenue; maybe pick up the loss revenue the company is expecting from players who decide that the simplicity of the game is not right for them.

    The final piece to all of this is the change to companions. Players that stick around and don't have a the better companions will have to acquire the companions one way or another. Either using up in game resources through the AH which removes AD from the game or by buying Zen to buy AD, which than increases Cryptic profits further.

    As for mod 16 and its changes many of the issues that players see can be resolved.

    1) Combat - it should now be easier to adjust encounter damage and cooldown to improve combat flow
    2) Scaling - this can be modified later after enough data is capture or the scaling method used can be changed to improve how the game scales players stats
    3) Complexity - this will not really come back into the game all that much as it will impact the simplicity that is required to keep a smaller staff to manage the game development. So if you want to play a complex MMO game NWO won't be it do to it going to a smaller staff for future development

    Mod 16 did fix the issues that many thought existed in prior mods: over buffing, debuffing, power sharing, etc.. The thing is though they didn't fix it; they pretty much removed most of the issue by removing most of the things that provided buff and debuffs.

    Mod 16 is a completely new game and I'm going to try it out for a bit and if I don't like I will move on. And someone else will come along and take my place in the game and enjoy it for what it is.

    The only thing I find funny is that I think Cryptic may missed one critical element with this decision and that is financially it is CHEAPER to keep and retain your current player base than to attract new players to an older game. Many older MMO games that are still running use player feedback to help fix issues, not as player tester but more as spring board on how to fix the issues. Such as when power sharing was becoming an issue when both a OP and DC were in the same group a better solution than removal of powers sharing was to only allow the player with the higher power provide power sharing. Another solution for OP tank was not allow the Protection tanks to select the power sharing feat from the healing paragon path.

    There were many ways to resolve the issues that game had. To me the reason mod 16 happened is not because of the prior issues we seen in the game, it is a financial investment by Cryptic long term to ensure the game can continue to be one of its cash cows. I'm just hoping the devs can fix the combat to make it fun; otherwise to me NWO is dead.

    It's not efficient if that playerbase isn't paying the bills. It's nice to keep old customers, for sure, but since there are a ton of other factors that weigh in that are beyond their control, getting new blood is a really sound idea.
    You are being to naive to think that new blood will stick this out. Anyone who is fresh 70 and levels up to 80 will hate themselves for going to level 80 because the scaling for mod 16 is just horrible. Devs need to fix how stats are scaled and fix it sooner than later. Until that is fixed, there will always be an issue with this game.

    The other thing I wanted to point out is that even as a day 1 early start PS4 player I only stop spending at the start of 2019. I spent as recent as November but decided to wait and see how things unfold with mod 16.

    So instead of spending on NWO I bought Anthem, ESO DLCs and pre-ordered ESO new chapter, etc...

    That was all money I was going to put into Cryptic pocket but I didn't. That was around another $200 or so.

    I stated why it was done and why it will work out financially for Cryptic. And many of the issues can be fixed. The one issue I see that many want back that I don't think will ever really come back to NWO is the complexity we had with character design/builds.

    This game still has potential; however, the problem is there are to many issues ATM that needs attention to allow the game potential to truly come through. Maybe by mod 18 NWO potential will show up, maybe.

    Thank you for demonstrating my point.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • flambridgeflambridge Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 191 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    lauralij said:

    MISSION IS IMPOSSIBLE!

    correct 3 bosses please...

    KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK...
    300.000 damage of one hit, 300.000 damage of one hit kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.....
    One "common slap hit" of 300.000 damage kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk....
    23.000 Item Level and he have several difficult to survive kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.,,
    This is insane, absolute insane kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk....

    Seriously, this mod never was tested before launch XD XD XD
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    lauralij said:

    MISSION IS IMPOSSIBLE!

    correct 3 bosses please...

    KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK...
    300.000 damage of one hit, 300.000 damage of one hit kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.....
    One "common slap hit" of 300.000 damage kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk....
    23.000 Item Level and he have several difficult to survive kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.,,
    This is insane, absolute insane kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk....

    Seriously, this mod never was tested before launch XD XD XD
    Its better now. The dungeons are being fixed. I'm sure they will still be finding things to fix or tweak.

  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    Neverwinter's "Strong Point" was that it played like a Diablo clone. At least that's what the OP and a majority of ppl on these forums are saying. It was fast. Things died really fast. You could solo a dungeon really fast. Etc, etc.

    They aren't wrong. That sort of action is very attractive. And obviously a lot of people thought so too. Unfortunately, this is not an Action RPG. You aren't meant to be able to half HAMSTER a Demogorgan run and still finish it in under 5 minutes. You are not meant to be able to solo dungeons while watching Netflix. This is an MMO, you are meant to have to group up to compete in EVERYTHING. If you solo, it should be really hard. Not impossible, but really hard.

    The rot may have already spread too deep unfortunately. Too many people might already have these expectations ingrained in them. And taking away their toys will always upset people.

    Its not helped in that the Dev's seem to radiate cluelessness when it comes to balance of course. And the bugs.....
  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User
    havlocke said:

    Neverwinter's "Strong Point" was that it played like a Diablo clone. At least that's what the OP and a majority of ppl on these forums are saying. It was fast. Things died really fast. You could solo a dungeon really fast. Etc, etc.

    They aren't wrong. That sort of action is very attractive. And obviously a lot of people thought so too. Unfortunately, this is not an Action RPG. You aren't meant to be able to half HAMSTER a Demogorgan run and still finish it in under 5 minutes. You are not meant to be able to solo dungeons while watching Netflix. This is an MMO, you are meant to have to group up to compete in EVERYTHING. If you solo, it should be really hard. Not impossible, but really hard.

    The rot may have already spread too deep unfortunately. Too many people might already have these expectations ingrained in them. And taking away their toys will always upset people.

    Its not helped in that the Dev's seem to radiate cluelessness when it comes to balance of course. And the bugs.....

    A lot of what floods PE these days is exactly this kind of thing. It's "I can't solo group content any more" or "Why do I have to heal, as a healer". I'm sure there are, or were, some legit concerns, yesterday's patchapalooza sort of carries that out, but a lot of what goes on is "they took my toys". The other problem is that there are no guides, or builds, posted yet for those that don't want to figure it out, but just want to copy/paste what someone else discovered.

    "Balance" is a lie, however, and one that can never actually be achieved. No matter what they do, there are theory crafters that can find ways to maximize a build beyond what the devs thought possible. I've seen it in every mmo where there are different types of builds, and have even come up with one or two of my own over the years. Gaming Gods forbid someone does that in a PvP setting, as it's always going to come with some players that are going to accuse them of hacking.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • honestabe73honestabe73 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    I'm in the boat that MOD16 is much like the NGE to Star Wars Galaxies. Vets hated it, newbies loved it at first but slowly the rot set in. Some Vets learned to deal with it since much of the game they loved was still there. However, horrible bugs continued to exist after each patch, class rebalances (nerfs) caused uproars, content got less fun. Each change forward, the game withered a bit more and lost more people until at last it was just a shambling corpse. Then the developer finally double-tapped it.
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    havlocke said:

    Neverwinter's "Strong Point" was that it played like a Diablo clone. At least that's what the OP and a majority of ppl on these forums are saying. It was fast. Things died really fast. You could solo a dungeon really fast. Etc, etc.

    They aren't wrong. That sort of action is very attractive. And obviously a lot of people thought so too. Unfortunately, this is not an Action RPG. You aren't meant to be able to half HAMSTER a Demogorgan run and still finish it in under 5 minutes. You are not meant to be able to solo dungeons while watching Netflix. This is an MMO, you are meant to have to group up to compete in EVERYTHING. If you solo, it should be really hard. Not impossible, but really hard.

    The rot may have already spread too deep unfortunately. Too many people might already have these expectations ingrained in them. And taking away their toys will always upset people.

    Its not helped in that the Dev's seem to radiate cluelessness when it comes to balance of course. And the bugs.....

    A lot of what floods PE these days is exactly this kind of thing. It's "I can't solo group content any more" or "Why do I have to heal, as a healer". I'm sure there are, or were, some legit concerns, yesterday's patchapalooza sort of carries that out, but a lot of what goes on is "they took my toys". The other problem is that there are no guides, or builds, posted yet for those that don't want to figure it out, but just want to copy/paste what someone else discovered.

    "Balance" is a lie, however, and one that can never actually be achieved. No matter what they do, there are theory crafters that can find ways to maximize a build beyond what the devs thought possible. I've seen it in every mmo where there are different types of builds, and have even come up with one or two of my own over the years. Gaming Gods forbid someone does that in a PvP setting, as it's always going to come with some players that are going to accuse them of hacking.
    Yep, "Balance" is always a pipe dream in a creature like an MMO, but at least there should be some effort to make it look like you are trying :)

    As to your first point, I've realised you are dead right. That is probably some (not all, but some) of the reason for all this grumbling. A lot of people are just used to the copy/paste method of playing. And the lack of guides, youtube streamers, etc. and the need to figure things out from actual play is too hard.
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    I'm in the boat that MOD16 is much like the NGE to Star Wars Galaxies. Vets hated it, newbies loved it at first but slowly the rot set in. Some Vets learned to deal with it since much of the game they loved was still there. However, horrible bugs continued to exist after each patch, class rebalances (nerfs) caused uproars, content got less fun. Each change forward, the game withered a bit more and lost more people until at last it was just a shambling corpse. Then the developer finally double-tapped it.

    As was stated many times, its not like the Devs had a choice. People keep going on about how they've done this and that, but seriously, do you really think they'd have done something like this if they could avoid it? Everybody could see what a train wreck it was going to be - and that was even if by some miracle they managed to avoid the bugs, which they haven't. They did it because they had to.

    1) The game code was so old and patched and a mess that it could not have stood up to another year of mods before falling over.

    2) The game was also based on 4th Ed (you can scoff all you like, but I am playing a 4th Ed campaign that's 10+ years old now and I can categorically state, its got more in common with 4th Ed than any of the other versions) and 4th Ed is gone, WotC are all about 5th Ed.

    3) The endgame was frustrating and boring for a majority of people and was losing people. With "bang you are dead" mechanics and a complete imbalance between classes. It was already dead man walking. Maybe not for some, but I'd say Cryptic has a better idea about overall numbers to make this call than we do.

  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User
    havlocke said:

    havlocke said:

    Neverwinter's "Strong Point" was that it played like a Diablo clone. At least that's what the OP and a majority of ppl on these forums are saying. It was fast. Things died really fast. You could solo a dungeon really fast. Etc, etc.

    They aren't wrong. That sort of action is very attractive. And obviously a lot of people thought so too. Unfortunately, this is not an Action RPG. You aren't meant to be able to half HAMSTER a Demogorgan run and still finish it in under 5 minutes. You are not meant to be able to solo dungeons while watching Netflix. This is an MMO, you are meant to have to group up to compete in EVERYTHING. If you solo, it should be really hard. Not impossible, but really hard.

    The rot may have already spread too deep unfortunately. Too many people might already have these expectations ingrained in them. And taking away their toys will always upset people.

    Its not helped in that the Dev's seem to radiate cluelessness when it comes to balance of course. And the bugs.....

    A lot of what floods PE these days is exactly this kind of thing. It's "I can't solo group content any more" or "Why do I have to heal, as a healer". I'm sure there are, or were, some legit concerns, yesterday's patchapalooza sort of carries that out, but a lot of what goes on is "they took my toys". The other problem is that there are no guides, or builds, posted yet for those that don't want to figure it out, but just want to copy/paste what someone else discovered.

    "Balance" is a lie, however, and one that can never actually be achieved. No matter what they do, there are theory crafters that can find ways to maximize a build beyond what the devs thought possible. I've seen it in every mmo where there are different types of builds, and have even come up with one or two of my own over the years. Gaming Gods forbid someone does that in a PvP setting, as it's always going to come with some players that are going to accuse them of hacking.
    Yep, "Balance" is always a pipe dream in a creature like an MMO, but at least there should be some effort to make it look like you are trying :)

    As to your first point, I've realised you are dead right. That is probably some (not all, but some) of the reason for all this grumbling. A lot of people are just used to the copy/paste method of playing. And the lack of guides, youtube streamers, etc. and the need to figure things out from actual play is too hard.
    It's the nature of the beast, from what I've observed. For every theory crafter working to find unique ways to play a class, there are 1000 players waiting for them to post a build for a specific class that they can use. Not to imply that there's anything wrong with that. Some systems can be extremely convoluted to figure out. I've spent the last few days trying to sort out my archer, and I think I've found something that works relatively well, took the top spot in the "protect the village" skirmish a few minutes ago, by 600k damage. Can't wait to get my rogues in there to see how they do.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    havlocke said:

    havlocke said:

    Neverwinter's "Strong Point" was that it played like a Diablo clone. At least that's what the OP and a majority of ppl on these forums are saying. It was fast. Things died really fast. You could solo a dungeon really fast. Etc, etc.

    They aren't wrong. That sort of action is very attractive. And obviously a lot of people thought so too. Unfortunately, this is not an Action RPG. You aren't meant to be able to half HAMSTER a Demogorgan run and still finish it in under 5 minutes. You are not meant to be able to solo dungeons while watching Netflix. This is an MMO, you are meant to have to group up to compete in EVERYTHING. If you solo, it should be really hard. Not impossible, but really hard.

    The rot may have already spread too deep unfortunately. Too many people might already have these expectations ingrained in them. And taking away their toys will always upset people.

    Its not helped in that the Dev's seem to radiate cluelessness when it comes to balance of course. And the bugs.....

    A lot of what floods PE these days is exactly this kind of thing. It's "I can't solo group content any more" or "Why do I have to heal, as a healer". I'm sure there are, or were, some legit concerns, yesterday's patchapalooza sort of carries that out, but a lot of what goes on is "they took my toys". The other problem is that there are no guides, or builds, posted yet for those that don't want to figure it out, but just want to copy/paste what someone else discovered.

    "Balance" is a lie, however, and one that can never actually be achieved. No matter what they do, there are theory crafters that can find ways to maximize a build beyond what the devs thought possible. I've seen it in every mmo where there are different types of builds, and have even come up with one or two of my own over the years. Gaming Gods forbid someone does that in a PvP setting, as it's always going to come with some players that are going to accuse them of hacking.
    Yep, "Balance" is always a pipe dream in a creature like an MMO, but at least there should be some effort to make it look like you are trying :)

    As to your first point, I've realised you are dead right. That is probably some (not all, but some) of the reason for all this grumbling. A lot of people are just used to the copy/paste method of playing. And the lack of guides, youtube streamers, etc. and the need to figure things out from actual play is too hard.
    It's the nature of the beast, from what I've observed. For every theory crafter working to find unique ways to play a class, there are 1000 players waiting for them to post a build for a specific class that they can use. Not to imply that there's anything wrong with that. Some systems can be extremely convoluted to figure out. I've spent the last few days trying to sort out my archer, and I think I've found something that works relatively well, took the top spot in the "protect the village" skirmish a few minutes ago, by 600k damage. Can't wait to get my rogues in there to see how they do.
    I'm working a 6 day roster atm so I'm not playing as heavily as I could so I haven't had much chance to do much other than just rebuild my 2 favourite toons. Still, I'm enjoying my Rogue a lot more than I did previously. And I've found absolutely nothing wrong with my Pally. Doesn't burn things to the ground like my Burnadin build used to but she's still a decent healer and will keep a tank alive while still doing some damage. Tweaking both builds as I play them.
  • lucadamingolucadamingo Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    I play pretty much everyday and have played since the game started (minus when I quite for 2 years after mod 6),but I haven't played since mod 16 came out cause I knew it was just going to HAMSTER me off.I finally played a bunch today and it's just pathetic.Sorry I don't have anything constructive to say I simply don't care enough to discuss it with anyone.
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    I play pretty much everyday and have played since the game started (minus when I quite for 2 years after mod 6),but I haven't played since mod 16 came out cause I knew it was just going to HAMSTER me off.I finally played a bunch today and it's just pathetic.Sorry I don't have anything constructive to say I simply don't care enough to discuss it with anyone.

    I don't get this. Why do people feel the need to say this? If I didn't like this game, I'd just be gone.
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