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K Team Optimal Compositions: "Tanks FTW"

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  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @feanor70118 said:
    > While I'm glad there is a reliable way to deal with the more difficult K-Team events, it's still obnoxious that it involved over-reliance on support classes that most of us don't want to play. What's the point of having a DPS class if to get BiS gear for it you have to play a non-DPS class all the time?
    >
    >
    >
    > 90% of the games content is geared towards DPS and allowing DPS toons to get through content almost 2x as fast. Seems kinda odd to complain about that 10% content not geared toward DPS. Let the support toons have their 10%, there are players that actually enjoy playing support, healers, and tanks.
    >
    > No one is trying to take your game away from you. Practically ALL the content at RAQ level or above requires more than two support classes (at minimum entry IL) so it's a lot more than 10% of the game. It's all of the game as far as high-level enchantment and gear upgrades or decent loot.
    >
    > And there's no reason that a support class should have to be over-represented in any of it.

    On topic, if you have a support alt, your DPS toons do not need to run KTeam to get the lvl 600 gear.

    The "Omin IOU" vendor in the basement of AcqInc sells gear of any class to you.
    For example, my 4 support toons have equipped my lonely DPS toon with 600 gear.

    From what I hear, the 600 gear is not BiS for most DPS builds anyway.

    There's no more DPS discrimination in KTeam then anywhere else. Not a major issue.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Posts: 1,117Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 12


    On topic, if you have a support alt, your DPS toons do not need to run KTeam to get the lvl 600 gear.



    The "Omin IOU" vendor in the basement of AcqInc sells gear of any class to you.

    No kidding. Also not on topic since the topic is over-reliance on support classes and this is the REVERSE of addressing that concern.


    For example, my 4 support toons have equipped my lonely DPS toon with 600 gear.



    Still actually the reverse of being on topic.


    From what I hear, the 600 gear is not BiS for most DPS builds anyway.



    That depends on the class. There aren't really good options for head an body pieces for HRs due to stacking concerns about the buffs they provide (apparently some things with similar bonuses stack now, but those are level 450 and 480 pieces and a 3% melee buff isn't all that awesome compared to something that provides 2000 more power as well as some crit to get to the magic 100% mark, which of course isn't really 100% crit since the devs won't make HR function as advertised these last few years, but that's a whole other topic. But anyhow the 600 stuff is good for one or two pieces for combat HRs.


    There's no more DPS discrimination in KTeam then anywhere else. Not a major issue.

    Actually the entire point of this thread, which you started, is that more difficult K-Team content only works with over-reliance on support classes, so one questions whether you are actually the same person who wrote the original post.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Update:

    Cragmire Crypt KTeam week. CC is hardly considered challenging to endgame players, but there are two fights where this composition can save the run.

    The "Competing Adventure Party" and final boss both have special attacks and AoEs that can easily one-hit a squishy teammate.
    Make sure the tanks engage first.
    Make sure and that Divine Protector, Knights Valor and Astral Shield are up when the rest of the team enter.
    Averaging 1.3 tries/win on 6 toons this week.

    Overtanking still works in k-team.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 1,138Member Arc User

    Update:



    Cragmire Crypt KTeam week. CC is hardly considered challenging to endgame players, but there are two fights where this composition can save the run.



    The "Competing Adventure Party" and final boss both have special attacks and AoEs that can easily one-hit a squishy teammate.

    Make sure the tanks engage first.

    Make sure and that Divine Protector, Knights Valor and Astral Shield are up when the rest of the team enter.

    Averaging 1.3 tries/win on 6 toons this week.



    Overtanking still works in k-team.

    I like these updates and tactics advice thank you.

    [For me the pressures of trying to tank with a GF and me being way too slow on the keyboard with an non-optimal tank loadout [basically not enough Defense] I have decided to more or less retire my GF and play GWF for a while, it does seem like a walk in the park compared to the stress of trying to protect/tank underpowered teams in some of the not even close to endgame content.

  • tdknxt0tdknxt0 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    I've done every k-team so far without much difficulty and the only thing that has stayed constant throughout was that we had an OP tank and OP devo, and a DC. Rest was 'who wants to join k-team?' We even ran with 3 OPs when we did MSP. (the most painful one so far)
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,290Member Arc User
    Doing MSP k-team with a GF and 3 dps is a hard taks in my world, there is no "easy way".
    Further more in my world this game is and allways was centered arround support classes. Once it was much worse, near hard to stand, when you did read nothing else that lfm DC-DC-OP-GF. Things got better by downgrading burst ability from Conqueror GF a bit by fixing long lasting bugs (SWW) and by breaking the dominance of double DC setup.
    But anyway GF+devo+2xsupport still is the smoothest and mostly fastest way to absolve actual endcontent same as k team.
    Who ever say "it´s not", should ask himself, if he ever knew how to correctly buff with his support class.
    I run 4 Support classes: OP, GF, DC, and a SW, wich is fully stuffed for dps but is not asked to do so, neither in k-team nor in endcontent, even tough I know he can do good, since the ability to buff outweights the dps-setup if you run beside a good performing dps, same as the ability to save butts by instant heals on top.
    It is from no benefit to stuff another class as a full dps, wich is a pretty expensive trip, I accepted that cryptic way of classbalance. No need for endless and unsolved discussions any more :)
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 397Member Arc User
    tdknxt0 said:

    I've done every k-team so far without much difficulty and the only thing that has stayed constant throughout was that we had an OP tank and OP devo, and a DC. Rest was 'who wants to join k-team?' We even ran with 3 OPs when we did MSP. (the most painful one so far)

    you have not tried CR, have you ?
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @iamsmokingone#2455 said:
    > personally i have no desire to do k-team, as it gives no acorns and the gear is suboptimal...."

    Then don't. Who's making you?
    For the rest of us, running content that is challenging and has a real sense of death-fear is exciting.
    Also, as has been said repeatedly, the 600lv gear is not BiS, but it is free, can be any class and can be shared with alt.

    A great way to give gear to an undergeared alt who cannot run the hardest content.

    "....but the other day i saw someone asking for 3 OP to do cragmire crypts k-team. I almost fell off my chair laughing....I mean really 3 OP? "

    Agreed. 3OPs is redundant. You did not read the thread apparently. No one here suggested that.

    3 COMPLIMENTARY Tanks, bro.

    GF Tact w KV.
    OP Prot.
    OP Devo.
    +
    DC
    DPS (any)

    That's what we run KTeam and we crush it, usually in 1 try.

    The devo spot can be filled with a Temp. That also works and gets our SW friends some Omin IOUs.

    "... i could likely solo this "Hardcore" dungeon on my 14k OP... "

    Gratz. You are epic.

    "i am carrying this whole group since i am at the top of all the charts"

    Gratz. You are epic.

    "....and to be honest i don't mind being a wheelchair every now and then..."

    Very benevolent of you. Gratz. You are epic.

    "... it would have been a helluva a lot faster with a normal party"

    Nope. Calling BullHAMSTER on that.

    The average "normal" composition party will NOT finish a hard KTeam in 15 min in 1 try.

    You don't seem to get the concept.
    1 single death ends the run.

    The average "normal" party FBI or MSP has 3-4 deaths on a 15min speed run.

    1 death in KTeam is a reset.
    Meaning, you end up running it 3-4 times before you win (or quit in frustration).
    This thread is to discuss ways of avoiding that.

    "...but because people like the author of this thread put their wild theories out to the public we have groups taking 45 mins to an hour to complete a dungeon"

    Not if you finish it in 1 try. That's the point. We only lose the 2nd buffer slot which barely shaves 5 min off of a 20 min dungeon.

    We did KTeam FBI in 1 try in 22 min.
    Have the ACTs to prove it.

    If you are taking 45min you are doing it wrong.

    "...that should take 10 minutes."
    LOL
    You did KTeam FBI, MSP and CC in 1 try... in 10 min each.
    Sure.
    Cool story bro.

    "...its people like you who are ruining the community of this game"

    Sharing composition ideas based on personal experiences is "ruining the game".

    Encouraging discussion to help people finish KTeam in one try is "ruining the game".

    Ooookay. lol
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,290Member Arc User
    @iamsmokingone#2455
    personally I think you did smoke too much and never stepped into k team at all.
    Amusing to read so much nonsense in one post, thanks for trolling. :)
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 397Member Arc User
    imigh t be a little drunk rignt nwa bjut imma say thisma, partysompostiion s are as they always were, ( core partu of OP prot/deo + dc AC +GF + mofhe/bnfr/hr/sw/ mof/ + adcc dps same as t always have been same will be
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    imigh t be a little drunk rignt nwa bjut imma say thisma, partysompostiion s are as they always were, ( core partu of OP prot/deo + dc AC +GF + mofhe/bnfr/hr/sw/ mof/ + adcc dps same as t always have been same will be

    shhhounds goood man, mannn, I loove you man. Yoooour da bessssht man.
    jk

    Seriously, that's fine if you can honestly say with a standard meta group you NEVER have a single death in KTeam FBI, MSP or CR?
    Is that what you (or your booze) are saying?
    Amazing. Then this discussion is not for you, right?

    The rest of us lowly peasants usually have at least one death or two in a normal party in FBI, MSP or CR.

    The Prot, Devo, GF-Tact ("3T-FTW") concept works in KTeam for us mere mortals.

    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • tdknxt0tdknxt0 Posts: 3Member Arc User
    > @leonidrex said:
    > I've done every k-team so far without much difficulty and the only thing that has stayed constant throughout was that we had an OP tank and OP devo, and a DC. Rest was 'who wants to join k-team?' We even ran with 3 OPs when we did MSP. (the most painful one so far)
    >
    > you have not tried CR, have you ?

    I've done CR as tank, healer, dps, and buffer, and got full Lord sets on 3 toons. :)

    What I'm trying to say is thst good teamwork and experience outweigh class composition.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Update:
    K Team ToNG week.

    This one was tough.

    ToNG has several "one-hit" hotspots.
    A standard rainbow or meta team (even high gear/high experience) has a very low probability of completing tong with zero deaths.

    Even our "3T FTW" comp [Prot, Devo, Tact, AC, DPS] had 3 deaths the first 2 groups, all at Ras Nisi.
    HAMSTERing painful!

    Focusing on synchronized mitigation at these 7 key hotspots, we had 1-try wins the last 5 groups [1 each GWF, SW, CW, HR and TR in the DPS spot... they all did well]:

    1) The "Coffin Puzzle" Room

    It's just the usual mobs, but one-hits happen when the party splits up to activate the coffins. If someone rushes the final coffin alone and unprotected (or aggros side-mobs while alone) this is a common wipe to the run.

    Solution:
    Stay together in the middle. Send just one fast toon to activate the first two. Then all engage the last coffin together, all defenses up (divine protector, astral shield, KV, etc).

    2) Shadows
    This includes the hallway after the "coffin room" and the square around Orcus. Getting caught alone with a shadow is a KTeam wipe.
    Solution:
    Engage together, Prot and Tact in front. DC spamming AA and heals while DPS burns them.

    In Orcus' room, be proactive. Seek out the wandering shadow pack first in this manner.
    Don't risk a straggling player getting choked-out while the rest are engaging the mob pack.

    When that shadow pack is dead, there should be just one more to deal with mixed in the middle mob pack. Have a tank mark this pack from a distance. This aggros the entire group , including the shadow. With Prot and Tact in front, the shadow will "uncloak" for everyone to target and kill. Kill it first before anything else.

    3)Orcus
    Ironically, he isn't a major 1 hit risk unless the tanks separate aggro and spin him.
    Solution:
    Have Prot and Tact stand close together. The rest is easy Orcus burn as usual.

    4)Puzzles
    In KTeam, solve them.
    All of them.
    Every mob pack is a chance to have someone die. Skip those puzzle-failure fights completely in KTeam.

    5) "Behind the scenes"
    Resist the temptation to pull all the mobs in the hallway leading to Withers together for one big fight.
    That's standard technique for "regular" ToNG, but a needless risk in KTeam. Some slow player is often left alone picking up the rear, leaving them vulnerable. Plus the multiple overlapping AoEs are a needless risk.
    Solution:
    Fight each of the three groups seperately. Slower, but safe and easy.

    6) Withers
    This fight breaks the theme of overtanking.
    One-hits happen when this fight takes too long, especially witb Golems and flame throwers.
    Withers needs a quick burn.
    Solution:
    Business as usual. Same strat as regular ToNG.
    Buff and burn.
    GF goes conqueror DPS or tact with buff/dps encounters. DC goes full buff (exalt, BtS). All stay close to the Prot and Devo. End it fast.

    7) Ras Nisi's "Ultimate" attack after the ghost phases.

    So this is what wiped us a few times. Every time it was a 1 hit on someone with stacks of Ras Nisi's Debuff. He hits through Divine Protector, AA and KV. If you have too many debuff stacks you are at high risk of a 1-hit. Normally, we don't care because at that point the dungeon is won. Just use a scroll or get rezzed.
    But in KTeam, it's a PAINFUL gameover.

    Solution:
    Avoid the red area/debuff at all cost, especially squishier toons.
    The debuff is much more dangerous in KTeam then regular ToNG.

    Conclusion:
    This was a tough KTeam.
    Many players are passing on KTeam this week. I can't blame them.
    Still, "3T FTW" had a better chance then any other comp.

    Any other advice for this nasty KTeam?
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 397Member Arc User

    Update:

    K Team ToNG week.



    This one was tough.



    ToNG has several "one-hit" hotspots.

    A standard rainbow or meta team (even high gear/high experience) has a very low probability of completing tong with zero deaths.



    Even our "3T FTW" comp [Prot, Devo, Tact, AC, DPS] had 3 deaths the first 2 groups, all at Ras Nisi.

    HAMSTERing painful!



    Focusing on synchronized mitigation at these 7 key hotspots, we had 1-try wins the last 5 groups [1 each GWF, SW, CW, HR and TR in the DPS spot... they all did well]:



    1) The "Coffin Puzzle" Room



    It's just the usual mobs, but one-hits happen when the party splits up to activate the coffins. If someone rushes the final coffin alone and unprotected (or aggros side-mobs while alone) this is a common wipe to the run.



    Solution:

    Stay together in the middle. Send just one fast toon to activate the first two. Then all engage the last coffin together, all defenses up (divine protector, astral shield, KV, etc).



    2) Shadows

    This includes the hallway after the "coffin room" and the square around Orcus. Getting caught alone with a shadow is a KTeam wipe.

    Solution:

    Engage together, Prot and Tact in front. DC spamming AA and heals while DPS burns them.



    In Orcus' room, be proactive. Seek out the wandering shadow pack first in this manner.

    Don't risk a straggling player getting choked-out while the rest are engaging the mob pack.



    When that shadow pack is dead, there should be just one more to deal with mixed in the middle mob pack. Have a tank mark this pack from a distance. This aggros the entire group , including the shadow. With Prot and Tact in front, the shadow will "uncloak" for everyone to target and kill. Kill it first before anything else.



    3)Orcus

    Ironically, he isn't a major 1 hit risk unless the tanks separate aggro and spin him.

    Solution:

    Have Prot and Tact stand close together. The rest is easy Orcus burn as usual.



    4)Puzzles

    In KTeam, solve them.

    All of them.

    Every mob pack is a chance to have someone die. Skip those puzzle-failure fights completely in KTeam.



    5) "Behind the scenes"

    Resist the temptation to pull all the mobs in the hallway leading to Withers together for one big fight.

    That's standard technique for "regular" ToNG, but a needless risk in KTeam. Some slow player is often left alone picking up the rear, leaving them vulnerable. Plus the multiple overlapping AoEs are a needless risk.

    Solution:

    Fight each of the three groups seperately. Slower, but safe and easy.



    6) Withers

    This fight breaks the theme of overtanking.

    One-hits happen when this fight takes too long, especially witb Golems and flame throwers.

    Withers needs a quick burn.

    Solution:

    Business as usual. Same strat as regular ToNG.

    Buff and burn.

    GF goes conqueror DPS or tact with buff/dps encounters. DC goes full buff (exalt, BtS). All stay close to the Prot and Devo. End it fast.



    7) Ras Nisi's "Ultimate" attack after the ghost phases.



    So this is what wiped us a few times. Every time it was a 1 hit on someone with stacks of Ras Nisi's Debuff. He hits through Divine Protector, AA and KV. If you have too many debuff stacks you are at high risk of a 1-hit. Normally, we don't care because at that point the dungeon is won. Just use a scroll or get rezzed.

    But in KTeam, it's a PAINFUL gameover.



    Solution:

    Avoid the red area/debuff at all cost, especially squishier toons.

    The debuff is much more dangerous in KTeam then regular ToNG.



    Conclusion:

    This was a tough KTeam.

    Many players are passing on KTeam this week. I can't blame them.

    Still, "3T FTW" had a better chance then any other comp.



    Any other advice for this nasty KTeam?

    first of all, i apologise if i sounded elitist in my drunken rambling from before, it was not my intention. secound of all. im currently tipsy so take what im going to type afterwards with a grain of salt. Things that CAN kill you in tong are
    1 Balls during orcus.
    2 Shadows.
    3 CC chain during sec boss.
    4 Wraith crit on a tank that doesnt expect it.
    5x Ras nisi paralyzne hits, debuffs, loss of comp, slow dps or throwing off platform.

    ~1 You just need to comunicate with voice chat, or have someone with sharp eye do the duty, best someone who has big rotation window between abilities, like SW or GF.
    ~2 ( most ammounts of deaths I had was due it ) Knowing the spots they spawn is crutial, there is a spot you can triger 1 shadw before engaging a pack of mobs, so it is a safe thing to do. Focusing them down when they do trigger. And also if you do not do traps, and start over near campfire, they sometimes spawn right after you exit, dont leave teammates behind!
    ~3 This one is rought, simply becouse most burden is on ACDC to keep CC immunity up. For example as devo paladin, i CANT outheal the damage, if acdc doesnt help with cc, stam drain constant stuns ensure that someone dies sooner or later. Killing Golem helps, since he has aditional LONG cc on his attack.
    ~4 This is more of a run it, taunt everything without paying attention, get hit for 300k crit and die type of deal, the pack of mobs right before ras nisi got me many times, dont underestimate them like i did many many times.
    ~4.1 Tomb dwarfs, sometimes they get triggered to attack by silly things like boon proc from heal, go as a team inside and when they aggro be fast to react.
    ~5 The beggining is odd, if you dps fast, i often have entire team lose comp due to bad timing with a ghost, if you dps VERY fast it doesnt happen, so i found it to not go 100% fast at the beggining to actually help out.
    Make sure to avoind is Paralyze attacks if you dont have immunities, and focusfire souls as a team, even weak teams can do so with good coordination. MICROPHONE IS THERE FOR A REASON :D .
    P.S Try to avoid armour shread, event the tankies of the tanky die if they have too many. They fall off if you dodge many times in a row.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    @leonidrex
    I was just breaking your balls, mate. We've all enjoyed some drunk posting.

    Yes, you pointed out a few ToNG Kteam dangers I missed.

    You are right about the dwarves.
    Those short <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> can definitely 1-hit a weaker toon.

    It's burning guidance that causes accidental damage I think, probably a few other boons.

    Best to pause a few seconds after that fight, wait for all HoTs to end.

    Also agree for your rec to use TeamSpeak, Discord or some other voice chat.
    Make sure it is hands-free though.
    Push to talk is distracting and can get you killed in the middle of a fight.
    But either of those too are better then typing or silence.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    UPDATE
    Grey Wolf week.
    A welcome relief after KTeam ToNG.
    Tact/Prot/Devo not needed at all here.
    Cautious standard party with solid tank of any kind will work.

    Tips:
    The biggest 1 hit threat are the Stormcallers (lightning shamans).
    Avoid their linear lightning columns.
    2 or 3 mob fights can be skipped by hugging the wall. Definitely want to do that.
    The rest is the same old GWD strat.
    Pull final boss close to where red wolf spawns, yada yada yada.

    Should be easy Omin IOUs this week.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Update
    Didn't bother commenting last week due to all-consuming Mod16 preview.

    Also it was easy-sauce anyway.

    This is another low-difficulty KTeam week. Easy IOUs.
    No need for Prot/Devo/Tact at all.

    Definitely want to run all your toons through it even if you don't care about the current KTeam gear...
    and here is why...
    Save up your IOUs on as many toons as you can. Do NOT spend them until Mod 16.

    All of this gear and the stats/mechanics are changing so drastically that some of that "Omin" gear, non-BiS now, might work very well on one of your Mod16 toons.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Update:
    Valindras Tower Week


    Lemon squeasy.
    Definitely run all your alts this week. Easy Omin IOUs.

    VT K-Team is rated 1T-FTW for a sturdy party.

    Go 2T (OP+GF) if you are bringing new players or low gear alts.

    Strategy:
    As long as tanks are running full defensive (Knight's Valor, Divine Protector, etc) and DC is carpeting fights with Astral Shield and Heals, you should have no deaths.

    1-Hit Zones:
    Just one.
    Valindra Fight "Circle" Phase.
    Those radiant red zones can one-hit a squishier player, especially if they've been cornered and drained by those spectre mobs.

    Keep to the outside of the circle, keep moving and try to stay close to tank and healer for extra protection/heals.

    Omin Gear Advice:
    Here is what Gallant/Hardcore gear stats are like on Mod16 Preview...
    image
    As you can see, it is far from highest stat or BiS, but is just as good or better then the campaign gear that drops.
    Good 70-80 Leveling gear to put on your alts.

    This is subject to change, ofc.
    I suggest saving your Omins until Mod16 drops.
    Read your class feedback forum for Mod16 Preview.
    Get a feel for what new stats you will need before buying Hardcore gear.

    Then when Mod16 drops, cash in those sweet IOUs and you will have the best leveling gear in the game.

    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 588Member Arc User
    My question now is K-team even going to be worth agonizing over come mod 16?

    My argument for this is that if k-team only gives currency for the AI armor that will be obsolete when compared to the easier acquired Undermountain gear. Why would you go down the route that is more difficult when the gear obtained is not as good as gear that is easier to obtain? Players usually fall towards the easier common denominator with the least amount of effort UNLESS they are unaware of these facts.

    If k-team awards are only for AI gear then it has essentially become not worth doing. However; I know there will be players out there who will run it for the challenge aspect alone and care nothing for obtaining any gear. The problem with this is finding the party members who want to put in the effort to be successful. As it currently sits there is a very small margin of players who have the skills to survive k-teams. Players simply don't care enough to be contentious enough to stay out of red or avoid over endangering themselves in attack range of multiple hard hitting mobs.

    From my experience running as AC DC it only takes one player who really doesn't care about success to bring the party continuously down into the failure realm. As the posts suggest, it seems having tanks in the party increase the chances of success per tank added. Damage is nearly irrelevant outside boss fights.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    My question now is K-team even going to be worth agonizing over come mod 16?

    My argument for this is that if k-team only gives currency for the AI armor that will be obsolete when compared to the easier acquired Undermountain gear. Why would you go down the route that is more difficult when the gear obtained is not as good as gear that is easier to obtain? Players usually fall towards the easier common denominator with the least amount of effort UNLESS they are unaware of these facts.

    If k-team awards are only for AI gear then it has essentially become not worth doing. However; I know there will be players out there who will run it for the challenge aspect alone and care nothing for obtaining any gear. The problem with this is finding the party members who want to put in the effort to be successful. As it currently sits there is a very small margin of players who have the skills to survive k-teams. Players simply don't care enough to be contentious enough to stay out of red or avoid over endangering themselves in attack range of multiple hard hitting mobs. .

    Worth agonizing over? No. I don't think it ever was worth agonizing over.
    The gear was never BiS and will be less so in Mod16.
    I never even needed the gear, to tell the truth. It's just a really great challenge.
    Admit it: there's not alot of fun, fresh challenges right now. KTeam is a nice change of pace.

    Mod16 has Challenge campaigns, Tales of Old and, of course, the entirety of Undermountain ahead.
    So you may be right. I suspect KTeam will become a "I am bored. What can I do now?" kind of activity after completing the Mod16 campaign. For now, I find it fun and rewarding.

    How aggressively people will pursue KTeam on anything other then eLoL week depends on how they boost the gear stats.
    Right now the Hardcore gear is better then Mod16 starting gear from early campaign rewards but far inferior to level 80 gear.

    That makes it useful at the start of Mod16, less useful as the campaign progresses and useless by the time you level all alts.

    So if you have more then one toon this gear can be quite useful... and it is free.
    If you've been saving up your Omins, you can completely bling out an alt in far better gear far earlier.
    That will make leveling in Undermountain much easier.

    "From my experience running as AC DC it only takes one player who really doesn't care about success to bring the party continuously down into the failure realm. As the posts suggest, it seems having tanks in the party increase the chances of success per tank added. Damage is nearly irrelevant outside boss fights"

    You are not wrong. One player who doesnt care will indeed ruin the KTeam run.

    But, as you say, very few people will run this unless they really want the Omin's or are really bored.
    I must clarify: I never suggested "fill your team with tanks". That would be very inefficient.
    The strat for the hardest KTeams (ToNG, mSP, FBI...) is 2-3 complimentary tanks (Prot, Tact, +/- Devo).
    Infact, many Kteams like VT only need 1 tank.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,427Member Arc User
    leonidrex said:

    imigh t be a little drunk rignt nwa bjut imma say thisma, partysompostiion s are as they always were, ( core partu of OP prot/deo + dc AC +GF + mofhe/bnfr/hr/sw/ mof/ + adcc dps same as t always have been same will be

    I actually understood this... and it worries me a little.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Posts: 895Member Arc User
    leonidrex said:


    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D

    Game never was intended to develop that way I think, it was just an unforeseen effect of a damage, buffing and debuffing system the devs did not really understand.

    With mod 16 most buffing and debuffing is gone, hard. So we are talking tank, heal, 3 dps.. with those dps possibly having some small buff/debuff. All dps should be more or less equal at same IL, and the dps difference between low IL and high IL should be way less.

    That boils down to any dps class being desirable for a dps slot, and IL differences mattering less. Lets see if the devs can pull it off without leaving too big differences between the classes.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Posts: 397Member Arc User

    leonidrex said:


    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D

    Game never was intended to develop that way I think, it was just an unforeseen effect of a damage, buffing and debuffing system the devs did not really understand.

    With mod 16 most buffing and debuffing is gone, hard. So we are talking tank, heal, 3 dps.. with those dps possibly having some small buff/debuff. All dps should be more or less equal at same IL, and the dps difference between low IL and high IL should be way less.

    That boils down to any dps class being desirable for a dps slot, and IL differences mattering less. Lets see if the devs can pull it off without leaving too big differences between the classes.
    developers understood how buffs work very well, its simple math that kids learn when they are 8-9 years old. its not rocket science my friend. if i can increase dmg of dps for over 100% its mathematically better to do that then do grab another dps. simple as that. let alone have buffs of each class stack multiplicatively... and the problem with mod 16 changes is.... its BORING. NV has fast paced fun combat, gone in mod 16. I suggest watching galactic YT podcasts about mod 16 and you will see bigger perspective on mod 16, from multiple VERY DIFFERENT people that are interested in the game for different reasons.

    Ah but the balance. I trully believe that it WILL be HAMSTER up, and I promise you, that people like me, if the set they will to it. They find stupid comps that work, be it 4dps + tank that can heal ( pally ). or simply dps that hits so hard that he aggros, or healer that heals himself so much hes preety much tanking ( heals generate aggro ) . we find a way to abuse stupid systems. and we will make stupid meta again.
  • krumple01krumple01 Posts: 588Member Arc User

    leonidrex said:


    most playerbase plays dps, in a game where most people ask for 80% supports and 20% dps :D

    Game never was intended to develop that way I think, it was just an unforeseen effect of a damage, buffing and debuffing system the devs did not really understand.

    With mod 16 most buffing and debuffing is gone, hard. So we are talking tank, heal, 3 dps.. with those dps possibly having some small buff/debuff. All dps should be more or less equal at same IL, and the dps difference between low IL and high IL should be way less.

    That boils down to any dps class being desirable for a dps slot, and IL differences mattering less. Lets see if the devs can pull it off without leaving too big differences between the classes.
    On preview I rounded up a party and we did CR without a tank. It was healing and dps. The experience was easier than on live. The thing is the new mechanic demands healing which is fine but it is also stressed to the point that if you have a good healer you will be fine taking damage. We steamrolled the sisters fight faster than ive ever seen done before. The second boss went down before second pillar. The boss fight against Strahd was finished before the entire mechanic played out.

    So unfortunately you don't need a tank if healing is on. You can actually over stress the mobs having extra dps available with a decent source of healing. The trash mobs were overwhelmed with the dps and not even a threat.

    After saying all this I bet 100% that this will be addressed. The problem is it will be a convoluted fix. Probably in the form of retarding healing by reducing it or increasing cool downs on big heals. I'm certain of it. But as it currently is you don't need a tank.

  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    KTeam composition ... back on topic... ;)
    Castle Never week!
    Holy HAMSTER! This is an awesome KTeam week!
    image
    The Tooks approve.

    PM your friends, dust off your alts. This is THE week to experience KTeam if you have not been running KTeam.

    KTeam CN week is challenging enough to keep on the edge of your seat yet easy enough that anyone can run it.

    This is, imho, KTeam at it's best and most balanced.
    If you've never un Kteam for fun before... grab your friends and do it now.

    One-Hit Spots:

    First Demon Encounter

    DPS? Don't go in alone.
    If an eager DPS runs up alone from the start you may be starting over.
    Remember KTeam rule #2: "Tanks First".

    Portal Room
    image
    KTeam Rule #2
    Why risk a wipe? Enter portals at least in pairs.

    Orcus
    Tanks stay togethe to avoid aggro fights/boss-spinning.

    KTeam Ranking:
    "2T"
    [Prot and Devo] or [Prot and Tactician].

    This week is perfect for KTeam.
    Doable with the right composition and everyone focused on mitigation.


    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Late KTeam Comp Update:
    (Sorry. Been living on preview this week.)

    SoT is a great and easy KTeam.
    KTeam rating:
    1T FTW
    Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

    Only one "One-Hit" dangerzone:
    Final boss.
    His initial attack coupled with the pounce attack of those drakes will end the run if connects with a squishy toon.

    Tank must engage first up the middle, other players circle to the outside at first to avoid the boss's and Drakes' opening AoE attack.

    Other than that, easy Omins.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • dread4moordread4moor Posts: 1,074Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Malabog Week
    image
    KTeam Score: 1T-FTW
    Pretty smooth if your tank is sturdy and maxes party protection (KV, Divine Protector, Oath of Prot, etc).

    One-Hit Spots:
    Malabog fight
    His lightning attack (in fact all lightning attacks in the dungeon) will one hit squishies every time.
    Blue Dragon Fight: "Red Line" Phase
    Pick a side of the arena: close to the door or close to the chests.
    Have the whole team stay far to that side. sometimes the lines do not appear there.
    Stay relatively close together so the GF/OP can protect you and the healers heal.

    Last KTeam week for me. My alts are Omin-filled.
    Next week I will be all-in (or, possibly all-OUT) for Mod 16.

    What to do with those Omins?
    Galant is not BiS gear. not worth putting on your main unless they have nothing better.
    But not bad for your weaker alts for leveling.

    Hold on to your Omins until Mod16 Launch.
    The stats are all changing, so wait to be sure what your alts need.
    Look over the re-stat gear in Mod 16.
    The Galant gear will be obsolete by lvl 80, but it is still better then the early Mod 16 campaign drops.
    Therefore it could be good 70-80 leveling gear for your weaker alts.

    Final Advice:
    Don't get frustrated when you wipe.
    Wipes happen. Dive right back in, tanks first, stay close and get it done.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
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