The 90% will be will 90% of the new players because any of the old players are done.
1
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Scaling as such is fine in principle...it's the implementation that is broken.
Two things need to happen.
First, we need to move from hard capping to include some sort of proportional scaling, so people see some benefit to improving their end-game gear, when rhey are downscaled.
Second, players should never get downscaled below their ability to queue up for content they could queue up before.
Totally UNSAT! Only thing I'll add to what my fellow players have sad is this - If you think scaling is in a good place and it will be so warmly received that you can proceed on through to gen up for mods 17, 18 and 19 after all this shared negative feedback...fuggetaboutit! As others have stated rightly, when endgame and mid players get wrecked by content they could once solo with ease they will take their time and money elsewhere. The NEW players you're trying to attract will eventual get to that point as well and realize why the old players left and also skip out. You'll be lucky if you make it to mod 17, let alone 18 and beyond.
I've not given a TON to this game money wise but over the last four years I've probably given about 1k. I try to regularly give money to support at each new mod. that's over. my support is hereby gone. I know I'm not a whale.. but that's where it is. the scaling issue is something I can't get over. if the game goes under the game goes under. sometimes the disease is terminal nothing to be done.
Why not scale the enchant according to the maximum of each module? Ex: MSP / FBI - enchant rank 12 ToNG - enchant rank 13 CoDG / CR - rank 14
Another example could be of the equipment, ToNG - maximum status that the primal equipment could get. CoDG - maximum status that exalted primal equipment was able to ... There are several sets of campaigns that would be the basis for the scale.
> @mdarkangel#4696 said: > Wouldn't work. As soon as a higher level character stepped into an area all the monsters become that character's level. Now the lower level character that's actually there trying to finish quests has no chance at killing the now outrageously overpowered monsters. > >
(I agree)
But this already happens. For example in Cloak Tower. When 3 people do daily leveling queue. I have loaded in as a level 12 and it takes longer to kill enemies. But it's only a level 12 dungeon and they carry me thru. And in etos, everything is equal.
Aside from this, the level 70 vs 80 argument is a way to distract us from the real problems. Since this is a false reality, a diversion and their reasoning or rationale holds no value:
Because no one will be level 70 for long, since forced leveling is a thing as soon as you invoke, or go somewhere, and anyone in your group, or nearby kills things. You have to not login to not level.
Besides scaling and other serious issues, this game quite obviously lacks a community manager.
Sorry to be so blunt, I usually try to be polite, but this is becoming harder and harder, because NOTHING is improving regarding a constructive communication between player base and developers, e.g. the primary function of a "true" community manager. Consider this as a wake-up call (not that I think it will actually accomplish anything)
Sadly, what we actually have (and this has been the case for some time) is a propaganda manager The "management" part is rather basic and a one-way street: - post new propaganda (usually named "feedback") - ignore feedback given and remain invisible during the entire lifetime of the "feedback" thread, until - post new propaganda
Scaling as such is fine in principle...it's the implementation that is broken.
Two things need to happen.
First, we need to move from hard capping to include some sort of proportional scaling, so people see some benefit to improving their end-game gear, when rhey are downscaled.
Second, players should never get downscaled below their ability to queue up for content they could queue up before.
I have to say I was really impressed that the community manager followed up and posted the answers to the forum. I also feel bad she didn't understand the reality of the situation.
That being said.... I can't help but imagining her reaching out to noworries for assistance. He responds "I got this, hold my beer".
Besides scaling and other serious issues, this game quite obviously lacks a community manager.
Sorry to be so blunt, I usually try to be polite, but this is becoming harder and harder, because NOTHING is improving regarding a constructive communication between player base and developers, e.g. the primary function of a "true" community manager. Consider this as a wake-up call (not that I think it will actually accomplish anything)
Sadly, what we actually have (and this has been the case for some time) is a propaganda manager The "management" part is rather basic and a one-way street: - post new propaganda (usually named "feedback") - ignore feedback given and remain invisible during the entire lifetime of the "feedback" thread, until - post new propaganda
To add to your post I submit the following:
April 16 we get this thread by the community manager, who is well aware of the feedback regarding scaling issues. April 17 we get a post by a developer that ignites the community on these forums. April 18 We get a 25% off sale on guess what!! Campaign completion Tokens!!
I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'. I'm smelling something fishy and it's not cat breath.
except due to the pooh changes in boons none of them are really worth it. lol. tiny tiny stats in the pool. honestly you could do no boons at all and probably be just as effective.
I'm adding my opinion that scaling is royally screwed up. I haven't spoken to one person in game that feels differently. Content should not get harder as your character improves, period.
Also, I'm still waiting for the promised patch notes for today.
Mod 16 looks like nothing other than an impending disaster at this point. It's a shame to couple one of the biggest content expansions with a train wreck of class changes. Even people building multi million dollar buildings can recognize when it's time to delay a schedule. It's a shame upper management at Cryptic can't.
What?! What is this?! What is this sh*t?! Downscale, what the hell? How is this fine?! You're gonna kill the game, just a heads up! I ain't gonna stick around to play this bulls**t. Feel free to perma ban my HAMSTER or whatever you do, i'm outta here.
An advise: ask to PWE why capping killed FW. Oh wait, that's what they want to do with NW? Be honest, and talk to Wizards of the Coast, that you no longer want/can work with NW and want to focus on Magic The Gathering, so that WotC can give the franchise to another company or studio that is more professional and really strives to make a quality product and not make it worse for the sake of greed.
0
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @kickiusassius#6340 said: > I have to say I was really impressed that the community manager followed up and posted the answers to the forum. I also feel bad she didn't understand the reality of the situation. > This comment gave me pause. I'm as frustrated as anyone else here. Flustered, in fact.
To be fair, Julia's post was a big risk. In boxing we call that "leading with your chin". She's a smart lady. She must have known what the response would be. And she certainly could have posted nothing at all.
So is that brave and brazen? I dunno.
But I'm not gonna berate her personally. Juilia's not making the decisions that we are disliking. Her delivery of that message had... room for improvement.
But it is not her message. She is following someone elses plans.
A terrible series of plans imho (scaling, enchant nerfs, etc), but corporate plans. Just want to be fair. I will aim my righteous indignation at the head, not the tail.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Funny. I'm not seeing the entry where they reopened the side areas in eCC, eToS, and eGWD that they wrongly blocked off in Mod 6 (and they exist to this day -- I can prove it with screenshots).
Devs, get over your damned pride already and remove the blockakges. The designer who blocked them off in Mod 6 was wrong. HE WAS DEAD WRONG AND HE HAD ZERO UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ADVENTURING MEANS.
Don't ignore it and don't equivocate. Just do it.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
And there we go, going live with what the devs think is good scaling.
To reiterate.
1) There are hard caps on the effectiveness of all stats but HP, Power and Critical Severity. (Oh and the Utility Stats.)
2) This means of all the stats the only ones that actually need to be scaled are HP, Power, and Critical Severity.
3) The only other thing that needs to be scaled is Weapon Damage.
But the devs think that scaling you from 72k Armor Pen (above cap for level 80) to 48k Armor Pen (9k below cap for level 70) is ok, along with similarly severe adjustments to all other stats. The devs seem to think their own stat system doesn’t work, because relative difficulty is set by the stat caps inherent in the mechanics (except the noted ones above) and the mechanics of the fights.
So they have invested vast amounts of time and effort into a system that punishes progress instead of rewarding it.
When we tell them this, they tell us we don’t understand.
I guess they will understand by Wednesday.
Good luck Julia, you’re going to need it.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Sometimes I wonder if some suit is telling the devs, "give in to them and you're fired." The obstinateness is astonishing. Indeed, I guess they'll learn the hard way like they did four years ago.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
I'd like to add my opinion that scaling is broken. Imagine a level 70 character with stats right at or above the required caps. Then the player levels to 80, keeping all the same gear. Now, when down-scaled, the stats are lower than before (e.g. ArPen)! The player will deal less damage even though he is level 80 and should be much stronger. Does this sound right? Where is the progression? This is REgression if you ask me.
I agree with the others, that there is only one right way to implement scaling: proportionally.
The first is that current live players have been at endgame for years at level 70. Those players are far above what a fresh 70 would be as they are leveling up.
Does that mean, in other words, that we should always and forever feel like fresh level 70 in those areas? Because of the hard-capped scaling, it won't matter how long we've been level 80 or if we have the best gear available? Are you serious?
In conclusion, this means that we can only progress in level 80 content. Which is currently only one dungeon (LotMM). For all the rest, there is no progression due to hard-capped scaling. Sad... just sad.
this whole system they set up is fully against the guilds, because you cant run the zones where you can get the curency for your guild to donate. They took away the chests with guild voucers from the lockboxes and now this. But i wonder how they will motivate ppl to spend money on this. when you do not see any improvement in leveling your char or upgrading things.
Schließe dich meiner Gilde Valindras Fear an Gildenhalle 20 Marktplatz 9 Stall 9 Kasserne 9, Entdeckergilde 9 Join my guild Valindras Fear GH20 Marketplace 9 Stable 9 Barracs 9 Explorer Guild 9
this is the only game ive played in a long time where scaling means nerfing the player. how much more sense would it make if the enemies scaled to your level, not your item level. then everywhere you go youll have the same difficulty and there is still a benefit to building your character up threw item level so that even though your the same level most of the enemies your item level lets you overpower them. its a simple concept but for some reason its lost when games are developed in a bubble.
You don't play many MMOs? Here's a chart topper for you that does exactly what you claim doesn't happen: GW 2.
I play lots of games, I don't prefer mmos, but I do like arpg. but what im basically saying is there is more then one way to create scaling in a game, like destiny 2 most enemy's in an open zone are based on your level, even if your grouped with higher or lower leveled people everything is scaled to your personal level in free play. that's why when the game launched people would stay in the first free play area till they hit max level, usually after about 8 hrs.
but what most people want is the way borderlands scales in that its all based on having a dozen or so zones based on different levels so that when you go back and play in a zone you became to powerful for any enemy you fight dies, often more violently.
the scaling that I come across more in games now like in assassins creed odyssey, ghost recon wildlands, is there are enemy's scaled to zones levels but once you level higher then the zone the enemies level with you. which is story driven scaling.
I agree, I've seen it done in various ways too. Even in swtor, the scaling is done the way it is here. Ironically, Odyssey's forum has a thread complaining about their scaling method that's every bit as much "DOOM" as the threads covering the scaling coming here are. My experience with "DOOM" threads goes back a long way though. I've seen "No updates are going to be the death of this game" followed within 6 months by "this update is going to be the death of this game", for the same game. They may have effectively killed it this time, but it took them 11 years. Every update, however, was the "last nail in the coffin".
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
As we move from the level 80 areas to level 70 areas (Chult/barovia/SoMI) our stats are being downscaled by circa 30%. This is pretty much a consistent and across the board downscale for our stats.
Unless I'm missing something, mobs aren't seeing this level of downscaling, and it's not a blanket change to all the stats. It's 10000 to 7000 and then 60000 to 57000 between the low and high stats respectively (30% for the low and 5% for the high).
Why is the scaling of players different? Surely there should be differentiation between how player stats are scaled, disregarding how we're capped
Why would any player who has done the grind or paid the cash to master content want to be reduced to that of a new player for any content? I may not have been around as long as many others, but I paid my dues being destroyed on the bridge at CN, did my grind in edemo, restored the HAMSTERing SoMI weapons, etc. I EXPECT old content to be easy. I will not run scaled content, especially if the rewards are content appropriate. Now, if I can pull rewards from etos or shores that are good for an endgame character, I may reconsider.
Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Since my last post I have been forced to reconsider by a more knowledgeable (and numbers focused) player than I.
@nitocris83 you urgently need a blog post about scaling. This blog post needs to explicitly state what equipment is capped during scaling and what things are not capped. I believe this information being better, and more widely, understood will alleviate a number of points of contention in the community.
For those who are playing at home, go to Well of Dragons and take advantage of the fact that the Collections are scaled as well...maybe adjust your Boons...
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
For those who are playing at home, go to Well of Dragons and take advantage of the fact that the Collections are scaled as well...maybe adjust your Boons...
You lost me. I'm not sure what you are referring to.
Comments
Two things need to happen.
First, we need to move from hard capping to include some sort of proportional scaling, so people see some benefit to improving their end-game gear, when rhey are downscaled.
Second, players should never get downscaled below their ability to queue up for content they could queue up before.
That's all.
House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator
Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
Why not scale the enchant according to the maximum of each module?
Ex: MSP / FBI - enchant rank 12
ToNG - enchant rank 13
CoDG / CR - rank 14
Another example could be of the equipment, ToNG - maximum status that the primal equipment could get. CoDG - maximum status that exalted primal equipment was able to ... There are several sets of campaigns that would be the basis for the scale.
> Wouldn't work. As soon as a higher level character stepped into an area all the monsters become that character's level. Now the lower level character that's actually there trying to finish quests has no chance at killing the now outrageously overpowered monsters.
>
>
(I agree)
But this already happens. For example in Cloak Tower. When 3 people do daily leveling queue. I have loaded in as a level 12 and it takes longer to kill enemies. But it's only a level 12 dungeon and they carry me thru. And in etos, everything is equal.
Aside from this, the level 70 vs 80 argument is a way to distract us from the real problems. Since this is a false reality, a diversion and their reasoning or rationale holds no value:
Because no one will be level 70 for long, since forced leveling is a thing as soon as you invoke, or go somewhere, and anyone in your group, or nearby kills things. You have to not login to not level.
Sorry to be so blunt, I usually try to be polite, but this is becoming harder and harder, because NOTHING is improving regarding a constructive communication between player base and developers, e.g. the primary function of a "true" community manager.
Consider this as a wake-up call (not that I think it will actually accomplish anything)
Sadly, what we actually have (and this has been the case for some time) is a propaganda manager
The "management" part is rather basic and a one-way street:
- post new propaganda (usually named "feedback")
- ignore feedback given and remain invisible during the entire lifetime of the "feedback" thread, until
- post new propaganda
Sorry.
^^^^THIS, THIS^^^^ right here.
That being said.... I can't help but imagining her reaching out to noworries for assistance.
He responds "I got this, hold my beer".
Also, I'm still waiting for the promised patch notes for today.
Mod 16 looks like nothing other than an impending disaster at this point. It's a shame to couple one of the biggest content expansions with a train wreck of class changes. Even people building multi million dollar buildings can recognize when it's time to delay a schedule. It's a shame upper management at Cryptic can't.
What is this?!
What is this sh*t?!
Downscale, what the hell?
How is this fine?!
You're gonna kill the game, just a heads up! I ain't gonna stick around to play this bulls**t.
Feel free to perma ban my HAMSTER or whatever you do, i'm outta here.
An advise: ask to PWE why capping killed FW. Oh wait, that's what they want to do with NW? Be honest, and talk to Wizards of the Coast, that you no longer want/can work with NW and want to focus on Magic The Gathering, so that WotC can give the franchise to another company or studio that is more professional and really strives to make a quality product and not make it worse for the sake of greed.
> I have to say I was really impressed that the community manager followed up and posted the answers to the forum. I also feel bad she didn't understand the reality of the situation.
>
This comment gave me pause.
I'm as frustrated as anyone else here. Flustered, in fact.
To be fair, Julia's post was a big risk.
In boxing we call that "leading with your chin".
She's a smart lady. She must have known what the response would be.
And she certainly could have posted nothing at all.
So is that brave and brazen? I dunno.
But I'm not gonna berate her personally.
Juilia's not making the decisions that we are disliking.
Her delivery of that message had... room for improvement.
But it is not her message.
She is following someone elses plans.
A terrible series of plans imho (scaling, enchant nerfs, etc), but corporate plans.
Just want to be fair.
I will aim my righteous indignation at the head, not the tail.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Devs, get over your damned pride already and remove the blockakges. The designer who blocked them off in Mod 6 was wrong. HE WAS DEAD WRONG AND HE HAD ZERO UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ADVENTURING MEANS.
Don't ignore it and don't equivocate. Just do it.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
To reiterate.
1) There are hard caps on the effectiveness of all stats but HP, Power and Critical Severity. (Oh and the Utility Stats.)
2) This means of all the stats the only ones that actually need to be scaled are HP, Power, and Critical Severity.
3) The only other thing that needs to be scaled is Weapon Damage.
But the devs think that scaling you from 72k Armor Pen (above cap for level 80) to 48k Armor Pen (9k below cap for level 70) is ok, along with similarly severe adjustments to all other stats. The devs seem to think their own stat system doesn’t work, because relative difficulty is set by the stat caps inherent in the mechanics (except the noted ones above) and the mechanics of the fights.
So they have invested vast amounts of time and effort into a system that punishes progress instead of rewarding it.
When we tell them this, they tell us we don’t understand.
I guess they will understand by Wednesday.
Good luck Julia, you’re going to need it.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Imagine a level 70 character with stats right at or above the required caps. Then the player levels to 80, keeping all the same gear. Now, when down-scaled, the stats are lower than before (e.g. ArPen)! The player will deal less damage even though he is level 80 and should be much stronger. Does this sound right? Where is the progression? This is REgression if you ask me.
I agree with the others, that there is only one right way to implement scaling: proportionally. Does that mean, in other words, that we should always and forever feel like fresh level 70 in those areas? Because of the hard-capped scaling, it won't matter how long we've been level 80 or if we have the best gear available? Are you serious?
In conclusion, this means that we can only progress in level 80 content. Which is currently only one dungeon (LotMM). For all the rest, there is no progression due to hard-capped scaling. Sad... just sad.
Join my guild Valindras Fear GH20 Marketplace 9 Stable 9 Barracs 9 Explorer Guild 9
Unless I'm missing something, mobs aren't seeing this level of downscaling, and it's not a blanket change to all the stats. It's 10000 to 7000 and then 60000 to 57000 between the low and high stats respectively (30% for the low and 5% for the high).
Why is the scaling of players different? Surely there should be differentiation between how player stats are scaled, disregarding how we're capped
Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Magnus - Fighter - 3rd main to be a tank - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
@nitocris83 you urgently need a blog post about scaling. This blog post needs to explicitly state what equipment is capped during scaling and what things are not capped. I believe this information being better, and more widely, understood will alleviate a number of points of contention in the community.
For those who are playing at home, go to Well of Dragons and take advantage of the fact that the Collections are scaled as well...maybe adjust your Boons...
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.