Driftwood Tavern Questions Follow-up - April 16

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  • hustin1
    hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,322 Arc User
    edited April 2019



    adinosii said:

    I am not going to repeat what I have said before, but I will make a set of predictions.



    1) What we now have on Preview will go live.



    2) There will be a massive outcry, in particular from those not active on the forums.



    3) Player number and Zen sales will drop and new players will not compensate.



    4) In June we will get a fix, but the number of active players will have dropped by 25%.


    to point four.. or more.

    If Mod 6 is any indication, it won't be in June. They'll wait until player numbers have drastically plummeted before issuing any kind of mea culpa. Don't expect to see that until December at the earliest.

    The way this is looking, I'm going to need a synonym for "Hubris" to name this mod. Mod 6 already claimed that one.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • robertthebard
    robertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:


    Thanks for going into detail, but I'm still struggling with "salt" or "really that bad", especially reading some of the justifications for "really that bad". I do know that, scaled to 12, they may as well have not bothered with scaling, because I still went through it solo on a Trickster Rogue that's probably no where near optimized even for at level content, with no issues at all, and I haven't played in years, literally.

    You can just hop on preview and check and form your opinion on your experience, which then can be debated. I'm not sure what is the point of asking for more of the same opinions there are already here, you will not differentiate between whatever you perceive as just whining and a real issue by reading more of the same.


    Regardless, the main issue is not that there is scaling, scaling with its evils has some benefits. The issue is that this so called 'scaling' doesn't scale players relative to each other, but instead a simple cap. Hence a a player who played for about half year and has only a bit above the free catch-up gear will be almost exactly the same as someone who is BiS and plays for 6 years.

    A proper scaling will scale players down, but maintaining some relative ratio between players where a bis player will be lowered, but still better than someone who just got their free gear and upgraded the enchants one rank up.

    Cap != Progress. Simple as that.

    What is the point of upgrading anything, if it's all canceled.
    Except that I can't. I quit a bit over 5 years ago because I felt like the game was way too easy to keep me interested, and moved on, instead of coming to the forums and ranting for 5 years. I tend to do that. I could, I guess, move my 63 over and get busy, but frankly if I'm going to put that much time, or investment into that character, I'd rather have it be on live, where I'll reap any benefits I do get.

    Cap == Progress. In the level appropriate zones, there is no scaling, as I understood the post from the dev post. So anything done at 80, in Undermountain, is with whatever's left of the full benefits of the gear players have, and point distribution, etc. So all of this excitement isn't that players won't be able to do the content at level, but that max level players won't be able to just blow through it like it's not there.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • mike31584
    mike31584 Member Posts: 13 Arc User

    mike31584 said:

    this is the only game ive played in a long time where scaling means nerfing the player. how much more sense would it make if the enemies scaled to your level, not your item level. then everywhere you go youll have the same difficulty and there is still a benefit to building your character up threw item level so that even though your the same level most of the enemies your item level lets you overpower them. its a simple concept but for some reason its lost when games are developed in a bubble.

    You don't play many MMOs? Here's a chart topper for you that does exactly what you claim doesn't happen: GW 2.
    I play lots of games, I don't prefer mmos, but I do like arpg. but what im basically saying is there is more then one way to create scaling in a game, like destiny 2 most enemy's in an open zone are based on your level, even if your grouped with higher or lower leveled people everything is scaled to your personal level in free play. that's why when the game launched people would stay in the first free play area till they hit max level, usually after about 8 hrs.

    but what most people want is the way borderlands scales in that its all based on having a dozen or so zones based on different levels so that when you go back and play in a zone you became to powerful for any enemy you fight dies, often more violently.

    the scaling that I come across more in games now like in assassins creed odyssey, ghost recon wildlands, is there are enemy's scaled to zones levels but once you level higher then the zone the enemies level with you. which is story driven scaling.

  • delta2119
    delta2119 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    I don't think the scaled part of the game being "too easy" or "too difficult" is the problem (that's relative, it's always for some), just has to be fairly consistent, and isn't, whatever math is used needs a rework.
    Post edited by delta2119 on
  • lordseth1985
    lordseth1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 312 Arc User


    Picture this....
    You go play a round of golf with your top of the line clubs and balls. Not the most challenging course, but a course you've mastered and is still fun. As you walk up to the 1st tee box, the caddie says "dude... your gear is too good, I need you to use this fisher price set or wear a blind fold to play."

    It's sad cuz it's true... that's the feling about mod 16 and scalling.
    Seth QuickHands - Rogue, natural born assassin.
  • silvertail
    silvertail Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 97 Arc User
    @noworries#8859 So what are you working towards now in the game? Since as you get to end game you want to lvl enchantments, rank up companions, work towards getting better mounts, and most importantly work to get better gear and weapons. So as you work to do all of that it makes you scale lower or the same as to the IL you had before you got that whats the point of working towards it? What becomes the point of the game then?

    It's starting to look like your hoping to kill Neverwinter since you might be close to the launch of your other game. Hoping that players will switch over. Sorry but I don't see that happening for me anyways since if you do that to one game you will do it to another.

    This makes me sad since I have been on Neverwinter since almost the start of it. Stayed with it because of the combat and gameplay that i enjoyed. I enjoyed working to make my char stronger and stronger while helping others when I could. Now I'm not sure what the point of playing the game is since the only place you don't get scaled is undermountain.

    This has the same feeling as give every kid a trophy even if they don't put any work into getting it.
    stealth is survival skills (and not tanking skills, that is really different)
    stealth is damage
    stealth is mobility
    stealth is everything
    everything is stealth
    Stealth make TR OP, but lack of stealth make TR useless.
  • thebrownsage84
    thebrownsage84 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    "is in an overall pretty good place."

    Yeah right.

    "... we receive more specific feedback."

    The community is already telling you the "specifics" but you ignore.
  • judaspriest35#6641
    judaspriest35#6641 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    just remove the dumb scaling, please !!! the game you have is really fun so don't kill it.

  • seridkalsenov
    seridkalsenov Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    alright my patience is at my limit.
    where can i find down vote on this threads ??? oh yes there is no down vote :p

    now if u guys (all devs of cryptic) think downscaling is good so what's the point i been grinding, spent billion ADs, grinding gear, getting Masterwork gear, getting runestones to R13 (many players reached 14) spending over 3 years playing this game and me and other veteran player got this ????

    are u guys want to remove all the veteran player and let the new player learn by their own ????
    is this about New player ??? u know that veteran player also helping u getting new player ?????

    now my special question have u actually know about this game ??? 3 years i been getting worst part of the game M6 exodus Storm king thunder the most grinding campaign.
    do u think we 15k-19k+ geared veteran player carrying a team is bad ??
    now what if 10 new fresh player did codg didnt know the mechanic. are they able to finish the dungeon by their own ????

    Im talking about veteran player need a love. stop keep talking about new player, u lose ur veteran player Good Luck maintaining the game with nobody have the knowledge of the game,
  • benyr
    benyr Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    Ok, so i'm really not a fan of scaling in the first place, when I learnt to drive a car in order to pass a driving test it was on the understanding the more time I spent behind a wheel the better driver i would become. I really wouldn't expect the the difficulty of the driving test and and the road conditions to get harder in line with my own progress to ensure i could never become a safe driver. This is the same principle, if forced into lower end content I've earn't the right to be able to cruise through it easily, as i have progressed well beyond the level of challenge those zones should offer.

    But on top of the fact I don't like scaling, I'm being treated to comments like scaling is in a good place. It isn't every single player who has been on preview can and has on this forum given you very specific feedback about just how badly broken scaling currently is. Then we get comments from @noworries#8859 telling us scaling isn't broken and all level 70 zones will scale to varying levels of difficulty as Barovia will scale enchants to level 9 other lower. Level 9 really!! So a developer for this game firstly doesn't understand that level 9 enchants are stupidly easy to get, so why pick such a low level for what is currently the hardest level 70 content. Secondly doesn't appear to realise that any new level 70 can go to Barovia pick up those level 9 enchants and then go back to older content thus rendering the difference between a brand new level 70 and a BIS level 80 in any level 70 content immaterial.

    I could never bring myself to believe the Devs didn't really play the game before, but with these comments from @noworries#8859 i now can't believe they have ever spent any real time in the game, as it would not be possible to be so wrong on a subject if they had. I was upset with the changes before, the arrogance and ignorance of these replies have infuriated me.

    Sadly for me my mind is already made up, after years in the game and £000's spent leveling up 8 toons to all be able to complete any content, i've already made up my mind to walk away, aside from maybe key collecting on the off chance the game improves. Its only been 2 weeks since i stopped logging in so far, but i have no plans to return when Mod 16 actually drops. For those of you that choose to stay, firstly good luck - but can i also suggest you all boycott the game for say 1 month just to get the message across that both the current level of communication and the belief they can just ride roughshod over player opinion isn't acceptable. Best of luck to you all, I hope things improve quickly.
  • momof31978#2332
    momof31978#2332 Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    I honestly don't see how you think the scaling will be a good thing. It feels like you don't care about keeping your veteran players. I LOVE this game, but the game I love is gone. I see some hope, but unless the scaling is REALLY FIXED (as in ELIMINATED) then I don't see any hope for the game. Who would support a game that doesn't take care of it's veteran players. Your new players will quit once they reach lvl 80 because the game will be done for them once they reach it. This is going to make it so much harder to rank up a guild as well. I am coming to you respectfully. Please please take away the scaling.
  • chinesegrow
    chinesegrow Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Made my first character in april 6th 2015 i play on xbox. I enjoy this game in its current state and every previous one. Have never had much bad to say about the game or the devs regardless of all the underhanded things ive witnessed you do to the community. Havent witnessed scaling first hand as im on console but ive seen many changes made to this game in the name of "not trivializing content" your words not mine. But it seems this is nothing more than trivializing the entirety of the game. I will be witnessing level 80 im not gonna say im going to love it. This is the first time ive seen everyone on here agree on anything. Thats significant to me. Im not gonna bad mouth anyone or this game but when it comes down to it i will let my wallet do my speaking. Will not support a game that i dont enjoy.
  • chiatzou
    chiatzou Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    Is it my understanding that to essentially combat this we would have to have a set of rank 70 gear for old content and for new content have a set of rank 80 gear? If so that s just dumb. The whole point of this game is the interaction with others. As an endgame player if I cant help a new player get their first completion in a dungeon because they are actually stronger than I am the game js essentially done. As a community we have come together to tell you why this is a mistake. MMO's have always been built on the community aspect. Not being able to help new players kills the new playerbase you are trying to create.
  • bettargh
    bettargh Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 26 Arc User
    worthless, clueless developers
    Azral [email protected] Guardian FIghter Level 70
    Norbir [email protected] Paladin Level 70
  • lardeson
    lardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User

    hoo boy.

    i very rarely come on the forums. most of the time i don't even think about it. there's too many salty people here

    imma salt and eat you
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • lardeson
    lardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User

    micky1p00 said:


    Thanks for going into detail, but I'm still struggling with "salt" or "really that bad", especially reading some of the justifications for "really that bad". I do know that, scaled to 12, they may as well have not bothered with scaling, because I still went through it solo on a Trickster Rogue that's probably no where near optimized even for at level content, with no issues at all, and I haven't played in years, literally.

    You can just hop on preview and check and form your opinion on your experience, which then can be debated. I'm not sure what is the point of asking for more of the same opinions there are already here, you will not differentiate between whatever you perceive as just whining and a real issue by reading more of the same.


    Regardless, the main issue is not that there is scaling, scaling with its evils has some benefits. The issue is that this so called 'scaling' doesn't scale players relative to each other, but instead a simple cap. Hence a a player who played for about half year and has only a bit above the free catch-up gear will be almost exactly the same as someone who is BiS and plays for 6 years.

    A proper scaling will scale players down, but maintaining some relative ratio between players where a bis player will be lowered, but still better than someone who just got their free gear and upgraded the enchants one rank up.

    Cap != Progress. Simple as that.

    What is the point of upgrading anything, if it's all canceled.
    Except that I can't. I quit a bit over 5 years ago because I felt like the game was way too easy to keep me interested, and moved on, instead of coming to the forums and ranting for 5 years. I tend to do that. I could, I guess, move my 63 over and get busy, but frankly if I'm going to put that much time, or investment into that character, I'd rather have it be on live, where I'll reap any benefits I do get.

    Cap == Progress. In the level appropriate zones, there is no scaling, as I understood the post from the dev post. So anything done at 80, in Undermountain, is with whatever's left of the full benefits of the gear players have, and point distribution, etc. So all of this excitement isn't that players won't be able to do the content at level, but that max level players won't be able to just blow through it like it's not there.
    which gw2 are you playing? zonal scaling with cap in gw2? what am i missing? cap= progress? what???? so lets say you work at the kitchen and there's this food that everyone struggles with, which you too struggled with for ages, but its now easy peasy for you cos u've invested time into practising and finding ways to make the recipe easier: After a few upgrades to the menu, you are forced to go back to that same dish, But now for some rediculous reason, your knowlegde is limited and can no longer do the same dish as easy as it used to be. Where is the progress in this? please define me progress, im waiting. If im having to struggle with a zone is struggled with but after hard work, i managed to overcome the struggle, then there's a massive issue.

    Lemme put another easy example for you to understand in the form of incentives, imagine being paid 10 bucks to do a normal job, and as time passes, u get better and better at the job. the job gets more complex as time goes, but u still adapt and better it. how would u feel if at that point u are still being paid 10 bucks? definitely not happy, i can 1000% assure u that.
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    hustin1 said:



    adinosii said:

    I am not going to repeat what I have said before, but I will make a set of predictions.



    1) What we now have on Preview will go live.



    2) There will be a massive outcry, in particular from those not active on the forums.



    3) Player number and Zen sales will drop and new players will not compensate.



    4) In June we will get a fix, but the number of active players will have dropped by 25%.


    to point four.. or more.

    If Mod 6 is any indication, it won't be in June. They'll wait until player numbers have drastically plummeted before issuing any kind of mea culpa. Don't expect to see that until December at the earliest.

    The way this is looking, I'm going to need a synonym for "Hubris" to name this mod. Mod 6 already claimed that one.
    Hubrismountainpartdeux?
  • motu999#9953
    motu999#9953 Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited April 2019


    While we understand some players have concerns over scaling, we believe it is in an overall pretty good place.

    I wonder if it is even possible to become more delusional. But I guess yes.
    Or maybe I have just been teleported in some alternative reality.
    Sorry, cannot take this seriously.
    Good luck to Cryptic to find your way back to reality.
    Chances are not good. You are not even trying.


  • brendaxnl#4453
    brendaxnl#4453 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    Ur right JULIA,,... 90% of the playerbase is happy.... LOL.... This downscaling is so dumb i cannot even believe it.... RIP neverwinter!