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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • tharealcuber#2975 tharealcuber Posts: 28Member Arc User
    rafaelda said:

    I normally play on console (xbox one) and decided to install the game on my laptop last weekend to give it a go. Recently started 2 new characters on console and overall the new character (Fighter) on mod 16 preview was overall harder to play through the content. Not sure yet if it is too hard since I didn't get very far into the content (level 21), but you do notice you have to use your abilities more instead of just hack and slash your way through it. So more thought into how you play is a good thing.

    Worst about new characters is probably not even noticing your new powers upon level up, since there are no choices, they are just added. Maybe it gets a bit better with the Paragon path at level 30 but I doubt it will be very much better based on what I've read so far.

    From what I've read scaling will be a thing, and I hope that at least we feel (at end game characters) a bit more powerful than zone level characters.

    This is the reason i think we should have the option to get that LV70 characther form zen store for free on preview.
    For people that play on console, to not have to level the full game to test end game stuff, and for those wo want to not use theyr stuff boons for exmaple and try a "fresh view" on Lv70 and UP

    this would also allow us to test and see new classes that we dont usually play on live server to understand other players views and help on balance comments.


    Please for next mod please add on preview server,
    Lv70 charaters item buy (cant remember the name) and the extra slots for toons item, so we can test better and help more.
    Correct. It takes too much time to level up a new character, so no quick tests. Since I haven't played live on PC there are no characters to import.

    So either add free leveling options to quickly test what we want to test, or add preview to consoles.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,819Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    especially considering they had months of closed testing before

    Uhm... there was A LOT of things that were fixed or tweaked, based on feedback from the closed testing in February. I think the situation would be even worse without that.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,823Member Arc User
    And lots of things that have been fixed or tweaked since.

    It will be interesting to see what is fixed again on Friday.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • jules#6770 jules Posts: 45Member Arc User
    adinosii said:

    especially considering they had months of closed testing before

    Uhm... there was A LOT of things that were fixed or tweaked, based on feedback from the closed testing in February. I think the situation would be even worse without that.
    That might be, but there were also statements that testers weren't really heard back then, too. (Or were heard, but only long after, when things were already changed again)
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,819Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 17

    That might be, but there were also statements that testers weren't really heard back then, too. (Or were heard, but only long after, when things were already changed again)

    Uhm...I was in the closed playtest, so I kind-of know what was reported and what got fixed. Having said that, though, there were issues that were reported and certain concerns that were stated quite clearly. Some of those just were not up for discussion, as certain design decision had already been made.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Posts: 1,138Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    micky1p00 said:

    The simple solution is to allow copy from console live, to PC preview.

    Keeping Preview servers for consoles is understandably an issue, especially with certifications and what not, but Cryptic Database structure should be the same, or similar enough to be able to export from one (consoles) and import to PC preview and convert whatever differences there are.

    No matter what, it's a low risk procedure as the result goes to a preview server and not live. We also know that they are capable to rollback chars to a date, so they have the capability to get the entire char information as a whole. Export/encode into any wildly used format, transmit to some simple HTTP API that can be made just for that and push it to preview.
    We know they had external API to their database / game servers (gateway) so the code is there, capability, and they already did much moroe complex things. It is not insurmountable.

    I honestly think they should do away with preview and do their job properly. The stuff that was broken on release of preview was unbelievable, especially considering they had months of closed testing before. They was zero to minimal testing done by the devs before release and add to that the things people have complained about the most still remain broken. They should finish a first build of the MOD then deploy to a select group under NDA and work with them to get the module finished and they should then release it to live or at worst release for a week or two on preview to fine tune. Preview is just a lazy way for the devs to cut corners and get us to do their job for them.....for free!
    You need what is essentially open beta to catch some of the crash bugs. MMOs are more complicated than some other forms of software and getting a volume of people using it really helps.

    The problem with this mod is that so many people who would normally be on preview found it so completely unplayable (or they realised they weren't going to play after it went live) they gave up testing so I expect a complete mess.
  • croixxcroixx Posts: 24Member Arc User
    I was playing on preview and live quite a bit weeks ago. However, after witnessing patches to preview that brought the game in the opposite direction of player feedback I had to take a step back. Atm, I would rather wait and watch to see what happens at this point than invest my time & money.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,133Member Arc User
    edited April 17
    @zerappus
    there is no need to argue with any sense of logic actually.
    You can pick any class and ask why this power is lower than a mass aoe daily etc.
    Pick warlock, the best aoe daily is Accursed souls dealing damage in a huge aoe, popping a puppet and applying Lesser Curse.
    Now look at the next daily Flames of Phlegethos, a singel target daily dealing 20% aoe in small aoe with an absurd casting time and animation, doing nothing on top, nearly same magnitude as the best single target encounter the class got -> Killing Flame (400-600), wich can pop a Puppet on top.
    Starting to post stuff like this it leeds to Accursed souls being nerfed down to the same magnitude 750 (once 800), now you got two low performing dailies.
    If I write in warlock forum , why Accursed souls deals 750 in a high aoe and the best singel target daily deals 1150 (Brood), wich is only slightly better, guess what will happen next? Brood of Hadar will stay 1150 and Acccursed Souls will be downgraded same as FoP to 500 magnitude , being from no use any more. So take care what you write here, the rebound might be unlogic and more like a shot in the knee
    ->logic is from no use, no one worries about it (a little pun) :)
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,376Member Arc User
    As far as it goes we pretty much know what's coming now.

    My two biggest concerns right now, before the whole thing goes live properly and we get to see what a fully populated L80 world looks like, are Companions and Mounts. (I've given up all hope of the Rogue being given any sort of proper coverage, so that one can stay side lined, where he's been since M15 landed)

    I've not done anything since the last patch last week, but up to that point (last week), normal Companions looked like the "Lump Hammer of Balance" had been swung on them and the damage they were doing was at a point where Augments generally look a better option in most cases. Hopefully someone at Cryptic will one day realise that if something is generally over powered, you don't HAVE to balance it by making it the negative equivalent of what it was...
    ("Oh... that Encounter Power is 20% above where it should be... we'll BALANCE it by making it 20% below where it should be... that should work." seems to be the normal approach to "Balance".)

    And since the 500:1 stat to chance ratio switched to 1000:1, Epic and Legendary Mounts have been really weakened. The value of a Legendary Mount is really reduced. In fact many Blue Companions offer as much statistical value to a player as a Legendary mount.
    Legendary Mounts really need a Buff.
    In fact ALL Mount bonuses that provide Stat bonus points need buffing.
    The Devs were happy for them to provide twice what they are providing now prior to the change. Is it too much to ask that at least half of that missing bonus be restored?

    Those Legendary Mounts need more than the high speed rate to remain the most desired items in the game.
    Unless of course halving Legendary and Epic's effectiveness is to allow the introduction of Mythic mounts to come in at the same effective power level as the old Legendaries. Which, if it were to happen, would probably be the point at which I stopped buying lockbox keys.

    If any of this was sorted last patch, my apologies.
  • rafaeldarafaelda Posts: 594Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    adinosii said:

    That might be, but there were also statements that testers weren't really heard back then, too. (Or were heard, but only long after, when things were already changed again)

    Uhm...I was in the closed playtest, so I kind-of know what was reported and what got fixed. Having said that, though, there were issues that were reported and certain concerns that were stated quite clearly. Some of those just were not up for discussion, as certain design decision had already been made.
    Personal opinion about the approuch on "open" test server.

    I believe that the dev's should express all the desing decisions that are "set to stone" and the other that arent, also the "main target" for the changes (in both cases) this would help us to help them much better.

    Also once informed about the changes that cant be removed/reworked they should "kindly ask" that any comment about removing those mechanic to be placed elsewhere to keep the feedback forum more clean and objective...


    Why that ?
    I think a bit more direction would be nice before testing, this info usully comes only a week or 2 before release in Blogs about changes, maybe is a "marketing tactic" to show a new product you rely on "surprise effect" but that don't happen anyway because everthing on preview will be spread on live server by test players, and usually as a lot of complain, so no real surprise there...

    I know that this kind of direct approach will be taxed as authoritarian by some (or maybe a lot) of players, but is better than have that people think they comment got ignored, some people cant read the "between lines" approach and think "the devs are doing the direct opposite of the feedback recieved" when infact theyr hopes are in the opposite direction from the changes main objective and those are alredy set...

    I believe is better to know that someone disagree, than fell that i'm being ignored... When you at least have a clear view, even if you disagree at some degree, is easier to help...

    Again personal opinion here fell free to disagree, and sorry if is not that relevant to the changes on this mod, but i just think those thougths could be usefull in next mods...

    PS. Sorry about any mistake my english is self taught.
  • jules#6770 jules Posts: 45Member Arc User
    @adinosii Yeah I know. I also read others opinions, too.
    What remains is: No matter if it was closed testing or preview testing, it is unpaid work for a product. Of course everybody did it willingly. Does this mean that anybody, closed or preview tester, is entitled to anything?
    Of course not.
    Could it have been handled better? Definitly.

    This needs to be stressed and adressed, because this is no way to keep a game running and people willing to test things. It kills motivation and drive, just because there's the basics missing, like communication.
    Every basic business training course covers this. It's not that hard.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,296Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    > @kemnimtarkas said:
    > ...Several people I know who spend 400-1000 per month have left to play ESO or grab the beta for Ashes of Creation, etc. ...
    >
    > -Gohaken
    >
    > That citation stopped me in my tracks...sorry, but I did not read the rest of the post...that is a LOT of money (assuming we aren't talking about some hyper inflated currency). If that's USD.... :o

    I spend that much...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • littledanger#4115 littledanger Posts: 44Member Arc User
    zerappus said:

    Mod16 class balance is a farce.

    The reason for the complete overhaul is because some classes and especially GWF in particular has perfect abilities and synergy.

    And what do the Developers do? Give them the same perfect abilities and synergy for mod 16.

    Right now the Barbarians (GWF) has

    Highest mobility
    Highest rate of attack (instant cast + short animation)
    Direct damage
    Burst damage
    Self buffs
    Self heal
    Perfect synergy combos and attacks that wills scale much better as NW progresses to the future.

    I'll give one example: Avalance of Steel Daily. Check out this beauty.

    Has a range lunge attack ( why does a melee class have a RANGED Daily?)
    Multi-target AOE ( I assume circular which is best for catching a lot of mobs )
    Damage immunity for 5 seconds
    Control immunity for 5 seconds
    Knockdown Effect ( excellent for setting up myriad of combos ).
    Magnitude of 700

    Basically a perfect daily attack. That's the problem; it is immaculately PERFECT.

    Here is the only Ranger AOE attack equivalent: Seismic Shock. What a duck.

    Ranged attack ( of course, Rangers are primarily range )
    Multi-target straight-line AOE ( hard to hit a lot of mobs in a narrow straight line when converging)
    Pulls mobs into the straight light caught in very narrow path (really useless and pointless)
    Magnitude of 550 (lower!)

    Look at the gap of these two dailies. It is night and day.

    NW is basically 80% SOLO with levelling, event, dailies, weeklies and 16 Campaigns that is meant for solo.

    The Avalanche of Steel is perfect whether you are near or far against a clump of mobs. There is no downside or limitations.

    Seismic Shock:

    Is difficult to aim
    No useful control effect whatsoever
    Has no synergistic combo effect ( such as Slow ) to set up the next attack
    has lower damage

    The 5 mobs from a distance converge on a Ranger Archer, how do we aim this?
    The 5 mobs are right next to us, we fire, we hit a couple and we are getting mauled within a second of firing.
    Meanwhile Avalance of Steel is perfect whether the mobs are far or near.

    Before the Developers say "we are going to balance this out eventually", how can this possibly be balanced?
    To balance these two Daily skills,

    The Avalance of Steel has to lose the RANGED attack and the Magnitude lowered to 200
    Are the Developers going to do that ( I doubt it ). Or

    Double the damage of Seismic Shock to 1400 Magnitude and give it Slow.
    Are the Developers going to do that? Let's say for argument's sake, yes.

    Now that our AOE Daily is commensurate with the Barbarian's Avalance of Steel, you look at our Single target Dailies which has 1400 magnitude or so.
    Are the Developers willing to up that to 2800 Magnitude?

    And so it goes. This is what happens if you give perfect abilities and synergies to a single special class, dubiously promoting a NW Caste system which is why the Mod 16 class overhaul is necessitated in the first place.

    You have to raise other classes to perfect status as well.

    Well? Are the NW Developers prepared to give other classes perfect status too??


    Well, it was stated in a live stream a few weeks back that barbarian was the Dev's baby and received 90% of his attention- this should come as no surprise since GWF has been OP for so long. There's a popular YT'er that has a Driftwood Tavern recap that captures the comments I just mentioned if you doubt me.
  • drumon88drumon88 Posts: 142Member Arc User


    In fact ALL Mount bonuses that provide Stat bonus points need buffing.

    Mount passives won't be increased for the PC launch of M16, but they are slated for an increase in a post launch patch.
    How far post launch? Are we talking 1-2 weeks, or are we talking "last patch before mod17"?
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Posts: 57Member Arc User
    zerappus said:

    Mod16 class balance is a farce.

    The reason for the complete overhaul is because some classes and especially GWF in particular has perfect abilities and synergy.

    And what do the Developers do? Give them the same perfect abilities and synergy for mod 16.

    Right now the Barbarians (GWF) has

    Highest mobility
    Highest rate of attack (instant cast + short animation)
    Direct damage
    Burst damage
    Self buffs
    Self heal
    Perfect synergy combos and attacks that wills scale much better as NW progresses to the future.

    I'll give one example: Avalance of Steel Daily. Check out this beauty.

    Has a range lunge attack ( why does a melee class have a RANGED Daily?)
    Multi-target AOE ( I assume circular which is best for catching a lot of mobs )
    Damage immunity for 5 seconds
    Control immunity for 5 seconds
    Knockdown Effect ( excellent for setting up myriad of combos ).
    Magnitude of 700

    Basically a perfect daily attack. That's the problem; it is immaculately PERFECT.

    Here is the only Ranger AOE attack equivalent: Seismic Shock. What a duck.

    Ranged attack ( of course, Rangers are primarily range )
    Multi-target straight-line AOE ( hard to hit a lot of mobs in a narrow straight line when converging)
    Pulls mobs into the straight light caught in very narrow path (really useless and pointless)
    Magnitude of 550 (lower!)

    Look at the gap of these two dailies. It is night and day.

    NW is basically 80% SOLO with levelling, event, dailies, weeklies and 16 Campaigns that is meant for solo.

    The Avalanche of Steel is perfect whether you are near or far against a clump of mobs. There is no downside or limitations.

    Seismic Shock:

    Is difficult to aim
    No useful control effect whatsoever
    Has no synergistic combo effect ( such as Slow ) to set up the next attack
    has lower damage

    The 5 mobs from a distance converge on a Ranger Archer, how do we aim this?
    The 5 mobs are right next to us, we fire, we hit a couple and we are getting mauled within a second of firing.
    Meanwhile Avalance of Steel is perfect whether the mobs are far or near.

    Before the Developers say "we are going to balance this out eventually", how can this possibly be balanced?
    To balance these two Daily skills,

    The Avalance of Steel has to lose the RANGED attack and the Magnitude lowered to 200
    Are the Developers going to do that ( I doubt it ). Or

    Double the damage of Seismic Shock to 1400 Magnitude and give it Slow.
    Are the Developers going to do that? Let's say for argument's sake, yes.

    Now that our AOE Daily is commensurate with the Barbarian's Avalance of Steel, you look at our Single target Dailies which has 1400 magnitude or so.
    Are the Developers willing to up that to 2800 Magnitude?

    And so it goes. This is what happens if you give perfect abilities and synergies to a single special class, dubiously promoting a NW Caste system which is why the Mod 16 class overhaul is necessitated in the first place.

    You have to raise other classes to perfect status as well.

    Well? Are the NW Developers prepared to give other classes perfect status too??





    Very funny how players from other classes always use GWF's as a parameter to the others. In the live, SW DPS gives the same damage or more than a GWF, and before the 15th module there were TR and GF, those famous for the 1st phase Orcus ToNG and the Baby of CODG. But every module there are always players asking for nerf in the GWF. Why not use your time to give suggestions to your class on their respective topic?

    In your comment you cite a Daily Power that most GWF's do not want to use even though it has been modified for the better. If you had read the specific class topic you would see that what most people want is the return of Slam to Blademaster and not that HAMSTER of Avalanche of Steel.

    @littledanger

    We have gained this priority because we will be a whole new class. Everything in the class has been totally modified and so this special attention. Before criticizing a specific class, try to know it to see if it is or is not "OP".

    I think these comments are only to divert the focus from the top dps classes in the tests. To conclude, I believe that this type of commentary does not help in anything in the balance of the classes as promised by the Dev's, and something that all yearn.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,376Member Arc User
    rafaelda said:


    snip>
    I believe that the dev's should express all the desing decisions that are "set to stone" and the other that arent, also the "main target" for the changes (in both cases) this would help us to help them much better.
    snip>

    I agree with most of what you say about the notion of having a proper documented explanation, detailing the goals of the change, giving specific methods and general intentions of the update, so everyone who jumps in to take part in preview testing is kind of on the same page and can work toward a joint goal.

    But having stuff that's set in stone is not such a great idea.
    For instance, with Mod 16 there's not much they haven't changed since the first release of it on Preview.
    The entire system changed from the "every stat the same" to the "hi-lo stats" and the stat to chance ration changed from 500:1 to 1000:1.
    I am positive that if they had been going to say "This is carved in stone" about anything, it wold have been one of those things, and to have said so would have put them in a position where they either look dumb for subsequently changing what they said they wouldn't, or keep the game broken by refusing to change what it later turns out out needs changing.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,376Member Arc User


    In fact ALL Mount bonuses that provide Stat bonus points need buffing.

    Mount passives won't be increased for the PC launch of M16, but they are slated for an increase in a post launch patch.
    Thanks for that.
    Please, don't make it a derisory figure just to say "we changed it".
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 311Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    bobo#5090 said:

    > @kemnimtarkas said:

    > ...Several people I know who spend 400-1000 per month have left to play ESO or grab the beta for Ashes of Creation, etc. ...

    >

    > -Gohaken

    >

    > That citation stopped me in my tracks...sorry, but I did not read the rest of the post...that is a LOT of money (assuming we aren't talking about some hyper inflated currency). If that's USD.... :o



    I spend that much...

    And I was pissed because I've spent just over $200.00USD in total, and focued it mostly on my pally. I think $10.00USD per month is too much...
    The point of mentioning numbers was to point out a high value customer demographic that has been rather damaged by the breakdown in communication, and ultimately by the game going in a direction that diminishes or even eliminates much of what that demographic is/was here for.

    The "forum voice" of this demographic is smaller than the actual number of people in it, and very disproportionate to their revenue impact on the game as a business system. This is, in my opinion, due largely to the negative social pressure in the community for people who identify themselves as significant cash spenders (significant being a subjective term, as bobo has illustrated in contrast with my original post and demonmonger's reply). We run into derogatory terms like Wallet Warrior and Pay 2 Win, and other players who brag about being Free Players. To me, that social stigma is bass ackwards -- free players are just free loaders, primarily extracting value from the system whereas people who pay cash (whether 10$ or 1000$) are putting value in.

    So I spoke up and took the social hit for the like-minded folks I'm close with, despite the low chance of it making a difference, because I love this game and some of the connections and friendships I have here, and the incoming sea change seems to be destroying most of what I've come to love.

    At this point I am very aware that the mod is going live and what I/we are saying is highly unlikely to influence the "go live" or "shortly post go live" state. My best case scenario at this point is to turn some of this around sometime relatively soon after, and hopefully attract back some folks to a game they once loved that has gotten back some of it's soul again.

    With all due respect sir but what makes you think that paying will brings you devs attention?

    Entire group of forum users are in fact just a tiny bit of game population. We are indicators, but nothing more here. If any one here belived that he can have a big impact on a game shape - even in such special time we have now, it was a bit naive. We are heard when it suits devs, when we are usefull for them but nothing more.
    If you are paing customer of free customer is irrelevant here.

    Its devs sandbox. You can comapre it to buying a ticket to a great show. Price is not important - it could be a regular ticket for 20$ or VIP for 2000$ or even a free ticket - still you are not controling the show - you just participate/watch and nothing more. You can like it and getting back buying more tickets, or not liking at all never to came back.
    And as long as there would be new comer willing to pay for a ticket there gona be a show. Cash flow is secured - who is paying is irrelevant.

    And I belive a current state of the game was in fact diminishing their ravenue, and that was a real reason of changes. Just take a look on the ZAX - its nearly a year of huge backlog while 3 years ago ZENs were lying on the ground, not worth to pick them up. That is real indicator of this game condition, and that in short means that current paying part of game comunity is not enaugh. So the huge rework was implemented in hope to bring more customers - If its gona save this game - I dont know - I hope so.
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Posts: 311Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    drumon88 said:


    In fact ALL Mount bonuses that provide Stat bonus points need buffing.

    Mount passives won't be increased for the PC launch of M16, but they are slated for an increase in a post launch patch.
    How far post launch? Are we talking 1-2 weeks, or are we talking "last patch before mod17"?
    When?
    I'd guess, close to the time of 3 other documented dev promises:

    Before the 3rd PvP map is added but after the Foundry and Gateway are updated.
    ROFL

    You again....:D
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,296Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 18
    even though i dont like how mod 16 changes the game.
    I spent $150.00usd on the mod 16 delvers pack (mainly for the rank 15 enchantmentx2 + toothsome)
    I spent another $250.00usd to buy all the enchantments i will need to thrive in mod 16.

    price of an xbox one for a mod change it seems...

    i have hope things will get better...

    I hope things don't get worse..

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
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