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Official M16: Stats and Mechanics

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  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    *comment deleted*
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 869 Arc User
    gripnir78 said:



    From a devs point of view there may be a long time perspective like "it will WAI within 3 mods" sure.
    From players perspective witch is always short timed ( I want have fun NOW not in 3 modules) its not WAI.

    I really doubt that new content will hold us busy long enaugh to wait for a new modules, for many reasons, witch was pointed out in this thread many times.

    So for me, many of those changes are made to make a new player friendly environment in this game even more.
    Witch wouldnt be a bad thing, BUT it leads to old player base anihilation.
    All those changes made most of ours pre mod 16 efforts insignificant. What a little is left from it, is even more devaluated due to scalling.
    It is in fact a hard reset.

    So it seems they want to exchange veteran, but not paying/needing ZEN player base for fresh and eager to pay.
    Cant say I blame them, but wouldnt be better to work over a solution keepig old timers playing and paying and new comers staying and paying?

    There is however one thing I simply cannot understand - when all our enchantments/legendary mounts/cmapign completions are - lets be honest - almost insignificant in a MOD 16 - how they want to encourage a new players to spend any real money? For what? Rank 14 enchant witch in fact gives you LOL in compare to almost free rank 8, and witch work same in lower level content? Really? For 25$? REALLY?
    Sure a new player may made such a mistake to buy few of those but he will realise really soon its not giving him in fact any real profit. From bussines perspective counting on profit based on such a foundation is not smart.
    Sure some will say that a lot of games brings a lot of profit just selling a visuals/skins. - sure but you need to implement such system form a start - not after years where spending real money alowed you to fill gap to BIS end game players. Since MOD 16 there will bo no real gap....

    So... there must be something else... and I wont be suprised if our ZEN store gona be reworked as well...

    P.S. Enchantement exchange was recently removed form a test server.... rank 14/15 enchants hitting ZEN store or?.....

    I think everything you said is correct. Take or leave. Its a bussiness. Anyway lots of people will stay and adapt. Some will leave. Some will come later when the bugs are gone (big ones at least).

    But even with the reduction of the gap between news and olds people who played for 6 years have a lot of knowledge of the game that is more valuable than some items or stats. An experienced player is much more valuable than 5K Item Level.

    I think the Zen store will not change much, they will sell companions, mounts, some services, VIP, Keys, etc. I dont think there is a problem. If lots of new players come, the money will come, even if you dont sell coal wards.

    What they have to do once they have everything under control (that can take 1 module or more) is add to the game REAL options, like new classes, races, paragon paths, etc. This change is supossed to make the life easier to developers that allways said that the complexity of the core game was stopping them to add this options.

    But well, we will see.
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  • itzlapolaloltzitzlapolaloltz Member Posts: 37 Arc User
    from "stand the ground" to "run like a chicken" sure mod16 is a U-turn
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 649 Arc User
    adinosii said:

    One, people who play mostly solo now will NOT find groups to play with. If solo becomes a drag they are gone. Two, I am willing to bet the majority of NW actual playtime is solo for the non elite. These two facts combined is bad news for MOD16.

    Most players, not just "non-elite" spend a good deal of time playing solo - just doing their dailies and weeklies and such. In fact, "elite" players might even play more solo, as they can handle more of the content alone in the first place.

    However, you are absolutely right that Mod 16 will impact solo play. For a BiS character the only real difference will be that combat is slower, and you might not be able to pull many groups of enemies to one location and nuke them out of existence. In my testing (with a stopwatch), I found that combat (in instanced L70 content) with a IL 24K L80 on Preview takes about 50% longer than it currently takes the same character (just IL 19K L70) on live.

    For less-geared or less skilled players, solo play will not only take much, much longer (some have reported up to a 250% increase in time) - it will also be more dangerous, and for many people, more boring.

    I used to recommend Neverwinter to anyone looking for a "solo-friendly" MMO, but it is really, really hard to do that any more.
    It feels like the last map on EE launch, made a Guardian Fighter back then just to help guildies to level that place because any CW ot TR was just smashed by the cloud giants, also remmeber a lot of people calling "tank/heals help" for lairs there.

    But back then was only oneinstance that you woul do and then forget, nothing like a place where you have to work on boons...
    this can be a hard hit for new players... and i believe this same new players are the main focus on mod 15 and 16 changes...

    Hope that is dont get this big and any 2man party be able to run those places, not making Tank or heals so needed on "solo" content...
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,206 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    rafaelda said:

    adinosii said:

    One, people who play mostly solo now will NOT find groups to play with. If solo becomes a drag they are gone. Two, I am willing to bet the majority of NW actual playtime is solo for the non elite. These two facts combined is bad news for MOD16.

    Most players, not just "non-elite" spend a good deal of time playing solo - just doing their dailies and weeklies and such. In fact, "elite" players might even play more solo, as they can handle more of the content alone in the first place.

    However, you are absolutely right that Mod 16 will impact solo play. For a BiS character the only real difference will be that combat is slower, and you might not be able to pull many groups of enemies to one location and nuke them out of existence. In my testing (with a stopwatch), I found that combat (in instanced L70 content) with a IL 24K L80 on Preview takes about 50% longer than it currently takes the same character (just IL 19K L70) on live.

    For less-geared or less skilled players, solo play will not only take much, much longer (some have reported up to a 250% increase in time) - it will also be more dangerous, and for many people, more boring.

    I used to recommend Neverwinter to anyone looking for a "solo-friendly" MMO, but it is really, really hard to do that any more.
    It feels like the last map on EE launch, made a Guardian Fighter back then just to help guildies to level that place because any CW ot TR was just smashed by the cloud giants, also remmeber a lot of people calling "tank/heals help" for lairs there.

    But back then was only oneinstance that you woul do and then forget, nothing like a place where you have to work on boons...
    this can be a hard hit for new players... and i believe this same new players are the main focus on mod 15 and 16 changes...

    Hope that is dont get this big and any 2man party be able to run those places, not making Tank or heals so needed on "solo" content...
    That brings back some unpleasant memories. I remember having to group for Nimbus Tower (AKA rebranded Celadaine's Tower) because soloing the boss fight was all but impossible. Not fun. Not fun at all.

    It wasn't just there, though. I couldn't count all the guildies I've had to escort through the entire Fiery Pit part of the campaign back in the Mod 9 days. EE was brutal back then.
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  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I spent some time in IWD and DR last night and found both to be playable and completable for a level 70-71 and a level 80 toon. Any enemy in those zones that is “smashing” you is probably a bug.

    Similar in Sharandar and Omu previously.

    I still need to look at Shoshenstar, River District, Well of Dragons and re-visit Barovia.

    But certainly some of these zones have now been tweaked to give a satisfactory play experience for a level 80 toon.
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  • raziel2004#7353 raziel2004 Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    Actually I kinda like intense combat during soloing.. Like dc before 30% increase personal dmg mods before.. dancing around storm giants ... oh the adrenaline..
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    And just so we are clear the situation in lower level zones seems to be OK.

    The situation in the dungeons linked to those zones is still utterly ridiculous.



    Oh those are the same stats you get for all the T1 Dungeons (KR, SoT, LoL, VT, MC) and in IWD and Well of Dragons.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
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    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    That's funny. Just over the weekend I was getting different stats in Kessel vs Shore vs eLoL vs Mala. My hp, power, crit, and Penn we're different in each dungeon by about 4-5k. Thankfully this time around my stats stayed the same through the entirety of each run, but they were different in each one. Also, something is weird with Kessel. The baddies in there hit way harder than anything we got hit by in the other runs.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,215 Arc User
    You cannot avoid leveling up.....you can delay it, but that's all.
    (Mostly) taking a break from the game - hoping for improvements.
  • mdarkangel#4696 mdarkangel Member Posts: 442 Arc User
    .
    adinosii said:

    You cannot avoid leveling up.....you can delay it, but that's all.

    Delay it... By not playing, right?
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    Well, pretty much, yeah.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    RIQ is a botting place, you even can watch some of those programm searching for setup or failing right at the start.
    Worst experience so far, me and 4 bots in one Master of the Hunt. 2 player dc`d after a while, pretty sure a preset bahaviour if things take too long. One rogue-bot in following-mode simply just stood there and went into stealth and back (poor programmed bot I guess). The last one a GWF-bot was playing till the end.. headless programmed bot I call him. The dungeon failed, I could have made a video about that slapstick comedy.
    A solution is needed indeed, at least you should not get punisehd for leaving a mixed group out of bots and leecher. This punishes only the ambitioned player and favours bot/leeching behaviour. Mabye give us 3 free attempts a day to leave a brainless groups like that, after leaving 3 times you can punish the 4.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • tardbathtardbath Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Is Oppressor's Reprlevs insignia bonus removed ? I can't match it after last patch on my Suratuk's teal crag cat mount !
  • thestiathestia Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    <font color=Cyan> I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.

    In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,328 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    thestia said:

    I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.



    In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.

    it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.


  • thestiathestia Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 296 Arc User

    thestia said:

    I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.



    In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.

    it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.
    Honestly I wasn't seeing the scaling problem before. I went to Sharandar and completed everything in a similar timeframe as I would on live. Then I heard there was a problem in Shoshenstar River so I went there to test. The problem becomes immediately apparent from critters in the jungle (I stopped to bless a shrine surrounded by spiders). I'm not a fan of House of the Crocodile in general, but there's NO WAY I'm ever running it in mod 16. I haven't tried Fane yet, and I'm already feeling sick to my stomach. In level 80 content, I'm blasting elites and trash mobs alike and in level 70 content I'm clawing my eyes out in boredom from how long it takes.

    Wouldn't it just be easier to make all content level 80 with varying stats rather than scaling everyone to varying degrees of effectiveness? Apparently they are already capping each piece of gear individually, perhaps they could have just scaled everything to 80 and made the stats on items that drop in those areas with appropriate stats according to where they drop. Seems like their current idea of scaling is overly complicated and doesn't work in practice.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,328 Arc User
    thestia said:

    thestia said:

    I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.



    In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.

    it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.
    Honestly I wasn't seeing the scaling problem before. I went to Sharandar and completed everything in a similar timeframe as I would on live. Then I heard there was a problem in Shoshenstar River so I went there to test. The problem becomes immediately apparent from critters in the jungle (I stopped to bless a shrine surrounded by spiders). I'm not a fan of House of the Crocodile in general, but there's NO WAY I'm ever running it in mod 16. I haven't tried Fane yet, and I'm already feeling sick to my stomach. In level 80 content, I'm blasting elites and trash mobs alike and in level 70 content I'm clawing my eyes out in boredom from how long it takes.

    Wouldn't it just be easier to make all content level 80 with varying stats rather than scaling everyone to varying degrees of effectiveness? Apparently they are already capping each piece of gear individually, perhaps they could have just scaled everything to 80 and made the stats on items that drop in those areas with appropriate stats according to where they drop. Seems like their current idea of scaling is overly complicated and doesn't work in practice.
    I don't know what the answer is but it's clearly not what is going on now.


  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    I don't see why lifting content to L80 should be a bad thing.

    For whatever reason, (GIMMICK!!!!!!!) a new level cap was added. Therefore level 70 is not important any more. The only remaining vestige of it's previous relevance is the fact that there is a HAMSTER tonne of content that used to be end game, but is now 10 levels below the stupid increased cap, and causing the biggest problem the game has seen since Mod 6 due to the completely inadequate system of down scaling).

    No on is going to hang about once they hit L70 running Dread Ring and Icewind Dale. They will skip as quickly as they can through whatever gets them the XP to get to L80.

    At that point they will either do Undermountain... and Undermountain.... and some more Undermountain... ad infinitum till Mod 17 offers a reprieve...
    Or...
    They will go back and get butt HAMSTER by scaling in old "lower level" content that is, for whatever mind bending reason the Powers That Be have decreed, twice as bloody hard as the Undermountain.

    Why does all that stuff NEED to be L70? Why do the Dungeons NEED to be L70?

    Bump them all up to a basic version of L80, (except for the top most Dungeons) and make scaling less relevant.

    Before anyone says, "But that would make all that content so much harder..."
    It wouldn't.
    Not unless you have some magic trick to keep your toon below L71 for ALL those campaigns.

    Stop downscaling the players...
    UPSCALE the content...
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User

    I don't see why lifting content to L80 should be a bad thing.

    For whatever reason, (GIMMICK!!!!!!!) a new level cap was added. Therefore level 70 is not important any more. The only remaining vestige of it's previous relevance is the fact that there is a HAMSTER tonne of content that used to be end game, but is now 10 levels below the stupid increased cap, and causing the biggest problem the game has seen since Mod 6 due to the completely inadequate system of down scaling).

    No on is going to hang about once they hit L70 running Dread Ring and Icewind Dale. They will skip as quickly as they can through whatever gets them the XP to get to L80.

    At that point they will either do Undermountain... and Undermountain.... and some more Undermountain... ad infinitum till Mod 17 offers a reprieve...
    Or...
    They will go back and get butt HAMSTER by scaling in old "lower level" content that is, for whatever mind bending reason the Powers That Be have decreed, twice as bloody hard as the Undermountain.

    Why does all that stuff NEED to be L70? Why do the Dungeons NEED to be L70?

    Bump them all up to a basic version of L80, (except for the top most Dungeons) and make scaling less relevant.

    Before anyone says, "But that would make all that content so much harder..."
    It wouldn't.
    Not unless you have some magic trick to keep your toon below L71 for ALL those campaigns.

    Stop downscaling the players...
    UPSCALE the content...

    Funny, but it seems for me it is done in both ways^^
  • drumon88drumon88 Member Posts: 142 Arc User

    thestia said:

    I have enough Armor Penetration at level 80 to deal true damage to critters in Lair of the Mad Mage. However, due to scaling, I do NOT have enough armor pen to deal true damage to critters in Shoshenstar River where I am scaled to level 70.



    In my opinion, it makes no sense that I need more gear to complete level 70 solo content than I would to complete the newest content of the game, end of story.

    it's soooo broken. it's no where near ready for release. they bit off too much here imo in no way is this an improvement. I think this was all done with 500/1 stats in mind we were fine before. maybe if they even dialled it back to 700 or 800 to one there could be some compromise. (although I'm firmly against scaling in any form) but the reality is if it's doable and not too painful most will soldier on. in a case like this were it's punishing/unrewarding/pointless and basically everything you just don't want ina game people will walk adn not come back. when it was 500 to 1 I was really non fussed with everything. tbh I didn't even look at notice the scaling.
    It took my soulweaver warlock, who's 19.9k and lvl 80, 6 minutes to kill a pair of DEER in Barovia last night. At no point was I at risk of dying, being a healer and all, but even though I should have had somewhere in the neighborhood of 80% armor pen (I'm actually about 4k over cap in lvl 80 zones) I was hitting in the 1500-2000 range with all my encounters and my at-wills were doing 800-1100. They seemed to be the standout exception as I had no problem killing zombies, vampires, etc (was even able to solo Martikov Merchants sHE, albeit with difficulty) but since they're part of a repeatable quest and you have to kill a whole bunch of them, I'm not sure they actually just got overlooked on the tuning and may be "WAI" by Cryptic's perspective.
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