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  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    No one is complaining about the Module itself. It's pretty good.

    Indeed.
    • The new zones look good, and the campaign is fine.
    • The Expeditions are a good idea, and the ability to "tune" the difficulty and reward level is similar to the idea behind the Barovia hunts, and it should be popular. It is still a bit buggy, but the "idea" is fine.
    • LoMM is a welcome addition, a high-end dungeon which allows you to eventually get the highest-rank gear. Again, there are still some bugs, but the idea is fine.
    • Level increase to L80, Enchant max rank increase by one level and a new tier of Artifacts, armor and weapons - just as expected, and it's fine.
    • Some QoL improvements, streak breakers and removal of ID scolls. Again, just fine.
    The issue I have is with how meaningful choices are being removed - hard-earned stuff like enchants is being devalued in favour of "easy-to-get" gear, how combat becomes slower, a lot less fluid and does not require any synchronization, how initial stats are being made meaningless, feats are mostly useless and boons have only a minimal effect - basically how the whole game seems to be changing to appeal to a changing population - one that I do not belong to.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User


    I wonder if players on PSN and MS can request that these companies deny Cryptic the right to upgrade our version with mod 16 since it not actually a game update but a new game given its a complete change to the game core mechanics.

    Mod 16 is clearly an update, not a new game ... so Sony and Microsoft aren't even going to entertain this.

    But every module we get this "Oh no, you are changing my favorite class. Can't we just keep this Mod forever?" The answer is always the same .... The player base wants new content and Cryptic needs new things to sell for zen. Each module represents a huge amount of time and manpower (and of course money) invested by Cryptic in the game - and they hope to get that back in zen sales during that module. On PC we have already reached the point where everyone is either finished the AI campaign or just tired of running it .... it's time for new content.
    It is not an update; it is a complete remake of the game. It is not NWO, it is NWO2. Game is not even the same.

    Also I am entitled as a gamer, go ask Bioware and what happens when entitled players get what they want. They become happy gamers and continue to support your product. This happend with Mass Effect 3; players were upset with how Bioware ended that series, so gamers got together and Bioware took notice and made a patch to resolve the issue of how the story ended.

    With that said, I have spent much more money on NWO and therefore I feel that Cryptic should hear me and all players out, especially those of us who dislike the changes to the class and combat. They should listen to us and do what they can to appease us as their consumers. After all, we as the consumer is what is keeping NWO afloat.

    Will Cryptic bend to our will; maybe not now or for a month or two or even three. But if enough players QUIT and their profit level drops dramatically, they will make changes by adding complexity back into the game and improve combat back to the level it is now in mod 15. We won't know until 3-6 months out if this will be done or not. IMO, it will be given how bad combat is and how there is no complexity now to designing a character. Even Anthem as a loot shooter has more complexity than NWO does in mod 16 and that is not a good sign as NWO is a RPGMMO and not a loot shooter.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    I’m hoping that the players would give mod 16 a chance, see how their classes would be, I know that the preview servers are having trouble with bugs but when it finally goes live on the 23rd, NW will have fixed it 😊

    you new around here, arent you ?


    I wonder if players on PSN and MS can request that these companies deny Cryptic the right to upgrade our version with mod 16 since it not actually a game update but a new game given its a complete change to the game core mechanics.

    Mod 16 is clearly an update, not a new game ... so Sony and Microsoft aren't even going to entertain this.

    But every module we get this "Oh no, you are changing my favorite class. Can't we just keep this Mod forever?" The answer is always the same .... The player base wants new content and Cryptic needs new things to sell for zen. Each module represents a huge amount of time and manpower (and of course money) invested by Cryptic in the game - and they hope to get that back in zen sales during that module. On PC we have already reached the point where everyone is either finished the AI campaign or just tired of running it .... it's time for new content.
    It is not an update; it is a complete remake of the game. It is not NWO, it is NWO2. Game is not even the same.

    Also I am entitled as a gamer, go ask Bioware and what happens when entitled players get what they want. They become happy gamers and continue to support your product. This happend with Mass Effect 3; players were upset with how Bioware ended that series, so gamers got together and Bioware took notice and made a patch to resolve the issue of how the story ended.

    With that said, I have spent much more money on NWO and therefore I feel that Cryptic should hear me and all players out, especially those of us who dislike the changes to the class and combat. They should listen to us and do what they can to appease us as their consumers. After all, we as the consumer is what is keeping NWO afloat.

    Will Cryptic bend to our will; maybe not now or for a month or two or even three. But if enough players QUIT and their profit level drops dramatically, they will make changes by adding complexity back into the game and improve combat back to the level it is now in mod 15. We won't know until 3-6 months out if this will be done or not. IMO, it will be given how bad combat is and how there is no complexity now to designing a character. Even Anthem as a loot shooter has more complexity than NWO does in mod 16 and that is not a good sign as NWO is a RPGMMO and not a loot shooter.

    The issue with the game is that the end game players and I am one of them are god like, you cant die I did Ravenloft last night and we go through dungeons with no issues. Some of these Dungeons should be somewhat hard. I would like the feats to stay but I am ok with Life steal and Recovery going away. God like toons have no fun value at all.
    most people say they are invincible godline, yet almost nobody did KTeam Ravenloft, do it and tell me you are invincible.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,086 Arc User
    If endgamers are godlike, why do they continuously call out for "exp and scrolls" to run CR and Cradle?
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    leonidrex said:

    I’m hoping that the players would give mod 16 a chance, see how their classes would be, I know that the preview servers are having trouble with bugs but when it finally goes live on the 23rd, NW will have fixed it 😊

    you new around here, arent you ?


    I wonder if players on PSN and MS can request that these companies deny Cryptic the right to upgrade our version with mod 16 since it not actually a game update but a new game given its a complete change to the game core mechanics.

    Mod 16 is clearly an update, not a new game ... so Sony and Microsoft aren't even going to entertain this.

    But every module we get this "Oh no, you are changing my favorite class. Can't we just keep this Mod forever?" The answer is always the same .... The player base wants new content and Cryptic needs new things to sell for zen. Each module represents a huge amount of time and manpower (and of course money) invested by Cryptic in the game - and they hope to get that back in zen sales during that module. On PC we have already reached the point where everyone is either finished the AI campaign or just tired of running it .... it's time for new content.
    It is not an update; it is a complete remake of the game. It is not NWO, it is NWO2. Game is not even the same.

    Also I am entitled as a gamer, go ask Bioware and what happens when entitled players get what they want. They become happy gamers and continue to support your product. This happend with Mass Effect 3; players were upset with how Bioware ended that series, so gamers got together and Bioware took notice and made a patch to resolve the issue of how the story ended.

    With that said, I have spent much more money on NWO and therefore I feel that Cryptic should hear me and all players out, especially those of us who dislike the changes to the class and combat. They should listen to us and do what they can to appease us as their consumers. After all, we as the consumer is what is keeping NWO afloat.

    Will Cryptic bend to our will; maybe not now or for a month or two or even three. But if enough players QUIT and their profit level drops dramatically, they will make changes by adding complexity back into the game and improve combat back to the level it is now in mod 15. We won't know until 3-6 months out if this will be done or not. IMO, it will be given how bad combat is and how there is no complexity now to designing a character. Even Anthem as a loot shooter has more complexity than NWO does in mod 16 and that is not a good sign as NWO is a RPGMMO and not a loot shooter.

    The issue with the game is that the end game players and I am one of them are god like, you cant die I did Ravenloft last night and we go through dungeons with no issues. Some of these Dungeons should be somewhat hard. I would like the feats to stay but I am ok with Life steal and Recovery going away. God like toons have no fun value at all.
    most people say they are invincible godline, yet almost nobody did KTeam Ravenloft, do it and tell me you are invincible.
    Come on, Kteam Ravenloft is one thing in the game ONE... Everyday stuff is different and you know this.
    false logic my friend. I do know this but you must see my point. the fact that we are too strong for most things is apparent, but butchering a game is not the answear.
    add diminishing to recovery, cap lifesteal in similar fashion to PoE, where lifesteal heals you OVER time, and is capped at % max hp/s . severity would increase that cap.
    the only way to make things work is 1 Add diminishing returns. and 2 make penetrations, penetrate % of defences.
    example. I have 50% damage res.
    Enemy has 50% armor pen. So he penetrates 50% of my 50% defence meaning he gets throught 25%, meaning i take 75% damage.
    Currently we reach a cap and are done, this way every % matters, but matters less and less as it SHOULD BE.
    The thing is, they cant really make things actually hard, bugs prevent it. I did CR Kteam, and let me tell you, its the bugs that got me more then actually fights being hard.
    Keam CR is tought, and i would argue that there is a way for other things to make them tought too. but the mod 16 is wrong execution.
  • silverkeltsilverkelt Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,235 Arc User
    cr is a bugfest that they refuse to fix, except for the bugs that were helping players.. there is never more then 1 or 2 runs going at any one time for that dungeon.. most REQs teams still will be like, if tong ok, if cradle.. maybe.. if cr.. im bailing. Its doable only because currently .. overpowered mess allows it..

    Sad.. because I barely know the place.. because no one ever wants to run it. Maybe the least run dungeon they have ever done.

    Im still trying to figure this massive call that we supposedly have of making things so hard that we shouldnt be able to finish.

    That is a thing now? I cant remember another mmo where eventually we didnt get to the point even in raids where we always finished after a few weeks or couple of months.

    Rebooting the game to make it feel like mod 1 or 2.. wont make the game as fun as mod 1 or 2..

    Frankly, the game was fun because we didnt have to focus on so much HAMSTER and gear and junk. we got free ad for logging in every day with leadership.. , did a few weeklies , did some pvp and guant and worked on a few alts.

    The game was fun, because we had alot of choices and few limitations. This will not be the case in mod 16.. not anywhere close to it.

    I know this is silly, but one of the biggest detractors for mod 16 for me personally is this stupid speed reduction.

    I never built around speed, but if you strip out all of your speed modifers on a lower alt.. wowzers.. this is what mod 16 feels like.. like we are retrogressing a ton. There were so many speed buffs as it stands now..

    It annoys me to know end. WHY YOU MAKE US SO SLOW BRO'?


  • draugkirdraugkir Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited April 2019



    The changes in mod 16 was done for one simple reason, it is easier for the current team to balance classes out with the simplified feats compared to what was available in mod 15 and prior. This update takes away our freedom to design our characters like we would when we play D&D. Instead we get predefined stats, limitation on feats, and of course a reduction in powers.

    If I was Hasbro I would pull the D&D license from Cyrptic as NWO mod16 is not a D&D product. D&D is a complex role playing game and if Cryptic cannot produce such a product, maybe they should drop the license and let another company take it over that can deliver on a D&D mmo game.

    Mod 16 pretty much reworks most of the game mechanics so yes.. it can be considered almost like a new game.
    That will raise many legal issues im sure. The game is not even remotly related to D&D at all.

    We just watching the start of the thing and issues to come.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,086 Arc User
    What works in p-n-p play does not necessarily translate well to computer. Classes, races, etc. all tie to the source material, so yes, it is D&D.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • cherryman1cherryman1 Member Posts: 340 Arc User

    I left wow for exactly the same reason after playng it for 12 years, i found this game and i like it, now its going in the same bad direction like wow did, i think its a new greedy strategy where they make everything take alot of time to do in the hopes of keeping you online as much as posibile, lemme tell you from experience, it will backfire becaus people will get boored real fast.

    And guess what you left WOW and its still doing just fine and has more people playing now then before. So walk away from here as well I don't care.
    You are feel like you are entitled to something and you are not, you have ever right to walk away and play what? IF you like WOW and This what will you play if every time a change is made you runaway? Yes there are a couple others out there but they are horrible that's why your aren't playing them.

    You all miss the point, point is its changing deal with it but you haven't even tried it. There are plenty of people that do like it and plenty that don't and the ones that have played it and don't like it fine I am ok with that but the ones that haven't stop complaining until you do. Again you all feel entitled to everything and you are entitled to nothing. You have played the game and the money you spent you have got your money worth of playing. Now there is a change. You don't go buy a game and when you are done with it want your money back.... So its changing you get a new game and move on but damn stop your bitching.

    WoW has lost more than half of their player base in the last year. How would you call that "doing fine"?
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 55k : Siren (TR): 60k : Torun (DC): 54k : Siren OP (OP): 59k : Siren SW (SW): 54k : Modern (F): 62k : Cherry1 (CW) : 48k Siren HR (HR): 54k
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User


    I wonder if players on PSN and MS can request that these companies deny Cryptic the right to upgrade our version with mod 16 since it not actually a game update but a new game given its a complete change to the game core mechanics.

    Mod 16 is clearly an update, not a new game ... so Sony and Microsoft aren't even going to entertain this.

    But every module we get this "Oh no, you are changing my favorite class. Can't we just keep this Mod forever?" The answer is always the same .... The player base wants new content and Cryptic needs new things to sell for zen. Each module represents a huge amount of time and manpower (and of course money) invested by Cryptic in the game - and they hope to get that back in zen sales during that module. On PC we have already reached the point where everyone is either finished the AI campaign or just tired of running it .... it's time for new content.
    It is not an update; it is a complete remake of the game. It is not NWO, it is NWO2. Game is not even the same.

    Also I am entitled as a gamer, go ask Bioware and what happens when entitled players get what they want. They become happy gamers and continue to support your product. This happend with Mass Effect 3; players were upset with how Bioware ended that series, so gamers got together and Bioware took notice and made a patch to resolve the issue of how the story ended.

    With that said, I have spent much more money on NWO and therefore I feel that Cryptic should hear me and all players out, especially those of us who dislike the changes to the class and combat. They should listen to us and do what they can to appease us as their consumers. After all, we as the consumer is what is keeping NWO afloat.

    Will Cryptic bend to our will; maybe not now or for a month or two or even three. But if enough players QUIT and their profit level drops dramatically, they will make changes by adding complexity back into the game and improve combat back to the level it is now in mod 15. We won't know until 3-6 months out if this will be done or not. IMO, it will be given how bad combat is and how there is no complexity now to designing a character. Even Anthem as a loot shooter has more complexity than NWO does in mod 16 and that is not a good sign as NWO is a RPGMMO and not a loot shooter.

    The issue with the game is that the end game players and I am one of them are god like, you cant die I did Ravenloft last night and we go through dungeons with no issues. Some of these Dungeons should be somewhat hard. I would like the feats to stay but I am ok with Life steal and Recovery going away. God like toons have no fun value at all.
    I see your point of views and there were better ways to resolve those issues.

    Mod 16 causes more issues than problems it is resolving.

    1) Scaling implementation is one of the worst I experienced
    2) Character customization almost completely removed - devs might as well pick the feats for us based on the paragon path we pick, it is that bad
    3) Combat is tedious, slow, and boring

    I came to NWO as I liked the combat it offers over ESO. It reminded of the fast pace combat I enjoyed when I played DCUO, though DCUO was still a bit faster. Now if we look at ESO and NWO combat today ESO is still a bit slower and clunky when comparing it to NWO mod 15. Come mod 16 ESO wins hands down.

    I'm not the only players that enjoys the ability to do character customization and the combat in NWO. Many who I talk to new and old alike, they all like both though some classes within the game could have used an update for additional options. But overall most players liked the variety NWO had and the combat it offered. Mod 16 is taking away the customization and the combat becomes a CHORE.

    Let me make this perfectly clear with that last statement. Player WALK AWAY from games when playing become a CHORE and combat in NWO is a CHORE because it is slow, boring, and tedious.

  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    > @soulseeker#1880 said:
    > I left wow for exactly the same reason after playng it for 12 years, i found this game and i like it, now its going in the same bad direction like wow did, i think its a new greedy strategy where they make everything take alot of time to do in the hopes of keeping you online as much as posibile, lemme tell you from experience, it will backfire becaus people will get boored real fast.
    >
    > And guess what you left WOW and its still doing just fine and has more people playing now then before. So walk away from here as well I don't care.
    > You are feel like you are entitled to something and you are not, you have ever right to walk away and play what? IF you like WOW and This what will you play if every time a change is made you runaway? Yes there are a couple others out there but they are horrible that's why your aren't playing them.
    >
    > You all miss the point, point is its changing deal with it but you haven't even tried it. There are plenty of people that do like it and plenty that don't and the ones that have played it and don't like it fine I am ok with that but the ones that haven't stop complaining until you do. Again you all feel entitled to everything and you are entitled to nothing. You have played the game and the money you spent you have got your money worth of playing. Now there is a change. You don't go buy a game and when you are done with it want your money back.... So its changing you get a new game and move on but damn stop your bitching.
    >
    >
    >
    > WoW has lost more than half of their player base in the last year. How would you call that "doing fine"?
    >
    > Well lets see what Neverwinter is doing WOW has done 2 times, as of today they have 3.4 million players that seems to be a fine number of people who are paying to play. Now I like everything about MOD 16 minus the fact they are taking our feats away other then that its all good.

    Going to be philosophical for a second: Some people will likethe changes, some will hate them, and others will just be meh and deal with it.

    I say give it a chance, and hope that more stay then leave. If we see a mass exodus of players I can see the devs trying to do quick patches to make changes before the mod hits the consoles.

    If there is a mass exodus on pc and no changes are done and it hits consoles and the same happens, the devs wil have no one to blame but themseves.

    Tldr: Give it a chance, but Im not holding out hope that we won't see the ship sail with plenty of people on it.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,086 Arc User
    That's okay. We know there are dragon turtles where that ship is sailing.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • demonmongerdemonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    > @dread4moor said:
    > > @majorcharvenak said:
    > > I’m hoping that the players would give mod 16 a chance, see how their classes would be, I know that the preview servers are having trouble with bugs but when it finally goes live on the 23rd, NW will have fixed it 😊
    > >
    > > Hope over Experience
    > >
    > > Experience over Hope. :p
    >
    > This.
    > This whole thread is meaningless and adding nothing to improving Mod16.
    > Sycophantic cheerleading is not feedback.
    >
    > I've spent ~2 hours per day for a ~4 weeks on preview.
    > Giving constructive and specific feedback (some of it positive) on preview threads.
    >
    > That's the definition of "giving it a chance" and trying to improve it.

    > @silverkelt said:
    > cr is a bugfest that they refuse to fix, except for the bugs that were helping players.. there is never more then 1 or 2 runs going at any one time for that dungeon.. most REQs teams still will be like, if tong ok, if cradle.. maybe.. if cr.. im bailing. Its doable only because currently .. overpowered mess allows it..
    >
    > Sad.. because I barely know the place.. because no one ever wants to run it. Maybe the least run dungeon they have ever done.
    >
    > Im still trying to figure this massive call that we supposedly have of making things so hard that we shouldnt be able to finish.
    >
    > That is a thing now? I cant remember another mmo where eventually we didnt get to the point even in raids where we always finished after a few weeks or couple of months.
    >
    > Rebooting the game to make it feel like mod 1 or 2.. wont make the game as fun as mod 1 or 2..
    >
    > Frankly, the game was fun because we didnt have to focus on so much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and gear and junk. we got free ad for logging in every day with leadership.. , did a few weeklies , did some pvp and guant and worked on a few alts.
    >
    > The game was fun, because we had alot of choices and few limitations. This will not be the case in mod 16.. not anywhere close to it.
    >
    > I know this is silly, but one of the biggest detractors for mod 16 for me personally is this stupid speed reduction.
    >
    > I never built around speed, but if you strip out all of your speed modifers on a lower alt.. wowzers.. this is what mod 16 feels like.. like we are retrogressing a ton. There were so many speed buffs as it stands now..
    >
    > It annoys me to know end. WHY YOU MAKE US SO SLOW BRO'?

    I took great pride in aiming to maximize my movement speed.
    I played just to find items to bolster my mobility... now it's All gone..

    Items enchantments artifacts... gone
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • eliasar#2396 eliasar Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    While I understand you pain, I would be rather more concerned about usefullness of our rogue class in general. Right now on preview, I see none.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    While I understand you pain, I would be rather more concerned about usefullness of our rogue class in general. Right now on preview, I see none.

    dont worry about that, we are all equally useless. at least the last time i took a look
  • duchess#7443 duchess Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    Yes, new to the forum and nw, just reading what the players are saying about module 16, the good, the bad, it’s opnions of players that I want to know and playing the game with my eyes open to it
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    leonidrex said:

    leonidrex said:

    I’m hoping that the players would give mod 16 a chance, see how their classes would be, I know that the preview servers are having trouble with bugs but when it finally goes live on the 23rd, NW will have fixed it 😊

    you new around here, arent you ?


    I wonder if players on PSN and MS can request that these companies deny Cryptic the right to upgrade our version with mod 16 since it not actually a game update but a new game given its a complete change to the game core mechanics.

    Mod 16 is clearly an update, not a new game ... so Sony and Microsoft aren't even going to entertain this.

    But every module we get this "Oh no, you are changing my favorite class. Can't we just keep this Mod forever?" The answer is always the same .... The player base wants new content and Cryptic needs new things to sell for zen. Each module represents a huge amount of time and manpower (and of course money) invested by Cryptic in the game - and they hope to get that back in zen sales during that module. On PC we have already reached the point where everyone is either finished the AI campaign or just tired of running it .... it's time for new content.
    It is not an update; it is a complete remake of the game. It is not NWO, it is NWO2. Game is not even the same.

    Also I am entitled as a gamer, go ask Bioware and what happens when entitled players get what they want. They become happy gamers and continue to support your product. This happend with Mass Effect 3; players were upset with how Bioware ended that series, so gamers got together and Bioware took notice and made a patch to resolve the issue of how the story ended.

    With that said, I have spent much more money on NWO and therefore I feel that Cryptic should hear me and all players out, especially those of us who dislike the changes to the class and combat. They should listen to us and do what they can to appease us as their consumers. After all, we as the consumer is what is keeping NWO afloat.

    Will Cryptic bend to our will; maybe not now or for a month or two or even three. But if enough players QUIT and their profit level drops dramatically, they will make changes by adding complexity back into the game and improve combat back to the level it is now in mod 15. We won't know until 3-6 months out if this will be done or not. IMO, it will be given how bad combat is and how there is no complexity now to designing a character. Even Anthem as a loot shooter has more complexity than NWO does in mod 16 and that is not a good sign as NWO is a RPGMMO and not a loot shooter.

    The issue with the game is that the end game players and I am one of them are god like, you cant die I did Ravenloft last night and we go through dungeons with no issues. Some of these Dungeons should be somewhat hard. I would like the feats to stay but I am ok with Life steal and Recovery going away. God like toons have no fun value at all.
    most people say they are invincible godline, yet almost nobody did KTeam Ravenloft, do it and tell me you are invincible.
    Come on, Kteam Ravenloft is one thing in the game ONE... Everyday stuff is different and you know this.
    false logic my friend. I do know this but you must see my point. the fact that we are too strong for most things is apparent, but butchering a game is not the answear.
    add diminishing to recovery, cap lifesteal in similar fashion to PoE, where lifesteal heals you OVER time, and is capped at % max hp/s . severity would increase that cap.
    the only way to make things work is 1 Add diminishing returns. and 2 make penetrations, penetrate % of defences.
    example. I have 50% damage res.
    Enemy has 50% armor pen. So he penetrates 50% of my 50% defence meaning he gets throught 25%, meaning i take 75% damage.
    Currently we reach a cap and are done, this way every % matters, but matters less and less as it SHOULD BE.
    The thing is, they cant really make things actually hard, bugs prevent it. I did CR Kteam, and let me tell you, its the bugs that got me more then actually fights being hard.
    Keam CR is tought, and i would argue that there is a way for other things to make them tought too. but the mod 16 is wrong execution.
    Content is not designed for max IL players; it is designed for players who are between mid to high end IL to complete content. All MMOs I play tend to do this as that is where most players sit. True max players will always find new content easy. Very common issue in all MMOs I have played.

    A few mmos offer true difficult content that typically results in elite players whining about its difficultly because it is TOO HARD. The devs than modify said content and it become to easy. That is the problem with a game where you are not playing alone. You are dependent on your team and if your team is below average things will flop fairly easily. This is why even the toughest and best content is typically made easier.

    Since NWO is a more casual game so almost all content will be designed for the average player.


    The KTeam of CR is one of the best example of why developing truly hard content is not needed. Its not needed because most players cannot complete hard content. In fact, those wanting hard content will be the first to come here and say its to hard. I've seen it in other games. Also, did you do CR KTeam? My guess is most of the players wanting hard content did not try it, because these players want slightly harder content but not truly hard challenging content. There is a difference.

    As for mod 16, it is what it is; an update to make it easier for the small staff that is going to run NWO going forward. That is what the update is designed around. Mod 16 though is causing more issues than its resolving and that is not a good thing, especially if players try to go back and complete lower content.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2019


    As for mod 16, it is what it is; an update to make it easier for the small staff that is going to run NWO going forward. That is what the update is designed around. Mod 16 though is causing more issues than its resolving and that is not a good thing, especially if players try to go back and complete lower content.

    "if" we try to go back? Sure, players can farm LoMM a bit and do up to 3 expeditions per day, but what then? If you have any time left, you *have* to go back.

    Also, the Challenge Campaigns require you to go back - and they are worth doing - even just to get the tokens you need to buy the new rank 7 stones.

    Change the "if" to "when" and I'll agree with you ;)
    Hoping for improvements...
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    Mod 16 Preview.
    I wrote a haiku about it.
    Like to hear it? Here it go...

    Dark cloud on blue sky.
    Cherry blossom petal falls.
    Ennui in the wind.
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    adinosii said:


    As for mod 16, it is what it is; an update to make it easier for the small staff that is going to run NWO going forward. That is what the update is designed around. Mod 16 though is causing more issues than its resolving and that is not a good thing, especially if players try to go back and complete lower content.

    "if" we try to go back? Sure, players can farm LoMM a bit and do up to 3 expeditions per day, but what then? If you have any time left, you *have* to go back.

    Also, the Challenge Campaigns require you to go back - and they are worth doing - even just to get the tokens you need to buy the new rank 7 stones.

    Change the "if" to "when" and I'll agree with you ;)
    I said IF and not when because everyone I talk to that is still playing NWO right now plans to go play ESO come June on console. If they played on PC they would already be leaving. That should tell you something.

    I am going to try mod 16 and if it to tedious with my wizard than I'm done and will do a NWO give away in PE on PS4.
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    KTeam is, quite frankly, a terrible example to haul out as "difficult", as regardless of your item level, you're scaled back to 'minimum' scores. 20k ilevel? 18k? 15k? Not in Kteam. You're set to the lowest bar - and the scaling is already so arbitrary, you're not sure if your weapon / armor enchant will be working, or what level your enchants are getting set to. The difficulty is from a lack of information as it is from the reduced ilevel. If it said upfront "KT CR - enchants set to r9, insignia set to green, artifacts only provide 75% of stats" - that's useful, and you can work that into your calculations. As it is, the scaling is a black box of mystery.

    Tales of the Old was a better bar to compare against - your stats weren't reduced (save for run 5, and it's made very clear what gets cut - Power / Defence, -50%). Even that wasn't a huge challenge for endgame groups. Time consuming, yes, but as long as players weren't pants-on-head stupid about things, pretty manageable. You also knew exactly what the limitations were for each run.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    cdnbison said:

    KTeam is, quite frankly, a terrible example to haul out as "difficult", as regardless of your item level, you're scaled back to 'minimum' scores. 20k ilevel? 18k? 15k? Not in Kteam. You're set to the lowest bar - and the scaling is already so arbitrary, you're not sure if your weapon / armor enchant will be working, or what level your enchants are getting set to. The difficulty is from a lack of information as it is from the reduced ilevel. If it said upfront "KT CR - enchants set to r9, insignia set to green, artifacts only provide 75% of stats" - that's useful, and you can work that into your calculations. As it is, the scaling is a black box of mystery.

    Tales of the Old was a better bar to compare against - your stats weren't reduced (save for run 5, and it's made very clear what gets cut - Power / Defence, -50%). Even that wasn't a huge challenge for endgame groups. Time consuming, yes, but as long as players weren't pants-on-head stupid about things, pretty manageable. You also knew exactly what the limitations were for each run.

    You just proved my point, players don't like true challenges, period. You take away X and they complain. You take away Y and they complain. Instead of wanting a true challenge where there is a high risk, most player are risk averse and it is why content cannot be created to be challenging, players don't really enjoy a TRUE challenge. A true challenge you won't know how your stat are impact, if you get XYZ buff or not, etc.. the less info you have the harder and more challenging the content will be and that is why KTeam is a better challenge than Tales of Old.

    I played games where you had zero pick up, if you died you were out of the fight. So if you loss your DPS during the first boss, you had to exit the content and start over from square one. That was a good challenge but to many players cried in that game and the devs designed it so that you get one death with one pick up on each boss and anything in between did not matter. That kinda took the challenge away from that game.

    I'm a firm believe that devs can create a standard end game dungeon like we get today. Than create an EPIC/MASTER dungeon where we do reduced damage, enemies have more HP, etc... than the gear at the end provides the same stats as the gear we get in the standard dungeon but it also gets bonus stats. For example a wizard hands could have a bonus stat that would stat such as each critical strike has a chance to cause your enemies to be chilled or another feature for that class. Other gear could trigger and encounter that you don't even use for added damage.

    The problem is that this game you don't need that gear because content is to easy as it is and even hard content is not that hard if you know mechanics. The problem is scrolls have allowed many players to forgo learning mechanics. I have seen an easy T9 run where players burn through 10+ scrolls for no reason. I got into a Random Q for CoDG today; I died once and my Soul Forge got me up. Another player also using the soul forge enchantment died 28 times and used 14+ scrolls in a 15 minute CoDG.

    That player just sat in the red and eat the hits, scrolled,, etc.. this is a very big problem and I don't even think mod 16 update will fix this, players will continue to scroll their way through this game.

    My last 5 CR runs I used a total of 1 scroll and had a total of 2 deaths. CR isn't as bad as everyone makes it if everyones plays to the mechanics.

    Content should have a mechanic check and if you fail you get an automatic kick from the group. I rather take along players that are willing to learn and do mechanics than those that scroll their way through content just to beat it.
  • feanor70118feanor70118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    Mod 16 is upon us in one week and so far:

    1) Class balance is, as usual, a joke.
    2) Scaling is not ready.
    3) None of the remaining mess from mod 15 has been fixed.
    4) The new combat system looks slow and awful.
    5) Divisions between paragon paths are much too severe and make little or no sense.
    6) The new power trees are full of mystifying and nonsensical decisions.

    Just push it back, devs. You don't have to release another mod 6-type disaster and there's every reason to believe that's exactly what mod 16 is.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    I can't show this mod any love. I just can't. The devs think that it's all just a matter of turning dials. IMO they couldn't be more wrong. From my standpoint the problem is a fundamental lack of understanding of why people play D&D in the first place.

    One thing that comes to mind was from a comment from a dev some months ago. Ever since Mod 6, I've been harping on the fact that a number of areas in existing dungeons (that are still there to this day) are blocked off for no good reason. His response amounted to, "why do you want them opened up? there's no loot there". I see this as a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to adventure and to be an adventurer. Adventuring means finding the unknown, the out-of-the-ordinary, the thing, critter, place, or story that you haven't seen before. That is why anyone adventures in the first place. It told me that the entire notion of adventuring was lost on that particular dev.

    Another area of concern involves the removal of the Foundry. I understand the technical issues (undocumented code, brain drain, etc.) There's more to that, however. The notion of story is inseparable from any adventure. Mindlessly playing whack-an-orc isn't an adventure. It isn't an adventure until there is some underlying story behind it, some purpose for going after those orcs in the first place. In my experience, when my friends play AD&D, it's not the fight per se that gives them the most enjoyment; it's defeating a villian who they have, through storytelling by the DM learned to loathe, despise, and hate. You can't have an adventure without a compelling story and compelling characters, and no offense to the devs, but they lack the time to create as many compelling stories as a motivated playerbase. Of course, just as any plant needs sunlight and water, a motivated group of player storytellers needs an ecosystem of players who are willing to run those stories, something that has been absent for years through no fault of their own. In the end, to me this shows a fundamental lack of understanding by the devs as to what makes heroic fantasy compelling and why Dungeons and Dragons remains popular.

    Long story short, from my standpoint it simply looks like the game's designers "just don't get it". I can't help but wonder if they simply aren't or weren't pen-and-paper D&D players. To me that would be a real problem.
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  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User

    Mod 16 is upon us in one week and so far:

    1) Class balance is, as usual, a joke.
    2) Scaling is not ready.
    3) None of the remaining mess from mod 15 has been fixed.
    4) The new combat system looks slow and awful.
    5) Divisions between paragon paths are much too severe and make little or no sense.
    6) The new power trees are full of mystifying and nonsensical decisions.

    Just push it back, devs. You don't have to release another mod 6-type disaster and there's every reason to believe that's exactly what mod 16 is.

    I wonder where are the people that said, ITS JUST PREVIEW, EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED. are.
    Dont see them no more, but hey. apparently 90% of us is happy with mod 16, yet when i log on, out of 10+ people I usually see in the guild im the only one, and out of 50+ people in friends list at all times there is mb 5, people SURE are excited to see the new mod.
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    leonidrex said:

    I wonder where are the people that said, ITS JUST PREVIEW, EVERYTHING WILL BE FIXED. are.
    Dont see them no more, but hey. apparently 90% of us is happy with mod 16, yet when i log on, out of 10+ people I usually see in the guild im the only one, and out of 50+ people in friends list at all times there is mb 5, people SURE are excited to see the new mod.

    There are actually people who are really excited about Mod 16. Not many, but they do exist. Most of them do not really know what it is like - have not been to Preview, but some do. (Well, I have only talked to one, but his view was that his favourite class in D&D is the Cleric, and he has never been happy that they are not wanted for healing. "Now I can heal" was a huge positive for him. (He might end up disappointed if people prefer Paladin healers as they offer more damage mitigation or Warlock healers as they have better DPS, though).

    There are some that absolutely hate M16 and may leave because of it, but most people fall between those extremes - like some parts of it and dislike others.

    My personal position is "This too shall pass". I will do my best to avoid the "bad" parts and focus on the rest, while keeping my eyes open for other games that might be more enjoyable for me.
    • Combat is slower, more mechanical and a lot less fun than it used to be. What I will do is to completely shelve 15 of my 16 characters and only play my overgeared main, where the slowdown is least irritating.
    • Scaling (capping) is a badly designed, broken mess. What I will do is just to focus on L80 content, where there is no scaling. With combat being slower, I figure that just doing 3 expeditions per day as well as the occasional LoMM run will be all I do. Yes, I will probably do the weekly challenge campaign quests too, but that's it. I will have more free time to spend on other things.
    • I do not like the changes to my class, which are pushing me into playing a healer, so I will just stick to the cleric DPS path - only switch to a healer if my guild badly needs one for a guild run.
    So, that's the plan....minimize the inconvenience and annoyance, until either the game is improved or a better game is released.
    Hoping for improvements...
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