test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Why is no one listening?

12346»

Comments

  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    krumple01 said:

    I just don't buy this argument that they are purposely trying to get rid of players for MTG.

    For a company that runs multiple multi-player games it doesn't seem logical to force out one of their games and if this were the case it gives them bad reputation. IF we are being forced out of NW through making the game less and less fun why would we be inclined to try out MTG when it comes out?

    I just don't buy this argument. I think they are trying to stream line the code which ultimately means stream lining the features too. They are doing this so they can put less labor into changes, tweaks, or balancing. This makes more sense to me. Unfortunately it does have a side effect that causes players to leave.

    Cryptic is in an okay position since they have multiple games bringing them revenue that if one of their games hits a low point in revenue they don't immediately jump ship like a developer would that only has a single game for their income. My point being that I believe they are not concerned at all if players get upset with the changes and leave. In fact I bet they did a cost benefit analysis of this and perhaps they have the numbers but if 60% leave they are fine with that. I dunno the actual numbers but I can see this being the case that they are really not concerned. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

    It's not "trying to get rid" of certain players.
    It is favoring certain player demographics over others.
    It's called Market Segmentation...
    ... one second... paging Translator Took-Bot.

    Market segmentation is the process of dividing a market of potential customers into groups, or segments, based on different characteristics. The segments created are composed of consumers who will respond similarly to marketing strategies and who share traits such as similar interests, needs and spending habits.
    Beep Boop.


    In this case, making the game more appealing to new and low-geared players.
    This type of Market Segmentation would only make good business sense if that segment increases overall revenue...
    That last part is unclear.
    This is probably the best overall summary of what they are aiming at. New blood is always necessary. And they obviously feel enough of the old blood will stay regardless of what they do. The problem of course is that if too many of the old blood leaves, and queues for randoms dry up, then this will only encourage more old blood to leave, etc etc.

    Some games have enough population to survive this initial rough period but once you get that downward spiral ....
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    havlocke said:

    krumple01 said:

    I just don't buy this argument that they are purposely trying to get rid of players for MTG.

    For a company that runs multiple multi-player games it doesn't seem logical to force out one of their games and if this were the case it gives them bad reputation. IF we are being forced out of NW through making the game less and less fun why would we be inclined to try out MTG when it comes out?

    I just don't buy this argument. I think they are trying to stream line the code which ultimately means stream lining the features too. They are doing this so they can put less labor into changes, tweaks, or balancing. This makes more sense to me. Unfortunately it does have a side effect that causes players to leave.

    Cryptic is in an okay position since they have multiple games bringing them revenue that if one of their games hits a low point in revenue they don't immediately jump ship like a developer would that only has a single game for their income. My point being that I believe they are not concerned at all if players get upset with the changes and leave. In fact I bet they did a cost benefit analysis of this and perhaps they have the numbers but if 60% leave they are fine with that. I dunno the actual numbers but I can see this being the case that they are really not concerned. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

    It's not "trying to get rid" of certain players.
    It is favoring certain player demographics over others.
    It's called Market Segmentation...
    ... one second... paging Translator Took-Bot.

    Market segmentation is the process of dividing a market of potential customers into groups, or segments, based on different characteristics. The segments created are composed of consumers who will respond similarly to marketing strategies and who share traits such as similar interests, needs and spending habits.
    Beep Boop.


    In this case, making the game more appealing to new and low-geared players.
    This type of Market Segmentation would only make good business sense if that segment increases overall revenue...
    That last part is unclear.
    This is probably the best overall summary of what they are aiming at. New blood is always necessary. And they obviously feel enough of the old blood will stay regardless of what they do. The problem of course is that if too many of the old blood leaves, and queues for randoms dry up, then this will only encourage more old blood to leave, etc etc.

    Some games have enough population to survive this initial rough period but once you get that downward spiral ....
    No, I don't think Cryptic is trying to get rid of some player groups.

    But I don't think they care if the veteran player groups leave either. Most of the income probably is from the stream of casuals joining game, playing a few months and leaving. So it is their experience Cryptic seeks to improve.
  • havlockehavlocke Member Posts: 222 Arc User

    havlocke said:

    krumple01 said:

    I just don't buy this argument that they are purposely trying to get rid of players for MTG.

    For a company that runs multiple multi-player games it doesn't seem logical to force out one of their games and if this were the case it gives them bad reputation. IF we are being forced out of NW through making the game less and less fun why would we be inclined to try out MTG when it comes out?

    I just don't buy this argument. I think they are trying to stream line the code which ultimately means stream lining the features too. They are doing this so they can put less labor into changes, tweaks, or balancing. This makes more sense to me. Unfortunately it does have a side effect that causes players to leave.

    Cryptic is in an okay position since they have multiple games bringing them revenue that if one of their games hits a low point in revenue they don't immediately jump ship like a developer would that only has a single game for their income. My point being that I believe they are not concerned at all if players get upset with the changes and leave. In fact I bet they did a cost benefit analysis of this and perhaps they have the numbers but if 60% leave they are fine with that. I dunno the actual numbers but I can see this being the case that they are really not concerned. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

    It's not "trying to get rid" of certain players.
    It is favoring certain player demographics over others.
    It's called Market Segmentation...
    ... one second... paging Translator Took-Bot.

    Market segmentation is the process of dividing a market of potential customers into groups, or segments, based on different characteristics. The segments created are composed of consumers who will respond similarly to marketing strategies and who share traits such as similar interests, needs and spending habits.
    Beep Boop.


    In this case, making the game more appealing to new and low-geared players.
    This type of Market Segmentation would only make good business sense if that segment increases overall revenue...
    That last part is unclear.
    This is probably the best overall summary of what they are aiming at. New blood is always necessary. And they obviously feel enough of the old blood will stay regardless of what they do. The problem of course is that if too many of the old blood leaves, and queues for randoms dry up, then this will only encourage more old blood to leave, etc etc.

    Some games have enough population to survive this initial rough period but once you get that downward spiral ....
    No, I don't think Cryptic is trying to get rid of some player groups.

    But I don't think they care if the veteran player groups leave either. Most of the income probably is from the stream of casuals joining game, playing a few months and leaving. So it is their experience Cryptic seeks to improve.
    That's kind of what I was saying. They EXPECT to lose some veteran groups. But they are hoping the new blood will take up the slack. The problem here is if the Veterans that leave the game put too big a hole in things like Queues and Open world stuff (like Dragon Runs) which may cause those who weren't going to leave because of Mod16 to leave because of longer queues, thus starting a downward spiral.
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User

    havlocke said:

    krumple01 said:

    I just don't buy this argument that they are purposely trying to get rid of players for MTG.

    For a company that runs multiple multi-player games it doesn't seem logical to force out one of their games and if this were the case it gives them bad reputation. IF we are being forced out of NW through making the game less and less fun why would we be inclined to try out MTG when it comes out?

    I just don't buy this argument. I think they are trying to stream line the code which ultimately means stream lining the features too. They are doing this so they can put less labor into changes, tweaks, or balancing. This makes more sense to me. Unfortunately it does have a side effect that causes players to leave.

    Cryptic is in an okay position since they have multiple games bringing them revenue that if one of their games hits a low point in revenue they don't immediately jump ship like a developer would that only has a single game for their income. My point being that I believe they are not concerned at all if players get upset with the changes and leave. In fact I bet they did a cost benefit analysis of this and perhaps they have the numbers but if 60% leave they are fine with that. I dunno the actual numbers but I can see this being the case that they are really not concerned. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

    It's not "trying to get rid" of certain players.
    It is favoring certain player demographics over others.
    It's called Market Segmentation...
    ... one second... paging Translator Took-Bot.

    Market segmentation is the process of dividing a market of potential customers into groups, or segments, based on different characteristics. The segments created are composed of consumers who will respond similarly to marketing strategies and who share traits such as similar interests, needs and spending habits.
    Beep Boop.


    In this case, making the game more appealing to new and low-geared players.
    This type of Market Segmentation would only make good business sense if that segment increases overall revenue...
    That last part is unclear.
    This is probably the best overall summary of what they are aiming at. New blood is always necessary. And they obviously feel enough of the old blood will stay regardless of what they do. The problem of course is that if too many of the old blood leaves, and queues for randoms dry up, then this will only encourage more old blood to leave, etc etc.

    Some games have enough population to survive this initial rough period but once you get that downward spiral ....
    No, I don't think Cryptic is trying to get rid of some player groups.

    But I don't think they care if the veteran player groups leave either. Most of the income probably is from the stream of casuals joining game, playing a few months and leaving. So it is their experience Cryptic seeks to improve.
    I hate to say it but I have to grudgingly agree. After enough years we start to reach the point where we have everything we want. Zen mounts are account-wide so we don't have to buy more. Spare companions and mounts pile up over time, as do consumables like Stones of Health. Do enough IG runs and companion gear piles up. At this point the things I buy the most are keys and wards, as I've got *years* of VIP remaining. So at some point they do have to incentivize new players into buying stuff.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • lantern22lantern22 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,080 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    I hate to say it but I have to grudgingly agree. After enough years we start to reach the point where we have everything we want. Zen mounts are account-wide so we don't have to buy more. Spare companions and mounts pile up over time, as do consumables like Stones of Health. Do enough IG runs and companion gear piles up. At this point the things I buy the most are keys and wards, as I've got *years* of VIP remaining. So at some point they do have to incentivize new players into buying stuff.

    Fashion items, that don't suck, is one solution.

    I'm still wearing the Waterdhavian gear cause I don't like much else. Desperate for a half decent looking shield for my guardian fighter.

    Mount skins!!!!!! - I really like the look of the Tensers disk, but the stats don't work - let me buy the skin . . . . .

    Companion skins . . . . . .

    and none of it adds to Power creep
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,606 Arc User
    With the changes they made to the stable system every mount you get is a skin, a stat block, insignia options, if Leg it comes with a combat power.
    I have something to say. It's better to burn out, than fade away!
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    Despite all the facts that get made up due to lack of information because we don't get told everything?

    So its just made up that they didnt say anything about the missing enchant vendor after the last patch? Sure...its all made up and they never lacked about giving us informations....ur right. Im sry.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,606 Arc User
    You making assumptions when you don't get information is on YOU. Not them.

    They have a little over a week at this point before M16 goes live. Sitting on the forums and answering questions at this point is not a priority, however much you demand it.
    I have something to say. It's better to burn out, than fade away!
  • wylonuswylonus Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,360 Arc User
    busiest week before mod date release, they are tired, spend many hours and not enough sleep time.

    call it "frenetic time", so many "last minutes checks"
  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    I generally like the *content* of M16, it's ok (6.5 out of 10), not over the top, not a joke like m15's content was, and artistically visually appealing.

    Where it really felt like the game took a head first dive into a dumpster was the new Wizard (which is supposed to be one of the classes in a "better state" atm). I main CW, I love Wizards and Sorcerers and all kinda spellslingers in different games, and CW on live is in a good place, even if it's not the best dps, it has a level of complexity to it that actually makes you feel like you've mastered the arcane arts when you get your build right. On Preview it's just a McMenu of empty calories and maybe you want fries with that. There is zero complexity to building or playing a Wizard. While with other classes like Fighters who mostly just swing their swords and hold their shields typically in 3.5e and 5e, they got feats like "Whirlwind Attack" or different features based on your "Martial Archetype" which where never very numerous to begin with, the reduction of powers and feats doesn't seem as impactful to the feel of the class. But idk, I only really play CW.

    In short, I liked the level of complexity that is currently in the game, it makes you think about your buffs, and debuffs, and are they up before you unleash your rotation, it makes you read the (sometimes broken) tooltips and either test stuff or rely on testers to make decisions about how you progress your character. This is fun and interesting to me. The loss of this type of gameplay is pretty much a show stopper for me, I've already moved on to other games that provide this for me and are not all that different in style, just lack "D&D" in their names. So yeah, it's not totally the programmers faults, but whoever is making design decisions for game, I guess they are developers too, that's just semantics.

  • axyremaxyrem Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    If they dont listen to the veterans and MOD 16 fails as these experienced players expect, i will just play Grim Dawn, Diablo 3, GW 2, Swtor or any other game i have installed on my computer.

    The managers of this game already show their attitude with this $200 Pack with a mount and some stuff.....

    Why bother if these people suffer from megalomania?
    Post edited by axyrem on
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    Last stream and last patch showed how much devs listen. @any mod:
    Plz close this thred. Its so senseless....its obvious you try to kill the game and you give a ... about the players. Cya and all of you good luck.
  • levdbronsteinlevdbronstein Member Posts: 67 Arc User
    kvet said:

    Keep in mind, we had hundreds of possible HAMSTER builds per class and maybe 1 or 2 actual viable builds so despite all the so-called "options" most players had cookie cutter builds anyway because that's how it needed to be to have a viable end-game character (or because with so many random options it was hard to know what to choose so people used guides... either way, it amounts to the same result). Now, with less choice you have at least 2 viable builds per class, maybe even as many as 4 (though the distinction between same-path builds will be very small). Less choice, yes, but more viable classes options.

    The whole argument about class customization is silly. Pre-m16 if you didn't choose very specific options you might be good enough for solo levelling and grinding, but you'd *always* be a drag in endgame play. Always. You might make it through due to skill, or due to being carried (whether you realized it or not) but with an unoptimized build, you would be a drag on your team. It's no different in m16, but they have (mostly) removed the useless choices. The reduction in options is just an illusion here, and in fact, they improved the viability of what options we do have, thus making MORE of the options you can choose result in viable characters.

    It sounds paradoxical, but they have, in fact, increased our viable options by reducing the number of available selections. People are all hung up on the reduction without really recognizing the bigger picture.

    Ah, the old the-choices-were-bad-so-let's-get-rid-of-choice argument: that chestnut never gets old. The claim that there is *more* choice as a consequence of this mess is, frankly, ridiculous. The community called for class balancing and what they got was the gutting of choice.

    The fact of the matter is that this is yet another example of the devs eliminating something under the guise of improving it.

    Problems with the Gateway? Ditch it. Foundry issues? Later, Foundry. Difficult to upgrade dungeons to account for power creep/level increases? See ya. Issues with balancing class paths? Toss the viable builds out with the unviable build bathwater.

    Someone on Reddit suggested that the devs appeared to want to change NW into a mobile-phone game and I think they hit the nail on the head.
  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User

    One more to complain, me....
    I came into the game in October last year as a new and green player, rolled 2 characters and got them up to lvl 70.
    Now there is a new big patch coming, mod 16, and a new lvl cap, lvl 80. Now I'm grinding with only one character to get it up to a decent item level (now at il 11k), lots of work here.......

    I have been skimming around in the forums and there are lots of players complaining about the dev's not listening to the players regarding this new mod.

    I'm beginning to wonder if it's the elite players that are online 24/7, spend huge amount of real money in game that the dev's are listening to, not us the casual players that are online a few hours a week and do not have the opportunity to spend lots of real money in the game,. Well, this is just a thought.

    I started this game on PS4 and I was once upon a time a new player; there were things that upset do to time and money or more time to get a character at end game. Move forward 30 months and I had 3 end game characters with my GF being the lowest around 17.5K do to lower IL gear and not having a legendary mount; otherwise all of my character would have been 18K+.

    Yeah it was annoying the first year as I learned the game and had to get accustom to being average or below average. The 2nd year with a bit of grinding and with some money I went from lowly 13K to 15K and eventually 17K+ on three character. I loved all 3 and enjoyed the mechanics of all three.

    Mod 16 changed that and now I'm only playing one character and may not even stick around when mod 16 lands. The biggest issue I have is the removal of character customization. We went from having a variety of abilities points to select down to a single one and even than they are not all optimal given how the stats work now in mod 16. Next is the major change to feats; we went from having 61 points for feats and on average most players had around 14 or 15 selected feats. Instead the new system we get to pick 5 of the possible 10. We went from having 14+ feats at 70 down to 5 at 80.

    Next big issue is that zones, dungeons, etc scale players stats making higher gear/stat players less effective in lower zones. In fact the scaling is horrible ATM and I don't see that getting fixed properly any time soon. The only way scaling is effective from my experience is if GEAR only is scaled to the zone, not added items such as enchantments, insignia, etc.. With the current setup in mod 16 once a end game player hits 80, they won't want to run anything that is not 80 because it won't be worth there time or effort do to scaling and the fact they lose their power.

    Both of these issues are not D&D in any way or form and that is why I'm against the devs reducting customization and scaling. In D&D if you fight a level 1 kobold at level 1 they are tough and give you a proper challenge, but once you hit level 10 in D&D that same kobold does not present the same level of challenge as you have increased in strength and power, that kobold is now much weaker and you as the player can easily take them down, in fact they are more likely not going to bother with you do to how powerful you. As for customization that has always been a hallmark of D&D; even when things were simple with 4 classes you still had customization on your character stats.

    The other thing is that the game went from engaging with encounters and fast pace to slow and tedious. Combat now takes longer and feels drawn out for no reason what so ever other than because the devs wanted it to be like that. And the end results is what use to take 10-15 minutes now can take 30+ minutes making it so we are less likely to play ALT or spend money on our ALT.

    Everything about this mod screams we are making NWO not for adults but for the younger generation that wants stuff to be easy. That is how it feels, like the devs are trying to make the game appeal to kids and not adults.
    Hmm, that's an interesting conclusion to draw, considering what you say in the last paragraph just before you claim they're making it easier. You describe something that I would categorize as tedious and then claim it's making things easier? While tedium and hard aren't synonyms, tedium certainly isn't "easy" either. In fact, from what I've read around the various forums, it seems like it's actually making it harder? There was a video of a solo player getting owned in a situation they stated they could have cleaned up before the update, so I'm not at all sure what to believe now.

    Although I do believe there are some clues to what's up in your post, where you discuss the kobold. So the issue, it would seem, is that people aren't going to be roflstomping early content on their max level toons, and they're irate?
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • robertthebardrobertthebard Member Posts: 543 Arc User

    kvet said:

    Keep in mind, we had hundreds of possible HAMSTER builds per class and maybe 1 or 2 actual viable builds so despite all the so-called "options" most players had cookie cutter builds anyway because that's how it needed to be to have a viable end-game character (or because with so many random options it was hard to know what to choose so people used guides... either way, it amounts to the same result). Now, with less choice you have at least 2 viable builds per class, maybe even as many as 4 (though the distinction between same-path builds will be very small). Less choice, yes, but more viable classes options.

    The whole argument about class customization is silly. Pre-m16 if you didn't choose very specific options you might be good enough for solo levelling and grinding, but you'd *always* be a drag in endgame play. Always. You might make it through due to skill, or due to being carried (whether you realized it or not) but with an unoptimized build, you would be a drag on your team. It's no different in m16, but they have (mostly) removed the useless choices. The reduction in options is just an illusion here, and in fact, they improved the viability of what options we do have, thus making MORE of the options you can choose result in viable characters.

    It sounds paradoxical, but they have, in fact, increased our viable options by reducing the number of available selections. People are all hung up on the reduction without really recognizing the bigger picture.

    Ah, the old the-choices-were-bad-so-let's-get-rid-of-choice argument: that chestnut never gets old. The claim that there is *more* choice as a consequence of this mess is, frankly, ridiculous. The community called for class balancing and what they got was the gutting of choice.

    The fact of the matter is that this is yet another example of the devs eliminating something under the guise of improving it.

    Problems with the Gateway? Ditch it. Foundry issues? Later, Foundry. Difficult to upgrade dungeons to account for power creep/level increases? See ya. Issues with balancing class paths? Toss the viable builds out with the unviable build bathwater.

    Someone on Reddit suggested that the devs appeared to want to change NW into a mobile-phone game and I think they hit the nail on the head.
    I have to wonder if they're not far from right though. How much build flexibility does your playstyle allow for in endgame content? While I'm no expert here, I've been in plenty of MMO endgames where if you're not running x build for y class, you're considered gimp, and if you're not kicked from the group, you won't be getting in any more groups with those players as leaders, since you'll be blacklisted. It comes back to "you have plenty of choices, do it like we say, or go play by yourself".

    Contrary to what some endgame players might believe, some of those players they're alienating won't stick around and swap their builds to suit someone else, especially if what they're currently playing has been working. So I'd say that, if they did in fact cut out some of the "worthless" choices, and what's left are all viable for endgame, they did, in some cases, increase what's available to play in endgame. I won't touch toxicity, because frankly reading the forums concerning these upcoming changes, I've seen a ton of it, but oddly enough, none from people that are in a wait and see mode, but from players that are upset that they may not be able to just roflstomp everything in their path in lower level zones.
    Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,138 Arc User

    kvet said:

    Keep in mind, we had hundreds of possible HAMSTER builds per class and maybe 1 or 2 actual viable builds so despite all the so-called "options" most players had cookie cutter builds anyway because that's how it needed to be to have a viable end-game character (or because with so many random options it was hard to know what to choose so people used guides... either way, it amounts to the same result). Now, with less choice you have at least 2 viable builds per class, maybe even as many as 4 (though the distinction between same-path builds will be very small). Less choice, yes, but more viable classes options.

    The whole argument about class customization is silly. Pre-m16 if you didn't choose very specific options you might be good enough for solo levelling and grinding, but you'd *always* be a drag in endgame play. Always. You might make it through due to skill, or due to being carried (whether you realized it or not) but with an unoptimized build, you would be a drag on your team. It's no different in m16, but they have (mostly) removed the useless choices. The reduction in options is just an illusion here, and in fact, they improved the viability of what options we do have, thus making MORE of the options you can choose result in viable characters.

    It sounds paradoxical, but they have, in fact, increased our viable options by reducing the number of available selections. People are all hung up on the reduction without really recognizing the bigger picture.

    Ah, the old the-choices-were-bad-so-let's-get-rid-of-choice argument: that chestnut never gets old. The claim that there is *more* choice as a consequence of this mess is, frankly, ridiculous. The community called for class balancing and what they got was the gutting of choice.

    The fact of the matter is that this is yet another example of the devs eliminating something under the guise of improving it.

    Problems with the Gateway? Ditch it. Foundry issues? Later, Foundry. Difficult to upgrade dungeons to account for power creep/level increases? See ya. Issues with balancing class paths? Toss the viable builds out with the unviable build bathwater.

    Someone on Reddit suggested that the devs appeared to want to change NW into a mobile-phone game and I think they hit the nail on the head.
    I have to wonder if they're not far from right though. How much build flexibility does your playstyle allow for in endgame content? While I'm no expert here, I've been in plenty of MMO endgames where if you're not running x build for y class, you're considered gimp, and if you're not kicked from the group, you won't be getting in any more groups with those players as leaders, since you'll be blacklisted. It comes back to "you have plenty of choices, do it like we say, or go play by yourself".

    Contrary to what some endgame players might believe, some of those players they're alienating won't stick around and swap their builds to suit someone else, especially if what they're currently playing has been working. So I'd say that, if they did in fact cut out some of the "worthless" choices, and what's left are all viable for endgame, they did, in some cases, increase what's available to play in endgame. I won't touch toxicity, because frankly reading the forums concerning these upcoming changes, I've seen a ton of it, but oddly enough, none from people that are in a wait and see mode, but from players that are upset that they may not be able to just roflstomp everything in their path in lower level zones.
    Although this misses the point that only a small fraction of the playerbase even plays endgame. They're fixing a problem that only affects a relatively small vocal minority, meanwhile they completely mess up the scaling and alienate all the players that don't regularly do the endgame dungeons, but do older zone content and RIQ for ADs, and don't post on the forums.
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 888 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    The interesting thing for me is how many players have complained and threatened to leave after so many perceived major changes ie: loss of Gateway, AD cap X 2 or 3, elimination of salvage, professions rework, etc…. Yet just scanning through the forum most are apparently still playing and still posting… Usually with something else to complain about.

    Personally I’m to the point where those who seem to be so unhappy and threatening to leave would just go already… sorry, it’s not personal but as someone previously pointed out with all of the pessimistic vitriol, wildly negative speculation sometimes with little or no foundation, and attempts to point the ‘blame’ finger at this class of player – that class of player – devs, etc. it has become beyond old to the point of almost being comical.

    The only thing that stays the same anywhere is the likelihood of change… some for the good, which for some reason never seems to warrant much discussion and some not-so-good which seems to be talked to death. My initial impression prior to Mod6 was it was bringing great changes to Neverwinter where a lot of people complained almost incessantly and threatened to leave never to return or “spend another penny” on the game. Some did leave, some left and came back. Most who stayed (myself included) or came back most likely did spend more on the game, but like taking one’s hand out of a pail of water, the ripple effect of their decision whatever it may have been seems to be near negligible…

    Yet here we are about a dozen Mods later and hours away from Mod16 and it is almost like a cut and paste from every previous game modification… Complainers gonna’ complain, Wait and see’ers gonna’ wait and see and what the developers have put out there for truth may or may not be as bad (or good) as many speculate it will be.

    Me, I have mixed feelings about Mod16, mostly based on discussions here on the forum but I don’t have the level of hubris to believe for a second that my complaints or my preferences or even the complaints or preferences of several players, holds so much sway with the development team that any of their decisions will be effected simply based on player opinion -vs- what they tend to believe will be best for the continued survival of the game… and ultimately I personally believe that is what we all (players and developers) should be primarily concerned with - but usually for different reasons obviously.
    DD~
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,020 Arc User
    Personally, I don't care about the change one way or the other because I expect/hope I will be able to adapt whatever it will be. I always find a way and I am always patient.
    However, what I really care is not about myself but the people who I play with. Will they stay? Will they leave?
    It is not about what I am playing anymore. It is about whom I play with.
  • tholthertholther Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 113 Arc User
    I suppose the majority of the players will wait wait until the new Mod16 comes out, see what it is like for some time and, if it's as bad as people say in the forum, they will leave. Many will come back every now and then to see if something has changed. I hope that after some time -probably the next Mod17- the game will have sufficiently adapted to the necessities of the players so that many will be coming back. Hopefully.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 743 Arc User
    I have 700+ days of VIP to burn through still.

    Doesn't mean I will actively play every day, or week - but I'm logging in to claim my key daily, and do some basic invoking, at a minimum, for at least the next 2 + years I guess.

    If I don't like the quality of game play - I'll just sit on the sidelines and watch for future changes...because they are inevitable. And I will stick around to see what the new class looks like.
  • greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,606 Arc User
    Just keep in mind that "new class" may very well be a "new player race".
    I have something to say. It's better to burn out, than fade away!
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    dionchi said:

    The interesting thing for me is how many players have complained and threatened to leave after so many perceived major changes ie: loss of Gateway, AD cap X 2 or 3, elimination of salvage, professions rework, etc…. Yet just scanning through the forum most are apparently still playing and still posting… Usually with something else to complain about.

    Even if those 200-300 that actually reads these forums quit, it would barely show in their numbers. It is the constant influx of new players vs. player loss that matters.

    But it certainly is worrisome that the general mood is so negative. Usually comments before a mod are a bit more balanced.

    And it certainly is worrisome that there are so many unfortunate points in new mod:
    * Most of the build and play complexity removed (this was what made game interesting and a challenge)
    * Development curve made too flat (why build up a character if it has no effect?)
    * The rapid and fast combat turned into a slow wait-for-timer slog (NW used to have the best combat around)
    * Character development has no effect in old content because of scaling by capping (why build up a character if it has no effect?)

    The new campaign looks ok though, so I agree with @dionchi that most will play out the campaign, get level 80 and then see. In 2-3 weeks we'll see how bad the player loss is.
  • krumple01krumple01 Member Posts: 754 Arc User

    dionchi said:

    The interesting thing for me is how many players have complained and threatened to leave after so many perceived major changes ie: loss of Gateway, AD cap X 2 or 3, elimination of salvage, professions rework, etc…. Yet just scanning through the forum most are apparently still playing and still posting… Usually with something else to complain about.

    Even if those 200-300 that actually reads these forums quit, it would barely show in their numbers. It is the constant influx of new players vs. player loss that matters.

    But it certainly is worrisome that the general mood is so negative. Usually comments before a mod are a bit more balanced.

    And it certainly is worrisome that there are so many unfortunate points in new mod:
    * Most of the build and play complexity removed (this was what made game interesting and a challenge)
    * Development curve made too flat (why build up a character if it has no effect?)
    * The rapid and fast combat turned into a slow wait-for-timer slog (NW used to have the best combat around)
    * Character development has no effect in old content because of scaling by capping (why build up a character if it has no effect?)

    The new campaign looks ok though, so I agree with @dionchi that most will play out the campaign, get level 80 and then see. In 2-3 weeks we'll see how bad the player loss is.
    Woah! Watch out for that tumble weed it almost ran you over. That thing was huge..

  • kreatyvekreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,376 Community Moderator
    Bottom line - people are listening. "You" just ignore their responses when "you" don't like their responses. Though I suppose that goes both ways. But that's the problem in a nutshell.

    I mean that "you" as the royal "you" and not towards any individual person.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • empalasempalas Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 761 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    Bottom line - people are listening. "You" just ignore their responses when "you" don't like their responses. Though I suppose that goes both ways. But that's the problem in a nutshell.

    I mean that "you" as the royal "you" and not towards any individual person.

    IMO the response to far too many things has been crickets. And as painful as it might be to hear, its been a pattern for a very long time in the development of this game. But we will see how well(or badly) launch will be soon enough.
  • spidey#3367 spidey Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    Bottom line - people are listening. "You" just ignore their responses when "you" don't like their responses. Though I suppose that goes both ways. But that's the problem in a nutshell.

    I mean that "you" as the royal "you" and not towards any individual person.

    I asked for close.
    Your answer gives a good idea how the devs and the mods are communicate with the community. So plz close this thread. I realized its senseless.
This discussion has been closed.