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Official M16: General Feedback

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  • itzlapolaloltzitzlapolaloltz Posts: 36Member Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    mwk said:

    Northside (I believe that's the name) has talked with The Assist Man. A lot of them talked on voice chat together by discussion of Mod 16; no joke. Siv3ry, Rai-ner, The Assist Man, Nova, etc~all discussed together. There is no hype. Still I'm not leaving a game of people that I play with. Sure I'll adjust or try to, but I can't believe Cryptic is doing this to their community by not finishing what they started with Mod 16. Nothing anyone and I can do, but if Cryptic will only hold Mod 16 until 100% ready or drop these changes all together, I'm up for it. Mod 16 is just not ready!


    Lifesteal is chance of life or death. Make it work on AI enemies only, not PvP.


    Recovery helps with cooldowns.


    At the same time I think encounters should be 7-10 seconds not 20 seconds.


    I see your point, but really the problem is stacking, but it only concerns PvP correct? However it helps the player at times in gameplay against AI enemies, so all is lost.


    Just the game doesn't work well by removing so much!

    What is this obsession with youtubers? How can I simplify this?!
    Youtubers are not the community, they are part of the community some may follow them, some may agree, some may not.
    A youtuber that plays on console only, and knows what is going on on the preview only second hand, doesn't represent anyone or anything of value.

    You want to express your opinion, please do so, this is the place and the time. If they want to, they can do it the same way. But I don't see how you repeatedly bringing youtubers as the community helps your point. Let me clarify, it doesn't, especially when some are considered as providers of misleading and incorrect information, and misleading content as click baits. (Not everyone ofcourse, but there is in the list)

    To your points, both recovery and life steal were / are an issue in PvE. I'm not saying that their removal is the correct solution, but the claim it was PvP issue only is false.

    If anyone thinks that the entire direction of m16 will magically change in the 2 weeks left until it goes live, I hope whatever you are smoking is easy to grow, I'll make a fortune selling that.

    M16 is practically done deal, it remains to be seen how the more urgent issues are dealt with, especially the 'scaling' and the random stat jumps.

    Delaying it? There is no such thing as 100% complete. Somewhat an idiom based on Pareto Principal, that it will take much more time and effort to bring any work from 'good' to 'perfect'.
    So, is it good enough? Or can they make it so? Dunno. In MMO retention if they delay too long they will lose more than they will gain by the fixes. A fine line to walk. My guess is that it will not be delayed unless there will be showstopper, like players can't progress, or can't login.
    RIGHT! he is more assistED-man
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,188Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    envenomed artifact need adjustment to its ap gain to be in line with the sigil of cleric....
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,643Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 13
    mwk said:

    Ok whoa there. No one knows if The Assist Man has played Mod 16, because we seriously don't know? What if he plays more on just Xbox, but played on PC to try the preview out? Who knows? Ok probably not? However, let me remind you all that a lot of streamers reached out to the community playerbase playing Mod 16 on PC. Ok The Assist Man hasn't played Mod 16 Preview, since he is on Xbox seems most likely true. Yet, playing at a friends house or at least reaching out to other players or streamers that are playing Mod 16 for real is what these streamers are doing for the community; so give them credit for trying. As I stated all these streamers discussed with each other and reached out to the community to create their videos.

    What doing for the community? True some do provide useful information, but most do not.
    You know what is the entry requirements of being a youtuber?!

    Above Potato PC - not even needed if you are on a console.
    Microphone - 1$ on ebay, if you don't have one already.
    Recording software like https://obsproject.com/ - Also not really needed on consoles.

    Bonus for editing software but that's not really minimal requirements.

    So in other words, nothing, all you need is a bloody microphone and anyone can put their nonsense out there.That doesn't make them paragons of the community nor their representative.
    Having said that, some do put the time and effort to provide meaningful content.

    Anyone can do it (mostly), only very few actually do it well, contribute and take the time to do it not just for empty clicks but to provide meaningful content, and help players. Correct their mistakes, and take care not to provide misleading information to players.

    Talking to someone who heard of someone who played m16 is not meaningful content.
    There are hundreds of players who played on preview. There are handful (or a bit more) who reliably test and provide feedback, most are not youtubers (there are some notable exceptions), and all of them are not the HAMSTER-man.
    mwk said:


    ...Terra Stuff...

    I understand that you care and have bad experience with "I vs them devs" concept, but your experience and ban from Terra, justified or not, has no impact on m16. And shouldn't.
    mwk said:


    ...but dropping off contact all of a sudden and just stating oh it's done for release seems like a bad bold move. So why not state something if it's seen before uproar is released by the community?

    Cryptic communication is not something new or bold. This is the 16 module and in this case, they actually communicated more than usual. As shocking as this non-communication sounds.
    mwk said:


    Anyways if Mod 16 is fine, I'll manage. If not I'll wait, meaning roleplay until a new update. I'm just stating my statements because I can and personally I know how the community might react to something not finished. That is all, because I stated what I needed as statement.

    I am around for a while, in most public neverwinter related media, and I won't presume to speak for the community. I can only speak for myself, and people who shared their opinion. Comments on a youtube video or a poll is not the community, it is a subset, which is not a statistical sample. We can't say much about the community as a whole by this. Gathering useful information within its context is an entire science.
    mwk said:


    As for lifesteal it helps me by life or death chance. You all want lifesteal gone? Ok more hitpoints or defense will help, with some slight vitality health recovery given in combat while running like 300-500 hitpoints per second~I don't know-something reasonable. Which seems a bit off for Neverwinter with vitality. Healers should have less vitality because they can heal themselves.

    There are multiple dev posts and blogs, here and reddit AMA, describing why lifesteal was gone, and why they try to remove all the in-combat HP self-regeneration capability. It's one of the core changes of the mod, it will not be changed, just because someone asks for it, especially without compelling argument.
    mwk said:


    As for recovery, gameplay seems right to have only 3,721 recovery and manage with shady preparations feat that helps aid my dps in Mod 15. Trust me there is seconds in-between encounters and it's smooth gameplay for me. I only have recovery in gear stats only.

    Shame you followed the assist-man and not a proper guide for TR, like the peanut one. You would have known what a TR can do when Artificer's Persuasion and Artificer's Influence proc on power cycled buffed TR.

    But in any case, it doesn't matter where your recharge speed will come from a stat or a direct percent, the devs decided that they don't want to handle variable RS into account when balancing classes and normalizing DPS, so they mostly removed it.

    Is it possible? Yes, it is. Is it a shame that it is so? Yes, it is.
    But it's clear they are unwilling, and will resist adding modifiers to RS as much as they can, so asking for this is akin to banging the head on wall, and less useful.
    mwk said:


    So I can live with recovery only in gear stats. So I gave that suggestion. Or at least reduce encounters to 7-10 seconds. Seems reasonable.

    Yes, long cooldown are an issue, but it's long cooldowns that an issue not the lack of recovery. Make the cooldown 8 seconds to begin with and you don't need recovery.

    But lets be more honest, the cooldowns themselves are not the issue, it's possible to create engaging game-play with long cooldowns, and possible to create a dull, repetitive, mindless button mashing, boring game play with low CD encounters.
    The CDs are one of the tools in the whole kit of 'player engagement' and combat playestyle.
    If the entire combat is reduced to q->e->r->repeat, it's not better than holding at-will for half day between long-HAMSTER encounters.

    That mentioned combat fluidity, speed, and engagement, comes from various aspects:

    -- positioning (get that CA), and movement (big red zones that force you to move) - If you can just stay in place and snooze then you snooze, if you need to move you are engaged.

    -- reaction and action (are you active or passive in the combat - issue with current healing role, they are reactive only, with slow tempo - they wait for something to happen - add a meaningful ally shielding and cleansing and you have much more engaging role).

    -- overall dungeon tempo (no one likes hurry up and wait - aka CR).

    -- group synergy - reward for timing correctly and paying attention to your team members, and not just a collection of 5 solo players.

    -- build complementary synergy - A simple example, power sharing AC with Artificers Insignia DPS.

    -- Actions per minute - The bottom line engagement of the player, can we hold the mouse, and snooze or do we need to sweat to get the most.

    These are just from the top of my head, I'm sure there are more, with some more important some less. I'm not a game designer.

    M16 removes most of the above, hence the boring combat, more similar to targeted MMOs, than Action-RPGs. This is the main issue of M16, not the cool-downs on their own.
    mwk said:


    Anything that reduces cooldowns, take it! Do I really need to post a screenshot of a 15.5 million crit warrior from the previous game I played? Though I don't know how this game will manage with 20 second cooldowns on encounters with no assist of slight recovery and only feat that sorta might help?

    I agree that cooldowns are an issue, and yes, we will take everything to reduce those, most likely, but as I've said before, it's not the core issue. You can look for mod 1-3 Videos of old CN, it was engaging, and the cooldowns were not short.

    There are also plenty of much higher than double digit millions crit videos in NW so I'm not sure what the point there.
    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
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  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Posts: 295Member Arc User
    edited April 13

    @mwk

    dude, just... stop with the YT worship.

    I've watched a few of his vids. They are entertaining.

    Got nothing against that YTer, but as Mickey said he has very limited knowledge of the game.

    Regurgitates what he hears from actual preview testers.

    Then new players like yourself take it as gospel.



    With a few notable exceptions like Rainer and Silv3ry, most YTers are just sound and fury.

    For those who not familiar with the allusion, the relevant text is as follows:

    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 28-30
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,762Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    @mwk

    dude, just... stop with the YT worship.

    I've watched a few of his vids. They are entertaining.

    Got nothing against that YTer, but as Mickey said he has very limited knowledge of the game.

    Regurgitates what he hears from actual preview testers.

    Then new players like yourself take it as gospel.



    With a few notable exceptions like Rainer and Silv3ry, most YTers are just sound and fury.

    For those who not familiar with the allusion, the relevant text is as follows:

    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 28-30
    My calculus professor was especially fond of that one.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 208Member Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    @mwk

    dude, just... stop with the YT worship.

    I've watched a few of his vids. They are entertaining.

    Got nothing against that YTer, but as Mickey said he has very limited knowledge of the game.

    Regurgitates what he hears from actual preview testers.

    Then new players like yourself take it as gospel.



    With a few notable exceptions like Rainer and Silv3ry, most YTers are just sound and fury.

    For those who not familiar with the allusion, the relevant text is as follows:

    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 28-30
    My calculus professor was especially fond of that one.
    My prof preferred . . . if ignorance is bliss, you are overjoyed!
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    @mwk

    dude, just... stop with the YT worship.

    I've watched a few of his vids. They are entertaining.

    Got nothing against that YTer, but as Mickey said he has very limited knowledge of the game.

    Regurgitates what he hears from actual preview testers.

    Then new players like yourself take it as gospel.



    With a few notable exceptions like Rainer and Silv3ry, most YTers are just sound and fury.

    For those who not familiar with the allusion, the relevant text is as follows:

    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 28-30
    My calculus professor was especially fond of that one.
    I <3 your calculus proof. Mine just threw whiteboard erasers at us.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,121Member Arc User
    Cryptic should not put any feedback threats in forum next time.
    Simply post a link for feedback where everyone can send bugs and personal feedback, passed to the responsible devs by preselection. If devs do think some of the input is worth it, they can respond. This prevents most player from getting annoyed and others to go on giving input.
    Feedback threats in general need some kind of response or guidance, if this company wants player to check preview and do their work to some degree. If not, they should stop posting open feedback threats.
    My actual thoughts: " Will it take another 3-4 years until stuff get´s fixed/balanced or not ?"
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Posts: 208Member Arc User

    Cryptic should not put any feedback threats in forum next time.
    Simply post a link for feedback where everyone can send bugs and personal feedback, passed to the responsible devs by preselection. If devs do think some of the input is worth it, they can respond. This prevents most player from getting annoyed and others to go on giving input.
    Feedback threats in general need some kind of response or guidance, if this company wants player to check preview and do their work to some degree. If not, they should stop posting open feedback threats.
    My actual thoughts: " Will it take another 3-4 years until stuff get´s fixed/balanced or not ?"

    THREAD or THREAT

    Your post can be read each way and with very different meaning.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    edited April 13
    They actually kind of need feedback and feedback threads though, because they don't have anything near the official alpha/beta process of other companies and games. But, you are right in that having us do the work for free means that there needs to be interaction and looping. As bad as this is, this is actually some of the best dev interaction I've seen.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,134Member Arc User

    Cryptic should not put any feedback threats in forum next time.
    Simply post a link for feedback where everyone can send bugs and personal feedback, passed to the responsible devs by preselection. If devs do think some of the input is worth it, they can respond. This prevents most player from getting annoyed and others to go on giving input.
    Feedback threats in general need some kind of response or guidance, if this company wants player to check preview and do their work to some degree. If not, they should stop posting open feedback threats.
    My actual thoughts: " Will it take another 3-4 years until stuff get´s fixed/balanced or not ?"

    I don't t hink it should be curated for the devs. the devs should still need to read all the feedback. but I agree, these threads devolve in a way that isn't helpful to the process.
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,121Member Arc User
    There is no interaction in most parts of this forum, so you say no interaction is the best you ever experienced?
    Irritating somehow.
    All I pull out of this is -> stopped preview testings on my side, no to low response same way I stopped even thinking about balance, classes or content at all, feels better to me.
  • hustin1hustin1 Posts: 2,762Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 13

    hustin1 said:

    @mwk

    dude, just... stop with the YT worship.

    I've watched a few of his vids. They are entertaining.

    Got nothing against that YTer, but as Mickey said he has very limited knowledge of the game.

    Regurgitates what he hears from actual preview testers.

    Then new players like yourself take it as gospel.



    With a few notable exceptions like Rainer and Silv3ry, most YTers are just sound and fury.

    For those who not familiar with the allusion, the relevant text is as follows:

    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    Macbeth Act 5, scene 5, 28-30
    My calculus professor was especially fond of that one.
    I <3 your calculus proof. Mine just threw whiteboard erasers at us.</p>
    Haha. Fr. Hohmann wasn't what I would consider the best Calculus professor but his classes were the only ones that fit with the rest of the schedule my major required. He did love Shakespeare, though.

    *shrug*. Jesuit education -- Shakespeare, Chaucer, Poe, et. al. infuse every aspect of life. Not even a Physics major is immune.
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    My physics professor started all lessons with Wallace and Grommet. He was absolutely awesome.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 262Member Arc User
    edited April 13
    Here is a list of items and improvements that did not make it into M16 that would be great to have soon:

    arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1247195/mod-16½
  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 136Member Arc User
    Am i the only one finding the item drops from high level foe really insulting? I just spent like 15 minutes chipping away at an undead ogre thing only to get 2 black pearls.

    not only it seems my damage output has been further limited but now the game is giving me the finger for taking out level 80 monsters.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,780Member Arc User
    bpstuart said:

    Am i the only one finding the item drops from high level foe really insulting? I just spent like 15 minutes chipping away at an undead ogre thing only to get 2 black pearls.

    not only it seems my damage output has been further limited but now the game is giving me the finger for taking out level 80 monsters.

    That depends where you where and what you were doing.

    HE mobs drop zone level appropriate blue gear that isn't bound.

    Expeditions can drop all the way to 1k iL gear.

    Its always RNG luck though.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 136Member Arc User

    bpstuart said:

    Am i the only one finding the item drops from high level foe really insulting? I just spent like 15 minutes chipping away at an undead ogre thing only to get 2 black pearls.

    not only it seems my damage output has been further limited but now the game is giving me the finger for taking out level 80 monsters.

    That depends where you where and what you were doing.

    HE mobs drop zone level appropriate blue gear that isn't bound.

    Expeditions can drop all the way to 1k iL gear.

    Its always RNG luck though.
    It is the one that spawns in the catacombs, the one that really shouldn't be a level 80 in the starting zone. i was level 75 and it took forever to deal with with and felt like some mini-boss or part of a heroic encounter. It was not the first to do that, the glowing t-rex in the Myconid caves also drops weak loot, it had been pearls or copper the last 3 times i downed it.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • trelamytrelamy Posts: 35Member Arc User
    Removing the exchange vendor was a terrible Idea, I'm curious to see what they're gonna do.

    There's a high probability that a shitstorm is coming your way Cryptic.....
    We can't wait until the morning, why not drag the sun out into the sky, force it and go!
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    Everyone hated it anyway, and almost no one was going to use it bta. So why all the complaining that it's gone? It's actually better imo to have it gone than as a frustrating source of bta enchantments that would gimp people who used it.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,780Member Arc User
    I take it you haven’t noticed that Lair of the Mad Mage isn’t accessible from queue this week?

    I think you will find the exchange and LotMM will be back.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Posts: 1,780Member Arc User
    bpstuart said:

    It is the one that spawns in the catacombs, the one that really shouldn't be a level 80 in the starting zone. i was level 75 and it took forever to deal with with and felt like some mini-boss or part of a heroic encounter. It was not the first to do that, the glowing t-rex in the Myconid caves also drops weak loot, it had been pearls or copper the last 3 times i downed it.

    Pretty sure the T-Rex is just a tough mob, not a boss, like the ogre leaning against the wall in Catacombs when you go to the first Expedition.

    All the actual “mini bosses” drop seals, after that it’s RNG if you get anything useful.

    I think you might have a legitimate argument that their tables need a tweak, that could be taken to the rewards thread.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • skrewfaz3d#1482 skrewfaz3d Posts: 45Member Arc User
    Besides the fact that refining is really efficient at the moment with the try to success? If this doesn't change when it comes to console, I'll be actually working to get as many enchantments up as I can.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,785Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited April 15

    Besides the fact that refining is really efficient at the moment with the try to success? If this doesn't change when it comes to console, I'll be actually working to get as many enchantments up as I can.

    I'm not sure what you mean. The only change to refining "efficiency" is that because of the ward cap, you will need slightly fewer Preservation wards than before in the long run.

    The "efficiency" that is relevant to me is more like how much I gain from leveling up an enchant, compared to how much it costs me, and right now, refining enchants (other than bonding runestones) is just not an effective way to gain stats.

    Also keep in mind how scaling works. If you are a level 80 player doing L70 content, a R10 and R15 enchants might get scaled (or more like "capped") down to the same level - anything you put into refining them is essentially wasted, so - no, it's not very "efficient".

    But, if you just want to walk around with a higher IL number, sure, go ahead.

    Make NWO great again, please....
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