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Official M16: Paladin Feedback

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  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    W

    Ok so im going to give you some negative feedback and a bug take it or leave it, ok so you changed the tab key divine champion now to increase effectiveness of our auras ok cool But you're thought process lacks in the auras section completely because you honestly only have 1 good aura there for parties and it basically ends there, Issues or bug with divine champion once you press tab it might stay on 30 seconds or it might stay on 2 seconds lol please fix it to stay on or a full 30 seconds because it seems broken, yea defiantly something wrong with Divine Champion.

    You understand it uses 60 divinity a second right?
    So without the feat it last 16s and with the feat it lasts 20s.

    If you press tab after you activated it it cancels the effect as well.

    I’m also curious what you think the “good” Aura is?
    There are some questions about how Aura of Protection and Aura of Wrath interact with their respective caps, but if Aura of Wrath allows you to exceed the cap of 50% on Crit rate I’m pretty sure a bunch of DPS will take that.

    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Weird. I've got an Oathkeeper and a Justicar loadout and my iL is boosted 125 points when I switch from heals to tank. Same gear, same mounts, same companion powers and I don't know what's causing it.

    *Edit - If its due to that EXTRA mechanic the Justicar gets then I'm finding the highest point in Undermountain and leaping my main into a chasm.

    *Correction - TWO extra mechanics over the Oathkeeper. Unbelievable!
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Questions

    Hi @asterdahl Ive got a few aching inquiries

    1) Why does the Vanguard have so much more powerful and better thought out Dailies than Justicar ? Do you plan to have some work done on our Dailies ?

    Lets look at Phalanx vs Shield of Faith, the imbalance is monumental. Phalanx grants the Vanguard cc immunity and 20% party wide dmg reductuon for 14(!) seconds for the price of one AP bar. A Justicar has to activate Tab to gain cc immunity for the price of Divinity then activate Shield of Faith (and empty the AP bar) to provide 5% party wide dmg reduction for 10 seconds. Why do Justicars have to spent two key resources (AP and Divinity) in order to gain/provide weaker effects compared to the Vangurd spending only one key resource(AP) and doing a better job?

    2) Why is a Vanguard Encounter ability doing the same thing as one of Justicars Dailies only better since its on a shorter cooldown? Yea you guessed it, Knight's Valor is a Vanguard encounter vs our daily Divine Protector.


    3) Why do the Vanguard At wills have so much higher magnitudes than Justicar considering you have tied alot of essential Justicar utility directly to At will use? We have 3 Feats directly tied to At Will use yet none of us want to use At Wills!

    4) Why is the mag of Relentless reduced so much? Punishing charge from the Sentinel has higher mag and a 3 sec stun. Relentless has no added effect, only damage and not that good of a damage for a single hit ability anyway.

    I know you guys have done some good work with the last patch but when making class changes of this magnitude you must be extremely careful with class balance too. Sure Smite and DJ have higher magnitudes than any Vanguard ability - so what? Those are both single target powers, one is a Daily and the other a key resource consumer. And both of them are gonna be used mainly in pvp where Justicar will still suck due to not having any proper cc powers. Coincidently, the Vanguard and Sentinel will both be quite good in PVP thanks to multiple strong cc powers.

    Please make sure your tanks are comparable in ability and overall power.
    Post edited by emilemo on
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    emilemo said:

    Questions

    Hi @asterdahl Ive got a few aching inquiries

    1) Why does the Vanguard have so much more powerful and better thought out Dailies than Justicar ? Do you plan to have some work done on our Dailies ?

    Lets look at Phalanx vs Shield of Faith, the imbalance is monumental. Phalanx grants the Vanguard cc immunity and 20% party wide dmg reductuon for 14(!) seconds for the price of one AP bar. A Justicar has to activate Tab to gain cc immunity for the price of Divinity then activate Shield of Faith (and empty the AP bar) to provide 5% party wide dmg reduction for 10 seconds. Why do Justicars have to spent two key resources (AP and Divinity) in order to gain/provide weaker effects compared to the Vangurd spending only one key resource(AP) and doing a better job?

    2) Why is a Vanguard Encounter ability doing the same thing as one of Justicars Dailies only better since its on a shorter cooldown? Yea you guessed it, Knight's Valor is a Vanguard encounter vs our daily Divine Protector.


    3) Why do the Vanguard At wills have so much higher magnitudes than Justicar considering you have tied alot of essential Justicar utility directly to At will use? We have 3 Feats directly tied to At Will use yet none of us want to use At Wills!

    I know you guys have done some good work with the last patch but when making class changes of this magnitude you must be extremely careful with class balance too. Sure Smite and DJ have higher magnitudes than any Vanguard ability - so what? Those are both single target powers, one is a Daily and the other a key resource consumer. And both of them are gonna be used mainly in pvp where Justicar will still suck due to not having any proper cc powers. Coincidently, the Vanguard will be quite good in PVP thanks to multiple strong cc powers.

    Please make sure your tanks are comparable in ability and overall power.

    Take a look at Knight's Valor before you get too envious of it. Its current iteration is fiddly and hard to use effectively.

    How much will they have to incentivize at-will usage before you will be willing to do so? They've upped their relative proportion of their damage, and given feats to improve their efficiency. At least give them a try.

    I will grant that CC powers, even soft CCs like snares and dazes, are important parts of any tank's kit, regardless of whether they're doing PvP or PvE, and it would be good to ensure that the Justicar has some tools of that variety.
  • kacsaneverkacsanever Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User
    Arcturia was a nightmare with Paladin. The main issues were:
    * mob uses power (Festering Swarm) disables the toon
    * this power is cast too offen, lasts quite long
    * mob regularly jumps back into one of these, makes it impossible to use most of the powers
    * mob power Life Drain heals back the mob even if it is blocked, w/o divinity it is impossible to outdamage it
    * it is a 2-3 phase encounter, no time between phases to regain divinity for last phase
    * divinity gain is low for these long encounter
    I almost gave it up, but found a Feat/boon/power setup i could do it at the end. but it was really a specific setup, I would never use in long term.

  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited April 2019



    How much will they have to incentivize at-will usage before you will be willing to do so? They've upped their relative proportion of their damage, and given feats to improve their efficiency. At least give them a try.



    Hi @fenrir4life At-willing was viable in a combo with SW when BO was providing cc immunity. Now its not. You drop your guard to At will and any stray cc cast your way will disable, possibly killing you if you're in a hard party dungeon. So no, using At wills isnt a good option on a Justicar as he is now on Preview. Unless of course you plan to Tab and then at will which also makes no sense since even Feated, at wills dont recover enough Divinity thus you are left drained.

    Unless Justi at wills also get a mag boost they are only used for moppin up the last 2% of a mob's hp or to recover some stamina vs a boss for a split second.

    Fun fact - playing around in Vanrakdoom I found its actually very effective to slot BO, feated BL and Relentless and just block and kill. So what now guys? First you force Divinity on us, then you nerf the damaging Divinity consumers thus making it pretty much the same to play with or without it? Makes no sense whatsoever. Either we go with Divinity as a class defining resourse, making all D consumers appropriately strong or scrap the damn thing altogether. With the last patch you are actually giving us the ability to solo without a single drop of Divinity being used - why? Are we supposed to use that thing or not? Why gimp our class with this new resourse if its use is only optional? Yea, I just got back from preview where i played around for a few hours and guess what - I still dont Tab on a Justicar, I see no point in it. I Tab all the time on my Sentinel tho. Where is the Justicar headed? Seemingly nowhere imo

    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    emilemo said:




    How much will they have to incentivize at-will usage before you will be willing to do so? They've upped their relative proportion of their damage, and given feats to improve their efficiency. At least give them a try.



    Hi @fenrir4life At-willing was viable in a combo with SW when BO was providing cc immunity. Now its not. You drop your guard to At will and any stray cc cast your way will disable, possibly killing you if you're in a hard party dungeon. So no, using At wills isnt a good option on a Justicar as he is now on Preview. Unless of course you plan to Tab and then at will which also makes no sense since even Feated, at wills dont recover enough Divinity thus you are left drained.

    Unless Justi at wills also get a mag boost they are only used for moppin up the last 2% of a mob's hp or to recover some stamina vs a boss for a split second.

    Fun fact - playing around in Vanrakdoom I found its actually very effective to slot BO, feated BL and Relentless and just block and kill. So what now guys? First you force Divinity on us, then you nerf the damaging Divinity consumers thus making it pretty much the same to play with or without it? Makes no sense whatsoever. Either we go with Divinity as a class defining resourse, making all D consumers appropriately strong or scrap the damn thing altogether. With the last patch you are actually giving us the ability to solo without a single drop of Divinity being used - why? Are we supposed to use that thing or not? Why gimp our class with this new resourse if its use is only optional? Yea, I just got back from preview where i played around for a few hours and guess what - I still dont Tab on a Justicar, I see no point in it. I Tab all the time on my Sentinel tho. Where is the Justicar headed? Seemingly nowhere imo

    I mean, Sentinel's tab is its iconic feature. If I were to select a feature that was as iconic to the paladin as Rage is to the Barbarian, I'd pick Smite. Still willing to give this tab a chance, but I maintain that other divinity spenders should still be brought up to par with Smite to allow for a compelling choice, otherwise we've essentially only got two variable Encounter slots.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    @emilemo the idea is to create a range of viable ways to play each class, each player should be able to play “their way” inside a class without being significantly worse for the choice.

    I found you can slot Sacred Weapon, Burning Light (which feated makes you cc immune while held), and Binding Oath for dungeons and use Tab and at-wills to hold aggro. Not good for solo play, but good for having friends along. That’s one of several solutions for group content....

    So it seems that we are getting very close to the goal for the class (at least for tank)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I have been arguing that Composure should be rolled into Divinity recovery and replaced as a Passive for some time.

    So today I removed it from my powers and slotted something else instead, and I cannot perceive (in play) a difference between having it slotted and not having it slotted. So either its not working or its effect is actually so small as to not matter, either of these are bad.


    It will take me a while to do it (unlikely before US Tuesday is pretty much done), but the trials to test it if someone else wants to this weekend using a test dummy are:
    With Composure slotted: drain divinity to 0 then time how long to refill just standing there (do at least 3 times)
    Without Composure slotted: drain divinity to 0 then time how long to refill just standing there (do at least 3 times)
    With Composure slotted and Divinie Pursuit Feat: drain divinity to 0, then attack dummy while timing how long it takes to refill (do at least 3 times)
    With Composure slotted and no Divinie Pursuit Feat: drain divinity to 0, then attack dummy while timing how long it takes to refill (do at least 3 times)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 247 Arc User
    Still have not had a chance to run group content with people, but I agree with Obsidian. As long as agro works, and I see no reason to doubt it currently, our damage is good enough to solo to 80. Just soloed ESoT and the final boss fight may have taken a while and may have cost me a few health stones(4-6?) but no deaths and boss down. 20.26Il preview(16.6 live).

    Encounters: BO, RA and Bane. Radiant strike and shielding strike. Heroism for my daily (did not try divine protector feated)
    Blessed Wander and composure. Only a few feats taken some still left open. All current boons except not in a guild on preview.

    To be honest the battle actually felt very epic, as I hesitated every time to use a health stone. Would not even use one until the Boss fight.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User

    Arcturia was a nightmare with Paladin. The main issues were:
    * mob uses power (Festering Swarm) disables the toon
    * this power is cast too offen, lasts quite long
    * mob regularly jumps back into one of these, makes it impossible to use most of the powers
    * mob power Life Drain heals back the mob even if it is blocked, w/o divinity it is impossible to outdamage it
    * it is a 2-3 phase encounter, no time between phases to regain divinity for last phase
    * divinity gain is low for these long encounter
    I almost gave it up, but found a Feat/boon/power setup i could do it at the end. but it was really a specific setup, I would never use in long term.

    That's basically what she does in LotMM as well, be prepared!
    Plus a couple of extra tricks, but those are her central attacks.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    So after spending the last 2 days getting my Pali from 70 to 80 again my overall impression is that this is the right base for the Justicar. This is the closest I have felt to Live for solo play, though there are more tricks to making it work on Preview and there are easily 3 or 4 power collections that can be used to make the play experience your own.

    So YAY!

    But its not all sunshine and roses...

    The next step is going through and squishing the bugs and tuning things so they work a little better.


    Smite: This power no longer consistently fires. Blink at the wrong time and nothing happens.
    Burning Light: I have been using the feat that turns it into Blocking Light, which is excellent, but there is a gap between the block and the application of the damage - if a CC effect hits you in that moment the damage doesn't occur. The block effect needs to be extended ever so slightly after release to stop this from happening.
    Composure: I remain unlikely to test it carefully before late Tuesday US time, but it seems that this power is not working. My Divinity recovery was better, or certainly no worse with out it, than with it.
    Divine Pursuit: Also no clear sign that it is working, it certainly does not assist Divinity Recovery to the same extent as the one that works from blocking. (Well assuming that one is working, its nigh impossible to test for me.)


    With some discussion and experimenting by @majorcharvenak Palisade does heal while Divine Champion is active, but the heal is insignificant (because when I use it I never notice it healing on my health bar). Given that you have made a feat to make the one healing power that Justicars have perform better, perhaps that feat could be tweaked to apply to Palisade as well as Divine Touch? Then with that feat and the one that makes Shield of Faith share healing the Justicar would have 3 small heal effects they could use to support a party for more flexibility in options/builds.

    Very much need to know if Aura of Wrath and Aura of Protection can exceed the caps on the stats they affect?
    If they cannot they can probably double in value, as they are more for helping weaker groups do better, rather than for stronger groups. If they do exceed cap, they are good where they are (in context of Mod16 buffs).

    If Composure is working it either needs a larger effect (you should notice it is not slotted), or (better still) just be rolled into Divinity Recovery as is and replaced with another passive.

    Also while I understand why the feat gives Divine Champion wings, I wish it always had them!
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User

    The latest nerf to Divinity recovery via blocking often leaves a Justicar hidind behind a shield but getting no D for his blocks. This whole "pool" thing is basically an internal cooldown on D recovery via blocking. I tested in dungeons and solo and quite often my Justi simply stays Blocking and gettin no D back. Extremely frustrating and infuriating, thanks devs!

    So I have to endure this new resourse called Divinity and my fave tank class turned into some cleric-lite but then I cant really depend on the D since it has a recovery limit and a cooldown BUT my non D consuming powers are not that great either..
    So wtf am i doing?


    Im gettin' pissed again, the devs are masters of disaster. Bye, gonna open a beer and enjoy American Gods now.
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • vikingozzievikingozzie Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6 Arc User
    If you are going to make it so we can't cap all our our stats it would be nice to have options on the paladin gear so we can choose the stats we want and aren't stuck with what you want us to have. The Protege's helms both have crit on them and if I want to go combat advantage I don't get this choice which makes it harder to build how I want which makes my character weaker because I may not get to the cap on one even if I am stuck with both stats and trying to get all the others I need so they both end up useless. Seems like each step of what you do is to just make it harder for us to be able to build a character that actually works with the new system.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    emilemo said:


    The latest nerf to Divinity recovery via blocking often leaves a Justicar hidind behind a shield but getting no D for his blocks. This whole "pool" thing is basically an internal cooldown on D recovery via blocking. I tested in dungeons and solo and quite often my Justi simply stays Blocking and gettin no D back. Extremely frustrating and infuriating, thanks devs!

    So I have to endure this new resourse called Divinity and my fave tank class turned into some cleric-lite but then I cant really depend on the D since it has a recovery limit and a cooldown BUT my non D consuming powers are not that great either..
    So wtf am i doing?

    I’m not seeing this slow down in Divinity recovery that you are describing. I can drain my Divinity to 0 and refill quickly by blocking (eg mobs/bosses in eToS, giants at start of LotMM).

    Burning Light with feat doesn’t count as using your shield for Divinity recovery, but default recovery still occurs during it.

    But, as I have mentioned, Composure appears to be doing nothing, perhaps it is the source of the problem? In that my feeling was that Divinity recovered the same, perhaps better with out it (but I lack measurements, just “feeling” this).

    So this is what I have been doing:

    Powers: Vengeance, Radiant, Shielding Strike (the 5% Damage while solo Passive), Radiant Charge, DJ with one of:

    Sacred Weapon, Bane, Burning Light (no Tab)

    Binding Oath, Relentless Avenger, Burning Light (with Tab)

    Relentless Avenger, Smite, Burning Light, (no Tab)

    Sacred Weapon, Smite, Relentless Avenger (no Tab)

    All (no Tab) comments are because in solo play, in regular instances, things are not hitting enough (being dead) to recover Divinity fast enough to hit with attacks and use Tab. In eToS I only used the rotation with Tab, and I didn’t have the DPS/patience to fix rotation to kill Syndryth (though I got her to transform - the poison from the white laser was brutal!) - oh I didn’t “gear up”, that’s with the gear I brought in from Live (Oathlords) and some drops from leveling and an Expedition (rings, shirt, pants, boots) .

    I’m not where I can name feats but the things affected by my choices are; Sacred Weapon, Burning Light, Blocking, Shield of Faith, Tab costs 50

    Boons: Power, HP, ArP, Awareness, Companion Influence, Movement (2), AP gain, Recovery, the one that can reflect damage back

    I run Eclipse and Bronzewood enchants, with Rank 13 Radiants in all off/def except Heart of Fire (off) and a Rank 11 Tene. DC sigil as active artifact.

    All stat pips in Int and Cha. I have a +4 Con belt atm. (Ultimately I want Con and Int 20 and as much Cha as I can get, we shall see..)
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    @majorcharvenak and I got together with a TR and poked around in LoL and eSoT. I tanked, major healed and can give feedback on that side.

    I didn't run "full aggro" on the run, but even then with basically just Oath Strike and whatever damage I was doing I was largely able to hold aggro. There were definitely times when I lost it on mobs, but overall it was consistent that I could observe with what I would expect with just Oath Strike as a hard aggro tool.

    The one thing that really stood out was the Shields that major was applying, whenever they break I got the same message that I get when my own shield breaks - this is very confusing. Oathkeeper's shields are tiny compared to the damage mitigated 200k shield I have. So nearly any hit from a big mob instantly shattered their shields and my screen fills with purple broken shields.... This makes it really hard to judge what was happening with my shields and how to use them best.

    The other problem I had was Palisade. Because Palisade locks you in place, if it locks you in place on a red splat that does enough damage (due to bugs in this case) that it will kill you in a tic or 2 then Palisade is essentially a death sentence, even though it is what you want for avoiding big hits....

    The final problem I found comes back to Composure and Blessed Wanderer, these 2 are solid powers for solo content, but they end up limiting choices for group content. Something that is exasperated by the existence of Divine Challenger.

    So this is what happens;
    You are in a group: Blessed Wanderer is no longer viable (7 passive options)
    You choose and Aura (3 passive options)
    You don't want to use Smite (2 passive options)

    In essence for group play you really only have 2 choices; Composure and Divine Retribution, because the reality is that outside of situations with 1 target (ie single bosses) Divine Challenger is a bad choice and by and large in those situations other aggro powers (feated tab, and Oath Strike for eg) negate the need for Divine Challenger.

    Composure, Divine Retribution and Divine Challenger probably need a bit of work, or we need to be able to slot 2x Auras (even if its 1 offence and 1 defense Aura).
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • bazylikonbazylikon Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Sorry for my English. English is not my native language.

    @asterdahl Time for constructive criticism. Divinity really prevents us from playing. Not in the solo game but in the party and instances. My paladin on the test server has a 22k item lvl. So I can do all content. Our curse is the mechanics restoration of divinity - Channel Divinity (Oathkeeper) and Justicar's Charge (Justicar).

    I went to Valindra's Tower with my Paladin Justicar. I had CW on control in the team. Not once did I have agrro or build a threat. There are several reasons.

    Skills based on divinity are too expensive.
    - Templar's Wraths: 300 divinity
    - Smite (with class feature): 220 divinity
    - Divine Touch (with feat): 220 divinity

    Sacred Weapon (with feat) has too long cooldown (27 sec) and lasts too short (10 sec) to be effective. It is too weak for us to build agrro only with at-wills.

    Divine pursuit (feat) to be useful needs spamming with divinity-based skills. As I mentioned before, the skills are too expensive.. for this It has a very short duration (10 sec).

    The Vow of Enmity remains as a security. Literally, to build agrro we have one skill not based on divinity.. for this with a very long cooldown (18 sec).

    When Paladin goes in the party with Cotrolers Justicar's Charge does not work. We are not beaten by mobs so we do not renew the divinity. We will use 3-4 skills and then we will only have Vow of Enmity with a cooldown of 18 seconds. This is a tragedy!
    I must also say about places like the second boss on the Lair of the Mad Mage where you have to move all the time. So there is no way how to renew the divinity.

    Now a few words about the Oathkeeper. Channel Divinity is a joke. It requires that we stand for a long moment and kiss the sword. It is impossible in most instances. To increase the difficulty of the game, you have gone the simplest way. You've given the crowd control mechanics everywhere. Everything freezes, stuns and rolls over. Oathkeeper is fighting not only with mobs but also with the environment. This causes channel divinnity to be useless. You can not regenerate divinity in LoL (scorpions and Boss), ToNG (second Boss), Lair of the Mad Mage (second Boss). I have been able to check these instances. I'm sure there's a lot more of them. Because the Channel Divinity does not work properly, Divine focus (feat) and Circle of Power (usually throws me out of its range) also don't work . Sacred Weapon (with feat) is very ineffective. Immediately I say. On my Oathkeeper, I use the elven battle enchant. It does not help completely. We need 100% of all form control resist to restoration the divinity.


    @asterdahl Tell us the truth. Will instances, dungeones, global events, all contents and enviroments be adapted in mode 16 to the mechanics of Channel Divinity and Justicar's Charge? What about the situation when there are controllers in the party and Justicar is not beaten ... how to generate divinity? Maybe you will warn "This instance does not support paladin's Channel Divinity and Justicar's Charge and we recommend choosing a healer and tank from other classes" And "It is recommended that the party with the controllers do not take the paladin as a tank"???
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    To piggyback on @obsidiancran3 feedback, running on the heals side, I went slightly heavy on the heals:

    Encounters- Divine Touch, Circle of Power (with swap to Bond of Virtue for the Scorpions in Lol), Divine Shelter/Smite swap for trash and emergencies.

    Class features - Composure slotted along with Blessed wanderer (until I pulled my head out of my backside) then switched to Pulse of Life.

    Dailies - Lay on Hands (for the real emergencies) with DJ and Sanctuary on the swap depending on the situation.

    At wills - Fulmination with Valorous/Cure on the swap. I was hesitant to slot that last one since it also now comes with a divinity cost and Cure spam for top offs can quickly add up.

    Feats - Critical Touch, Divine Focus (which is getting swapped for Prayer of Opportunity, DF build up while channeling takes too long between fight), Spirit of Austerity, Divine Intervention and Emissary of Warding.
    .
    In LoL, the heals and divinity were fine (600-700 divinity to spare) until the Scorpions and then it went south, way south! The recurring problem with Divine Barriers is not simply that it overrides the block feature (with respect to which feature takes the damage first), but repeated applications (to top off a damaged party member under the effects of the barrier) actually OVERWRITE the existing barrier - not stack. This leads to situations where a party member might have substantial protection provided by a Barrier from a heal that crits being REDUCED by a follow-on encounter sent to top off which doesn't. Why not use cure for the top off, you might ask? Because without Sheltered healing, the heals from cure are still rather week at 50 mag AND they cost divinity which can only be offset by standing in Circle - which keeps me immobilized if I want to benefit from the regen and the heal bonus. That's all fine in other areas but not with the overgrown lava lobsters or other places with persistant AoEs. Divinity during that fight was almost non-existent and channeling during that fight was painfully slow. BoV (while it's nice that the healing was improved) is, imo, still a failure as a final encounter power. It can only be activated while teamed which eliminates its utility outside of an established party and it only benefits one individual (in this case the tank) and for the visually-impaired, it gives you little indication that its active. In all honesty, this close to live, just get rid of this one and give us something else.

    In SoT, Things were much easier. The barriers and heals seemed to hold up better which made repeated application unnecessary. As the fights there didn't involve area wide death, It was a bit easier to find a relatively safe to park for CoP, heals, the occasional smite. @obisidiancran had so much aggro, repeated smites did nothing to my threat meter. Granted those were nerfed under Spirit of Austerity, but with the divinity cost being 70% less than it normally cost, I felt comfortable including smite in my trash clearing rotation without risking divinity I needed for the heals. Sanctuary was utilized for the final fight and it was a little meh. There is still the problem that any other action you take will cancel it, and it fixes you in place. Its no where near as smooth or as effective as its earlier counterpart. Either widening its Area of Effect or allowing it to move and be repositioned with the Oathkeeper (even with reduced mobility) could be beneficial, especially if someone is caught outside of its AoE. Fine if everyone is focused on one target, but it has limited utility imho for multiple bosses.

    To sum it all up, the number of powers that root Oathkeepers in place for a benefit like Circle of Power and Sanctuary need to be reduced or changed to provide some manner of mobility as the fights require the Oathkeeper to re-position. Increase the healing magnitude of the non-divine barrier giving heals to allow for top offs. Get rid of the divine cost for at-will heals for all healing classes, I can understand having a divinity cost for encounters to limit their use but adding that to at-wills is almost criminal and makes slotting them a potential detriment to party play. Finally, either allow Divine Barriers to stack or at least not let them overwrite an existing barrier until its depleted. and place them under blocks in the damage mitigation priority so they don't impact other class features.. Those are my two coppers.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
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  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    If you are blocking with feated Burning Light and something applies a CC effect (eg Umber Hulk fear, but not Purple Worms) through the block then you get stuck in the cast of the spell, and immediately cast it after the CC effect finishes.

    This is actually something I like, but I suspect it isn't WAI, but I hope it is.
    Post edited by obsidiancran3 on
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • benyrbenyr Member Posts: 238 Arc User
    I have some weird stat issues going on on preview since the latest patch, When I first logged on I summoned an Owlbear cub as my Augment companion, and looked at my stats, I had about 540k HP, 110k power, 83k Defense, 81k accuracy as an example. I went into combat against the Vampires in Shadows edge and my stats plummeted. My HP went down to about 360HP, power to 90k, defense about 66k and accuracy 58k (all other stats dropped too).

    I got out of combat, my stats didn't increase so i dismissed my pet and re summoned, no change. I summoned a Con artist my stats dropped, I re summoned my owlbear stats went back to the decreased levels i had for it, i then dismissed and re summoned a few times with no change. I then summoned a bear cub Augment, and my stats jumped back up to my high starting stats and stayed there throughout combat. All 3 pets are legendary.

    In terms of the combat, it is far better than the first time i logged onto preview, and better than when i was able to steam roller everything, so many thanks for that. However with the stats dropped as described above, those Vampire mobs were tough, never really got close to killing me but took an age to kill. With the increased stats I am back to being near immortal, but again for an open zone mob i still feel its taking slightly too long to kill them all, mainly due to the at wills still being ineffective.

    As an aside I have issues re the new boon system, In that there is almost no point in taking the time to earn them. Based on your latest patch notes the maxed stats you need for a level 70 critter (level 70 is the only level you've provided accurate info on) we need to max everything, Arpen 57k, accuracy 57k, crit strike 52k, Combat advantage 97k, Defense 57k, deflect 57k, Crit resist 62k & Awareness 67k. This is for level 70 Mobs, level 80 will be higher and critters on LoMM higher still. Presumably future releases will get higher and higher. I think its safe to assume the bulk of that stats will need to be in the 80k region to cap in LoMM currently.

    Boons currently have 5 ranks, increasing a stat by 250 per rank, so 1250 max. That's about 1.56% of your max cap provided by boons (Stronghold boons excluded). That's a joke, If I were a new player why would i grind Stormkings Thunder to the end, or Maze engine for another 250 stat points, when equipment is so easy to get at high levels. I don't mind enchants providing high stats, they're expensive and time consuming to level up but Boons should provide the single highest uplift. They're the most time consuming items to get, they show a player has put the time in to play their class, and they encourage people to play content you have released. Please please re work so gear provides less stats and boons far far more to encourage people to go out and earn them.
  • fns2005fns2005 Member Posts: 297 Arc User
    > @obsidiancran3 said:
    >
    > The one thing that really stood out was the Shields that major was applying, whenever they break I got the same message that I get when my own shield breaks - this is very confusing. Oathkeeper's shields are tiny compared to the damage mitigated 200k shield I have. So nearly any hit from a big mob instantly shattered their shields and my screen fills with purple broken shields.... This makes it really hard to judge what was happening with my shields and how to use them best.

    That seems problematic!
  • fns2005fns2005 Member Posts: 297 Arc User
    I agree with the posters above regarding the problems with being rooted into place by powers. @asterdahl Just like Devout, why are healers getting published this way?? Any why was CC immunity removed from Binding Oath??
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Arcturia was a nightmare with Paladin. The main issues were:
    * mob uses power (Festering Swarm) disables the toon
    * this power is cast too offen, lasts quite long
    * mob regularly jumps back into one of these, makes it impossible to use most of the powers
    * mob power Life Drain heals back the mob even if it is blocked, w/o divinity it is impossible to outdamage it
    * it is a 2-3 phase encounter, no time between phases to regain divinity for last phase
    * divinity gain is low for these long encounter
    I almost gave it up, but found a Feat/boon/power setup i could do it at the end. but it was really a specific setup, I would never use in long term.

    Well all you need is L2P a new module thats all....
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,175 Arc User
    With the recent changes to Tab, it could be possible to change divinity regen to power usage instead of blocking?

    at-will -> 5% divinity
    Normal Encounter -> 10% divinity
    Divinity Encounter -> 0% divinity
    Daily Power -> 20% divinity

    Well this is an example, those values should be adjusted but we agree that generate divinity with blocking is not the best solucion.

    Other option should be something like the stamina bar, it refills at a reasonable speed with feats or other things to make it faster.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
    Undermontain Survivor
    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
    Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
  • gripnir78gripnir78 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 374 Arc User

    Point blank this is stuff that needs to be done to paladins if you wish to keep more customers

    Remove divinity from paladins no questions asked it is annoying and I am not a cleric......

    Add additional tab key feature, like what we have now on live server where it does cooldowns, but we still also have the option to use you're newer tab key feature but we can still swap between the 2

    Add in atleast 4 more GOOD auras like we have now on live server because you completely lack in the auras section.

    Add in atleast 4 more GOOD encounter powers like we have now on live server.

    Recalculate the Hit points again make sure thats good.

    Return our power-sharing feature that should been the first thing you did with paladins.

    Add in atleast 4 more feats to everyones feat trees.

    These steps above should help you retain more customers and continue to allow for better play style then what you are trying to provide mod 16 and keep the game more unique.

    Some customers have been here long very long time, is this to much to ask? really? please do these things to keep NW alive and maybe regain some customers lost, some people actually care about this game and how it plays, so please fix/add/undo these things above before launch please.


    @asterdahl @nitocris83 @terramak @noworries#8859

    You seem not to be aware that most of your proposal above are exactly reasons why they doing a complete game rework in a first place..... noworries you and other Paladins gone be OK, all you need to do is adopt to the new reality....
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