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Official M16: Warlock

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  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    > @darkzod#9528 said:
    > - creeping dead still does not work properly?

    No. Works on cursed target hit, next hit cancles it untill retrigger, but hey, dots no longer cancel it. 👍
    So, if you plan on cursing, hitting once and running for 12 seconds it kinda works...at least better...somewhat...I guess? 🤔
  • warravanawarravana Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    At-will will help you run with benefit
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • darkzod#9528 darkzod Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    Can someone explain to me what the difference between magical demage boost and physical demage boost is? For Warlock magical dmg boost?
  • hawkeyelhawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User

    Can someone explain to me what the difference between magical demage boost and physical demage boost is? For Warlock magical dmg boost?

    Okay Warlock is like the Wizard in that we do most all of our damage with Magical dmg. Physical damage as an example would be for Barbarian,Fighter ect. that does its damage with a weapon. So yes Warlock would want to build up its magical damage.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    If the damage has a type (fire, necrotic, radiant etc) it appears it’s Magical.

    So..

    All Warlock, Wizard, Cleric and Paladin attacks are Magical.

    Yes I’m sure about Paladin.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Member Posts: 275 Arc User
    Has anyone tested Int vs Dex for the Magical Damage vs Crit Sev bonus? I haven't had time recently and prob won't until the last week before the M16 goes live.
    Main: Angels Scar
    Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    My thinking is Crit has a max 50% chance, so Crit Severity only works 1/2 the time. So unless you can get enough Crit Severity to more than double Int bonus (so 100+2x Damage bonus from Int) then Int is better.

    Remember Vorpal doesn’t show on your sheet.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    From the Rogue thread, but I’d say relevant to us as well:

    > @noworries#8859 said:
    >
    > Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.
    >
    > The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.
    >
    > Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @noworries#8859 said:
    > >
    > > Currently the focus has been heavily on fixing various bugs across classes/features/etc. But there is still room for tweaks to classes.
    > >
    > > The most useful feedback in this regard is discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it.
    > >
    > > Feedback that is along the lines of "change it back to how it used to be" or "rebuild this entire paragon path/class" aren't realistic to action on and therefore are the least likely to result in changes.
    >

    Since there is enough feedback hidden in this threat I gonna wait until it will get a feedback in any patchnote before repeating same issues 10 times.
    "discussions about a given power/feat/mechanic and how it fits in with others/changes that could be made to it"
    That´s what we actually are doing here, it only needs to be recognized by anyone.

    ->Keywords to look for are: near all Encounter, Dailies, Mechanics, Class Feature and Feats are mentioned in this threat and discussed allready, a lot of it is pretty objective and worth thinking about.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • lordtweety#3604 lordtweety Member Posts: 275 Arc User

    My thinking is Crit has a max 50% chance, so Crit Severity only works 1/2 the time. So unless you can get enough Crit Severity to more than double Int bonus (so 100+2x Damage bonus from Int) then Int is better.



    Remember Vorpal doesn’t show on your sheet.

    Thanks, and yeah I'd noticed.
    Main: Angels Scar
    Guild: Ruathym Corsairs
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Patch notes out, I was worried it would just be more tooltip changes. But hey, damaged corrected on a underperforming slow daily. Now warlocks ready to go live I guess since ri and cd feats are both apearantly wai since no change.
  • darkzod#9528 darkzod Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    I do not know, the Warlock still feels weak. Especially in dungeons and battles. He even dies in Master of the Hunt all the time. I have an item level of 17300. What am I doing wrong or is the Warlock really bad? The damage is extremely low and the cooldown times are very long.

    Unfortunately, more emphasis is placed on the Warlock becoming a healer now. :-( It's like a butcher is now pastor.
  • nisckisnisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User

    Has anyone tested Int vs Dex for the Magical Damage vs Crit Sev bonus? I haven't had time recently and prob won't until the last week before the M16 goes live.

    I have neither done the numbers nor test them; theoricaly INT damage bonus (0.25 per point) is multiplicative and DEX bonus (0.5 critical severity per point) is additive to your current critical severity, so in theory INT is always better than DEX because it is aplied to every attack not only to the critical ones because there are quite a handful of damage entities that can't crit at all.
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    He even dies in Master of the Hunt all the time. I have an item level of 17300. What am I doing wrong or is the Warlock really bad?

    You can start checking if your stats are balanced to face enemies roll and just avoid testing on low level maps, as stats are scaled down and several reports about downscaling being too heavy.
    nisckis said:

    INT damage bonus (0.25 per point) is multiplicative and DEX bonus (0.5 critical severity per point) is additive to your current critical severity

    Basically this. Best way to figure things out is checking the stat simulator on janne's website, copying your stats in there and watching the different multiplier you obtain for different scenarios.

    Aside from sparkweaver fixes that looks ok now, but will double check later, there's nothing to remove from last week bug list, I am assuming all of them will see PC live.
    Have a nice week-end.
  • nisckisnisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    I went to preview and I entered an expedition, and once again my stats are now unbalanced, compared to last week that after quite a few hours I managed to mostly balance them. I don't know what they changed or fixed because now almost no stat is balanced, neither for 60K/10K (level 80) nor 66K/16K (unconfirmed LoMM).
  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    nisckis said:

    I went to preview and I entered an expedition, and once again my stats are now unbalanced, compared to last week that after quite a few hours I managed to mostly balance them. I don't know what they changed or fixed because now almost no stat is balanced, neither for 60K/10K (level 80) nor 66K/16K (unconfirmed LoMM).

    There's clearly something broken now, after patch a friend had on a level 70 wizard with m15 gear 122k power/crit/arpen and 780k HP (no augment and tried different summoned companion), have no clue on how to repro.
  • warravanawarravana Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    Talents do not work, half of the spells do not work, around bugs - and it will be released on live. They have not been able to correct mistakes in class skills for a month, the developers answered 2 times on 17 pages of class discussion. I am glad that they cannot earn money, because mediocre people must live in poverty.
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Flames of Phlegethos deals 750 mag, compared to Accursed Souls wich procs in a huge aoe and deals 800 mag per target it´s cute at best, same counts for Gates of Hell..500 mag is far too low. In mod 15 it overcomes Accursed Souls by far, no logic in all those changes.
    From being near on par with Brood, doing some aoe on top, FoPh was nerfed to being useless, dealing less damage than a 30' aoe , not to talk about thes animationtime... unlocked at level 80, stepping up to top level you are rewarded with the worst daily in NWO :)
    -> A daily dealing similar dps than our best encounter Killing flame 400-600, wich spawns a puppet on top and is not ticking 5 times to spend some "burst".

    Creeping Death is still bugged, playing without ACC is still "unhandy", we still can stack Rsiky Investment with only one spell and several allready named Class feature are still useless.
    Looking at my other classes it doesn´t look better tbh. , I dislike the way DC works , GF´s Dig In is a lackluster etc.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @schietindebux said:
    > Flames of Phlegethos deals 750 mag, compared to Accursed Souls wich procs in a huge aoe and deals 800 mag per target it´s cute at best, same counts for Gates of Hell..500 mag is far too low. In mod 15 it overcomes Accursed Souls by far, no logic in all those changes.
    > From being near on par with Brood, doing some aoe on top, FoPh was nerfed to being useless, dealing less damage than a 30' aoe , not to talk about thes animationtime... unlocked at level 80, stepping up to top level you are rewarded with the worst daily in NWO :)
    >
    > Creeping Death is still bugged, playing without ACC is still "unhandy", we still can stack Rsiky Investment with only one spell and several allready named Class feature are still useless.
    > Looking at my other classes it doesn´t look better tbh. , I dislike the way DC works , GF´s Dig In is a lackluster etc.

    ^^ This
    I was just trying point out useless daily change and more useless tooltip changes. This thread just went silent. Can we at least get these two feats working, or better?
  • warravanawarravana Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    Broken vampire embrace will make everyone refuse to game in the DD spec, they have been broken for a month and no one has deigned to fix them. What else can we talk about here?

    The promised "tremendous damage" from the dayly powers turned as a result into ordinary encounter skills.

    Half of the talents of the six who do not work. It's so difficult to made at least basic things for a whole month!

    We should not ask them for "at least something" working out of all that was promised. We have to demand that the class can play in 2 weeks, and not be a statistical position in the developers' reports.
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • isurk#9289 isurk Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    > @warravana said:
    > We should not ask them for "at least something" working out of all that was promised. We have to demand that the class can play in 2 weeks, and not be a statistical position in the developers' reports.

    Требовать от кого?
    Ау.
    Тут на 17 страниц аж 3 поста от разработчиков. В патчах фиксы и правки, которые никому не нужны и неинтересны.
    Мы сделали стрелу боевым для одной цели, а потом 2 патча возвращали все взад. Лол.
    Расходимся
    Нас нае****
    Writing reports... that no one reads.
    You shouldn't waste your time on feedback.
  • silverwolf#7884 silverwolf Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    Soul Investiture

    Soul Investiture stacking takes such a long time for the Warlock and isn't truly viable in Mob scenarios when running in dungeons, you will at best, gain two stacks of Soul Investiture before everything is dead. Given the slow build speed, the mechanic feels more aligned to a boss fight than to mobs.

    The Warlock only has two powers that can grant Soul Investiture : Hadar's Grasp and Killings Flames.
    Hadar's Grasp will grant Soul Investiture on a cursed target; cooldown : 15.5 seconds.
    Killing Flames will grant Soul Investiture on killing a target; cooldown : 12.4 seconds.

    In a boss fight where no "adds" are present the Warlock is only left with one encounter with which to gain Soul Investiture, namely Hadar's Grasp.
    With a cast time of 0.55 seconds and a cooldown of 15.5 seconds it takes the Warlock 1 minute and 20 seconds to build up to full stacks of Soul Investiture (5 * 16 seconds = 80 seconds [not including cast time of first Curse application power]).
    This puts the Warlock at a serious disadvantage and also forces the Warlock to choose Hadar's Grasp thus limiting play diversity.

    Hadar's Grasp is a curse consume power and the consumption of the curse spawns the soul puppet and gains a stack of Soul Investiture.

    It would make sense to gain a stack of Soul Investiture on every cast of a curse consume encounter power. Note that I state cast and not curse consumption as Curse Bite would gain full stacks with one cast.
  • silverwolf#7884 silverwolf Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    Curse Synergy
    Encounter Consume Synergy Apply
    Killing Flames X
    Vampiric Embrace X
    Dreadtheft X
    Hadar's Grasp X
    Curse Bite X
    Fiery Bolt X
    Infernal Spheres X (Chance)
    Arms of Hadar X
    Blades of Vanquished Armies X
    Hellfire Ring X
    As you can see from the table above, the Warlock has two curse synergy powers; curse synergy is supposed to enhance the usage of that power, but these enhancements are lacklustre.

    Dreadtheft

    Dreadtheft refreshes the ticks of Lesser Curse. Lesser Curse ticks 4 times per encounter power cast and strikes for a magnitude of 2.5. It doesn't deal a great amount of damage but it's a Lesser Curse and we don't expect it to but as a synergy it's not great.

    Suggestion
    Curse Synergy : Dreadtheft will refresh and double the damage of Lesser Curse on all affected targets

    - or -

    Curse Synergy : Dreadtheft will fire off and hit all targets affected by any curse (Target cap 10). In a similar way to how the Lightning Weapon Enchantment works; not only will this look really cool it will also help to make up for the power interruption that happens when you're attacked by an enemy when this power is active. A big reason why this power wasn't used so much until Mod 15.



    Blades of Vanquished Armies

    Blades of Vanquished Armies seems at odds with how the Warlock has been positioned as a ranged class. All of the powers in the DPS tree are either ranged or can be cast at range, even the Infernal Spheres will shoot off and attack a cursed target. BoVA deals 11 hits to every target that enters into the blade radius with an additional 4 hits to any one cursed target per cast from the flung blades.
    In a scenario where I am against 1 target within range of the blades the curse synergy will result in (1 enemy * 11) + 4 = 15 hits on the enemy. That's a 36.36% increase to the power.
    When I'm in a mob with 6 enemies within range of the blades the curse synergy will result in (6 enemies * 11) + 4 = 59 hits in total on the enemies. That's an increase of 6.06%

    You can see that the synergy becomes worse with more enemies that you are engaged in combat with.

    This power only generates Soul Sparks on a critical strike which means that should the Warlock choose to use this encounter they must move within melee range and negate their armour giving them a bonus based on their distance from the target or run with All Consuming Curse.


    Suggestion

    Curse Synergy : For every cursed target, 11 Blades will fling themselves at that target over 3 seconds (1st tick = 1 blade, 2nd tick = 3 blades and last tick = 7 blades). This will look really cool, especially with a similar sound effect played per blade strike to that off Forgemaster's Flames from the DC. It will also allow the Warlock to play at range increasing the diversity in play styles.

    - or -

    Swap Blades of Vanquished Armies to a curse apply power and Killing Flames to a Curse Synergy power as follows:

    Curse Synergy : Killing Flames will deal an additional 20% damage as Fire Damage over 3 seconds to the target. You could add this as a splash effect to all cursed targets near the main target.


  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    @silverwolf#7884 your table only gives the raw numbers and does not allow for the effect of the enemies loosing 30% of their HP. Anything that didn’t get an actual reduction got an effective improvement and things with actual reductions largely stayed the same (some got slightly worse, others got slightly better).

    In simple terms for at-wills if they used to hit for 20 and the enemy had 1000 HP, they used to do 2% with a hit. With the change that enemy now has 700 HP and that same 20 damage is 2.86%. Yes that’s simplistic, but the principle remains, lowering the hp and leaving damage unchanged in effect raises the damage.

    Even things like Arms of Hadar are actually an improvement for the power’s effective damage.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • warravanawarravana Member Posts: 30 Arc User



    We have no AOE at-wills so the damage increase nowories describes in another thread doesn't apply to us. Unless you include Eldritch Blast's third hit. So, yeah, we don't have any AOE at-wills. Curse Bite and Arm's of Hadar are the closest things we have to AOE at-wills because of the casting times. And well, they kinda hit like at-wills so maybe that was the intention for them?

    Power Magnitude Before At-Will changes Magnitude after At-Will changes
    Eldritch Blast 20-40 20-20 Overall reduction
    Dark Spiral Charge 70-210 70-210 No change
    Hellish Rebuke 30-30 (DoT 7) 30-30 (DoT 7.5) No change, the DoT was incorrectly dealing 7.5 magnitude before the change
    Hand of Blight 20-20 25-25 Overall reduction
    Killing Flames 500-750 400-600 Overall reduction
    Vampiric Embrace 250-250 200-200 Overall reduction
    Dreadtheft 350-350 275-275 Overall reduction
    Hadar's Grasp 200-200 175-175 Overall reduction
    Curse Bite 220-220 175-175 Overall reduction
    Fiery Bolt 160-160 125-125 Overall reduction
    Infernal Spheres 30-30 per sphere (6) 30-30 per sphere (6) no change
    Arms of Hadar 50-50 40-40 Overall reduction
    Blades of Vanquished Armies 18-18 per blade (11) 15-15 per blade (11) Overall reduction
    Hellfire Ring 100-100 (DoT 225) 80-80 (DoT 220) Overall reduction plus the DoT is only dealing 161 Magnitude (7 Apr 2019)
    Accursed Souls 1400 800 Overall reduction
    Brood of Hadar 2200 (DoT was not listed) 2200 (DoT 200) No change however the recorded magnitude is 1159 with a DoT of 100
    Tyrannical Curse 1000 800 Overall reduction
    Gates of Hell 900 per target 500 per target Overall reduction
    Flames of Phlegethos 1250(splash not listed) 750 splash damage 150 Overall reduction
    Not only do we have no AoE at-will to really benefit from the changes that @noworries#8859 mentioned but also the table above shows that the only actual "improvement" was an increase to the min damage of Hand of Blight, all other at-wills remained the same or worse than before the reduction to encounter/daily powers.
    Hey Hey! After the last patches the magnitude of skills is much lower than in this table!
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • silverwolf#7884 silverwolf Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    warravana said:


    Hey Hey! After the last patches the magnitude of skills is much lower than in this table!

    I've just checked them, perhaps you read the wrong column; column 3 has the latest values; they're all correct with the exception of Brood of Hadar which has had the tooltip updated to read 550 Magnitude and Brood of 100 Magnitude which is what it's currently doing now.
  • silverwolf#7884 silverwolf Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Soul Spark Recovery

    Soul Spark recovery is not reducing the encounter cooldowns correctly. For every 6 sparks spent on Soul Scorch all encounters on cooldown should reduce by 1 second, but when tested, 18 sparks were consumed and the cooldowns were only reduced by 2 seconds.


    The following table states the time in the video to the thousandths of a second. The video has been added to the test document (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BZDyP5JQfvEG7R4gsovEh9ugpPOTKff1).

    I don't care about the hundredths or thousandths of a second being slightly out, that's fine. This level of granularity helps to highlight the normal cooldown count from the Soul Spark Recovery.
    Video Time
    mm:ss:thousandths
    Hadar's Grasp
    (15.5 sec cooldown)
    Note Killing Flames
    (12.4 sec cooldown)
    Note
    00:12.133 16 -
    00:12.633 15 0.5 seconds -
    00:13.267 15 13
    00:13.700 14 1.067 seconds 12 0.433 seconds
    00:14.467 14 12 18 Soul Sparks consumed
    00:14.500 12 10 Soul Spark Reduction Occurs
    00:14.733 11 1.033 seconds 9 1.033 seconds
    00:15.633 10 0.9 seconds 9
    00:15.766 10 8 1.033 seconds
    00:16.733 9 7 0.967 seconds
    00:17.667 8 0.934 seconds 7
    00:17.733 8 6 1 second
    00:18.667 7 1 second 6
    00:18.767 7 5 1.033 seconds
    00:19.367 4 3 18 Soul Sparks consumed and Reduction Occurs
    00:19.433 4 2 0.666 seconds
    00:20.300 3 1.633 seconds 2
    Given the values, it's clear to see that the reduction is only 2 seconds. The second reduction might look like it's 3 seconds on Hadar's Grasp but I suspect that the cooldown timer was reset at a second interval resulting in the 1.633 seconds it took for a normal "1 second reduction" to occur.


    Suggestion

    The initial 6 sparks that the Warlock has are consumed but I'd check to see if these have been omitted from the time reduction calculation that is performed when this power is used.
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