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Official M16: Stats and Mechanics

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  • demonmongerdemonmonger Posts: 3,260Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • dottorlandidottorlandi Posts: 9Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    The MoD 16 is the death of the game. Many like me will no longer play. Why don't the developers listen to us? Why do they destroy everything we love about the game? We spent so much money in this game why can't we stop all this disaster?
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 954Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    @thefabricant @rainer#8575 any formulas to know the real value of the damage of encounter powers, at-wills and daily powers, because that magnitude description is so messed up, i like to know the real damage they do. ty in advance, if anyone will make a video about it aswell will be appreciated.
  • rainer#8575 rainer Posts: 181Member Arc User
    > @arcanjo86 said:
    > @thefabricant @rainer#8575 any formulas to know the real value of the damage of encounter powers, at-wills and daily powers, because that magnitude description is so messed up, i like to know the real damage they do. ty in advance, if anyone will make a video about it aswell will be appreciated.

    Planning to make a video and a calculator on this subject... actually Janne's website covers the calculation very accurately, so if you need the answer fast I would advise you to go there :-)
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 618Member Arc User
    edited March 30
    Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    The new stat caps for LoMM are :
    • Armor Penetration 60k
    • Critical Strike 55k
    • Accuracy 60k
    • Combat Advantage 100k
    • Defense 60k
    • Critical Resist 65k
    • Deflect 60k
    • Awareness 70k
    Post edited by artifleur on
  • nisckisnisckis Posts: 523Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30
    I have been testing level 80 and critters seem to be 10K/60K.

    It's kinda funny that a dummy can dodge an attack, and even funnier that critters can dodge DoT effects.
  • dottorlandidottorlandi Posts: 9Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    IN MODEL 16 THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME CHANGES IN A RADICAL WAY AND IN A HORRIBLE WAY, I WOULD LIKE A REPLY TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE REASON FOR THE GAME DEVELOPERS WANT US PLAYERS STOP PLAYING FOR EVER.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,187Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30
    critical chance is way too high for end game build even if i change enchants is over
    artifleur said:

    Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    The new stat caps for LoMM are :

    • Armor Penetration 66k
    • Critical Strike 61k
    • Accuracy 66k
    • Combat Advantage 106k
    • Defense 96k
    • Critical Resist 71k
    • Deflect 66k
    • Awareness 76k


    mobs have
    60000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike
    other stats are 10k.
    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,330Member Arc User
    I don't know if this is a practical suggestion, but it struck me that it might be a good idea if the (typical) Mount Bonus was changed to a bonus to the relevant Percentage chance rather than the flat stat bonus currently?

    That way, whatever you do with stats and ratios, those big spend, highly desirable, items such as Legendary Mounts will feel equally as effective if the value of the stat changes (such as dropping the ratio from 500:1 to 1000:1).
    It's hard to swallow that a green companion (that I got for nothing) giving a +2 or 3% bonus is completely unaffected by this change but most Legendary Mounts are cut in half by comparison.

    Just an idea...
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,116Member Arc User
    edited March 30

    Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications.

    • Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation.
    There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage.

    As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live.
    High there, Warlocks "At Wills" still seem to be from no importance actually in the damagetabe (10%) same as Dailies (4%).
    Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced.
    Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power.
    /sarcasm off
    Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way.
    Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • agodbeaagodbea Posts: 37Member Arc User
    So can healing crit and if so how is the crit% decided?
  • douglasopferbeckdouglasopferbeck Posts: 38Member Arc User
    > @schietindebux said:
    > Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications.
    > * Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation.
    >
    >
    > There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage.
    >
    > As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live.
    >
    > High there, Warlocks "At Wills" still seem to be from no importance actually in the damagetabe (10%) same as Dailies (4%).
    > Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced.
    > Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power.
    > Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way.
    > Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?

    Good gods, lowering the warlock encounter damage without lowering critter hit points would result only in warlocks doing even crappier damage then other classes. Yes, they need to take into account warlocks don’t benefit from the at will balance attempt. This is NOT even vaguely a solution.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,116Member Arc User
    edited March 30

    > @schietindebux said:

    > Now that preview has been going for several weeks now and there has been an immense level of feedback for us to review, we have made some core changes to further improve the balance. These will likely go to preview later this week, barring any complications.

    > * Encounter and Daily magnitudes have been brought down, making At-Will powers more effective in relation.

    >

    >

    > There has been no shortage of talk about At-Wills not feeling meaningful enough to want to use. While mathematically over the course of a fight, or dungeon run, they added up to a significant amount of damage, it didn't feel that way due to the size of individual hits. To bring At-Wills closer to other powers, we reduced the magnitudes of Encounter and Dailies and reduced overall critter health to adjust for the lower overall damage.

    >

    > As with all aspects, further changes could happen before this goes live.

    >

    > High there, Warlocks "At Wills" still seem to be from no importance actually in the damagetabe (10%) same as Dailies (4%).

    > Mayby you need to nerf encounter damage for this class for another 200%, leading to a significant impact from AT Wills and making damagetable balanced.

    > Or you lift Encounter-Cooldowns for 200%+, by that we have to fill the gap with At Will powers, maybe both is needed to deal 20%+ damage like GWF with At Will power.

    > Or maybe take into acount that some classes don´t use At Wills that often, having "low mag power" with 10 second cooldown from high recovery same as a 3 second encounter reset on top and will never deal a significant ammount of damage with AT Will powers at all that way.

    > Better do "fine-tuning" to some classes next time over a flat change of all powers for all classes, obviously not knowing exactly, how classes are played and generate dps actually, even though it´s the class you do represant in the feedbackthread, at least I think you do?



    Good gods, lowering the warlock encounter damage without lowering critter hit points would result only in warlocks doing even crappier damage then other classes. Yes, they need to take into account warlocks don’t benefit from the at will balance attempt. This is NOT even vaguely a solution.

    I wanted to point at the fact that some classes are not played as a melee class, if devs really tink all classes should be played as a GWF they should tell us. Give us a Silversword then.


  • samfandango#1314 samfandango Posts: 23Member Arc User
    Haven't checked the previous posts so this not continuous in the thread.

    I will say this for the stat changes:

    I tried Undermountain using the provided gear from Neverember as a new toon on preview pre-patch. Needless to say it did not go very well at all.

    Today, post-patch, it is a lot smoother. Bearing in mind my preview toon has at best the provided gear, no insignia bonuses, mostly white companions and PBs, green preview artifacts.

    An improvement at such a low level, must also have an improved performance at higher levels (or at least I'd guess so).

    It certainly appears this patch has improved the "new" player experience.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,116Member Arc User

    Haven't checked the previous posts so this not continuous in the thread.



    I will say this for the stat changes:



    I tried Undermountain using the provided gear from Neverember as a new toon on preview pre-patch. Needless to say it did not go very well at all.



    Today, post-patch, it is a lot smoother. Bearing in mind my preview toon has at best the provided gear, no insignia bonuses, mostly white companions and PBs, green preview artifacts.



    An improvement at such a low level, must also have an improved performance at higher levels (or at least I'd guess so).



    It certainly appears this patch has improved the "new" player experience.

    a lot smoother?
    Critters die like flies I´d say, having decent gear, not balanced in my world.

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,187Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30

    When i scale down for 70 content all my stats are lower and i dont have the penetration i need 54k vs 57k.
    when i do 80 content my stats are capped.


    is that a bug or the scaling meant to be like this?
    Post edited by mamalion1234 on
  • artifleurartifleur Posts: 618Member Arc User


    mobs have
    60000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike
    other stats are 10k.

    Corrected. Thanks!
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,187Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30
    artifleur said:


    mobs have
    60000 ratings for Defense, Deflect, Combat Advantage, and Critical Strike
    other stats are 10k.

    Corrected. Thanks!
    watch the screenshots above you because of the scaling you need to put more penetration to able to do 70 content.i have no idea if is intended to be like this.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,764Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    nisckis said:

    I have been testing level 80 and critters seem to be 10K/60K.

    What about critters inside LoMM?

    Make NWO great again, please....
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,764Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30

    IN MODEL 16 THE MECHANICS OF THE GAME CHANGES IN A RADICAL WAY AND IN A HORRIBLE WAY, I WOULD LIKE A REPLY TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE REASON FOR THE GAME DEVELOPERS WANT US PLAYERS STOP PLAYING FOR EVER.

    First, it is "Module", not "Model". Second, your CapsLock key seems to be stuck. Third, the reasons for the changes are probably the following:
    • The calculations in the game were getting too heavy, with all the different conditionally-activated powers and such. This could cause lag. Hence, simplified bonuses - generally not requiring heavy calculations.
    • The complexity of the code made it hard to maintain, partially because some of the developers who wrote the code originally are gone. So, everything is simplified.
    • Power sharing and lifesteal resulted in real issues with balancing the difficulty of content and the silly situation of players being either dead or at full HP...nothing in between. Healers were not wanted.
    • Excessive buffs made a big difference between parties with great buffers and parties with "bad" buffers. By mostly removing buffing, differences in performance between "good" groups and "bad" groups should be reduced.
    • Having feat/boon/stat choices that made an actual difference made characters too "variable", so all the choices had to be made meaningless to make it easier to "balance" everything. This also made the game less complicated for certain segments of the player community.
    • Everyone was using the same set of companions, so companions buffs were removed - so the difference between those with the "best" companions and those with "average" companions is minimized.
    Post edited by adinosii on
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • sireinsirein Posts: 1Member Arc User
    Just so you know this latest update killed allot of classes the players who were crying about at wills not doing much dmg were players who still think buffs is meta and at -wills were fine........ what you really did was nerf our main source of dps (encounters/dailies) and buffed something that didnt need a buff (buff is unnoticeable btw so its just a hard nerf for classes like paladin who depended alot on encounter power to clear mobs since they have a mana bar( divinity) and a 10% debuff to dps........ if players were complaining about at wills then just put another 10-25 magnitude on them dont nerf encounters and dailies when it wasnt needed for example paladins now have a weaker clear with a pool of 1000 divinity they can only use like 4 banes which does no dmg ....... so was the NERF (this isnt a adjustment its a nerf) worth it ........ most lowbie plays and paladins would agree that the nerf was not worth it much like the dig in class mechanic for fighters this "update" has no point ...... maybe other than shuting up the player who whine that at wills do no dmg without thinking that something that takes no resources and has no cooldown shouldnt be too impactful
  • nisckisnisckis Posts: 523Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30
    adinosii said:

    nisckis said:

    I have been testing level 80 and critters seem to be 10K/60K.

    What about critters inside LoMM?

    I have not tested LoMM :disappointed:
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Posts: 954Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    check weapons artifact modification, they now add stats rating and utility stats ratings and no longer give extra effects to at-wills(a way to make at-wills important @noworries#8859 ) and class features.
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,187Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 30
  • samfandango#1314 samfandango Posts: 23Member Arc User
    @schietindebux I guess that is subjective. People will either complain that mobs die to easily or that they take twice as long to kill now.

    Problem with feedback from different ends of the spectrum is that there is never a real happy medium.

    So what do (the devs) do? Who do we satisfy?
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Posts: 3,128Member Arc User
    edited March 30
    imo this needs a ton of balancing at this point. the difficulty is greater than is pleasurable. I have a bunch of level 13 plus enchants on my toon. I outfitted a new arti set and a new armor set. but didn't balance any stats. then I tried to solo cn. (and don't focus on solo cn pls I was just looking for an entry level but difficult mob to test against, I wasn't trying to solo the whole thing. I couldn't remember which zone in underdark had level 80 mobs) and the first group of demons was untouchable. they were HAMSTER slapping me dead over and over I couldn't even get a look at what my stats were with a comp.

    what this says to me is that it is unlikely lower level dungeons are going to be doable even with a group. (of randoms) and people who do have balanced stats will not waste time on helping lower levels. if they do random it will be in premades only unless the dungeon chest rewards are retweaked in all the old dungeons to make it worth running at the same difficulty level as the end game dungeons. that is true probably regardless though, the lower level dungeons are only worth running even now for the random reward and because it's quick. so unless rewards are tweaked no one will touch lower level dungeons going forward.

    I haven't found a level 80 zone yet but if you make it so that people have to spend hours killing random mobs in the wild people just won' tbother and will go find something else to do. that's not fun.

    please dont focus so much on stats and balancing that you lose track of fun because that IS what will make the lower levels AND the higher levels move on. what's going on here just isn't fun or rewarding.
    xbox guild

    Main toons
    Tiberius Rex SW Combat hr 17.4k
    Rincewind CW 18k


    PC imaginary friends special events only

  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    Well, because of scaling and stat differences and stuffs, dungeons are harder than running random level 80 mobs in zones yeah?
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Posts: 3,187Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    Well, because of scaling and stat differences and stuffs, dungeons are harder than running random level 80 mobs in zones yeah?

    level 80 dungeon is easier than the level 70 dungeons because the scaling you need to focus to some stats you cant have every stat capped.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Posts: 257Member Arc User
    edited April 3
    The current scaling system scales poorly, lacks cap space for critical hit%, and severely caps the effectiveness of awareness, accuracy, crit resist, and armor penetration at extreme low levels.

    New topic created for current scaling needs and concerns:
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1247050/truescale-system

    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
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