test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Why NW Might Win The Battle But Lose The War

I’ve really been thinking about Mod 16 as of late and I think I know where they want to go with the new Neverwinter but I think it’s problematic but not for reasons many people may think.

First off, before we get into specifics we need to establish a few hard facts of life.

* Neverwinter, as it is now, is a sinking ship otherwise these new changes would not be so severe. I think the dev team is really, in all sincerity, trying to make it better. We should be more sympathetic to what they are trying to do. Really.

* With Mod 16 NW will lose a ton of players. There is no getting around that. Depending on what studies you read the loss will be between 30 to 70 percent of the player base but that in itself is not specifically a bad thing. It is, for lack of a better term, trimming the fat because, as harsh as this sounds, if you are not spending money, the powers that be don’t want you playing. You are a drag on the system. The real issue is how many of the 10-20 percent of players that bring 80% or more of the game’s revenue will stay and how many new players will spend. (This issue is really important and I will speak to below more in depth.)

*The devs and system people do not make the big decisions about the direction of the game. The C-level (upper management) corporate suits do that. That is not to say the devs don’t have input (that is very important and taken to heart) but at the end of the day, the bean counters call the shots.

*The purpose of Neverwinter is not only to make money but to make profit. If this doesn’t happen, the game goes away. Cryptic is not a charity. People need to buy Zen for the game to stay viable.

Now, that that is out of the way, we can get more into why I think NW is in real trouble of sinking with Mod 16.

As I said above, people need to spend real money to keep NW afloat. We all know this. This is not a surprise.

I will admit, I don’t know for sure, but I suspect, in the past, there have been only a handful of Zen items that bring in most of the revenue. They are, in no particular order, mounts, companions, coalescent and preservation wards, keys, and to some extent level tokens. As well as people cashing in Zen for AD to purchase things that they can only get in the AH.

Now, in the past, these items have been very significant to the success to our characters. Usually, when we purchased a new item, there was a definable and immediate improvement in our character’s combat or other non-combat mechanics which gives us that reward feeling in the happy centre of our brain. This is, in fact, why we spend money on attaining them in the first place and herein lies the issue with Mod 16's profitability, as I see it.

If you look at the items I listed above, that has historically brought in so much revenue, there is a new common thread amongst them. They have all been nerfed into the ground as far as how much they affect our character.

The devs have mentioned, many times that mechanics in M16, are going to be more inherently important than just flat stats. Indeed, they have taken away many of our ways to affect stats so we will focus on mechanics. Which is all well and good expect, then so much of reasons (motivation) we need/want items such as mounts/companions/enchants are not nearly as immediately rewarding.

In the past if you slotted a new high end item, it was like wow! I can do this or that so much better! Now however, the devs have said in M16 these things will not have nearly as important (read as rewarding) affect on our characters. So why buy them? Or should I say, why buy them as often?

In the past, there was a real, almost visceral, need to upgrade that weapon or armour enchantment. But now? Meh.. Will it be worth it? Or, will it be worth spending real money instead of just waiting to get enough AD to do it for free? I don’t know but from what I have seen, played and read about M16, I have serious doubts.

Don’t get me wrong, there is a population of NW players that will probably spend like the old days but with the population that will drop off after M16, NW will be dependant on new players to a certain extent.

Now imagine being a new player. You have never played NW before and you go ahead and buy some Zen so you can have that shiny new mount or companion but once you have it, was it worth it?

I can tell you the first items I purchased as a new player made such a big difference I was like, “Shut up and take my money!”. But if I was that person playing post M16 for the first time? With as hard as it already is starting out in M16? I would seriously doubt my willingness to spend/invest more in items that don’t seem to make that much of a difference.

So, if this is their actual model to save NW, I’m more than a bit worried. Is it sustainable? Because no matter how great they make it technically, it has to be two things. One, it has to be fun (especially to a new player AND those who stay after M16) and two, it has to be rewarding enough to get people to spend real money.

Will it be? What do you think?

Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
«1

Comments

  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,482 Arc User
    edited March 2019


    * With Mod 16 NW will lose a ton of players. There is no getting around that. Depending on what studies you read the loss will be between 30 to 70 percent of the player base but that in itself is not specifically a bad thing. It is, for lack of a better term, trimming the fat because, as harsh as this sounds, if you are not spending money, the powers that be don’t want you playing. You are a drag on the system. The real issue is how many of the 10-20 percent of players that bring 80% or more of the game’s revenue will stay and how many new players will spend. (This issue is really important and I will speak to below more in depth.)

    *The devs and system people do not make the big decisions about the direction of the game. The C-level (upper management) corporate suits do that. That is not to say the devs don’t have input (that is very important and taken to heart) but at the end of the day, the bean counters call the shots.

    While not crucial to the overall sentiment of the post, I would like to address those points:

    I don't know any actual numbers, but I will not argue the 20% of the players pay 80% of the income, but the rest of the 80% of the players are not a "drag on the system". Those 20% alone are not enough to create an ecosystem. You need a mass of people to group, to drive the economy, the socialize and in large to become an incentive to catch-up by paying.
    Removing too many of that segment will crash the game, essentially the same way as removing the paying segment.

    About the second point, I would disagree. There is a tendency to blame too much and excuse too much due to incorporeal management. From all their blogs, streams, and any insider glimpses this is not how it works. They are a standalone subsidiary and as long as it's profitable, it is its own manager.
    On the inside, each title (Neverwinter in our case) group works the same way, as long as it works as expected, it works.
    Each subgroup, systems, software, QA, etc.. have their own lead.

    In this overall concept, you have a meeting, usually by the relevant leads (or all of them), where issues are brought up, and prioritized. The on a followup meeting, solutions are 'pitched', presenting what is wrong now, how you can improve it, how long it will take, how many resources needed from each department.

    For example, one such meeting around mod 12-13 can be "Professions sucks", "we can allocate some time for it towards mod 15", then a new, one or more, design is proposed which will take some UI design, some software changes, and a lot of systems time. It's pitched, some changes probably proposed, iterations, further refinement of ideas, until eventually it's 'signed' bottom to top, systems, lead NW and it goes into the schedule.

    Higher will oversee, but I don't believe there is that level of micromanagement that warrant that level of blame. The idea is more of, if too many things fail, leads replaced.

    So they all part of the decision making process, they all have responsibility. It is true, that not everyone will like they decided outcome, or 'voted' for it, but still the group leads are those responsible for those ideas and their implementation.

    Bean counters do not understand counter-stats, class balance, group content, vs zones, etc.. It's not their job, their interest is the bottom line. Retention, income, and expenses.
    Post edited by micky1p00 on
  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,370 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:


    Bean counters do not understand counter-stats, class balance, group content, vs zones, etc.. It's not their job, their interest is the bottom line. Retention, income, and expenses.

    Hey hey, some of us business snakes take offense to that.

  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    It's a nihilistic take, but I'd kind of be happy if Neverwinter shut down, if only because of the ever so slight possibility that would open up the IP for some other company or product. I was really annoyed when Neverwinter launched as an MMO today, and continue to be annoyed. So if Mod 16 really is the mod to destroy Neverwinter (like people have said about every mod ever-well okay mostly just mods 6 and 15), then it is what it is.

    Mostly though, I think people overreact. Neverwinter is going to keep on keeping on, y'know?
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    I do often get the feeling that much of Mod 16's changes are geared toward reducing resources needed to maintain it. It is likely that Neverwinter is being put on a Backburner so they can devote resources to their newer projects. This may not be the end of the game yet but i am getting the feeling that it is beginning to wind down.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • draugkirdraugkir Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Its a sinking ship that will get such a big romb with mod 16 that will be done for good.

    And technically is a fail.. and a big one.
    Game in preview atm is full o bugs exploits and things that dont make sense at all.
    Will be taking them months and months to fix everything.

    That is never gonna happen cos, as we know, in all theese years they were never able to fix simple bugs and issues that still persist in the game atm.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    it makes no sense for them to want to get rid of a big portion of the player base. even if those players are doing nothing having numbers showing you logged on is a powerful tool for gaining gathering and keeping the interest of investors and or any advertising they may wish to do.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    it makes no sense for them to want to get rid of a big portion of the player base. even if those players are doing nothing having numbers showing you logged on is a powerful tool for gaining gathering and keeping the interest of investors and or any advertising they may wish to do.

    I mean, unless they want to cut Neverwinter loose and are trying to minimize expenses, rather than maximize revenue.
  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Member Posts: 208 Arc User

    it makes no sense for them to want to get rid of a big portion of the player base. even if those players are doing nothing having numbers showing you logged on is a powerful tool for gaining gathering and keeping the interest of investors and or any advertising they may wish to do.

    old adage . . . best laid plans etc.

    often results have nothing to do with intent.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Well, I see this as NWO 3.0. I see it as attempt to downsize and simplify the game to a level that is manageable by current staff size. Will this kill the game? Maybe. Maybe not. I think the ultimate decision there will be made in mods 17-19. If simplifying the characters takes enough of a load off the team that they can finally fix and address bugs and create enough new content to actually keep people playing between mods for more than a week or two, then I think NW will be fine. If it doesn't and they can't do that, it might be a sinking ship. But you make a good point. They need people to buy things. Which means there needs to a certain amount of incentivizing to buy. The devaluation of things people buy is not a good thing.
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 534 Arc User
    The Zen market has long missed the mark of offering items of value. Sure there have been things I've considered buying, but I always ask myself if this is worth $20, $50, $100, then answer for me is usually no. I've thrown around $125 at the game over three years and would put more in, but there is either no reason to (ADX is healthy on Xbox and making AD is easy) or you need a massive amount of cash for it to make a difference (R14 Enchant costs ≈ $10 but alone means nothing, legendary mount is 7 million AD (Zax at 425 is over 16k Zen)). I don't know, maybe there are enough people willing to spend money like that on the game to keep it going.
    Froger - Barbie Girl in a Barbie World - Almost Geared to Be Main Again - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Jade - Cleric - Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - Queue Runner - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User

    dmittedly, this wasn’t a scientific test and it was only one person. So, as far as how valid it is concerning our worries about MOD16? I don’t really know, but it is serious food for thought.

    Honestly, It's nothing more than an anecdotal account to support your viewpoint (which I can't say I completely disagree with since at the end of the day we're all here for fun).

    Your story doesn't really offer up anything in the broader scheme that hasn't been said already. And you kind of threw your friend into what you essentially knew was a broken mod that is still undergoing many changes.

    It's not only unscientific, but wholly subjective. As such it's not much of a meal to waste much though on.

    I also question how much you value this friend since you decided to subject him to Neverwinter in any form ;)
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    I don't understand why they are turning it into a 15 year old MMORPG, slow, tedious, predictable, sluggish. While at the same making character development more akin to premade characters in Fortnite.

    It if were made into either a more strategic MMORPG _or_ a more action oriented game to target people who grew up with action based games (including those of other genres) it would all make a lot more sense to me. But Mod 16 is more like taking the pace from Dark Souls and the strategy of a Musou.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User

    I don't understand why they are turning it into a 15 year old MMORPG, slow, tedious, predictable, sluggish. While at the same making character development more akin to premade characters in Fortnite.

    It if were made into either a more strategic MMORPG _or_ a more action oriented game to target people who grew up with action based games (including those of other genres) it would all make a lot more sense to me. But Mod 16 is more like taking the pace from Dark Souls and the strategy of a Musou.

    I suspect they want to port the game to mobile or Switch. So, making it simpler will make that easier. Just a guess, I have no inside information.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User

    dmittedly, this wasn’t a scientific test and it was only one person. So, as far as how valid it is concerning our worries about MOD16? I don’t really know, but it is serious food for thought.

    Honestly, It's nothing more than an anecdotal account to support your viewpoint (which I can't say I completely disagree with since at the end of the day we're all here for fun).

    Your story doesn't really offer up anything in the broader scheme that hasn't been said already. And you kind of threw your friend into what you essentially knew was a broken mod that is still undergoing many changes.

    It's not only unscientific, but wholly subjective. As such it's not much of a meal to waste much though on.

    I also question how much you value this friend since you decided to subject him to Neverwinter in any form ;)
    I did go out of my way to say as much. Plus, we gave the "tester" no preconceived indication of what he should expect. Our premise is that we wanted his honest opinion on both versions as someone who hadn't played either before or had any expectations of either version. Yes, it was anecdotal but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth in the results either.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    Yes, it was anecdotal but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth in the results either.

    Indeed. I mean, it is a fact that the gameplay changes a lot between M15 and M16 (more for some classes than others). My personal experience is that combat with groups of trash typically takes twice as long as it used to do and in some cases I have to spend a lot of time on boring activities (like pressing Tab for 20 seconds after each group of trash to recharge).

    Now, I am hoping things will improve before this goes live, because otherwise there is a risk of some players leaving for some other, less boring game,
    Hoping for improvements...
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    A lot of players is a distinct possibility. The number of us that have been here since before it became a fast paced game isn't that large anymore, even fewer on consoles where it was never really slow. A sudden shift in pace like this is going to be exactly the thing a lot players need to be that last push out the door. Mods have been getting content light, which means people need to put in less time. Now with a slow game and less to do, why stay? It's not what they downloaded to play. They are really going to have to pick up the pace and quality of future game updates if they have any chance of succeeding, and that's only if M16 isn't a complete disaster.

    I mean, worst case scenario is the game shuts down entirely and the IP gets used for something else by someone else, so I say, just embrace the unknown!
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    vendood said:



    His impressions? He loved Neverwinter, the place. He loved the stories and campaigns and all that. Loved the look and feel of things and albeit, it’s wasn’t cutting edge technically, it was more than entertaining enough from that POV. However, his thoughts on actually playing? Three words that kept coming up, tedious, boring and unrewarding.

    He pointed out that it never felt as if he was getting better, as in more powerful. Even though he got all the best gear he could from playing, he never felt, even with new spells/abilities, it made that much of a difference. Sure new spells did more damage but because the scaling was so severe and cool downs were so long, he never enjoyed his new equipment/spells because he never felt more powerful. It was the same slog over and over and the rewards were extremely lacklustre. He said a few times, playing “just wasn’t fun.”


    This is the problem with long running MMO games. The original designers generally have a new concept, a big vision, and they know they are competing to enter a busy marketplace, so they bring their 'A' game and really bust their butts to make something worthwhile.

    Then, the game continues, the players come in, the money starts flowing, and the challenge of creating a 'brave new world' slides into that of 'tweaking things to make them better, or adding something a little new this month to keep players engaged'. At this point, real visionaries and designers and creators tend to start getting bored, and the 'bean counters' tend to start making noises about 'why are we keeping all these expensive people on staff when they aren't really needed any more'?

    (By the way, bean counters and management do not set the tone of game changes in any dev company I am aware of... they may set targets and issues directives like "we need 50% more cash shop items", but they have nothing at all to say about things like "You know, rolling your stats for each character just isn't efficient. Stop that." But they do greatly affect ongoing game quality when they say "Hey, we need to cut staff costs by 20%.")

    After a while, the creators are gone, the designers are gone, the guys who can really make the code work are gone... and you are left with the crowd that just cut-and-pastes old code, copies it forward, makes some tweaks, and can't even get the new code to count to 10!

    (An odd thing is that while losing the above people, most games manage to hang on to quite good quality art, environment, and visual design people. Apparently everyone thinks if it looks cool, it will sell.)

    You get left with a team that thinks "Lets trim all this old stuff we don't understand anyway, and just make things simpler. Simple is good, right?". You get left with a team that thinks advertising "New profession system with over 200 unique artisans to choose from!" will sell the game, and that people won't notice that 120 of those '200 new unique' artisans are completely useless and will be rejected every time they show up, again and again and again, asking for a job. (+200% Commission combined with -50% speed? Yeah, I hire a lot of people like that...)

    D&D has always been about 'making your character'. He may not be perfect, he might not be min-maxed, but he's yours and you built every part of him. Remember how well all those official D&D pre-made generic character sheets sold? Yeah, me neither.

    Well, now we all get, free, official, pre-made, generic Neverwinter characters. Which we can play in the new, official, pre-made, generic "Just Like Your Friends!" combat system. And you can select from among 200 New Unique Combinations of Mount/Companions/Boons/Feats, of which only 10 are actually valid, and those 10 are all "More of the Same!(TM)". Compete with your friends to see who can be the Most Same! Run dungeons with other Same-Alikes and all do the same things at the same time! It will be awesame!

    (Please note: Hyperbole provided free of charge as a public service. You're welcome!)

    The moral of the story is that MMOs are bad and we should all go back to demanding Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights style games who's with me?
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    vendood said:








    (By the way, bean counters and management do not set the tone of game changes in any dev company I am aware of... they may set targets and issues directives like "we need 50% more cash shop items", but they have nothing at all to say about things like "You know, rolling your stats for each character just isn't efficient. Stop that." But they do greatly affect ongoing game quality when they say "Hey, we need to cut staff costs by 20%.")



    Yes the bean counters don't get into the specifics of the mechanics of the game but they do dictate what direction the games goes strategically. In other words, if the dev leads come to them and say we have this great idea to have this great new mod that will add so much fun and content but we need a X amount of time and resources to do it. But they bean counters can say unless this props up revenue by the existing user base and new users by X percentage we won't approve the X amount of time and resources to do the new mod. Also, from the top down the management also dictates if upcoming material should be focused on increasing ROI and not QOL for players in general. The projects that have the most chance to increase cash flow will get priority over those that just make the game better for the sake of making the game better. I think we can see this clearly in how NW treats The Foundry and Strongholds and PvP to some extent. They are not the big revenue builders so they are almost an afterthought at this point. (As we can see with the Foundry closing). I predict PvP or Strong Holds are next on the chopping block.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    vendood said:








    (By the way, bean counters and management do not set the tone of game changes in any dev company I am aware of... they may set targets and issues directives like "we need 50% more cash shop items", but they have nothing at all to say about things like "You know, rolling your stats for each character just isn't efficient. Stop that." But they do greatly affect ongoing game quality when they say "Hey, we need to cut staff costs by 20%.")



    Yes the bean counters don't get into the specifics of the mechanics of the game but they do dictate what direction the games goes strategically. In other words, if the dev leads come to them and say we have this great idea to have this great new mod that will add so much fun and content but we need a X amount of time and resources to do it. But they bean counters can say unless this props up revenue by the existing user base and new users by X percentage we won't approve the X amount of time and resources to do the new mod. Also, from the top down the management also dictates if upcoming material should be focused on increasing ROI and not QOL for players in general. The projects that have the most chance to increase cash flow will get priority over those that just make the game better for the sake of making the game better. I think we can see this clearly in how NW treats The Foundry and Strongholds and PvP to some extent. They are not the big revenue builders so they are almost an afterthought at this point. (As we can see with the Foundry closing). I predict PvP or Strong Holds are next on the chopping block.
    Which, incidentally, is 100% how things should work.*

    I feel like a lot of players forget that video game companies are private companies and-at least in America-the legal obligation of a corporation is to the shareholders, which means maximizing your ROI.

    *Well, no, not really: there are other stakeholders, and it's troublesome that America's corporate structure requires a fiduciary duty to shareholders as the ultimate concern, but I don't wanna get too political.
    s
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 825 Arc User
    This thread has nothing to do with feedback about Preview. It belongs on the General Discussion forum.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User

    This thread has nothing to do with feedback about Preview. It belongs on the General Discussion forum.

    I don't know that I buy that. The thread is basically a "Boo mod 16" thread, which is a form of feedback.

    Probably not especially HELPFUL feedback, but feedback.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    This thread has nothing to do with feedback about Preview. It belongs on the General Discussion forum.

    Actually the OP is a critical response/feedback to directly related to playing on the preview from at least two different players. Sorry this doesn't live up to your expectations.
    Post edited by autumnwitch on
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Member Posts: 254 Arc User

    This thread has nothing to do with feedback about Preview. It belongs on the General Discussion forum.

    This is very important feedback about preview.

    Basically it says:

    MOD 16 gives far less incentive to spend money (or grind for AD) because

    - the options to significantly improve your character's performance with a couple of purchases do not exist any more
    - this might take the "fun" aspect out for many players, because there is no way to "speed up" the terrible grind that lies ahead every fresh (new) player via intelligent choices.

    In MOD 15 there have been a couple of "high benefit" purchases (from AH or Zen shop), that my dps toons have bought or were looking forward to get, such as:
    - unparalled weapon enchant - effectively doubles dps
    - Razorwood companion - significantly improves dps up to 30% (depending on improvements I already have)
    - Legendary mount - combat power can provide significant boosts in many circumstances

    Similar "high benefit" purchases exist for support classes.

    In MOD 16 the intent is to "level the field", which has the effect that character improvement will be nearly linear.
    This might or might not be intended.
    However, it will have the following effect:
    In MOD 16 the main "source" of character improvement will be, to bring the 30+ "normal" enchants to max-level, because companions and mounts and weapon/armor enchants only provide very small improvements compared to a full set of maxed "normal" enchants.

    The problem with that is, that it has taken completely the fun out of playing, to the extent that I am not sure if MOD 16 will be worth any effort (=playtime) at all. And this is not just a theoretical concern. It already happened, as far as I myself am concerned, because I have virtually stopped playing on live, and I rarely play on preview because it is so terribly frustrating.
    I do not see any reason why I should grind and grind and grind and grind and grind and grind and ... and grind for minimal results. A game must be enjoyable, and that is an emotion. My gut (emotion) tells me very clearly, that MOD 16 will be far less enjoyable than MOD 15.

    I cannot play long enough to even hope to ever get to bis-IL with one of my characters. But via intelligent choices concerning companions, gear and mounts I have been able to come within ~50% of near-bis players. MOD16 will likely put me at 20-30% effectiveness compared to a bis-player. I already found the grind in MOD 15 almost unbearable. It is absolutely obvious, that MOD 16 will be a far larger grind. My gut tells me, its not really worth it. Of course, my gut feeling might be wrong, so I will look into MOD 16 when it goes live and will take a final decision then.

    It is rather obvious: For those players that
    - have 24/7 free time,
    - have enough time left to post on the forums, and
    - that do not mind the mindless grind, because of their huge stock of free time
    MOD 16 will not be too much different than MOD 15.

    The question is, are these players the main source of income, that will keep the game running?
    And if not, will the players that actually are the main source of income be enthusiastic about
    - having all intelligent choices taken from them
    - replaced by a monumental mindless grind that is - rather obviously - required?
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Member Posts: 173 Arc User

    I don't understand why they are turning it into a 15 year old MMORPG, slow, tedious, predictable, sluggish. While at the same making character development more akin to premade characters in Fortnite.

    It if were made into either a more strategic MMORPG _or_ a more action oriented game to target people who grew up with action based games (including those of other genres) it would all make a lot more sense to me. But Mod 16 is more like taking the pace from Dark Souls and the strategy of a Musou.

    I suspect they want to port the game to mobile or Switch. So, making it simpler will make that easier. Just a guess, I have no inside information.
    Perhaps, I just think many changes to things like pace, movement or utility are basically the worst of both worlds. Worse there's no content that accomodates the pace, makes good use of more dominant tanking mechanics, or requires DPS to dedicate their efforts to multiple targets in different location (due to having 3 - 4 DPS as meta supposedly) or even open dungeon maps (I think Lostmauth first area is the last one of the current crop where I remember splitting up can be either a mistake or not)

    So while individually many changes do make sense (stat rework, streamlining feats & boons), it doesn't really add up for the whole picture... playing the same game and content except it feels like you're level 1. Even if things go well we won't have new dungeon, skirmish & trial or raid made for Mod 16+ limited design at least for another year or 2.

    If they want to succeed on Switch they need to make weapons breakable :)
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 915 Arc User
    If you look at mod 16 from a new players point of view no mount no guild no gear, it is just to much.

    Spending money will not help you to be able to compete with elitist or older players. Spending money will give you enchants that are meh, it will give you mounts that will not help, it will not help you get into end game content in fact this EXP ONLY rubbish is killing the game.

    They should for the first month remove private q and in my opinion group q'ing too. this will force bis players to help lower il players. In my opinion Blind PUG q is much more fun than running with a team that will melt the content. but sadly again the wrong people are being listened to and those people are just out to look out for no 1
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • ragnarz2ragnarz2 Member Posts: 208 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    If you look at mod 16 from a new players point of view no mount no guild no gear, it is just to much.

    Spending money will not help you to be able to compete with elitist or older players. Spending money will give you enchants that are meh, it will give you mounts that will not help, it will not help you get into end game content in fact this EXP ONLY rubbish is killing the game.

    They should for the first month remove private q and in my opinion group q'ing too. this will force bis players to help lower il players. In my opinion Blind PUG q is much more fun than running with a team that will melt the content. but sadly again the wrong people are being listened to and those people are just out to look out for no 1

    While you have some insight here don't make the mistake of thinking what you feel is fun as universal. You have to respect peoples desire to play they way they want to and if that is to use their time as efficiently as possible so be it.

    Q's are broken and will ever remain broken. Sadly they should have thrown out Q's along with everything they lobotomized from the prior 15 mods. Unfortunately what we have left in MOD 16 does not look sufficient to hold onto the player base. It is just too dumbed down. Too simplistic. The illusion of choice has been removed. How anyone can think this is a winning strategy is beyond my imagination.
Sign In or Register to comment.