test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Official M16: Ranger

1568101116

Comments

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,373 Arc User
    Right now, I suspect the Warden spec Combat Ranger is bad because of a design oversight of the weapon damage.

    I recall someone in this thread posted that Warden spec Combat Ranger is dealing ~50% of that of other DPS classes?

    I don't have access to a Ranger now, but could someone check the damage range on the Ranger's Level 80 weapons?

    I am guessing it'll be in the range of 1766-2158 weapon damage. This is approximately half the weapon damage of the other classes, which have the weapon damage range of 3531-4316.

    If the weapon damage is bugged to only be half of that of other classes, then I think unbugging the melee weapon damage should make Combat spec Ranger much closer to the other specs (if slightly lacking).

  • jabberghast#1974 jabberghast Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    userutf8 said:




    Or, at worst, give us the opportunity to reroll the class (as somebody already suggested)


    There you have it: We're in the stage of bargaining. Two more stages to go devs, you're almost there.
  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    rjc9000 said:

    Right now, I suspect the Warden spec Combat Ranger is bad because of a design oversight of the weapon damage.

    I recall someone in this thread posted that Warden spec Combat Ranger is dealing ~50% of that of other DPS classes?

    I don't have access to a Ranger now, but could someone check the damage range on the Ranger's Level 80 weapons?

    I am guessing it'll be in the range of 1766-2158 weapon damage. This is approximately half the weapon damage of the other classes, which have the weapon damage range of 3531-4316.

    If the weapon damage is bugged to only be half of that of other classes, then I think unbugging the melee weapon damage should make Combat spec Ranger much closer to the other specs (if slightly lacking).

    That was "fixed", but as a side-effect, non-melee damage dealt while in melee stance is reduced to 0.

    The ranger simply deals aweful damage because of all its powers having aweful magnitudes. The blademaster has an AoE with a magnitude of 1000 while steel breeze has 190. They also have 3 single target encounters between 700 and 1100 magnitude. Our strongest attack deals a laughable 600.
  • userutf8userutf8 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 270 Arc User
    @rjc9000 there's a problem with forum, and i cannot upload pics:

    it shows 1765-2158 on melee.
    ranged is 3531-4316.

    IMHO, If melee and ranged weapons had same damage, it would be much more simpler for players and devs as well (magnitude on melee ofc should have been adjusted in that case)
    ABSOLUTE
  • kaudilhokaudilho Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Some powers place in paragon pathes are a bit controversial, binging arrow for example is 3rd power that apply strong grasping roots but is in warden(suposed to be more melee/hybrid orinted?) path which doesn't benefit that much from this mechanic since it lacks Thorned roots feat, at the other side we see Cordong of Arrows/Plant of Growth that use to be the most powerful melee encounter but located in a range atack based "ranger" path.
    Harding Grim
    Guild:
    Dragon Server-Essence of Aggression
    Drider Server- TheWolves
    youtube channel
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    PG's magnitude is no longer the strongest AoE melee. Since it is a theme I'm seeing across many classes to reduce once popular powers beneath less frequently chosen powers, I assume it will likely stay that way.
  • kaudilhokaudilho Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    @noworries , can we expect fix for range powers deal no dmg when switching to melee(rain of arrows, thorned roots feat ,?vorpal % dmg?) in the same patch too?
    Harding Grim
    Guild:
    Dragon Server-Essence of Aggression
    Drider Server- TheWolves
    youtube channel
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Thank you for that update. :)
  • mixologeemixologee Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    Thank you for not leaving out in the cold @noworries#8859
  • quelmiran#2911 quelmiran Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    This thread has been read and is still being read. Not all classes get fixes and changes with each update as there is plenty of work to be done and it is simply whatever order things get fixed.

    Ranger melee weapon damage should hopefully be fixed with the next update to preview. The same tier of ranger melee and ranged weapons will have the same damage values.

    @noworries#8859 , I am pleased to hear that both melee and ranged weapons will have the same damage values.

    I am not in place to speak for the whole Hunter community but we all can see the work you and your colleges have done and keep doing for the barbarian class. I just hope that your goal is to tweak the barbarians and bring their damage and potencial to your desired performance and use that as benchmark for the hunter class and all the other dps classes in the game.

    Thank you.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User

    This thread has been read and is still being read. Not all classes get fixes and changes with each update as there is plenty of work to be done and it is simply whatever order things get fixed.

    Ranger melee weapon damage should hopefully be fixed with the next update to preview. The same tier of ranger melee and ranged weapons will have the same damage values.

    The only issue about this is that two of the 3 ranger types really can't be in any meaningful way properly tested till it's fixed so I'm glad a fix is going in shortly. Hopefully those same values are not both zero :)
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 325 Arc User


    I just hope that your goal is to tweak the barbarians and bring their damage and potencial to your desired performance and use that as benchmark for the hunter class and all the other dps classes in the game.

    I don't understand what gwfs have to do in this thread. And especially why they should be used as standart for benchmark of ALL dps classes...

  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    If you want to compare dps to dps you usually don't start to compare the worst to the second worst, or to the odd one out that you can't compare it to.
    Comparing anything to gwf is pretty simple, tho. Not that much to consider. It wouldn't make much sense to compare TR to HR to maybe SW if you leave gwfs out of the loop, unless you of course want gwf to be the only sought after dps class in the future. But who would want that... riight?

    For all that I care you can compare all classes to HR and adjust gwf accordingly :)
    - bye bye -
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,140 Arc User

    I don't know maybe it's me but i've never used so many healing potions to attempt to stay alive as i have in this mod. So often completely overwhelmed by the mobs. I thought this mod was going to be about balance, but i'm sure not seeing that either with my Ranger or my Warlock. Every power just seems underpowered. Frankly, while I realize this is a preview, I also know that much of what's going on now will end up being the live and if that is so, this one veteran who will be leaving.

    Ranger is handicapped by the fact that a lot of melee powers are not doing any damage, hopefully this is fixed on Friday, I've deferred ranger testing till after that.
  • jhpnwjhpnw Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 611 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    HR is Very clunky. The animations are 2 long and damage is weak. When launch a long encounter' I draw agro instantly. Then I am hit by mobs across the field instantly while animation is still in process of finishing. Due to weak dps with melee animations u r dead before they finish. @ 20kil. the risk reward and fluid ability of ranger are severely weakened

    suggested lengthen encounters so that they last longer when u fix melee damage. I do understand that animations are much harder to fix. But we need some way to not be slammed when soloing while waiting for rain of arrows, pg and
    slpit the sky animations to finish
  • userutf8userutf8 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 270 Arc User
    I have a suggestion about swapping of powers:

    Binding Arrow (Warden only Encounter) should be swapped with Rain of Arrows/Swords (Common Encounter), so that Binding Arrow becomes common and Rain of Arrows/Swords becomes Warden only.


    here's the reasoning
    1. Binding Arrow suits Hunter, because it procs roots and has decent damage. So, both hybrid and ranged Hunter can benefit from it.
    2. Ranged Hunter gets benefit of high ranged damage (magnitude 630 and mps = 35 (without cdr) make it 2nd best ranged single target))
    3. Hybrid Hunter gets benefit from roots, even if he's not using longshot, because he now has option to choose between 4 sources to reduce cooldowns and proc roots (hindering shot,hindering strike,constricting arrow and binding arrow) or 2 powers that reduce cooldowns and provide decent single-target ranged damage (binding,constricting + lonsgtrider/commanding). That brings a possibility to have yet one more mixed setup (having more options to choose is good).
    4. mps on Binding Arrow/Oak Skin by default is mps(Binding + Oak)/2 = 17,5. And that's pretty close to average mps of RoA and RoS which is 15,9. Which basically means that on single target the use of both powers is almost even.
    5. Warden can push Binding Arrow + Oak mps to 21 with Throw Caution feated, whereas Hunter can push it to 26,25 with Longhot.
    6. Now considering AoE/multiple target. RoA is actually not good (just because there's absolutely no guarantee that 4 mobs will stand in it). But RoS is good, and Combat Warden can benefit from it on multi target. Hunter has better options for AoE/multiple: e.g. he has Rapid Volley which suits ranged AoE Hunter as well as hybrid AoE Hunter (btw, for some weird reason not much people try Rapid Volley - try it, it's good).
    7. Finally, this change doesn't seem breaking, but adds something beneficial to Hunter at least in terms of gameplay, whereas not changing anything to Warden.


    Here is the spreasheet I made that allows to check all that (it may contain some minor mistakes, but gives the idea. If you see any mistakes, please let me know, i will fix)

    And for those who are lazy here's the screen:

    ABSOLUTE
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    agreed on binding arrow-rain of ... swap. My warden build doesn't even use binding arrow but my hunter build might if it was available. Thank you for the spreadsheet too, it was informative, but could use a legend for understanding what the columns and rows mean
  • userutf8userutf8 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 270 Arc User

    agreed on binding arrow-rain of ... swap. My warden build doesn't even use binding arrow but my hunter build might if it was available. Thank you for the spreadsheet too, it was informative, but could use a legend for understanding what the columns and rows mean

    Thank you for your reply.
    Added hint to spreadsheet that explains the meaning of column names.
    Added titles to mps charts.
    ABSOLUTE
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    But my hunter uses rain of arrow, commanding shot and hawkshot but doesn't use binding arrow. So.. what I m gonna do?
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    userutf8 said:

    agreed on binding arrow-rain of ... swap. My warden build doesn't even use binding arrow but my hunter build might if it was available. Thank you for the spreadsheet too, it was informative, but could use a legend for understanding what the columns and rows mean

    Thank you for your reply.
    Added hint to spreadsheet that explains the meaning of column names.
    Added titles to mps charts.
    Thank you. Can you create a damage per time variable say over 60 seconds how much damage that at will or encounter can do. Since cool down is a factor in my choosing of powers.

  • artifleurartifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    > @userutf8 said:
    >
    > Binding Arrow (Warden only Encounter) should be swapped with Rain of Arrows/Swords (Common Encounter), so that Binding Arrow becomes common and Rain of Arrows/Swords becomes Warden only.
    >

    I suggested that several pages ago. Good to see that we came to the same conclusion.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Why not swap binding with rapid volley? Hunter seems like a single target and root based path while warden looks like multi target and storm based path. Binding is root based while rapid volley is multi target. Seems to fit in well.


    But frankly, I don't like suggestion that ask for swap. Its a rule set by the developer and we are asking to bend the rule to suit our build. Kinda unfair to those that play by the rule.
  • fenrir4lifefenrir4life Member Posts: 295 Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Why not swap binding with rapid volley? Hunter seems like a single target and root based path while warden looks like multi target and storm based path. Binding is root based while rapid volley is multi target. Seems to fit in well.


    But frankly, I don't like suggestion that ask for swap. Its a rule set by the developer and we are asking to bend the rule to suit our build. Kinda unfair to those that play by the rule.

    That's kind of what the playtesting is for, though. Finding what works and doesn't work, and what feels good and doesn't feel good.

    Also, by and large, differentiating paths as one being for aoe and one being for single target rarely works out well for the single-target one, as they basically get carried around until you reach a boss. It's like the DDO OneShot Sorcerer build, where you could dump all of your spell points into a single multi-metamagic Lightning Bolt or Fireball that was an all-but-assured boss kill, but spent the rest of the dungeon flailing at things with a stick.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    kangkeok said:

    Why not swap binding with rapid volley? Hunter seems like a single target and root based path while warden looks like multi target and storm based path. Binding is root based while rapid volley is multi target. Seems to fit in well.


    But frankly, I don't like suggestion that ask for swap. Its a rule set by the developer and we are asking to bend the rule to suit our build. Kinda unfair to those that play by the rule.

    Nothing is a "rule" right now. The point of this feedback and testing is get both paths settled and right, and that might mean moving powers to the other paragon or level unlocks of some powers. His point is sensible from how the power selection and feat options for Hunter look. That is clearly where the root path is. Binding makes much more sense in that paragon or as a general selection power available to both.

    Edit: Most of us are not asking or trying to get ranger redesigned to suit OUR build. We are honestly just trying to help get it right and fun. Personally, I play trapper. This rewrite splits my build in half. I'm going to have deal with that, and honestly I don't dislike it. I see that effort was made to keep rapid stance swapping a thing. I appreciate that. My feedback is solely to make sure that the powers go in the path and level range that is right in this NEW system. To make sure things work and make them viably and competitively useful. Asking for changes to be made for those reasons is a GOOD thing and why players can and should give feedback.
    Post edited by kythelion#3210 on
  • lordaeoloslordaeolos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 167 Arc User

    kangkeok said:

    Why not swap binding with rapid volley? Hunter seems like a single target and root based path while warden looks like multi target and storm based path. Binding is root based while rapid volley is multi target. Seems to fit in well.


    But frankly, I don't like suggestion that ask for swap. Its a rule set by the developer and we are asking to bend the rule to suit our build. Kinda unfair to those that play by the rule.

    Nothing is a "rule" right now. The point of this feedback and testing is get both paths settled and right, and that might mean moving powers to the other paragon or level unlocks of some powers. His point is sensible from how the power selection and feat options for Hunter look. That is clearly where the root path is. Binding makes much more sense in that paragon or as a general selection power available to both.
    I agree with @kythelion#3210 .

    In my opinion the clock is ticking on fixing the Ranger, and we know from past previews that the longer we go before seeing actual feedback the more likely things will not be fixed. That said, I've given up testing the Ranger for now (even if it is my main), it just has way too many bugs, fluidity issues, and the offhand damage problems makes a big chunk of the class not reliable for comparison testing to other classes in the DPS department (or even itself). If I see a dev respond to the bugs reported, or a substantial list of patches in the weekly patch note then I will start testing the Ranger again, until then I'm going to ignore this thread and test classes that are actually getting dev team dialog. I'm not giving up the Ranger as a lost cause yet, but it's looking a little more grim everyday, to the point that I'm planning the strong possibility of changing my main (which is sad since I've enjoyed the HR and hundreds of re-specs since it's release in Mod 2).

    "Lord Willow"
    Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
    My Twitch Stream
    See my Youtube Channel for guides and more


    "Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
  • zerappuszerappus Member Posts: 138 Arc User
    Reminder to all the Combat trying to hi-jack the Hunter path and boot the Archery to the Warden path by trying to swap Binding Arrow for the archery-crucial Rain of Arrows: Bows are the primary weapons for Rangers.

    In able for archery to access Rain of Arrows, we have to run Warden and lose access the Feats. or the Secondary weapon users go to Warden to access you precious Binding Arrow as is.

    The trouble with Calculator/ACT/Spreadsheet builds is they don't account for:

    - Intangibles: positioning, set-up, combos, combat flow, location etc.
    - the fact that 80% of NW is solo campaign
    - the number of mobs per cluster
    - the fact these mobs actually move
    - the fact these mobs have powers.

    How are Primary weapon Bow users able to handle all these without Rain of Arrow ( an archery staple).

    Rain of Arrow/Cordon of Arrow/Marauder's Escape/Aimed Shot/Split Shot are crucial SOLO loadout. How the heck do you run Archery on live without these powers?

    If Combat wants Binding Arrow, why not just roll Warden, than try to break the core powers? Essentially, you Combat people don't want to roll Warden, so you want the Archers to roll Warden by angling for this swap.

    Archers (aka Primary weapon holder) lose access to feats if we go Warden.

    Lastly, they haven't even made changes to magnitudes and powers yet.

    I'm sure you're all not Archers. Hint: we don't use Binding Arrows at all. So, trying to upset and uppend the current heirarchy not to Archery benefit is wrong. Secondary weapon users go to Warden path if you want your Binding Arrow.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    The suggestion is not to hijack or gimp archery. Binding makes more sense as a common power or a hunter power based on theme and feats. Keep in mind, Hunter is not solely for archery. There are hybrid builds there too. Instead of being rude, why don't you make a counter suggestion? What would you swap it with? Or, provide credible reasoning for not swapping it other than "I use the power you suggested swapping it with". Why do you think it fits better in Warden?
Sign In or Register to comment.