Official M16: Warlock

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Comments

  • ramesh84
    ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    Latest test done by Sharp&c showed as 4 dps classes are in a close range after latest patch, for more details check here
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246312/official-m16-general-feedback/p36
    according to that datas, that I find quite close the ones I got, some classes just need some bugfixing and are ready to go. As I already stated, I feel warlock way less clunky with last patch, mostly thanks to HF ring CD reduction, FB changes and new feats setup and I am fine waiting for mod16.5 or mod17 for some QoL adjustment and power rework I previously asked for, as looks some other classes needs devs focus on.
    About balancing paths/features: I did some (lazy) tests with some extreme and intermediate curse consume/synergy rotations on single target and felt the overall difference was in a 1-10% range,quite acceptable tho. I will do some proper testing and share datas here, but won't be able to do so until next week-end, hopefully with some more fixes on table. What I will probably do within the week is sharing the build/rotation I am using here
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246310/dont-panic-and-bring-a-towel-basic-class-guides-for-m16
    hoping that would help people less confident with testing =)
    As i catch some friends online will give sparkweaver a try on some hard dungeon runs.
  • warravana
    warravana Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    that is, the fact that a tank is 20% more damaging than a DD warlock is the norm for you?
    What class are you playing? ours or someone else's?
    El sol negro brilla, en la frente de la locura el firmar,
    Kelemvor tomó mi trono de la muerte, pero soy eterno en la oscuridar...
    https://www.youtube.com/c/cyric
  • werdandi#8366
    werdandi#8366 Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    warravana said:

    that is, the fact that a tank is 20% more damaging than a DD warlock is the norm for you?
    What class are you playing? ours or someone else's?

    Don't compare with GWF tank or GWF dps: they are being reworked from scratch. You should wait for more preview patches before complaining. And yes GWF tanks are op atm.
  • mat44444
    mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    ramesh84 said:

    Latest test done by Sharp&c showed as 4 dps classes are in a close range after latest patch, for more details check here
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246312/official-m16-general-feedback/p36
    according to that datas, that I find quite close the ones I got, some classes just need some bugfixing and are ready to go. As I already stated, I feel warlock way less clunky with last patch, mostly thanks to HF ring CD reduction, FB changes and new feats setup and I am fine waiting for mod16.5 or mod17 for some QoL adjustment and power rework I previously asked for, as looks some other classes needs devs focus on.
    About balancing paths/features: I did some (lazy) tests with some extreme and intermediate curse consume/synergy rotations on single target and felt the overall difference was in a 1-10% range,quite acceptable tho. I will do some proper testing and share datas here, but won't be able to do so until next week-end, hopefully with some more fixes on table. What I will probably do within the week is sharing the build/rotation I am using here
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246310/dont-panic-and-bring-a-towel-basic-class-guides-for-m16
    hoping that would help people less confident with testing =)
    As i catch some friends online will give sparkweaver a try on some hard dungeon runs.


    Hi

    I guess it all depends upon how you read these things – what it clearly shows to me is how overly complicated the Warlocks dps is compared to others classes, and just how much harder they have to work to get the same results. Look at number of hits for example and number of times stuff had to be used to get same result

    Have a fun day

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    Looks like puppet is a far more significant source of damage in M16.

    On one hand, cool. On the other, any fight that inflicts CC on the puppet (e.g. frequent enemy PBAoEs that the player will be expected to dodge but the puppet will not) will be annoying unless the puppet is made CC-immune.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    Actually there is no reason to pick Soul Desecration with any build. It just punished your dps. I think the feats need to be reverted. Risky Investment or ExecutGift, Soul Desecration or Creeping Death. Even paired with CD, SD is only a choice if you go straight puppet setup.
  • hawkeyel
    hawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    While I have spoken about Pillar of Power already .I do want to make one thing most clear .I do not want to see it removed from either path .When it was changed a few Mods. back it was done so with all three of our paths in mind. And to make up for a lot of things that all our paths was lacking. And as it is in Mod 15 is the way I would like to see it remain. My only wish is that it would be a shared encounter that either path could make use of, both Soulweaver and Hellbringer. So yes the new changes you have done to it I would like to see reversed and make it like it was .Thank you.
  • dingrong
    dingrong Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    am i only one who noticed that my PET is doing 60% -70% of dmg? i run splinters with me , it easy does 25k AOE dmg , and i hit with 2-5k with my at wills on single target .. only daily does dmg that can compare to pet and it comes seldom. It feels like i am companion and splinters is main caracter :open_mouth:
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    @dingrong yes pets do a lot more damage than our at-wills. On my Warlock I don’t feel like a companion to my pet because my encounters proc for 20-50k regularly and crit for over 100k regularly and are firing fast enough that I far outpace my pet.

    I do feel having a pet matters more now. It’s not just a means to add more stats.

    On my Paladin my pet matters more for its damage, but I run in tank spec with 25% less damage, so it matters more.

    On my Barbarian I just run the freebie cleric, becuse heals helps with the crazy.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User


    - Risky Investment should NOT drop off after 15 seconds once stacked pretty laborious over the last 60 seconds...
    - FoE needs to stay active longer and when dropping off not from 10 to zero but backwards down to 9-8-7-6-5-4 over time or make it stack in short 3x3%

    Highlighting these two points in particular because they are huge nuisances carried over from previous builds.

    I can understand why time wasn't invested in fixing Soul Investiture while M15 was on live (assumedly because the team was busy with M16 and the Damnation changes were short-lived experiments), but it really needs to be fixed now, especially since Soul Scorch is no longer a Curse Consume encounter power, leaving no quick method for building up the stacks in the first place.

    Flames of Empowerment should be easier to use now that our CDs aren't so rapid that we barely touch At-Wills even in Hellbringer, but the stack management is still an annoyance since they can't be maintained by anything other than At-Wills. The suggestion to make it a shorter stack with more effectiveness per individual stack is a good alternative.


    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • douglasopferbeck
    douglasopferbeck Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    I agree, we need more ways to summon a soul puppet. Killing Flames should be at the very least changed to summon soul puppet on cast with curse consume, not just kill. It’s magnitude needs to be raised a bit as well. Upper cap at 850-900 would be nice. Once soul investiture hits 5, it needs to be refreshed with every soul puppet summon as well. Soul puppet damage needs to be either doubled, or allow it to spread lesser curse.
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    > @douglasopferbeck said:
    > I agree, we need more ways to summon a soul puppet. Killing Flames should be at the very least changed to summon soul puppet on cast with curse consume, not just kill. It’s magnitude needs to be raised a bit as well. Upper cap at 850-900 would be nice. Once soul investiture hits 5, it needs to be refreshed with every soul puppet summon as well. Soul puppet damage needs to be either doubled, or allow it to spread lesser curse.

    Doubling Soul Puppet damage would put it near or at the top of our damaging abilities (under ideal conditions with a stationary target).

    I’d be happy if the puppet were simply made more responsive and immune to CC in PvE. Some other games with class-specific pet mechanics grant these critters high AoE resistance and immunity to control effects to offset how impractical or impossible it is to manage them.

    But yes, if Soul Puppet is intended to be a core class mechanic this time around, as opposed to the gimmick it has been for the past however many mods, we need to be able to build and maintain stacks reasonably.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    vorphied said:

    > @douglasopferbeck said:

    > I agree, we need more ways to summon a soul puppet. Killing Flames should be at the very least changed to summon soul puppet on cast with curse consume, not just kill. It’s magnitude needs to be raised a bit as well. Upper cap at 850-900 would be nice. Once soul investiture hits 5, it needs to be refreshed with every soul puppet summon as well. Soul puppet damage needs to be either doubled, or allow it to spread lesser curse.



    Doubling Soul Puppet damage would put it near or at the top of our damaging abilities (under ideal conditions with a stationary target).



    I’d be happy if the puppet were simply made more responsive and immune to CC in PvE. Some other games with class-specific pet mechanics grant these critters high AoE resistance and immunity to control effects to offset how impractical or impossible it is to manage them.



    But yes, if Soul Puppet is intended to be a core class mechanic this time around, as opposed to the gimmick it has been for the past however many mods, we need to be able to build and maintain stacks reasonably.

    As it looks right now puppet is the mayor buff by far, idealy 10-12% of damage, 5x5% encounter damage if stacked, optional encounter reset on hit, Combatadvantage situationally, tank abilities to some degree.
    Setup is centered arround RI on single target actually (HG-250+VE-250+KF-500+), missing good alternatives.
    There is no "No-Puppet-setup" talking about Bossencounter, wich is no advantage for the class, dealing acceptable damage only, if you benchmark the class on a static Dummy with optimum conditions.
    Pretending that RI buffs encounterpower for 15% and encounter deal 60% same as Puppet deals 10-12%, approximately 20% of all damage is dealt by the puppet.
    If puppet sucks in some fights, dies or buffs drop off in betwen phases, warlock sucks.
    Last mods there was a constant problem, getting the puppet inside some bossrooms, can´t really tell what it will look like now.
    I am not that happy being tied to the puppet and having no competetive pure dps setup to chose honestly.
    The only way to be less tied to the puppet was, having the option to chose Executioner Gift > RI plus chosing Creeping death on top.
    I´d prefer to revert changes from last patch and improve one dps encounter (no matter what), so I can run CD+EG with KF + "xy" + "xy", from wich 2x "xy" has a magnitude of about 700-800 together. Or simply implement one encounter like FB was arround 600+ after reverting those feats.
    That Encounter could also have a CD of 13-14sec at mag 700. By that I do not get "cramped fingers" all time having a realtime-CD of 5-6 seconds on KF or VE.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • tsildoth
    tsildoth Member Posts: 5 Arc User

    @hawkeyel, just think of Hellfire Ring as PoP that works at range, does better damage and doesn't have a buff. The use is pretty much the same, park it on the tank, watch everything take damage. The advantage is you don't have to stand next to the tank to make it work, and can happily stand back and cast Fiery Bolt and Curse Bite on the mobs.

    Pillar of Power was level 30 - Hellfire ring is level 80. The PoP saved my tail many a time as I was leveling up in live. I recognize the idea is to make end - game more interesting to keep the older players; but let's not forget the new folk (and old folks new chars) who have to level up to 80 to get Hellfire. Hellfire works at range - great!! PoP only worked right around the caster. We could use both skills being avail (PoP for soloing, Hellfire for party).
  • rjc9000
    rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,398 Arc User

    Trying the single target powers (KF,VE,HG) in a Master Expedition (no rune).

    My recharge rate shows as 34.8%, and frankly the powers are recharging too slowly or alternatively hitting too softly for that recharge time.

    KF - Recharge 11.8s Mag 500-750
    VE - Recharge 10.3s Mag 250
    HG - Recharge 14.8s Mag 200

    vs
    HR - Recharge 11.1s Mag 100
    Fiery Bolt - Recharge 8.9s Mag 160
    Curse Bite - Recharge 13s Mag 220
    Arms of Hadar - Recharge 2.2s (stacking still) Mag 50

    Having been playing Sentinel Barbarian where the single target loadout is just as effective (or more so applied correctly) with solid at-will damage to weave between encounters. The Single Target Warlock powers feel very lack luster.

    At a minimum all the single target powers should have their Magnitude doubled, including KF.

    I wouldn't mind an increase to Warlock base damage or better cooldown reduction feats (I like Warlock being top tier for once).

    However, I'd like to point out that Sentinel barbie is not a good comparison because it's bugged to be dealing 3.14x the damage of the DPS barbie, the latter of which is already comparable to Warlock single target DPS...

  • tsildoth
    tsildoth Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    tsildoth said:

    @hawkeyel, just think of Hellfire Ring as PoP that works at range, does better damage and doesn't have a buff. The use is pretty much the same, park it on the tank, watch everything take damage. The advantage is you don't have to stand next to the tank to make it work, and can happily stand back and cast Fiery Bolt and Curse Bite on the mobs.

    Pillar of Power was level 30 - Hellfire ring is level 80. The PoP saved my tail many a time as I was leveling up in live. I recognize the idea is to make end - game more interesting to keep the older players; but let's not forget the new folk (and old folks new chars) who have to level up to 80 to get Hellfire. Hellfire works at range - great!! PoP only worked right around the caster. We could use both skills being avail (PoP for soloing, Hellfire for party).
    oh and i like standing next to the mobs and hitting them with Blight.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    rjc9000 said:

    Trying the single target powers (KF,VE,HG) in a Master Expedition (no rune).

    My recharge rate shows as 34.8%, and frankly the powers are recharging too slowly or alternatively hitting too softly for that recharge time.

    KF - Recharge 11.8s Mag 500-750
    VE - Recharge 10.3s Mag 250
    HG - Recharge 14.8s Mag 200

    vs
    HR - Recharge 11.1s Mag 100
    Fiery Bolt - Recharge 8.9s Mag 160
    Curse Bite - Recharge 13s Mag 220
    Arms of Hadar - Recharge 2.2s (stacking still) Mag 50

    Having been playing Sentinel Barbarian where the single target loadout is just as effective (or more so applied correctly) with solid at-will damage to weave between encounters. The Single Target Warlock powers feel very lack luster.

    At a minimum all the single target powers should have their Magnitude doubled, including KF.

    I wouldn't mind an increase to Warlock base damage or better cooldown reduction feats (I like Warlock being top tier for once).

    However, I'd like to point out that Sentinel barbie is not a good comparison because it's bugged to be dealing 3.14x the damage of the DPS barbie, the latter of which is already comparable to Warlock single target DPS...
    Actually there is a significant disbalance about tankyness and dps.
    OP deals maby 20% less focus damage than other striker do, with a 30% innate DR on top and can shield 100% HP all time with short breaks. The test that were done don´t display the real dps since Paladin recharegs Divinity pretty good by incoming hits "Smite-Smite-Smite-Smite"
    I did not read all comments arround those tests 1:1, but anyway a lot to interpret by sure and read between the lines.
    The problem arround balance is not only about "who is top dps", but also about who deals too much compared to his tank abilities, sentinel aside since bugged severely.
    Tanks should have significant lower dps imo, same as their dps spec (or healspec) should not have similar tank ablities. Idk if Dreadnought deals similar dps than a warlock or a Wizard, but doing so he should be less tanky, same as I think that Vengeance is not much of a fun-mechanic to me.
    Anyway, if things stay like now we will find ourselves in "Barbie-Land", since you have to take many other aspects into account beside hitting a dummy for 5 min, such as mechanics similar to Paladins:
    " Dealing damage, Taking damage and milling foes increase your rage gauge. When your rage gauge reaches 50% you may ativate Battlecharge: Battlecharge increase the speed of your At Wills plus cc immunity 15% + damage/DR"
    If we want to discuss things on a reasonable level dps shards are a base but needs to be interpreted in the right direction. In case of warlock the directions points straight down, if you pay attention to class mechanics.
    I really think devs underestimate the effect towards the game same as gamepopulation if this get´s not adressed, since not that much player are interested in a monotone classmix.
    Warlock is not that popular, same as other classes atm, so maybe the general thought on devs side is like: "Better have 20000 happy Barbies and 500 desparate warlocks than the other way."
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • frogwalloper#6494
    frogwalloper#6494 Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    I am not that happy being tied to the puppet and having no competetive pure dps setup to chose honestly.

    It's nice that they're trying to improve the Puppet Master experience and all, but I'm willing to bet most warlock users did not sign up for a punch and judy show.

    Straight up dps please.

    Tanks should have significant lower dps imo, same as their dps spec (or healspec) should not have similar tank ablities.

    I totally agree. Tank classes should produce nowhere near as much damage as a dps class. That's a big no no.
  • hawkeyel
    hawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User

    @hawkeyel, just think of Hellfire Ring as PoP that works at range, does better damage and doesn't have a buff. The use is pretty much the same, park it on the tank, watch everything take damage. The advantage is you don't have to stand next to the tank to make it work, and can happily stand back and cast Firey Bolt and Curse Bite on the mobs.

    Yes that is the set up I am using . But in Vanrakdoom and doing the quest Waning Darkness . I found the best way for me was just to go Soulweaver. I have found far fewer deaths as a Soulweaver and unless more is done I will pass on using my Hellbringer for anything that calls for better survival . The running for one life style can be fun but not very team friendly making other people dizzy watching me.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    > @rjc9000 said:
    >
    >
    > I wouldn't mind an increase to Warlock base damage or better cooldown reduction feats (I like Warlock being top tier for once).
    >
    > However, I'd like to point out that Sentinel barbie is not a good comparison because it's bugged to be dealing 3.14x the damage of the DPS barbie, the latter of which is already comparable to Warlock single target DPS...

    I’m comparing Sentinel to Sentinel, using Single Target with it feels as effective as using AoE, unlike the Warlock where I feel far weaker with single target vs AoE.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • hawkeyel
    hawkeyel Member Posts: 389 Arc User

    I’m comparing Sentinel to Sentinel, using Single Target with it feels as effective as using AoE, unlike the Warlock where I feel far weaker with single target vs AoE.

    You make a valid point. I never felt that our primary single target power Killing Flames was worth much unless you used the feat to turn it into Murderous Flames. Then it at least had a reason for being. But I do differ in your view point on Hellfire Ring being a worthy replacement for Pillar of Power. on our Hellbringer path. Yes it on its own does more damage than pop did. But with Pillar of Powers "buffs". All our other powers did more damage also. And it also gave us a much better defensive benefit on top of all that. My 2 copper.