test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Feedback: Companions

1111214161723

Comments

  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    What are you people talking about OFF/DEF/UTIL slots for? Companions? Companions get 3 Bonding runestones on the left side. They have no stats. On the right side, you choose any three companion gears. They come in any combination of slots.... OFF or DEF.
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,861 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    What are you people talking about OFF/DEF/UTIL slots for? Companions? Companions get 3 Bonding runestones on the left side. They have no stats. On the right side, you choose any three companion gears. They come in any combination of slots.... OFF or DEF.

    Companion POWERS. The passive ones, that replace the active bonuses.
  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    For most classes, I'd rate the stats using these multipliers to determine their true value:

    100% Defense & Critical Hit
    90% Deflect & Combat advantage
    80% Health (per stat point = 20% times hit points)
    50% Power
    25% Armor Penetration & Accuracy
    20% Critical Resistance
    15% Awareness

    At this point, i dont think it matters much whether your a tank or DPS, those stat values wont change much. Skills and class mechanics will define our roles.
    Post edited by zimxero#8085 on
  • tanais58cranetanais58crane Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    What are you people talking about OFF/DEF/UTIL slots for? Companions? Companions get 3 Bonding runestones on the left side. They have no stats. On the right side, you choose any three companion gears. They come in any combination of slots.... OFF or DEF.

    Basically what I, and clearly other people are worried about,

    I understand you're trying to push GWF (barbarians) into being tanks, but why are our companion slots mostly defense? We are literally the main offensive class in the game, and for all this talk of giving players choices, it feels like they're being stripped away instead.

    Is if the developer's choice of placing the GWF, soon to be Barbarians into the most defensive tier of companion powers,

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11111523
    Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian

    Defense
    Offense
    Defense
    Defense
    Utility


    Means that the developers intend to blunt the Great Weapon Fighter's damage until they are just a "Weaker, less durable, and without buffs" version of Guardian Fighters.

    For forcing a class that has historically traded risk (Stuck in Close Quarters with no way out that doesn't involve a pine box.) [Or in end game dungeons, a bucket.] for high sustained damage, into having almost only defensive options on what has for the longest time been a core part of any build is not exactly a small thing.

    After all,

    1. GWF players that invested into 5 offensive companions will see their investment turned to nothing when only one can even be used in the new mod.

    I would bet my left mitten not exactly few GWF players have a damage-oriented active roster.

    2. Active bonuses remain significant under the new system. Meaning every single GWF player that aims to do damage will feel left out and without options to improve their character on the areas they are interested in.

    Let's be honest. You won't see a dark elf assassin elated at the prospect of having a bigger selection of full plate armour upgrades.

    And I know, I know.

    This post-Omu generation of Great Weapon Fighters is really into pressed flowers and butterfly collections, but for those (I am sure by now oh so very few) of us that prefer an axe to a bug net, the prospect of being denied more than 66% of the offensive options other classes will have, doesn't look particularly enticing.

    That said, if these changes go through as planned effectively corralling Great Weapon Fighters into losing a huge array of offensive options to make "Barbarian" mean "Tank without damage or team utility" I will kick the first person in my guild that talks about how excited they are to now get to stack the +5% chance for the ever elusive Limenitis arthemis with the +10% chance for Colias croceus.
    Post edited by tanais58crane on
    The stars are falling, and the old gods silent as death, with the blood sworn to rip you down from the night sky, what cost will pose too high?
  • terrydennisauterrydennisau Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    Hi I have the gelatinous cube companion and it's stats didnt get an upgrade on the preview server, leaving it way behind any other companion, which is a shame as it is a great companion. I hope you address this issue prior to Mod 16 release.
  • mushellkamushellka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 357 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    For most classes, I'd rate the stats using these multipliers to determine their true value:

    100% Defense & Critical Hit
    90% Deflect & Combat advantage
    80% Health (per stat point = 20% times hit points)
    50% Power
    25% Armor Penetration & Accuracy
    20% Critical Resistance
    15% Awareness

    At this point, i dont think it matters much whether your a tank or DPS, those stat values wont change much. Skills and class mechanics will define our roles.

    If you don't want to distinguish from Johnny "More DPS Then U" - it's Kelemvor with you .
    But here is the thread regarding companions and their bonuses, not your stats... And we're trying to get some semblance of uniqueness.
    Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
  • violencebf22violencebf22 Member Posts: 41 Arc User

    To chime in on the Companion bonus slots, I think that every class should get one of each type of slot, and then one additional slot for each of their roles.

    DPS = Offense
    Heal = Utility
    Tank = Defense

    Rangers, Rogues, and Wizards would get 2 extra offense slots (DPS/DPS) so they would be 3 offense, 1 utility, 1 defense.

    Barbarians and Fighters would get 1 each of offense (DPS) and defense (tank) for a total of 2/1/2.

    Clerics and Warlocks would get an extra offense (DPS) and utility (Heal) slot, for a total of 2/2/1.

    Paladins would get an extra utility (Heal) and defense (Tank) slot, for a total of 1/2/2.

    But in this situation, the further development of classes stop and add 3 role tank healer or dps this will introduce more problems at future stages than usefulness at the moment.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    When you change map (instance?) you loose the Companion's Gift buff and have to stand around waiting for it to return.

    You can see it in the first few minutes of this video.



    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    3 defense slot for barbarian, that's a slap in the face. Until now they were mostly dps and will remain in the majority dps. Why 3 defense slots ?! at least put in universal slots for the freedom to chose between dps and tank
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    What are you people talking about OFF/DEF/UTIL slots for? Companions? Companions get 3 Bonding runestones on the left side. They have no stats. On the right side, you choose any three companion gears. They come in any combination of slots.... OFF or DEF.

    Basically what I, and clearly other people are worried about
    c3rb3r3 said:

    3 defense slot for barbarian, that's a slap in the face. Until now they were mostly dps and will remain in the majority dps. Why 3 defense slots ?! at least put in universal slots for the freedom to chose between dps and tank

    To be clear, we are refering to the 3 defense "player bonus" of GF and GWF that can have a dps role (and the limited offense stats choice in the player bonus of the "defense" pets, and vice-versa) , not to the companion gear 3 slots.
    That's why the idea of one universal slot could solve the problem, if it is not possible to tune the player bonus categories by role, in the case a class can have two different roles.

    Utility 'player bonus" are quite versatile and could fit the need as well.
  • wisper2048wisper2048 Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    Considering that every class except for paladin could have a DPS role, I think that slots (utility/offense/defense) should be either role-dependent or the same for all classes (because almost everyone has DPS role). The current way create disadvantage for dual-role classes as they could not spec for DPS role as pure DPS classes.
  • arcanjo86arcanjo86 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,080 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    What are you people talking about OFF/DEF/UTIL slots for? Companions? Companions get 3 Bonding runestones on the left side. They have no stats. On the right side, you choose any three companion gears. They come in any combination of slots.... OFF or DEF.

    its under that side of the companion tab, we are talking about the slots were you slot other 5 leg companion that boost player stats ratings and other effects based on each different companion, they coded based on class , so for them barbarians are tanks and didn't code it to change on which role player choose, because wizard, rogue and ranger have 2 dps roles, while barbarian and fighter have dps and tank roles, for both dps and tank roles its 3 defense slots when they should have put 3 offense on the dps paragon and 3 defense on tank paragon, the lazyness brought these failure to these classes, also the clerics has a heal and dps role and they coded for healer slots for both paragon and paladins has same problem when they have healer and tank paragon roles the gave tank roles slots, they need to give leveling player companions on level 31 after they choose the paragon loadout and remove apply to all loadout from companion tab @sgrantdev#8718 @noworries#8859 these coding need to change and aplly different slots when player picks the role to the class they play, the same problem is happening to each role on ability scores, when development team decided to put fixed ability score number based on the class, but not based on the role picked by the player, your decision are forcing us players to play the game the way you want us to play and not the way we see it can be played, you already have the companion cash grab/ad drain scheme set but you lack the potential to make it working according to paragon roles why over-complicate it when in theory it looks easier than it is on preview, character creation player pick race + boosted ability scores and racial abilities + class+ paragon then code changes ability score for that paragon(yes player pick first paragon right away to smooth the coding, when player change load-out, coding get the race+boosted ability scores and racial abilities + class+ the ability scores for the different paragon picked for that loadout, similar coding could be used to the companion tab when choosing the slots based on the roles.
  • tanais58cranetanais58crane Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    You hear me? I will kick you from a very tall place into a moat full of very hungry fishes!
    c3rb3r3 said:

    3 defense slot for barbarian, that's a slap in the face. Until now they were mostly dps and will remain in the majority dps. Why 3 defense slots ?! at least put in universal slots for the freedom to chose between dps and tank

    Of course, it all goes down to the final balancing act.

    Say, making up for worse companion power choices with higher scaling powers and stronger feats.

    The matter is still, as you put it, that it feels as if the developers instead of giving Barbarians the option to be either tanks or damage dealers, are just taking away the tools we require to do damage.

    Considering that every class except for paladin could have a DPS role, I think that slots (utility/offense/defense) should be either role-dependent or the same for all classes (because almost everyone has DPS role). The current way create disadvantage for dual-role classes as they could not spec for DPS role as pure DPS classes.

    That is a fair point, all classes to one extent or another get boxed in by these choices.

    Currently, you can decide whether your companions aid you in a defensive, or aggressive playstyle, regardless of what class and feat path you've chosen.

    This will take away those options for the players that want to "Step outside of the meta" reducing the depth of this game.

    And, depending on the developer's choices. - Cough, "Barbarian that only has defensive options", cough. - downright downgrade the viability of other long standing and well established classes in the roles people play them for.

    I dont understand this game, the gwf is a dps, and when i first started playing my guild mate told me that its not my job to tank and that my main role was to do damage, this mod makes no sense. im a dps not a tank, why should i tank when its not in my role to tank?

    It is not bad that Great Weapon Fighters get the option to spec as (Hopefully viable) tanks, it is good, in fact.

    Well, good as long as that doesn't mean we've our traditional role and viability stripped from us in the process.

    Do bear in mind that placing the Barbarians in the most defensive tier of companion powers does not necessarily mean that they intend to turn Great Weapon Fighters into lackluster tanks, just that it looks like for all intends and purposes, they are going to.
    The stars are falling, and the old gods silent as death, with the blood sworn to rip you down from the night sky, what cost will pose too high?
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User

    To chime in on the Companion bonus slots, I think that every class should get one of each type of slot, and then one additional slot for each of their roles.

    DPS = Offense
    Heal = Utility
    Tank = Defense

    Rangers, Rogues, and Wizards would get 2 extra offense slots (DPS/DPS) so they would be 3 offense, 1 utility, 1 defense.

    Barbarians and Fighters would get 1 each of offense (DPS) and defense (tank) for a total of 2/1/2.

    Clerics and Warlocks would get an extra offense (DPS) and utility (Heal) slot, for a total of 2/2/1.

    Paladins would get an extra utility (Heal) and defense (Tank) slot, for a total of 1/2/2.

    But in this situation, the further development of classes stop and add 3 role tank healer or dps this will introduce more problems at future stages than usefulness at the moment.
    It doesn't prevent development of classes at all.

    It offers them all a level playing field for whichever role they wish to pursue, and the variety of options when it comes to filling those slots creates diversity.


    If there is a "best" choice then that is on the devs to fix. It is their responsibility to make sure that every utility choice is as good as every other utility choice within a small margin of error and that the different types of choices are all relatively close in general in terms of the benefits that they offer a class both in pursuit of their role(s) and in general practice.

    As much as people might be hoping that a Paladin DPS path shows up one day, there are no current plans for this and it seems unlikely to me.
    What third role would they add to all of the other classes? Even if you tried to jam a single target and multi-target DPS role on to every other class, when you get to the dual-DPS classes you start to have problems.

    The much more realistic path forward is just new classes, and nothing in my suggestion would stop them from bringing them in and giving them the same slot types as every other class in their same role set-up.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Member Posts: 674 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    I dont understand this game, the gwf is a dps, and when i first started playing my guild mate told me that its not my job to tank and that my main role was to do damage, this mod makes no sense. im a dps not a tank, why should i tank when its not in my role to tank?

    If you want to DPS then DPS. No one is stopping you.

    This, however, is the Companion discussion thread and if you have Barbarian-specific issues then you should go to the Barbarian thread.


    (edited: Said this was general feedback thread. It is the companion thread)
    Post edited by mithrosnomore on
  • mythrackamythracka Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Feels wrong that companion slots are based on class rather than role.

    Suggest it makes sense that a dps wizard, barbarian, fighter or whatever class should have an offense focus for its companion slots. In the same why all tanks roles should be focused onto defense and all healers roles focused onto utility (or somewhere in between). Therefore suggest 'something' like the following:

    Tank: Off/Def/Def/Def/Util
    Healer: Off/Off/Def/Def/Util (or mixed combination)
    DPS: Off/Off/Off/Def/Util


    Imho the most natural way to determine the slot composition that keeps things even handed for all classes is for it to be determined on the role.
    Post edited by mythracka on
  • cdnbisoncdnbison Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    This really cannot be said enough, so, for those in the cheap seats...

    A DEFENSIVE SLOT DOES NOT LIMIT YOU TO HAVING ONLY DEFENSIVE STATS IN THAT SLOT!!!

    See also: Phase Spider. Red Slaad. Fey Panther. Ambush Drake. All offer 2x Offensive stats that fit into the Defense slot. That's just from a quick sort and grab from Rainier's list. There are still a bunch of companions that are not sorted on that list, so relax, folks.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    cdnbison said:

    This really cannot be said enough, so, for those in the cheap seats...

    A DEFENSIVE SLOT DOES NOT LIMIT YOU TO HAVING ONLY DEFENSIVE STATS IN THAT SLOT!!!

    See also: Phase Spider. Red Slaad. Fey Panther. Ambush Drake. All offer 2x Offensive stats that fit into the Defense slot. That's just from a quick sort and grab from Rainier's list. There are still a bunch of companions that are not sorted on that list, so relax, folks.

    As my doubts persist, I decided to repost, maybe you understand the real situation of the problem.

    Now all we have left is the DEV explain what we will do with all the offensive companions we have that will be practically useless (only for boolster) for DPS build and how we will do the same damage as classes that have 3 offensive companions. And before they tell me that there are defensive fellows with STATUS (something irrelevant to an end player) offensive, the vast majority of companions with Poison, Bleeding, and DoT damage are offensive, the same applies to fellow future damage bonuses.

  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Universal OFF DEF Utility, + OFF OFF = Wizard, Rogue, Ranger
    Universal OFF DEF Utility, + OFF DEF = Barbarian, Fighter
    Universal OFF DEF Utility, + OFF Utility = Cleric, Warlock
    Universal OFF DEF Utility, + DEF Utility = Paladin

    That is what makes sense to me






  • lordseth1985lordseth1985 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 304 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    I understand you're trying to push GWF (barbarians) into being tanks, but why are our companion slots mostly defense? We are literally the main offensive class in the game, and for all this talk of giving players choices, it feels like they're being stripped away instead.

    I hope that thischanges in next mod. It shouldn't be like that, all dps classes should have the same chances of being the "main offensive class in the game".

    I dont understand this game, the gwf is a dps, and when i first started playing my guild mate told me that its not my job to tank and that my main role was to do damage, this mod makes no sense. im a dps not a tank, why should i tank when its not in my role to tank?

    Actually, GWF/barbarians was designed to be a "soft tanker", focusing on deflection and rage build to do their jobs. So, it would make sense to have some def slots for companions to fill.

    Anyway, I really miss the universal slot for companions. It would be nice to have it, just like we have on mounts. But looks like that decision is final, since devs posted it on news blog.
    Seth QuickHands - Rogue, natural born assassin.
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    @lordseth1985 "Actually, GWF/barbarians was designed to be a "soft tanker", focusing on deflection and rage build to do their jobs. So, it would make sense to have some def slots for companions to fill.

    Anyway, I really miss the universal slot for companions. It would be nice to have it, just like we have on mounts. But looks like that decision is final, since devs posted it on news blog."


    I still have hope that there is some change to this problem, even though I already have an official post on the subject. GWF (Bárbarian) is the most chosen class of the game, even if some do not play with it, they have an ALT of this class, and nothing was consulted in our class topic. Perhaps for new players, the choice of tank is interesting or even for some other players, but I believe that 90% of those who run their GWF like DPS did not accept being forced to turn a tank, the only alternative left over since their DPS will be much lower than any other class with 3 offensive companions.

  • zimxero#8085 zimxero Member Posts: 876 Arc User
    This is the "companions" thread, not the class role thread. Think of it on the bright side. Your DPS will be competitive. 'somwhere' in the spectrum with 7 other classes. Paladins will certainly have lower DPS. The DPS classes should be jealous of the Barbarian and Fighter, because they have gained the ability to switch roles at any time. You can switch to tank to take on a boss, or for a BHE. You have more variation than the Rogue, Wizard, and Ranger
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 507 Arc User

    This is the "companions" thread, not the class role thread. Think of it on the bright side. Your DPS will be competitive. 'somwhere' in the spectrum with 7 other classes. Paladins will certainly have lower DPS. The DPS classes should be jealous of the Barbarian and Fighter, because they have gained the ability to switch roles at any time. You can switch to tank to take on a boss, or for a BHE. You have more variation than the Rogue, Wizard, and Ranger

    First, I do not want to change roles during a race. I see many CW, SW and HR undergoing to make suports because most of the other players do not believe in their DPS ability. I say this because despite being here defending the GWF class how much damage is lost by having 3 slots of defensive companions as those who have 3 offensives will be huge. Currently I run more dungeons in my GF Tank / Tactical Buff (easier to find positions in groups), and I see that most of the classes already mentioned are somehow required to perform the buff / debuff function to be able to be part of the races . When I use a channel to give LFM xDPS I do not specify the class as many do specifying GWF or TR. I just need the player to properly execute the function of being carry independent of the class. s

    Second, even if at some point I changed my mind, there are other factors that make the class stuck in a first moment that differs from the other classes that currently run as buffs and that only need to change loadouts. I will cite as an example the great amount of status, which would only be possible with others enchants, equipment, insignia bonuses that I would have to invest since I do not own any of this.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    At a guess the reason that companion boosts are done by class not role is loadouts.

    If I build a Barbie and I build Blademaster, and gain companions etc for that build and decide I want to try Sentinel I don’t now need to find a whole new selection of companions, because I have already chosen a good set of companions.

    <font color=cyan>Something I feel is missing at the moment is a tab that shows the bonuses a companion provides when it is owned at the different tiers.</font>
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • wytyggo#4728 wytyggo Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    I've posted this message in the paladin thread, but I think it is wise to post it here also. Many bugs are related to the pets.

    After a very thorough test of the Paladin tank 21k6 on the live server, I am still as frustrated as ever.

    After having tried quite a few configuration of enchantments, I chose to equip myself with cruel enchantments in the defense slots and radiant ones in the attack slots. So I chose to maximize defense and deflection and put everything in power.

    To improve survivability I have chosen:
    - the "blood-theft" enchantment on the armor coupled with "justice enchant" on the weapon
    - companion powers: "redemption", coupled with "survivor's blessing" and "opressor's reprieve" as a mount bonus
    It makes me almost immortal in combat, which in my opinion is not a desired thing for the game and its future.

    Justicar in solitary combat:
    Even using the divinity sparingly, I quickly run dry, allowing the companion to quickly take the aggro. The DPS is quite honourable.
    The companions' DPS is totally unbalanced. Some even do fixed damage at 1,805,000 (Rust monster, Sell sword).

    Justicar in group content (mad magician's lair):
    I felt like I was totally useless, as the DPSs continued to rush ahead and were immortal. Maintaining the aggro is a challenge. This may be due to the choice of companion powers for which "redemption" seems to be almost unavoidable.

    Oathkeeper:
    I haven't tested anything yet. But it would seem that this path is much more effective. That's good, I don't like being a healer.

    In summary:
    To really test the paladins, we would need a rebalancing of the "redemption" power of the companions, as well as the powers of mounts that always allow an excellent survivability to all classes allowing to exclude tanks and healers from the groups optimized to make dungeons.
  • dread4moordread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    Even after threat boost patch, pets are stealing aggro from all tanks.

    image
    Lions stealing aggro from endgame geared Vanguard in CN at Beholder Boss.

    No pet, no matter how Legendary should ever be greater threat builder then a player character tank.


    (Crossposted... was not sure where this should go.)
    JrUzbQw.jpg?1
    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • douglasopferbeckdouglasopferbeck Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    There are very offensive based powers that fit into the defense slots (yojimbo and bear cub come to mind) so perhaps there should be a bit less freaking out...
Sign In or Register to comment.