My money was wasted?

nemesrich · March 2019

I don't like the changes that will be made in MOD 16 to the classes I invested a lot of money in and I don't want to play them. Maybe I could play another classes but I don't really want to start over and definitely don't want to invest money into them.
I will feel to be robbed if mod 16 will be introduced without the chance at least to choose another class for my characters.
Will there be any chance for it?

grumpyowl · March 2019

Don't hold your breath for that one. I too am not very pleased that we spent real cash to purchase specific items, like mounts and companions, from the Zen Store only to have the product that we purchased changed after the fact. They should offer a trade in for a Zen refund to those who want it.

havlocke · March 2019

This happens in every MMO. You don't own anything in the game. If you buy zen, I think they even say that. Unfortunately, we just have to live with it and move on. Move on away from the game if wanted. I certainly didn't get any refund from having lost everything I worked on in City of Heroes or Warhammer Online when they flatlined. Or when they changed the mechanics of my classes in SWTOR.

nemesrich · March 2019

havlocke said:
This happens in every MMO. You don't own anything in the game. If you buy zen, I think they even say that. Unfortunately, we just have to live with it and move on. Move on away from the game if wanted. I certainly didn't get any refund from having lost everything I worked on in City of Heroes or Warhammer Online when they flatlined. Or when they changed the mechanics of my classes in SWTOR.

I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.

krumple01 · March 2019

nemesrich said:

I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.

I think Cryptic doesn't care about any veteran players who have spent any money in the past. They want two of three types of players. They want the naive player that will just deal with any change or nerfing or cash theft and keep blindly playing. The second are brand new players who know nothing of those "crimes" and doesn't have an clue how things were pre-mod 16.

The third type of player cryptic doesn't want around. They are the players who have been playing since launch and have spent lots of money on their characters. They are hoping these players leave.

havlocke · March 2019

nemesrich said:

havlocke said:
This happens in every MMO. You don't own anything in the game. If you buy zen, I think they even say that. Unfortunately, we just have to live with it and move on. Move on away from the game if wanted. I certainly didn't get any refund from having lost everything I worked on in City of Heroes or Warhammer Online when they flatlined. Or when they changed the mechanics of my classes in SWTOR.
I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.

1) There is absolutely ZERO reason to spend money right at this moment. The game is in flux.

2) There is almost no reason to spend money on the game beforehand either. Initially, after buying a single purple mount and VIP, I saw no reason to buy anything else. I HAVE spent money since then, but always treated it as a luxury and essentially treated it as SPENT. In some cases, well spent. No regrets. But gone.

3) Nothing has changed over the years. This is an MMO. You do NOT own your characters. If you think they are being unfair and arbitrary, you should walk. The reason I never played the Wildstar MMO is because I thought what they did to City of Heroes was criminal and I never wanted to deal with that company again. So I didn't.

demonmonger · March 2019

It's a waste... text you in game about the game everyone is transferring to. Let the exodus begin!

nemesrich · March 2019

havlocke said:

nemesrich said:

havlocke said:
This happens in every MMO. You don't own anything in the game. If you buy zen, I think they even say that. Unfortunately, we just have to live with it and move on. Move on away from the game if wanted. I certainly didn't get any refund from having lost everything I worked on in City of Heroes or Warhammer Online when they flatlined. Or when they changed the mechanics of my classes in SWTOR.
I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.

1) There is absolutely ZERO reason to spend money right at this moment. The game is in flux.

2) There is almost no reason to spend money on the game beforehand either. Initially, after buying a single purple mount and VIP, I saw no reason to buy anything else. I HAVE spent money since then, but always treated it as a luxury and essentially treated it as SPENT. In some cases, well spent. No regrets. But gone.

3) Nothing has changed over the years. This is an MMO. You do NOT own your characters. If you think they are being unfair and arbitrary, you should walk. The reason I never played the Wildstar MMO is because I thought what they did to City of Heroes was criminal and I never wanted to deal with that company again. So I didn't.

I rarely spend money on games, Neverwinter was a exception because I knew this is a freetoplay game and I decided to support them every month because I enjoyed it. I didn't really needed the AD or the zen.
Maybe I will walk away or stay but I won't support them if they don't care about me, a customer.

havlocke · March 2019

nemesrich said:

havlocke said:

nemesrich said:

havlocke said:
This happens in every MMO. You don't own anything in the game. If you buy zen, I think they even say that. Unfortunately, we just have to live with it and move on. Move on away from the game if wanted. I certainly didn't get any refund from having lost everything I worked on in City of Heroes or Warhammer Online when they flatlined. Or when they changed the mechanics of my classes in SWTOR.
I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.

1) There is absolutely ZERO reason to spend money right at this moment. The game is in flux.

2) There is almost no reason to spend money on the game beforehand either. Initially, after buying a single purple mount and VIP, I saw no reason to buy anything else. I HAVE spent money since then, but always treated it as a luxury and essentially treated it as SPENT. In some cases, well spent. No regrets. But gone.

3) Nothing has changed over the years. This is an MMO. You do NOT own your characters. If you think they are being unfair and arbitrary, you should walk. The reason I never played the Wildstar MMO is because I thought what they did to City of Heroes was criminal and I never wanted to deal with that company again. So I didn't.
I rarely spend money on games, Neverwinter was a exception because I knew this is a freetoplay game and I decided to support them every month because I enjoyed it. I didn't really needed the AD or the zen.
Maybe I will walk away or stay but I won't support them if they don't care about me, a customer.

This is a Free to Pay game like every other FTP game out there

As for customer care. They do care. That's why they are doing this mod. If they didn't care, they'd just release Undermountain as a new zone, tack on a campaign, make a couple of vanity pets and then go down to the pub. All the doomsayers need to wake up and realise that. If they didn't care, they'd do NOTHING. And the game will meander along for the next year or so and then just fall over dead. Or maybe go on as a zombie with 1/1000th the population.

tgwolf · March 2019

krumple01 said:

nemesrich said:

I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.
I think Cryptic doesn't care about any veteran players who have spent any money in the past. They want two of three types of players. They want the naive player that will just deal with any change or nerfing or cash theft and keep blindly playing. The second are brand new players who know nothing of those "crimes" and doesn't have an clue how things were pre-mod 16.

The third type of player cryptic doesn't want around. They are the players who have been playing since launch and have spent lots of money on their characters. They are hoping these players leave.

Wrong.

The difference between Veteran players and everyone else is we don't spend actual money on anything with a High Cost/Loss Factor. We know the game will change, sometimes drastically and always work around that knowledge. We're Veterans of the game and still here, for a reason.

If you're leaving because you don't like the changes or you can't adapt, fair enough.

But if you're leaving because it will invalidate the massive amount of money you've poured into buying your way through the game aka the consequences of your own choices. That's your problem and you don't deserve nor will you get any sympathy from anyone that matters.

krumple01 · March 2019

tgwolf said:

Wrong.

The difference between Veteran players and everyone else is we don't spend actual money on anything with a High Cost/Loss Factor. We know the game will change, sometimes drastically and always work around that knowledge. We're Veterans of the game and still here, for a reason.

If you're leaving because you don't like the changes or you can't adapt, fair enough.

But if you're leaving because it will invalidate the massive amount of money you've poured into buying your way through the game aka the consequences of your own choices. That's your problem and you don't deserve nor will you get any sympathy from anyone that matters.

What are you talking about? I never said I was leaving, did I? Ive been playing since the game launched. Ive spent money on packs that are old and outdated. Did I complain about that? No. So what are you even talking about?

I'm saying they want the experienced players to leave because they know how to get around without needing to spend money. They have a lot of AD and possibly zen and don't need lockboxes. Also experienced players teach new players what to avoid, what not to do and how lockboxes are a scam. So they don't want these experienced players around. Vets will explain what to avoid and how to make AD sufficiently. Without this advice a new player will waste money, waste ad and waste time.

havlocke · March 2019

krumple01 said:

tgwolf said:

Wrong.

The difference between Veteran players and everyone else is we don't spend actual money on anything with a High Cost/Loss Factor. We know the game will change, sometimes drastically and always work around that knowledge. We're Veterans of the game and still here, for a reason.

If you're leaving because you don't like the changes or you can't adapt, fair enough.

But if you're leaving because it will invalidate the massive amount of money you've poured into buying your way through the game aka the consequences of your own choices. That's your problem and you don't deserve nor will you get any sympathy from anyone that matters.
What are you talking about? I never said I was leaving, did I? Ive been playing since the game launched. Ive spent money on packs that are old and outdated. Did I complain about that? No. So what are you even talking about?

I'm saying they want the experienced players to leave because they know how to get around without needing to spend money. They have a lot of AD and possibly zen and don't need lockboxes. Also experienced players teach new players what to avoid, what not to do and how lockboxes are a scam. So they don't want these experienced players around. Vets will explain what to avoid and how to make AD sufficiently. Without this advice a new player will waste money, waste ad and waste time.

I dunno, I can't say I agree with your assessment at all.

Firstly, this isn't the 2000's. If people want to find information, they google it. Maybe you get lucky and get a coherent answer when asking in zone chat in PE. But I don't think its good odds.

Secondly, its not like they hide the fact that lockboxes are what they are. That's like saying "oh no, we should tell people that going to Vegas is a scam. Quick, before the men in green silence us". People buy them because of the buzz.

Thirdly, experienced players may or may not spend more money on zen stuff simply because they are bored with the game, not because they've "learned tricks". Also, what fkn tricks?? Do Demogorgan. Earn RAD. Its not that complicated any more. Converting AD to Zen?? Hah, that's funny. Next you'll be telling me Rogues get invited to endgame dungeons.

Buying stuff in this game is all about convenience. I can farm and farm and work on it hyper efficiently and then convert to zen and buy stuff. And this works out to working for about 50 cents an hour. I'm sure that there are people out there who will enjoy doing this. But the vast majority (and lets face it, our demographic of gamers are not living on the poverty line) have worked this out and just buy zen every now and then.

krumple01 · March 2019

havlocke said:

I dunno, I can't say I agree with your assessment at all.

Firstly, this isn't the 2000's. If people want to find information, they google it. Maybe you get lucky and get a coherent answer when asking in zone chat in PE. But I don't think its good odds.

Secondly, its not like they hide the fact that lockboxes are what they are. That's like saying "oh no, we should tell people that going to Vegas is a scam. Quick, before the men in green silence us". People buy them because of the buzz.

Thirdly, experienced players may or may not spend more money on zen stuff simply because they are bored with the game, not because they've "learned tricks". Also, what fkn tricks?? Do Demogorgan. Earn RAD. Its not that complicated any more. Converting AD to Zen?? Hah, that's funny. Next you'll be telling me Rogues get invited to endgame dungeons.

Buying stuff in this game is all about convenience. I can farm and farm and work on it hyper efficiently and then convert to zen and buy stuff. And this works out to working for about 50 cents an hour. I'm sure that there are people out there who will enjoy doing this. But the vast majority (and lets face it, our demographic of gamers are not living on the poverty line) have worked this out and just buy zen every now and then.

Who said anything about zone chat? Im talking about guild chat, when new players ask for advice not only do they get corrected but players often tell them what they should be doing instead.

Doesn't matter what is shown in the lockbox. They are misleading and when you can have VIP for six months expecting in that time to get a legendary mount that never happens. Ive seen players complain about it. The majority of the lockboxes give you potions and a few RE gems. Stuff you can get outside the lockboxes easily.

No experienced players don't need to spend money because they have lots of ad and zen. I have over 11k zen stored up with nothing to spend it on. Ive mentioned this to players who are similar or have more. I don't even know why players want to farm edemo, its boring, sure quick but boring. Id rather just run one of each random, if you do one of each you have more than 100k rough by the end.

mentinmindmaker · March 2019

nemesrich said:

I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.

If you think like that you cannot play any game, period. It is the nature of the beast that any benefit you obtain in such games is of a temporary nature.

lantern22 · March 2019

Not everything is temporary.

Boons are still relevant

Enchantments are still relevant

Its just companions and gear we need to change.

Only slightly peeved about the companions, gear - meh we needed to change that eventually.

The lobotomy on the attributes, feats, powers etc. is worse.

Unknown · March 2019

This content has been removed.

sandukutupu · March 2019

nemesrich said:
I don't like the changes that will be made in MOD 16 to the classes I invested a lot of money in and I don't want to play them. Maybe I could play another classes but I don't really want to start over and definitely don't want to invest money into them.
I will feel to be robbed if mod 16 will be introduced without the chance at least to choose another class for my characters.
Will there be any chance for it?

I have mixed emotions about M16, some of my friends who have spent as much as $50 to $100, or dump buckets of cash on the game only want to know when the mod goes live. It is my opinion, they plan to blindly spend more money here. That is their choice and yours too. No one twisted your arm to dump money on Free to Play games. You cannot be robbed, if you are giving it freely.

I feel more "upset" about the Foundry being closed, as you can tell by my signature. Do I feel robbed? No. I feel the developers are jealous of the Foundry Author's talents and our ability to create better content with the broken tools. I also believe they will regret losing the Foundry more than they could know. All good things come to an end, so enjoy them while they last.

havlocke · March 2019

krumple01 said:

havlocke said:

I dunno, I can't say I agree with your assessment at all.

Firstly, this isn't the 2000's. If people want to find information, they google it. Maybe you get lucky and get a coherent answer when asking in zone chat in PE. But I don't think its good odds.

Secondly, its not like they hide the fact that lockboxes are what they are. That's like saying "oh no, we should tell people that going to Vegas is a scam. Quick, before the men in green silence us". People buy them because of the buzz.

Thirdly, experienced players may or may not spend more money on zen stuff simply because they are bored with the game, not because they've "learned tricks". Also, what fkn tricks?? Do Demogorgan. Earn RAD. Its not that complicated any more. Converting AD to Zen?? Hah, that's funny. Next you'll be telling me Rogues get invited to endgame dungeons.

Buying stuff in this game is all about convenience. I can farm and farm and work on it hyper efficiently and then convert to zen and buy stuff. And this works out to working for about 50 cents an hour. I'm sure that there are people out there who will enjoy doing this. But the vast majority (and lets face it, our demographic of gamers are not living on the poverty line) have worked this out and just buy zen every now and then.
Who said anything about zone chat? Im talking about guild chat, when new players ask for advice not only do they get corrected but players often tell them what they should be doing instead.

Doesn't matter what is shown in the lockbox. They are misleading and when you can have VIP for six months expecting in that time to get a legendary mount that never happens. Ive seen players complain about it. The majority of the lockboxes give you potions and a few RE gems. Stuff you can get outside the lockboxes easily.

No experienced players don't need to spend money because they have lots of ad and zen. I have over 11k zen stored up with nothing to spend it on. Ive mentioned this to players who are similar or have more. I don't even know why players want to farm edemo, its boring, sure quick but boring. Id rather just run one of each random, if you do one of each you have more than 100k rough by the end.

1) Zone chat or guild chat. Most newbies - who are usually unguilded because they are you know, new - would use Google. What sort of "tricks" are you teaching your fellow guildies to avoid? Genuinely curious.

2) Does not matter what is shown in the lockbox info. It IS just gambling. People who think its an easy ride to get to a legendary are just dreaming, if it was that easy everybody would have one. The cost in AD in the AH is a better indicator of how "easy" it is. And thats the rule in pretty much every MMO I've ever seen with a player based economy. The players will work out worth much better than anybody else.

3) If you have 11k zen and nothing to spend it on, then you are a perfect example of the problem with the game. There is nothing new for experienced players. With zen or without, there is nowhere to go.

minotaur2857 · March 2019

mentinmindmaker said:

nemesrich said:

I know they have the right to do it but why on earth would I spent money in this game again knowing that I can lose every progression any time? I doubt I will ever trust a company that did it to me again. And I guess I am not alone who thinks this way.
I am curious if these changes will be worth it.
If you think like that you cannot play any game, period. It is the nature of the beast that any benefit you obtain in such games is of a temporary nature.

No, most games don't have discontinuities like this, they're an evolution not a complete tearing up of what went before.

I remember when this happened in CoH and they introduced something even more fun (massively increasing build complexity) and explained the changes were necessary for it to work. The playerbase accepted it although it took a while for some people. The handling by the devs was much better than here.

nemesrich · March 2019

sandukutupu said:

You cannot be robbed, if you are giving it freely.

I

Freely? It seems you don't really understand economics.

sandukutupu · March 2019

nemesrich said:

sandukutupu said:

You cannot be robbed, if you are giving it freely.

I
Freely? It seems you don't really understand economics.

Apparently not, I also don't understand men stuffing dollar bills in stripper's g-string, but they do that.

foxxy · March 2019

demonmonger said:
It's a waste... text you in game about the game everyone is transferring to. Let the exodus begin!

can u text me 2? pIs

nemesrich · March 2019

sandukutupu said:

nemesrich said:

sandukutupu said:

You cannot be robbed, if you are giving it freely.

I
Freely? It seems you don't really understand economics.
Apparently not, I also don't understand men stuffing dollar bills in stripper's g-string, but they do that.

I think the only way to understand it if you try it.

greywynd · March 2019

Tried it. Still don't understand it. You're giving a person money for a few moments of their time. And it isn't like you're apt to get more than that few minutes of their time.

wintersmoke · March 2019

nemesrich said:
I don't like the changes that will be made in MOD 16 to the classes I invested a lot of money in and I don't want to play them. Maybe I could play another classes but I don't really want to start over and definitely don't want to invest money into them.
I will feel to be robbed if mod 16 will be introduced without the chance at least to choose another class for my characters.
Will there be any chance for it?

No, but if you were going to try out new classes, this mod will be the best time to do it.

wintersmoke · March 2019

greywynd said:
Tried it. Still don't understand it. You're giving a person money for a few moments of their time. And it isn't like you're apt to get more than that few minutes of their time.

Exactly how much time do you want for $1? 0,o

badkarma989 · March 2019

Here's an interesting thing for all of us to think about.

Unlike many MMOs, Cryptic created an economic system you're hard pressed to find outside of Eve and a very few other games.

YOU DON'T NEED TO SPEND A SINGLE PENNY OF REAL WORLD CURRENCY.

All you have to do is a couple of hours of dungeon running per day, among every other thing you do, and voila, you've got enough AD to exchange into Zen, bang, there's everything you need. It takes work, it doesn't come fast, no instant gratification, but it's definitely possible and it's stupidly easy.

I've made 1.4 million in the last six days...refined. A couple more weeks of that, I exchange it, I've got the zen for my VIP. And more Zen for whatever else I want to buy. Bust tail on the screwed-up professions and start converting that, I'm a rich man.

And not a penny of my cash spent.

so what are you all whinging about?

plasticbat · March 2019

harbtanzer said:
Here's an interesting thing for all of us to think about.

Unlike many MMOs, Cryptic created an economic system you're hard pressed to find outside of Eve and a very few other games.

YOU DON'T NEED TO SPEND A SINGLE PENNY OF REAL WORLD CURRENCY.

All you have to do is a couple of hours of dungeon running per day, among every other thing you do, and voila, you've got enough AD to exchange into Zen, bang, there's everything you need. It takes work, it doesn't come fast, no instant gratification, but it's definitely possible and it's stupidly easy.

I've made 1.4 million in the last six days...refined. A couple more weeks of that, I exchange it, I've got the zen for my VIP. And more Zen for whatever else I want to buy. Bust tail on the screwed-up professions and start converting that, I'm a rich man.

And not a penny of my cash spent.

so what are you all whinging about?

They complained because they are probably not doing what you are doing.
You do not complain because there are people not doing what you are doing.

dread4moor · March 2019

> @nemesrich said:
> I don't like the changes that will be made in MOD 16 to the classes I invested a lot of money in and I don't want to play them. Maybe I could play another classes but I don't really want to start over and definitely don't want to invest money into them.
> I will feel to be robbed if mod 16 will be introduced without the chance at least to choose another class for my characters.
> Will there be any chance for it?

Sympathy for your feelings on this.
Made the same futile request, but mostly as a vent: They'll never do it, I know. No harm expressing it.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246510/m16-request-one-free-full-race-class-change-per-account-please

As others have said, MMO charges are SERVICE transactions, not purchases.

We do not own anything. It is proprietary digital information owned by the company. They have the legal right to xelete it at anytime.

But that doesn't mean they should. My greatest objection is the shockingly uboquitous erasure of our virtual "investments" in a game that intends to continue running for a few more years.

It is their legal right, true.
But it does not seem like a smart business decision.

sandukutupu · March 2019

dread4moor said:
> @nemesrich said:

> I don't like the changes that will be made in MOD 16 to the classes I invested a lot of money in and I don't want to play them. Maybe I could play another classes but I don't really want to start over and definitely don't want to invest money into them.

> I will feel to be robbed if mod 16 will be introduced without the chance at least to choose another class for my characters.

> Will there be any chance for it?

Sympathy for your feelings on this.

Made the same futile request, but mostly as a vent: They'll never do it, I know. No harm expressing it.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1246510/m16-request-one-free-full-race-class-change-per-account-please

As others have said, MMO charges are SERVICE transactions, not purchases.

We do not own anything. It is proprietary digital information owned by the company. They have the legal right to xelete it at anytime.

But that doesn't mean they should. My greatest objection is the shockingly uboquitous erasure of our virtual "investments" in a game that intends to continue running for a few more years.

It is their legal right, true.

But it does not seem like a smart business decision.

A lot of the items on preview are replaced simply by going to the exchange NPC, beside the reward agent. So far on the list are Leeching and Vigor Insignia and Eldritch for Bonding, etc.. However there has never been an exchange on class. The OP is asking if they can swap classes without the need to create a new one. The character class is not something you buy. There have been, and always will be, nerfs to the 8 classes. I play 6 out of the 8 classes and Cleric is going to suck (my opinion) but I can park him or use him for low level runs, and just play the others, until the developers improve the class. You should learn the class from level 1 to 70 (soon to be 80) and I think the worst thing anyone could do is jump into an unfamiliar class on the last level. I don't know of any online game that allows you to change class just because you got nerfed.

sgtpostal · March 2019

i kno of one mmo that allows u to change ur "class" per say when things get neffed
dcuo
althougth u gotta pay for it.... u can change ur power on there at any given time nerf or not (effectivly changeing ur class if u donot pick a power that has the same class ability such as healer power to healer power or tank to tank power an whtnot) but unlke nw there arent any "class" specific abilities per race (hell there aint evn any races on dc other then boy/girl lol) soooo

My money was wasted?

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