it started out that way for Barbarian but view all the support and interaction for Barbarian forum, its working well ! Now we need same help for Hr keep at it all. we cant let if happen to us this time, IF they think no one plays HR then we are lost
it started out that way for Barbarian but view all the support and interaction for Barbarian forum, its working well ! Now we need same help for Hr keep at it all. we cant let if happen to us this time, IF they think no one plays HR then we are lost
Looks like the developer overdo the barb/gwf again. It will never end if they keep doing this to every class and in the end, its power creep all over again. What's the point of doing this class overhaul anyway. In my opinion, the dev need to get in control of this arm race. They cant just listen to player feed back alone. They need to do some testing of their own.
it started out that way for Barbarian but view all the support and interaction for Barbarian forum, its working well ! Now we need same help for Hr keep at it all. we cant let if happen to us this time, IF they think no one plays HR then we are lost
Looks like the developer overdo the barb/gwf again. It will never end if they keep doing this to every class and in the end, its power creep all over again. What's the point of doing this class overhaul anyway. In my opinion, the dev need to get in control of this arm race. They cant just listen to player feed back alone. They need to do some testing of their own.
They have been and are. But there are only a few of them. They cannot test to the extent that the community at large can. That's why ALL well done games have a robust and active alpha and beta test for content. Also, the more people that make ideas and preferences known, the better the devs can tune classes to be balanced and enjoyable. Our feedback should be important because it can make things better and easier. It's easy to discouraged by the differences in communication and feedback loop between the different devs, but we shouldn't and can't just give up and not care.
Argh, I wish my crappy old PC had memory space left for preview.
Look at those figures again, but now imagine an equally pimped out barbie...
"Hey GWFs, mod16, so I've got some good news and some bad news..." "Oh, err, right, so... what's the good news..?" "Well, don't worry, you're all gonna be top dps again." "Cool beanz!!! But wait, so what's the bad news..?" "We nerfed the name of your class."
If you aren't going to fix the class how about at least giving a Class reroll. I know mod 15 killed my interest in putting money into the game. At this point trying to build up an HR again so it can be completely MEH is just not desirable and putting the effort into building up the I level of a new character in a game that is likely in it's death throes is just not really interesting.
Since the purpose of support classes are not existent any more we will be judge by the final outcome. So as a dps class we will be judged by the dps we can provide. If we cannot compete with the other dps classes there is no point of even exist. In this thread there are many valid points on how some of our powers are under powered, feats on the wrong paragon path, minor or major things that will improve our QoL like the small dodge or the extremely long animations of powers, various types of roots when there is no reason etc. We know that the majority of players over the years turned to GWF because the dps was superior compared to every other dps classes. But this is a new starting point. Please reconsider the argument that we "overbalanced" because we are not.
2
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited March 2019
I am just wondering how feasible a "pure archery" Ranger is. I enjoy archery as such, leveled one HR up to 70, just focusing on archery, but as you all know, that has not been considered usable in groups - partly because a ranger that is standing away from the group will not benefit from the massive buffs in M15.
Now, that the massive buffs are going away, has the archery Ranger become viable?
it started out that way for Barbarian but view all the support and interaction for Barbarian forum, its working well ! Now we need same help for Hr keep at it all. we cant let if happen to us this time, IF they think no one plays HR then we are lost
Looks like the developer overdo the barb/gwf again. It will never end if they keep doing this to every class and in the end, its power creep all over again. What's the point of doing this class overhaul anyway. In my opinion, the dev need to get in control of this arm race. They cant just listen to player feed back alone. They need to do some testing of their own.
They have been and are. But there are only a few of them. They cannot test to the extent that the community at large can. That's why ALL well done games have a robust and active alpha and beta test for content. Also, the more people that make ideas and preferences known, the better the devs can tune classes to be balanced and enjoyable. Our feedback should be important because it can make things better and easier. It's easy to discouraged by the differences in communication and feedback loop between the different devs, but we shouldn't and can't just give up and not care.
Then we will never see true balance. Just look at the forum. How many post are there that are actually honest and not with hidden agenda? The developer need to set their own standard in class balancing instead of listening to feedback. It doesn't take much common sense to figure player feedback are mostly bias. Just look at what gwf/barb feedback did. It all back to square one again.
@noworries#8859 please check with your college again. If one of the class they in charge has better performance, pls ask them to tone it back down to the equal level.
> @adinosii said: > I am just wondering how feasible a "pure archery" Ranger is. I Enjoy archery as such, leveled one HR up to 70, just focusing on archery, but as you all know, that has not been considered usable in groups - partly because a ranger that is standing away from the group will not benefit from the massive buffs in M15. > > Now, that the massive buffs are going away, has the archery Ranger become viable?
At the moment, single-target archery-focused hunter is the only build which can deal any noticeable damage in epic dungeons. So yes archery will be there.
It still needs some significant boosts to compete with other DPS classes, and trapper and melee even more so, but we may get there.
> I am just wondering how feasible a "pure archery" Ranger is. I Enjoy archery as such, leveled one HR up to 70, just focusing on archery, but as you all know, that has not been considered usable in groups - partly because a ranger that is standing away from the group will not benefit from the massive buffs in M15.
>
> Now, that the massive buffs are going away, has the archery Ranger become viable?
At the moment, single-target archery-focused hunter is the only build which can deal any noticeable damage in epic dungeons. So yes archery will be there.
It still needs some significant boosts to compete with other DPS classes, and trapper and melee even more so, but we may get there.
i think the power 'Split the Sky' should either be 1) moved to the pathfinder paragon as that seems the best path for ranged attacks or 2) placed in both storm warden and pathfinder paragons
Hey everyone - I wanted to take a moment to thank you all for the feedback you have been giving. We've made a bunch of action items out of your feedback, that are actively helping to make Ranger better. As one of the Systems Designers on the team, and the person who (quite possibly) plays Ranger the most around here, I want you to know that there is someone here who espouses the betterment of Rangers, and the fixing of pain-points. I'm not specifically working on the class changes, but I am going into our daily playtests and trying different builds so I can give good feedback to those making the class changes. I also sit right next to those making class changes, and have no qualms in sharing my numerous opinions.
I know there hasn't been much Dev interaction in this thread, but I want you to know I have been skulking in the shadows, and making action items out of what I have been seeing. I also want to stress that we aren't done making changes yet - there's still road for us to travel as we receive feedback and talk about potential changes.
Oh, and before I slink back to the shadows, I want you to know that Aimed Shot has been in our crosshairs for weeks now.
-Neverwinter Systems Designer
10
feanor70118Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,170Arc User
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
Moderator edited for flaming.
A partial list follows:
1) At-wills are woefully underpowered to the point of being useless except, of course, in a combat build. They should be tested against GWF/Barbarian and made equal in DPS. 2) Stealth and healing abilities are nonfunctional. We get targeted through stealth up to a full second after entering it in pvp. Animations for Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot and probably others are visible to other players even when used from stealth. The temp HP from Stag Heart (and whatever class aspect- cruel recovery?) is laughably small. The healing from Oak Skin is laughably small. 3) Movement is much too slow. We get outrun by every other class even though we're lightly armored and should be the fastest class. This handicaps the class in both pve and pvp. The movement buffs available from class aspects and mount buffs are too small and too brief to help (and require giving up more useful bonuses from other available choices). The movement buff from Longstrider's Shot has been removed for some reason, making the problem even worse. 4) The dodge is still too small. It doesn't get us out of most AoE effects or, in pvp, other classes' melee attacks. 5) Stamina regeneration is much too slow, especially considering that we have to dodge twice as much as other classes because the dodge is too small. 6) The lack of a control break/immunity handicaps the class when dealing damage to bosses or mobs/elites with control abilities. Our self-buffing combos constantly get interrupted or completely nullified in pve. 7) Cooldown times are the longest in the game, and the charge refill time for cordon of arrows is ludicrous. Bring them into line with other classes. 8) Ranged combat remains neglected for all classes and this could be corrected simply by making range irrelevant to party buffing/healing abilities. The mod 16 change to Aspect of the Falcon is exactly the wrong response to this problem. It removes variety and flexibility from play styles. 9) Animations for almost all abilities are too long, allowing mobs and other players to close with the ranger or . They should be brought into line with other classes. The worst offenders are Boar Charge with the way it freezes the player at the end of the animation, Split The Sky, Commanding Shot, Aimed Shot, Gushing Wound, Cordon Of Arrows, Rain Of Arrows, Aimed Strike and Split Shot. 10) Combatant's Maneuver doesn't work for any ability except Boar Charge, which no one uses in pve. 11) Thorned roots damage should stack. 12) As others have noted, there's no reason to have more than one type of roots. All roots should be changed to strong grasping roots. 13) Undo the change to Aspect Of The Pack. It's completely wrongheaded. As others have noted, it prevents a team from achieving combat advantage - which will be much more important in mod 16 - against certain bosses. 14) Most class aspects are utterly useless. The rest are only marginally useful. Pathfinder's action grants a buff after using dailies but we can't use dailies so much anymore. Primal Instincts only increases the buffs from two abilities, which are RANGED, and you've pretty much tried to write ranged combat out of the game. The 2 second ICD in Cruel Recovery makes it useless given how much damage mobs do. Stormstep Action requires using a daily, which we can't do so much anymore. Aspect of the Lone Wolf should be available to both paragon paths and available RIGHT AWAY instead of at level 75. 15) And oh yeah, lordaelos demonstrated that our damage is 1/2-1/3 what it should be, so work on that please. 16) Undo the mod 15 nerf to Aspect of the Serpent. It was left over from when the team proposed, in a bad idea, to increase the number of stacks. Instead we got the slightly less bad idea to nerf the trapper path, which was already inadequate in pve. Now that nerf has been made even worse with mod 16, reducing the value of a stack to 2%. 17) Thorned roots damage doesn't scale with enchantments. This is well documented in bug reports. 18) The segregation of powers between the new warden and hunter paths does not make sense. Fox's Cunning, Binding Arrow and Thorn Ward should be available to both. The number of powers that are restricted by paragon path should therefore be reduced to previous levels. 19) Biting Snares' ICD of 20 seconds makes it useless. 20) We shouldn't have to choose between Forestbond and Commander In Chief. 21) Also, we shouldn't have to use feat points on cooldown reductions at all. Cooldowns should just be reduced so that, like every other class, we can use those feat points to buff the class in other ways. This is one of several ways in which this class has always been handicapped in comparison to other classes. 22) Plant Growth is a big tangle of roots. It should therefore proc grasping roots. It should also be a persistent AoE like Smoke Bomb so that it affects any opponent who wanders into the area within its duration after being fired.
Hey everyone - I wanted to take a moment to thank you all for the feedback you have been giving. We've made a bunch of action items out of your feedback, that are actively helping to make Ranger better. As one of the Systems Designers on the team, and the person who (quite possibly) plays Ranger the most around here, I want you to know that there is someone here who espouses the betterment of Rangers, and the fixing of pain-points. I'm not specifically working on the class changes, but I am going into our daily playtests and trying different builds so I can give good feedback to those making the class changes. I also sit right next to those making class changes, and have no qualms in sharing my numerous opinions.
I know there hasn't been much Dev interaction in this thread, but I want you to know I have been skulking in the shadows, and making action items out of what I have been seeing. I also want to stress that we aren't done making changes yet - there's still road for us to travel as we receive feedback and talk about potential changes.
Oh, and before I slink back to the shadows, I want you to know that Aimed Shot has been in our crosshairs for weeks now.
Thanks. I appreciate all your effort and hard work u put in to make HR a better class. However I do hope that your team could work together between each other in keeping the balance between all Dps role. lordaeolos posted a test on this thread ( page 5) that a barbarian could out perform HR by 90-100% with an inferior gear set. This isn't the balance we are promised in mod16. The difference is just too huge. Although I cant be sure if the test is genuine or something that is deliberate to cause drama or maybe there is some bug involved, I would appreciate if u could have a check on that. Thanks.
I haven't had a chance to run ACT on it, but the combat log shows Careful Attack doing 0 damage on all procs. ETA: ACT showed a total of four damaging procs over the course of a full expedition. Testing on dummies has yet to yield a single proc.
Warden needs significant magnitude tweaks to its powers to even have a chance of competing with Hunter.
@rhroudadev#5641 hey, thnx for saying hi, good to know someone's out there flitting through the shadows. Sorry if HRs come off as a little bitter and twisted sometimes, many of us remember mod6 when the level cap went from 60-70 and our class slowly fell off the map, so we're hopefully understandably a little on edge en masse right now.
Feanor's list is pretty much comprehensive. I'll just be happy if next mod when I'm on the looking for group channel I see "LFmore dps HR/Brb/etc." And get a cc break/++movement speed in pvp.
No idea what my toon is now.
3
lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Hey everyone - I wanted to take a moment to thank you all for the feedback you have been giving. We've made a bunch of action items out of your feedback, that are actively helping to make Ranger better. As one of the Systems Designers on the team, and the person who (quite possibly) plays Ranger the most around here, I want you to know that there is someone here who espouses the betterment of Rangers, and the fixing of pain-points. I'm not specifically working on the class changes, but I am going into our daily playtests and trying different builds so I can give good feedback to those making the class changes. I also sit right next to those making class changes, and have no qualms in sharing my numerous opinions.
I know there hasn't been much Dev interaction in this thread, but I want you to know I have been skulking in the shadows, and making action items out of what I have been seeing. I also want to stress that we aren't done making changes yet - there's still road for us to travel as we receive feedback and talk about potential changes.
Oh, and before I slink back to the shadows, I want you to know that Aimed Shot has been in our crosshairs for weeks now.
Thanks. I appreciate all your effort and hard work u put in to make HR a better class. However I do hope that your team could work together between each other in keeping the balance between all Dps role. lordaeolos posted a test on this thread ( page 5) that a barbarian could out perform HR by 90-100% with an inferior gear set. This isn't the balance we are promised in mod16. The difference is just too huge. Although I cant be sure if the test is genuine or something that is deliberate to cause drama or maybe there is some bug involved, I would appreciate if u could have a check on that. Thanks.
Also thanks for looking into aimed shot.
@kangkeok The test was genuine, though following the Barbarian forum we do know that there are some bugs in that class giving it more damage than it should have, and should be addressed in the patch this week... I have since tested the Ranger versus a similar geared Wizard (22.8k) which is doing about 25% better than the ranger, and a much lower geared Rogue (15k) was slightly better than the Ranger (against testing Single target damage against target dummies with a 1 minute timer). I will save any further comparison testing for after this next patch (provided something happens with the Ranger this round)
@rhroudadev#5641 thank you so much for chiming in on this thread, there is a pretty small number of the "elite" HR's left in the game on PC, many have moved on to other classes (or left the game) due to the many problems inherent to past class updates. As a software developer myself I completely understand the priority constraints that come from being up against a deadline; however the interaction on this forum does help show that items brought up in here are not merely being read past... Think of it this way: Let's say I was reading last night and my wife starts talking to me, but I don't look up, then she asks "are you listening to me?" and I respond "Yes" and she goes "what did I say then?" ... If my response is "You said some stuff, and don't worry I've got it", I would say that the response is going to be pretty negative, even though I really was listening, and I did plan to take care of the issues brought up (ok.. ok.. I do have some experience with that response...); if my response instead were to address the issues brought up, acknowledge them and tell her what challenges are faced her response is going to be far more positive and the followup dialog constructive.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
oak skin,stag heart shouls be doubled. "Prey" damage bonus should be increased(currently 5%). Base movement speed should be GREATLY increased. Base damage of everything should be increased.
Hey um, why IS Forest Medicine gone? I get why lifesteal had to go, but what's gamebreaking about spending a daily on healing? It doesn't invalidate the Failure State of healer resources, because it, too, is both on a cooldown and consumes a precious resource, and having the ability to slot a daily to take some pressure off the healer in clutch situations is a good abstraction of the general utility tabletop rangers get from their limited-but-specialized spell selection(including the ability to use Cure wands to save money on potions).
16) Undo the mod 15 nerf to Aspect of the Serpent. It was left over from when the team proposed, in a bad idea, to increase the number of stacks. Instead we got the slightly less bad idea to nerf the trapper path, which was already inadequate in pve. Now that nerf has been made even worse with mod 16, reducing the value of a stack to 2%.
In private beta it used to give 3% stacking 3 times, however it couldnt build both stacks simultaneously, which made it feel horrible to play. I suggested a lower buff, but being able to build both stacks, and here we are.
There is other stuff i would argue with you on, but i just wanted to tell you about that one thing specifically as i had influence on it.
And why would it be game breaking for us to have a *gasp* 3% bonus and simultaneous stacks? My devout DC has an easier time dealing damage right now.
I agree with you that It feels weak, but I was trying to balance what I had relative to other things the class had. I wasnt going to give a perma 9% buff if you alternated skills. Thats too strong compared to the other buff / class features the class has.
That being said, i probably still wouldnt use it over aspect of the pack + falcon / seekers, as these are way to easy to obtain and are very strong buffs in comparison.
It's too weak relative to the other features. I think it should be 2.5% honestly. And that with some other damage tweaks as well because overall damage is really low right now, but I don't want the fix to that to come from one skill.
BUG 1: Marauder's Escape doesn't respect damage buff from Longshot feat (Hunter paragon) Conditions: 1. Trade of Blades, dummy level 9 (tried on different dummies). 2. STR = 20, Power = 0, no companions, feats, buffs, weapon enchant (naked) 3. Passives Cruel Recovery, Primal Instincts (tried to swap each with Pathfinder's action to exclude chance of impact from passive) 4. only main hand weapon with fixed damage slotted
Actual result without Longshot feat (OK) weapon 1000 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 1750 weapon 100 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 175
Actual result WITH Longshot feat (BUG) weapon 1000 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 1750 weapon 100 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 175
Expected result WITH Longshot feat weapon 1000 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 2625 weapon 100 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 263
NOTE: same test with Constricting Arrow shows the following: weapon 1000: 5145 (without feat) and 7717 (with feat) weapon 100: 514 (without feat) and 772 (with feat) OK.
Please, fix
BUG 2: Marauder's Escape hits 4 times Same conditions, fixed dmg 100 weapon, aim and cast Marauder's escape on dummy:
4 hits with 175 damage each for the total of 700 Tooltip says 525 and 3 hits.
NOTE: you can sometimes proc 5 hits, but that doesn't repro consistently
FEEDBACK: Why Marauder's Escape is not auto-target? Is it a bug or intended? If you jump or target lock, you can miss hit with marauder's escape.
BUG 3: Hindering Shot tooltip is not correct Says that it gives 130 magnitude, Actual: 140.
Suggestion: update tooltip
FEEDBACK: Add Strong Grasping Roots to Hidering Shot Many times people asked for this change, and I wanna join that feedback. 1. We don't need 3 types of roots: "Strong", "Weak" and "Root" - I think this module is about simplification, right, so, my suggestion is to simplify it. 2. Hindering is only good in AoE rotation in new mod. Not due to Hindering shot being so good against multiple targets obviously, but due to its melee counterpart Hindering Strike (which btw is one of the best hitting powers for hybrid build atm). So, making it proc Strong Roots, you contribute to the skill AoE capabilities, which seems pretty reasonable on Hunter path.
Also, please fix roots on Hindering Strike (they are still doing 0 damage).
@kangkeok The test was genuine, though following the Barbarian forum we do know that there are some bugs in that class giving it more damage than it should have, and should be addressed in the patch this week... I have since tested the Ranger versus a similar geared Wizard (22.8k) which is doing about 25% better than the ranger, and a much lower geared Rogue (15k) was slightly better than the Ranger (against testing Single target damage against target dummies with a 1 minute timer). I will save any further comparison testing for after this next patch (provided something happens with the Ranger this round)
I appreciate your effort on this but I think a more solid test report like ACT would be more helpful to the developer to further analyze where went wrong.
@kangkeok The test was genuine, though following the Barbarian forum we do know that there are some bugs in that class giving it more damage than it should have, and should be addressed in the patch this week... I have since tested the Ranger versus a similar geared Wizard (22.8k) which is doing about 25% better than the ranger, and a much lower geared Rogue (15k) was slightly better than the Ranger (against testing Single target damage against target dummies with a 1 minute timer). I will save any further comparison testing for after this next patch (provided something happens with the Ranger this round)
I appreciate your effort on this but I think a more solid test report like ACT would be more helpful to the developer to further analyze where went wrong.
+1 just hopped to ptr today to check some stuff. Tested 2 powers, found 3 bugs :-)
BTW, about Ambush:
I think they fixed that interaction with Longstrider (or maybe I had something that was breaking that interaction). Checked today: I can proc Ambush consistently when I cast LSS (checked with Vorpal and without Vorpal).
However, there are still some bad things about Ambush: I can confirm that stealth on Ambush is broken by Split Shot and Aimed Shot Animation (weird, because other long cast powers, i.e. Snipe, Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot do not break it).
Second issue that you can proc Ambush twice on Rapid Volley, Hindering Strike, RoA, etc. It would make more sense if it either multiprocced or procced once.
@kangkeok The test was genuine, though following the Barbarian forum we do know that there are some bugs in that class giving it more damage than it should have, and should be addressed in the patch this week... I have since tested the Ranger versus a similar geared Wizard (22.8k) which is doing about 25% better than the ranger, and a much lower geared Rogue (15k) was slightly better than the Ranger (against testing Single target damage against target dummies with a 1 minute timer). I will save any further comparison testing for after this next patch (provided something happens with the Ranger this round)
I appreciate your effort on this but I think a more solid test report like ACT would be more helpful to the developer to further analyze where went wrong.
+1 just hopped to ptr today to check some stuff. Tested 2 powers, found 3 bugs :-)
BTW, about Ambush:
I think they fixed that interaction with Longstrider (or maybe I had something that was breaking that interaction). Checked today: I can proc Ambush consistently when I cast LSS (checked with Vorpal and without Vorpal).
However, there are still some bad things about Ambush: I can confirm that stealth on Ambush is broken by Split Shot and Aimed Shot Animation (weird, because other long cast powers, i.e. Snipe, Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot do not break it).
Second issue that you can proc Ambush twice on Rapid Volley, Hindering Strike, RoA, etc. It would make more sense if it either multiprocced or procced once.
Yup. I hope they look into ambush too. Its has buggy interaction with other powers.
FEEDBACK: Aspect of the pack needs to be reverted back to its mod 15 state or changed If you are within 30' or less with your ally, then you and ally get 500 CA, capped at 2500 - is laughable. We are talking about stat values O(10000) here. This power grants O(1000) = o(10000). Nobody has use of that 2500 stats (less than 2500 in real runs, actually) Nobody will rely on HR giving him 500 CA
Excuse me, but that's a BAD DESIGN to add (fixed) stats to passives: this brings nothing to gameplay, this loses utility while the classes progress through new modules.
Options that I see: - return AotP back to mod 15 state (bad, but acceptable solution) - change it to something generic but useful for teamplay: e.g. you and allies within 30' range deal 5% more damage. - change it to something interesting: you lose 10% critical severity, but each hit on target(s) has 20% chance to add DoT to target 25-50 magnitude per second (not precise numbers, just idea) while at least 2 teammates are within 30' range.
FEEDBACK: Forestbond/Commander in chief cooldown reductions are not enough. They look balanced on paper (aka 2 sec reduction from Commander is useful for ranged single target and roots can be procced quite often, giving ~1 sec cooldown each time -seems great, isn't it?) However, it just doesn't 'feel' right in comparison to Warden's colldowns (we're talking about gameplay here, right? - it feels slow). My suggestion is to raise it up to 7.5-10% on Forestbond and 3 sec on Commander (if it ends up bad, you can always reduce them back).
@noworries#8859@rhroudadev#5641@asterdahl Guys, just a matter of interest: why does this thread has way less feedback from devs than CW/GWF thread? Don't you think it's discouraging players and makes them to provide less feedback? When I read posts by @asterdahl in GWF thread, i can understand what devs will be focused at and what they won't be focused at. But here... we know only that there are tickets created for HR improvement, but what do those tickets contain except for Aimed Shot balancing? It's absolutely not clear! - How are we supposed to know that? It scares people away, because they think that the class will remain in its current broken non-balanced state (no, i do not agree that something that has so many bugs is "overbalanced", unless "overbalanced" = "buggy, so it cannot be balanced over in proper way").
You give nice feedback in other threads! Please, give us more feedback in this thread as well! Please, let us know what you are going to fix/improve on HR and what you consider WAI and why!
To players who care about HR: Please, do not ignore this thread, provide all feedback that you can. Please, report all bugs that you see (if they improve performance, that may be followed up by nerf of other WAI thing and when the bug is fixed, performance will be worse). Please, do not be shy to complain (aka QQ :-)) about bad features/powers: that QQ will let devs know that you do not enjoy these particular powers/features. QQ should be constructive though: explain why you do not enjoy this power/feat, suggest the solution - it really helps.
Comments
Look at those figures again, but now imagine an equally pimped out barbie...
"Hey GWFs, mod16, so I've got some good news and some bad news..."
"Oh, err, right, so... what's the good news..?"
"Well, don't worry, you're all gonna be top dps again."
"Cool beanz!!! But wait, so what's the bad news..?"
"We nerfed the name of your class."
Now, that the massive buffs are going away, has the archery Ranger become viable?
@noworries#8859 please check with your college again. If one of the class they in charge has better performance, pls ask them to tone it back down to the equal level.
> I am just wondering how feasible a "pure archery" Ranger is. I Enjoy archery as such, leveled one HR up to 70, just focusing on archery, but as you all know, that has not been considered usable in groups - partly because a ranger that is standing away from the group will not benefit from the massive buffs in M15.
>
> Now, that the massive buffs are going away, has the archery Ranger become viable?
At the moment, single-target archery-focused hunter is the only build which can deal any noticeable damage in epic dungeons. So yes archery will be there.
It still needs some significant boosts to compete with other DPS classes, and trapper and melee even more so, but we may get there.
I know there hasn't been much Dev interaction in this thread, but I want you to know I have been skulking in the shadows, and making action items out of what I have been seeing. I also want to stress that we aren't done making changes yet - there's still road for us to travel as we receive feedback and talk about potential changes.
Oh, and before I slink back to the shadows, I want you to know that Aimed Shot has been in our crosshairs for weeks now.
A partial list follows:
1) At-wills are woefully underpowered to the point of being useless except, of course, in a combat build. They should be tested against GWF/Barbarian and made equal in DPS.
2) Stealth and healing abilities are nonfunctional. We get targeted through stealth up to a full second after entering it in pvp. Animations for Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot and probably others are visible to other players even when used from stealth. The temp HP from Stag Heart (and whatever class aspect- cruel recovery?) is laughably small. The healing from Oak Skin is laughably small.
3) Movement is much too slow. We get outrun by every other class even though we're lightly armored and should be the fastest class. This handicaps the class in both pve and pvp. The movement buffs available from class aspects and mount buffs are too small and too brief to help (and require giving up more useful bonuses from other available choices). The movement buff from Longstrider's Shot has been removed for some reason, making the problem even worse.
4) The dodge is still too small. It doesn't get us out of most AoE effects or, in pvp, other classes' melee attacks.
5) Stamina regeneration is much too slow, especially considering that we have to dodge twice as much as other classes because the dodge is too small.
6) The lack of a control break/immunity handicaps the class when dealing damage to bosses or mobs/elites with control abilities. Our self-buffing combos constantly get interrupted or completely nullified in pve.
7) Cooldown times are the longest in the game, and the charge refill time for cordon of arrows is ludicrous. Bring them into line with other classes.
8) Ranged combat remains neglected for all classes and this could be corrected simply by making range irrelevant to party buffing/healing abilities. The mod 16 change to Aspect of the Falcon is exactly the wrong response to this problem. It removes variety and flexibility from play styles.
9) Animations for almost all abilities are too long, allowing mobs and other players to close with the ranger or . They should be brought into line with other classes. The worst offenders are Boar Charge with the way it freezes the player at the end of the animation, Split The Sky, Commanding Shot, Aimed Shot, Gushing Wound, Cordon Of Arrows, Rain Of Arrows, Aimed Strike and Split Shot.
10) Combatant's Maneuver doesn't work for any ability except Boar Charge, which no one uses in pve.
11) Thorned roots damage should stack.
12) As others have noted, there's no reason to have more than one type of roots. All roots should be changed to strong grasping roots.
13) Undo the change to Aspect Of The Pack. It's completely wrongheaded. As others have noted, it prevents a team from achieving combat advantage - which will be much more important in mod 16 - against certain bosses.
14) Most class aspects are utterly useless. The rest are only marginally useful. Pathfinder's action grants a buff after using dailies but we can't use dailies so much anymore. Primal Instincts only increases the buffs from two abilities, which are RANGED, and you've pretty much tried to write ranged combat out of the game. The 2 second ICD in Cruel Recovery makes it useless given how much damage mobs do. Stormstep Action requires using a daily, which we can't do so much anymore. Aspect of the Lone Wolf should be available to both paragon paths and available RIGHT AWAY instead of at level 75.
15) And oh yeah, lordaelos demonstrated that our damage is 1/2-1/3 what it should be, so work on that please.
16) Undo the mod 15 nerf to Aspect of the Serpent. It was left over from when the team proposed, in a bad idea, to increase the number of stacks. Instead we got the slightly less bad idea to nerf the trapper path, which was already inadequate in pve. Now that nerf has been made even worse with mod 16, reducing the value of a stack to 2%.
17) Thorned roots damage doesn't scale with enchantments. This is well documented in bug reports.
18) The segregation of powers between the new warden and hunter paths does not make sense. Fox's Cunning, Binding Arrow and Thorn Ward should be available to both. The number of powers that are restricted by paragon path should therefore be reduced to previous levels.
19) Biting Snares' ICD of 20 seconds makes it useless.
20) We shouldn't have to choose between Forestbond and Commander In Chief.
21) Also, we shouldn't have to use feat points on cooldown reductions at all. Cooldowns should just be reduced so that, like every other class, we can use those feat points to buff the class in other ways. This is one of several ways in which this class has always been handicapped in comparison to other classes.
22) Plant Growth is a big tangle of roots. It should therefore proc grasping roots. It should also be a persistent AoE like Smoke Bomb so that it affects any opponent who wanders into the area within its duration after being fired.
Also thanks for looking into aimed shot.
I haven't had a chance to run ACT on it, butthe combat log shows Careful Attack doing 0 damage on all procs. ETA: ACT showed a total of four damaging procs over the course of a full expedition. Testing on dummies has yet to yield a single proc.Warden needs significant magnitude tweaks to its powers to even have a chance of competing with Hunter.
Feanor's list is pretty much comprehensive. I'll just be happy if next mod when I'm on the looking for group channel I see "LFmore dps HR/Brb/etc." And get a cc break/++movement speed in pvp.
@rhroudadev#5641 thank you so much for chiming in on this thread, there is a pretty small number of the "elite" HR's left in the game on PC, many have moved on to other classes (or left the game) due to the many problems inherent to past class updates. As a software developer myself I completely understand the priority constraints that come from being up against a deadline; however the interaction on this forum does help show that items brought up in here are not merely being read past... Think of it this way: Let's say I was reading last night and my wife starts talking to me, but I don't look up, then she asks "are you listening to me?" and I respond "Yes" and she goes "what did I say then?" ... If my response is "You said some stuff, and don't worry I've got it", I would say that the response is going to be pretty negative, even though I really was listening, and I did plan to take care of the issues brought up (ok.. ok.. I do have some experience with that response...); if my response instead were to address the issues brought up, acknowledge them and tell her what challenges are faced her response is going to be far more positive and the followup dialog constructive.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
There is other stuff i would argue with you on, but i just wanted to tell you about that one thing specifically as i had influence on it.
That being said, i probably still wouldnt use it over aspect of the pack + falcon / seekers, as these are way to easy to obtain and are very strong buffs in comparison.
BUG 1: Marauder's Escape doesn't respect damage buff from Longshot feat (Hunter paragon)
Conditions:
1. Trade of Blades, dummy level 9 (tried on different dummies).
2. STR = 20, Power = 0, no companions, feats, buffs, weapon enchant (naked)
3. Passives Cruel Recovery, Primal Instincts (tried to swap each with Pathfinder's action to exclude chance of impact from passive)
4. only main hand weapon with fixed damage slotted
Actual result without Longshot feat (OK)
weapon 1000 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 1750
weapon 100 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 175
Actual result WITH Longshot feat (BUG)
weapon 1000 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 1750
weapon 100 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 175
Expected result WITH Longshot feat
weapon 1000 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 2625
weapon 100 on hit (pre-mitigated) returns 263
NOTE: same test with Constricting Arrow shows the following:
weapon 1000: 5145 (without feat) and 7717 (with feat)
weapon 100: 514 (without feat) and 772 (with feat)
OK.
Please, fix
BUG 2: Marauder's Escape hits 4 times
Same conditions, fixed dmg 100 weapon,
aim and cast Marauder's escape on dummy:
4 hits with 175 damage each for the total of 700
Tooltip says 525 and 3 hits.
NOTE: you can sometimes proc 5 hits, but that doesn't repro consistently
FEEDBACK: Why Marauder's Escape is not auto-target? Is it a bug or intended?
If you jump or target lock, you can miss hit with marauder's escape.
BUG 3: Hindering Shot tooltip is not correct
Says that it gives 130 magnitude,
Actual: 140.
Suggestion: update tooltip
FEEDBACK: Add Strong Grasping Roots to Hidering Shot
Many times people asked for this change, and I wanna join that feedback.
1. We don't need 3 types of roots: "Strong", "Weak" and "Root" - I think this module is about simplification, right, so, my suggestion is to simplify it.
2. Hindering is only good in AoE rotation in new mod. Not due to Hindering shot being so good against multiple targets obviously, but due to its melee counterpart Hindering Strike (which btw is one of the best hitting powers for hybrid build atm).
So, making it proc Strong Roots, you contribute to the skill AoE capabilities, which seems pretty reasonable on Hunter path.
Also, please fix roots on Hindering Strike (they are still doing 0 damage).
just hopped to ptr today to check some stuff. Tested 2 powers, found 3 bugs :-)
BTW, about Ambush:
I think they fixed that interaction with Longstrider (or maybe I had something that was breaking that interaction).
Checked today: I can proc Ambush consistently when I cast LSS (checked with Vorpal and without Vorpal).
However, there are still some bad things about Ambush:
I can confirm that stealth on Ambush is broken by Split Shot and Aimed Shot Animation (weird, because other long cast powers, i.e. Snipe, Commanding Shot, Hawk Shot do not break it).
Second issue that you can proc Ambush twice on Rapid Volley, Hindering Strike, RoA, etc.
It would make more sense if it either multiprocced or procced once.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Rapid Strike deals 3184 Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Vorpal Weapon deals 159 Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Split the Sky gives 0 Lightning Damage to Target Dummy.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Vorpal Weapon gives 0 Arcane Damage to Target Dummy.
If you are within 30' or less with your ally, then you and ally get 500 CA, capped at 2500 - is laughable.
We are talking about stat values O(10000) here.
This power grants O(1000) = o(10000).
Nobody has use of that 2500 stats (less than 2500 in real runs, actually)
Nobody will rely on HR giving him 500 CA
Excuse me, but that's a BAD DESIGN to add (fixed) stats to passives:
this brings nothing to gameplay,
this loses utility while the classes progress through new modules.
Options that I see:
- return AotP back to mod 15 state (bad, but acceptable solution)
- change it to something generic but useful for teamplay: e.g. you and allies within 30' range deal 5% more damage.
- change it to something interesting: you lose 10% critical severity, but each hit on target(s) has 20% chance to add DoT to target 25-50 magnitude per second (not precise numbers, just idea) while at least 2 teammates are within 30' range.
FEEDBACK: Forestbond/Commander in chief cooldown reductions are not enough.
They look balanced on paper (aka 2 sec reduction from Commander is useful for ranged single target and roots can be procced quite often, giving ~1 sec cooldown each time -seems great, isn't it?)
However, it just doesn't 'feel' right in comparison to Warden's colldowns (we're talking about gameplay here, right? - it feels slow).
My suggestion is to raise it up to 7.5-10% on Forestbond and 3 sec on Commander (if it ends up bad, you can always reduce them back).
@noworries#8859 @rhroudadev#5641 @asterdahl
Guys, just a matter of interest: why does this thread has way less feedback from devs than CW/GWF thread?
Don't you think it's discouraging players and makes them to provide less feedback?
When I read posts by @asterdahl in GWF thread, i can understand what devs will be focused at and what they won't be focused at.
But here... we know only that there are tickets created for HR improvement, but what do those tickets contain except for Aimed Shot balancing? It's absolutely not clear! - How are we supposed to know that?
It scares people away, because they think that the class will remain in its current broken non-balanced state (no, i do not agree that something that has so many bugs is "overbalanced", unless "overbalanced" = "buggy, so it cannot be balanced over in proper way").
You give nice feedback in other threads!
Please, give us more feedback in this thread as well!
Please, let us know what you are going to fix/improve on HR and what you consider WAI and why!
To players who care about HR:
Please, do not ignore this thread, provide all feedback that you can.
Please, report all bugs that you see (if they improve performance, that may be followed up by nerf of other WAI thing and when the bug is fixed, performance will be worse).
Please, do not be shy to complain (aka QQ :-)) about bad features/powers: that QQ will let devs know that you do not enjoy these particular powers/features. QQ should be constructive though: explain why you do not enjoy this power/feat, suggest the solution - it really helps.