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Official M16: Warlock

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  • espasbadfistespasbadfist Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 39 Arc User
    Before the change to Fiery Bolt you could easily do Killing Flames (giving the curse) and then FB on the same target getting full AoE damage.
  • skuallpwskuallpw Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    nisckis said:

    I do not want Fiery Bolt to spread any curse if that means losing its full damage AoE, I do want a full damage AoE for fast group cleaning.

    thats a "warlock theme" , lose dmg for everything , gez , if the main class mechanic is so punishing something is wrong
  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    So you're telling me that an SW is supposed to fight close in the majority of time?

    Exactly. This is the ideal situation and the most efficient way to clear trash.

    It sounds like you do the majority of fighting solo with low level mobs.

    That's an odd assumption, but no.

    And you might be highly skewed since you do use Soulbinder on Live..something the majority of SW's do not do.

    I use Soulbinder on live only for single-target boss DPS. Hellbringer is far better at AoE.


    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • velahryn#7236 velahryn Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    Which is another problem...

    vorphied said:

    So you're telling me that an SW is supposed to fight close in the majority of time?

    Exactly. This is the ideal situation and the most efficient way to clear trash.

    It sounds like you do the majority of fighting solo with low level mobs.

    That's an odd assumption, but no.

    And you might be highly skewed since you do use Soulbinder on Live..something the majority of SW's do not do.

    I use Soulbinder on live only for single-target boss DPS. Hellbringer is far better at AoE.


    1. I can clear most trash before they ever get to me on Live. So no, its not the most efficient.

    2. Its not odd at all. That's what it sounds like you are describing.

    3. The SW is a range class by definition. It literally has one melee power and the majority range powers.

  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2019



    1. I can clear most trash before they ever get to me on Live. So no, its not the most efficient.

    2. Its not odd at all. That's what it sounds like you are describing.

    3. The SW is a range class by definition. It literally has one melee power and the majority range powers.

    1. To be blunt, the idea is to pull as much trash to you as possible and click as little as possible. On live this means running in to things, dropping a Pillar of Power, and maybe tapping a Curse Bite as you zoom away so you can mount up faster and keep moving. Fiery Bolt can miss one or more mobs from range, depending on how tightly packed they are, so it tends to be faster to charge in, drop a pillar, and that's about all it takes for nearly anything on live outside of an epic dungeon.

    2. Areas like Chult, Omu, Barovia...Castle Never...are all very easy to solo for a highly geared SW. This is why I question your assumption that I'm running around, doing what? Killing mobs at Helm's Hold? My opinions are based on completing all campaigns, zones, and "end-game" dungeons and trials.

    3. There is no ranged class in Neverwinter. Most of us have ranged powers, but the game persistently punishes players for attempting to maintain range. When party buffs mostly go the way of the dodo, players will still benefit from sticking close to each and to mobs for maximum DPS uptime, bonuses, and healing. Even solo content you gain the benefit of items like Shadowstalker rings and are able to more reliably hit larger numbers of enemies in close quarters.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • velahryn#7236 velahryn Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    vorphied said:



    1. To be blunt, the idea is to pull as much trash to you as possible and click as little as possible. On live this means running in to things, dropping a Pillar of Power, and maybe tapping a Curse Bite as you zoom away so you can mount up faster and keep moving. Fiery Bolt can miss one or more mobs from range, depending on how tightly packed they are, so it tends to be faster to charge in, drop a pillar, and that's about all it takes for nearly anything on live outside of an epic dungeon.

    2. Areas like Chult, Omu, Barovia...Castle Never...are all very easy to solo for a highly geared SW. This is why I question your assumption that I'm running around, doing what? Killing mobs at Helm's Hold? My opinions are based on completing all campaigns, zones, and "end-game" dungeons and trials.

    3. There is no ranged class in Neverwinter. Most of us have ranged powers, but the game persistently punishes players for attempting to maintain range. When party buffs mostly go the way of the dodo, players will still benefit from sticking close to each and to mobs for maximum DPS uptime, bonuses, and healing. Even solo content you gain the benefit of items like Shadowstalker rings and are able to more reliably hit larger numbers of enemies in close quarters.

    1. For easy dungeons, yeah. I'm not worried about trash mobs in easy dungeons. My build isn't built to clear trash mobs in easy dungeons because it literally takes zero thought in doing that.

    2. Sounds like you are. And my opinions are based on the same. I've done it all as well and just differ from what your build and philosophy is. I've seen your build. You certainly can squeeze more out.

    3. Wow. That's all I'll say about your opinion. Your idea of "range" is far different than mine.



  • frogwalloper#6494 frogwalloper Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Pesonally don't want another single target encounter. I play like a lot of people do - get all the bad guys together for a group hug then blast them all to hell. Ideally that would mean Hellfire Ring + Arms of Hadar/Harrowstorm + Fiery Bolt. Harrowstorm could take FB's place, but it's not at all the same. I don't know if it'll change a lot in Mod 16, but currently (still in Mod 15) it feels like more of a dot encounter whereas Fiery Bolt's a finisher as several others have pointed out. If it stays a single target encounter, I simply won't have as much use for it. Currently I keep it slotted even for single target battles. I swap out Arms of Hadar for KF, but I keep PoP and FB - which is still useful during those fights precisely because it's a powerful aoe.

    Anyway... some other ideas regarding Prince of Hell:

    Maybe Prince of Hell could grant some aoe properties to single target encounters like FB and KF as well as increase the damage or radius of things like HfR and Harrowstorm.

    Or maybe it could invert encounter powers: divvying up single target encounter damage amongst foes near the target, and concentrating aoe encounter damage on a single target.
  • mat44444mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    Hi

    Changes that I would like to see are;

    At wills functioning the same as encounters for applying curses – hence if they don’t have a curse consume or synergy they apply a curse. This would make the class feature all consuming curse redundant. Perhaps add a feat that when you do whatever you have a chance to gain a stack of soul investiture. I think this would open up more overall options for builds via class feats, and help builds centred upon puppets.

    As already mentioned here by someone else – I would like the curse synergy removed from blades of the vanquished armies and dread theft. Again I think having more different options to apply curses would open up build diversity and encourage exploration of options rather than everyone running the same thing.

    I dislike the next patches downgrading of the initial hit of hell fire ring, basically halving (from memory) the initial magnitude of this, perhaps the halving of the casting time will counteract this. But in preview at present, if I have not killed a trash mob (level 70-80) quickly I am dead anyway. And that’s an aspect I disliked atm (levelling 70 to 80), I always felt overrun and under pressure. I don’t have this feeling upon my DC doing the same content.

    I will repeat myself and say I like the new fiery bolt (single target) – although I can understand people’s reactions to wanting to keep it as the old version. My personal preference on test would be to use curse bite coupled with something to place curses. One suggestion would be to perhaps get rid of dread theft and make that the new single target (fiery bolt as currently on test) and reverting fiery bolt back to an aoe; kind of swapping one aoe for a different one to my mind at least. Hopefully that makes sense.

    At the end of the day I would ideally like the warlock to have roughly the same single target and area damage as the others classes. I am not really sure at the moment if its damage we lack or survivability for solo play – perhaps a little more could be done with vampiric embrace. I think it’s hard to say from one single point of view but I did die more times than I would like levelling the warlock upon test.

    Just some thoughts and have fun all
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    <b>Current DPS Encounter Powers:

    Shared:</b>
    Killing Flames (single target)
    Vampiric Embrace (single target)
    Dreadtheft (multi-target, dot, not AoE really)
    Hadar's Grasp (single target)
    Curse Bite (AoE)


    <b>Paragon:</b>
    Firey Bolt (Single Target)
    Inphernal Spheres (buff/single target sort of)
    Arms of Hadar (AoE)
    Blades of Vanquished Armies (AoE)
    Hellfire Ring (AoE, DoT)


    <font color=cyan>I suggest the following array of powers for DPS:

    Shared:</b>
    Killing Flames (single target)
    Vampiric Embrace (single target, heal)
    Arms of Hadar (AoE - fix targeting using Daring Shout, or Frontline Surge's targeting so it finally mostly works)
    Hadar's Grasp (single target)
    Curse Bite (AoE)

    This array gives the heal spec some solid dps and synergy for solo play, and also solves some of the problems the class experiences in the low end of the game dealing with groups.

    <b>Paragon:</b>
    Firey Bolt (Single Target)
    Blades of Vanquished Armies (AoE, Buff)
    Dreadtheft (make it a single target power that spreads curse to other targets hit, and buff its damage.)
    New Power: Hunger of Hadar (AoE, Zone, Added Effect: Slow, Summon Soul Puppet)
    Hellfire Ring (AoE, Zone, DoT)

    Hunger of Hadar is a 3rd level spell in the 5E PHB that is available to Warlocks.

    This array gives the DPS 5 single target options and 5 AoE options.</font>

    In regards to the Heal spec, to be honest I have nothing here really. I'd have to be able to run dungeons in parties to make more comment about its Paragon powers, but in broad concept they seem to be about right for doing a range of jobs in dungeons.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Not in Cyan or Red cause I don't know exactly what this would fall under.
    But the new Daily [Soul Pact] for Soulweaver is pretty harsh.
    Just goofing off with it in SH, I was actually able to kill my character using it.
    One cast, no Barkshield or Yojimbo, and no incoming healing. 100% to dead while standing in the SH Courtyard.
    I understand that that is not an ideal use case for it, but even if you move to the ideal case that seems excessive.
    Also to note, the self-damage procs can crit against you.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • cococycococy Member Posts: 6 Arc User

    Not in Cyan or Red cause I don't know exactly what this would fall under.
    But the new Daily [Soul Pact] for Soulweaver is pretty harsh.
    Just goofing off with it in SH, I was actually able to kill my character using it.
    One cast, no Barkshield or Yojimbo, and no incoming healing. 100% to dead while standing in the SH Courtyard.
    I understand that that is not an ideal use case for it, but even if you move to the ideal case that seems excessive.
    Also to note, the self-damage procs can crit against you.

    Same with warlock's bargain, I managed to kill myself without issues.
  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Figured out how to test heals when alone: Warlock's Bargain -> wait 5 secs for buff to time out -> proceed.
    Wraith's Shadow: The healing done by this skill sometimes only heals for the dmg dealt by the equipped weapon enchantment, and not the dmg dealt by the spell itself. (Ex: I was dealing 4024 dmg with Wraith's Shadow, Bronzewood proc-ed for 201 dmg, and I was healed for 207 dmg). Also, this spell either only heals 1 target at a time, or it stops healing after the first tick.
    Borrowed Time: Only heals for 1% max HP, regardless of Soul Sparks used.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Some inconsistencies with [Borrowed Time] and [Lingering Sustain]. (note: all these were tested on my own. they might behave differently on allies, but I kinda doubt it)

    Harrowstorm - procs both
    Shatter Spark - Procs Lingering Sustain, does not proc Borrowed Time
    Essence Drain (TAB skill) - does not proc Lingering Sustain
    Soul Reconstruction (at will) - procs Lingering Sustain, does not proc Borrowed Time
    Wraith's Shadow - procs Borrowed Time, does not proc Lingering Sustain.
    Vampiric Embrace - does not proc Lingering Sustain

    All I can test out on my own.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • makula666#7056 makula666 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Seriously you are going to remove the basic mechanics of the class which is Warlock's Curse (tab) something that was specific to them to create just what ... next wizard but with other spells
  • rysiek86rysiek86 Member Posts: 142 Arc User
    btfd said:

    I know that the developers' time is limited @noworries#8859 @asterdahl @finefineday#4940 and with the upcoming module's launch comes a huge load of work. It's just frustrating to see how class feedback threads like the one of barbarian or wizard for example seem to get way more responses from the devs' side than the warlock one. I believe you when you say that our feedback is being read and taken into account, still how do we know that our ideas are feasible or inadequate? For now warlock is the worst dps and worst heal of all whereas all classes should be almost equal. In my opinion this act of balancing can only happen if there is an active and regular dialogue between developers and players. Please, don't get me wrong, I don't want to offend any of the devs or deflate their work. I as a player am just concerned that warlocks will end up as underpowered or kind of unfinished and to be honest my experience tells me this may very well be the case thinking of the SW's past. Again, I don't mean to be rude, I just hope you can dispel my concerns in the best case or maybe reevaluate your priorities to achieve true balance between the classes.

    Funny thing :) I was up to create a simillar thread on Wizard Feedback.

    At the beginning there was a big attention focused on players suggestions and Developers responces, but day after day things have slowed down. Devs look like they limit they responses to minimum (probably because of tight timelines),people seem to write less feedbacks, because of the sucsessful cooling us down.

    The time is passing, the work is made, and one thing is sure. We will get a product of creators will, not the community desires.
    I get the filling that all feedback helps them to repair the mistakes, not to suggest the good solutions.

  • rysiek86rysiek86 Member Posts: 142 Arc User

    Seriously you are going to remove the basic mechanics of the class which is Warlock's Curse (tab) something that was specific to them to create just what ... next wizard but with other spells

    I would like to mention that Wizards are not happy with their changes as well. You say they removed the core mechanic of curse, same happened to wizards with Spell Mastery (also Tab).
    I would really like to know why the casters are so bullied in Neverwinter :D I would like to know who is responsible for these unfortunate changes.

  • isaacorion#1994 isaacorion Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    I'd settle for patch notes with a "We fixed this!" section and a "We've heard this is broken, we'll work on it" section.
    That way I can know what to re-test and what not to bother with. And what not to come to Forums to report as a bug/feedback if they're already aware of it.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    I'd settle for patch notes with a "We fixed this!" section and a "We've heard this is broken, we'll work on it" section.
    That way I can know what to re-test and what not to bother with. And what not to come to Forums to report as a bug/feedback if they're already aware of it.

    Exactly that way, otherwise we do read similar bugs ideas and asepcts again and again. Reading a short feedback to head towards other topics by thinking "Ok, recognized bug, idea or whatever, I do not have to pic it up again" would be a pretty big help and prevent us from maybe wasting time on wether Fiery Bolt should be set back or not to aoe :)
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    From lack of addressing core mechanics for warlock curses, synergy, spark questions, my guess is there will be no improvements or changes to implemented feats, scaling, curse or spark mechanics. If so it will be quite a while.

    Seems like main focus has been fixing broken aspects currently in place which is definitely needed for any real comprehensive testing to be continue. Untill additional damage channels for feats, powers, mechanic's, etc. WAI, any changes are just adjustments to limp by with untill basic implemented functionality reliable. Hopefully they aren't related to damage channel issues like magistrates patience and weapon enchants in live that have never properly addressed.

    As people have stated, a change log with more information regarding what has or has not been addressed would be great.

    Some adjustments to power magnitude, paragon for d2d, and fb aoe to single target changes have been made. I'm on team aoe for fb myself. Better than bova, infernal spheres, or arms since all are rather limited in range. Depending on how cb performs with dropped magnitude, curse consumption may still be the bread winner in aoe even with clunky mechanics for curse consumptions.

    But, I'm still confused as to why infernal spheres was even kept, let alone placed in the dps paragon.
    Out of all the powers to just flat drop that would be my first pick. Outside of very basic leveling just to have another encounter slotted, who even used it once any other power was unlocked on any paragon paths from mod 15 back. It seems like the playground version of bova.

    I could be quite wrong, but devs have been quite busy and have much of the game to constantly review from full core overhaul of almost every apsect if the game. I just want to see warlocks get as much attention as possible. If reworking from ground up, make it's as good as it gets.

    I think it looks visually impressive, and hope gameplay stays fun, fast paced, and immersive as live is now.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    It’s been indicated there will be patch notes this time.

    We already know some of the changes that are coming for us as noworries mentioned them.

    But I guess this will be a chance to see if the radio silence is because it’s being ignored if it’s not a bug.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • darkzod#9528 darkzod Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    Can it be that bronze wood does not mark with Warlock?
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    > @chimerax said:
    > The developers don't have to give you hour by hour updates, have some patience.

    A feedbackthreat in general has the options for a dialogue, wich is seen in many threats in a pretty intense form if you ever read any other threat than this. If dialogue only centers arround the same issues like "I can't curse and lack in corefunctions on my warlock" all I can do is just stop testing and stop argueing until basic stuff get addressed. You did not even understand my post, since I did not write every hour, which indeed is seen in many threats and not necessary in most cases. I wrote that one short feedback towards the essential problems would be from help.
  • mongol69mongol69 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    The dev coordination on feedback for mount/companion, content scaling and related bugs has been quite responsive. Though character atrribute complaints appear to be moot, as the devs mention they are not changing. Those all impact every class type. Maybey after they quell those issues, this thread will get more attention.
  • douglasopferbeckdouglasopferbeck Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    So it looks like the patch that just dropped changed killing flames to a higher magnitude, made fire blast multi target again while taking away the curse synergy making it an effective curse spreader and halving cast time of hellfire ring. I am sure there is a ton more, but I am liking what I am seeing so far! Hopefully some patch notes appear at some point...
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