Official M16: Warlock

1679111220

Comments

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User

    vorphied said:

    - Complaining about healing Warlock being a thing makes no sense to me. It’s like complaining that you got free cake with your dinner. Being able to fill two different roles is advantageous, and you can freely ignore either if you prefer.

    It's more like getting free cake with a cremation.
    It's just a strange fit is all when you've got a particular notion in your head of how a class should be - how it's always been. I'd just like to see it done well. You make a great point about the advantages.
    Hehe, I do understand the point about cake and cremation; if the two don't go together for someone, the effect will be jarring.

    I suppose the idea of the healing Warlock doesn't bother me because I'm accustomed to the notion from the previous Temptation SW build and don't see it as being thematically inconsistent that Warlock can use soul essence or what-have-you to sustain allies.

    Most of the complaints against Temptation/Soulweaver that I see have little to do with such issues and more to do with these players believing that the support option upstages the DPS option and is used by the dev team as justification not to worry about DPS performance ("They can always play as a healer/support, they're fine.")

    For my part, I'm less concerned about that because they actually had SW DPS in a pretty good spot in M15. I suspect that they were so slow to make meaningful changes (and even then didn't bother to revisit much after the first round of patches) because they knew they were about to knock it all down with M16.

    If anything, Warlock should probably be easier to balance going forward since there are now more changes that can be made to tune the performance of either the DPS or Healing spec without necessarily impacting the other.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User


    Arms of Hadar has long needed it's arc to be widened, more fan-like in it's radius, but I considered that a possible alteration for a third or fourth week patch if possible.

    While I generally don't use Arms of Hadar on Live, I don't recall having issues with targeting. On Preview, however, powers with a line or cone AoE seem to be somewhat broken and are prone to missing targets that they should hit. This problem was rather annoying on Preview since I used Arms of Hadar to apply Curse while leveling.

    Regardless what they end up doing with Fiery Bolt and other powers in the end, I really don't like the way the Curse mechanic works. Tabbing to use Warlock's Curse may not have been the smoothest method, but there was something to be said for rapid-fire Curse-on-demand. All-Consuming Curse feels terrible to use, and this thing with Curse Consume and Curse Synergy powers not being able to apply Lesser Curse is irritating to the point that some powers would be more desirable if they had no Consume or Synergy component.

    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead. Having a new heavy hitting encounter makes no sense for this purpose because you will use it and only one enemy will die so the other 3 or 4 remaining will go and kick you in the HAMSTER.

    As I have already suggested, I'll keep it as it is, and if the intention is spreading curses then modify Fiery Bolt so it does full area damage it target is cursed or spread curses if it's not cursed
  • mat44444
    mat44444 Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    nisckis said:

    Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead.

    Just curious - you are saying on preview you could nuke a mob with the aoe fiery bolt, magnitude 160 I think it was?

    Or are you saying you like the live version where u can easily 1 shot mobs with it

    Just trying to understand, and thanks in advance
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    nisckis said:

    Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead. Having a new heavy hitting encounter makes no sense for this purpose because you will use it and only one enemy will die so the other 3 or 4 remaining will go and kick you in the HAMSTER.

    As I have already suggested, I'll keep it as it is, and if the intention is spreading curses then modify Fiery Bolt so it does full area damage it target is cursed or spread curses if it's not cursed

    Well, you don't use the new Fiery Bolt in AoE, really. Hellfire Ring takes its place, is a stronger power, and already has no Curse Synergy to screw things up. You also don't want to count on being able to kite enemies, because it takes forever. Even without the lifesteal stat, groups of equivalent-rating enemies shouldn't be killing us unless we aren't playing well. I'd argue that it's even more important to be efficient and keep your enemies close and bunched together since cooldowns are longer and dailies much fewer and far between.

    If Killing Flames is buffed to be a sufficiently strong power and if other tweaks are made as needed to make single-target DPS competitive, I don't care if noworries reverts Fiery Bolt, but I don't see the need to put it back. If new Warlocks are truly feeling its lack in AoE for leveling, maybe that means that their alternative powers are too undertuned.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    vorphied said:

    nisckis said:

    Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead. Having a new heavy hitting encounter makes no sense for this purpose because you will use it and only one enemy will die so the other 3 or 4 remaining will go and kick you in the HAMSTER.

    As I have already suggested, I'll keep it as it is, and if the intention is spreading curses then modify Fiery Bolt so it does full area damage it target is cursed or spread curses if it's not cursed

    Well, you don't use the new Fiery Bolt in AoE, really. Hellfire Ring takes its place, is a stronger power, and already has no Curse Synergy to screw things up. You also don't want to count on being able to kite enemies, because it takes forever. Even without the lifesteal stat, groups of equivalent-rating enemies shouldn't be killing us unless we aren't playing well. I'd argue that it's even more important to be efficient and keep your enemies close and bunched together since cooldowns are longer and dailies much fewer and far between.

    If Killing Flames is buffed to be a sufficiently strong power and if other tweaks are made as needed to make single-target DPS competitive, I don't care if noworries reverts Fiery Bolt, but I don't see the need to put it back. If new Warlocks are truly feeling its lack in AoE for leveling, maybe that means that their alternative powers are too undertuned.
    Hellfire ring takes a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds, so no, it's not a substitute for original AoE Fiery Bolt which has a 8.5 seconds cooldown. You can't keep waiting that much time between groups of enemies.

    Hellfire ring only applies curses on first tick so anything entering at a later time is not cursed
    Hellfire ring doesn't refresh curses if you consume the curses
    Hellfire ring has a too long cooldown, it last 8 seconds and has a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    nisckis said:

    vorphied said:

    nisckis said:

    Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead. Having a new heavy hitting encounter makes no sense for this purpose because you will use it and only one enemy will die so the other 3 or 4 remaining will go and kick you in the HAMSTER.

    As I have already suggested, I'll keep it as it is, and if the intention is spreading curses then modify Fiery Bolt so it does full area damage it target is cursed or spread curses if it's not cursed

    Well, you don't use the new Fiery Bolt in AoE, really. Hellfire Ring takes its place, is a stronger power, and already has no Curse Synergy to screw things up. You also don't want to count on being able to kite enemies, because it takes forever. Even without the lifesteal stat, groups of equivalent-rating enemies shouldn't be killing us unless we aren't playing well. I'd argue that it's even more important to be efficient and keep your enemies close and bunched together since cooldowns are longer and dailies much fewer and far between.

    If Killing Flames is buffed to be a sufficiently strong power and if other tweaks are made as needed to make single-target DPS competitive, I don't care if noworries reverts Fiery Bolt, but I don't see the need to put it back. If new Warlocks are truly feeling its lack in AoE for leveling, maybe that means that their alternative powers are too undertuned.
    Hellfire ring takes a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds, so no, it's not a substitute for original AoE Fiery Bolt which has a 8.5 seconds cooldown. You can't keep waiting that much time between groups of enemies.

    Hellfire ring only applies curses on first tick so anything entering at a later time is not cursed
    Hellfire ring doesn't refresh curses if you consume the curses
    Hellfire ring has a too long cooldown, it last 8 seconds and has a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds
    No...you're missing the fact the noworries has stated that a CD reduction (and corresponding damage adjustment) is coming for Hellfire Ring. He's cutting its CD in half.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • sprat140#9415
    sprat140#9415 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    After reviewing the class mechanics on the soulweaver track, I think some can be changed so that they have some usability.

    First, Prince of Hell as mentioned in this thread is lackluster at best. Here are my suggestions for alternatives to fix them.

    1. On daily use, enemies within x feet are receive mark of the inferno (or hell, or the underworld). Allies who attack enemies with the mark of the inferno heal 1% of damage dealt. Duration 10ish seconds. (adjustable for balancing purposes obviously)

    Alternatively, the same effect can performed on curse consume.

    2. For each soul spark consumed player receives 1-2% AP

    3. On first cast daily use the player receives 3-6 soul sparks

    4. Increase crit severity of heals by 15%

    5. Increase heals by 2.5% and damage by 2.5%

    Just thoughts. I feel these would provide better utility. They can be scaled to whatever needs balancing.
  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    OK, just posted about Hellbringer doing Acquisitions Incorporated at page 7, bellow the test with the Souleaver path (https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/comment/13085057/#Comment_13085057)

    Spoiler: Hellbringer is not advised for doing dailies as of today, too many bugs and very little AoE burst.
  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    mat44444 said:

    nisckis said:

    Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead.

    Just curious - you are saying on preview you could nuke a mob with the aoe fiery bolt, magnitude 160 I think it was?

    Or are you saying you like the live version where u can easily 1 shot mobs with it

    Just trying to understand, and thanks in advance
    Hi @mat44444, yes I'm saying that for doing daily missions with the original Fiery Bolt (the one we had one week ago), I could curse one enemy from the group hit it with Firey Bolt and the whole group of enemies was nuked. Sometimes one of them doesn't die but you can just kill it using the remaining encounters.
  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    vorphied said:

    nisckis said:

    vorphied said:

    nisckis said:

    Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead. Having a new heavy hitting encounter makes no sense for this purpose because you will use it and only one enemy will die so the other 3 or 4 remaining will go and kick you in the HAMSTER.

    As I have already suggested, I'll keep it as it is, and if the intention is spreading curses then modify Fiery Bolt so it does full area damage it target is cursed or spread curses if it's not cursed

    Well, you don't use the new Fiery Bolt in AoE, really. Hellfire Ring takes its place, is a stronger power, and already has no Curse Synergy to screw things up. You also don't want to count on being able to kite enemies, because it takes forever. Even without the lifesteal stat, groups of equivalent-rating enemies shouldn't be killing us unless we aren't playing well. I'd argue that it's even more important to be efficient and keep your enemies close and bunched together since cooldowns are longer and dailies much fewer and far between.

    If Killing Flames is buffed to be a sufficiently strong power and if other tweaks are made as needed to make single-target DPS competitive, I don't care if noworries reverts Fiery Bolt, but I don't see the need to put it back. If new Warlocks are truly feeling its lack in AoE for leveling, maybe that means that their alternative powers are too undertuned.
    Hellfire ring takes a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds, so no, it's not a substitute for original AoE Fiery Bolt which has a 8.5 seconds cooldown. You can't keep waiting that much time between groups of enemies.

    Hellfire ring only applies curses on first tick so anything entering at a later time is not cursed
    Hellfire ring doesn't refresh curses if you consume the curses
    Hellfire ring has a too long cooldown, it last 8 seconds and has a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds
    No...you're missing the fact the noworries has stated that a CD reduction (and corresponding damage adjustment) is coming for Hellfire Ring. He's cutting its CD in half.
    That means Hellfire Ring will be 10.6 (with an unknown magnitude) vs Fiery Bolt 8.5, so Fiery Bolt still is more reusable and it's not a damage in floor so enemies can't "dodge" it.
  • feanor#5283
    feanor#5283 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Greetings!
    I have spent last couple of hours testing last changes on preview server and I noticed that everything is even worth that I thought in the very beginning.
    (Link to screenshot: https://ibb.co/tLkcCct)
    Me and my CW friend made a run of simple Tuern dungeon.
    On the screenshot above you can see that mage overDPSed me almost x2.
    Please take into consideration that my IL is much bigger (15.4 vs 14.0).
    @noworries#8859 do you still think that SW is class which should be nerfed MORE AND MORE?
    As for me it completely doesn't make sense to continue playing SW.
    And if few days ago I was just upset with current changes now I'm really angry.
    I cannot see future of SW class with current directions from Developers side.

    All hail Cryptic!
    Have a nice day! ^^
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    > @nisckis said:
    > Personally I do like Fiery Bolt like it has always been, the reason for it is the fact that I do heavily use it for daily and weekly missions. You curse one enemy, Fiery Bolt it and most of the times the full pool is dead. Having a new heavy hitting encounter makes no sense for this purpose because you will use it and only one enemy will die so the other 3 or 4 remaining will go and kick you in the HAMSTER.
    >
    > As I have already suggested, I'll keep it as it is, and if the intention is spreading curses then modify Fiery Bolt so it does full area damage it target is cursed or spread curses if it's not cursed
    >
    >
    > Well, you don't use the new Fiery Bolt in AoE, really. Hellfire Ring takes its place, is a stronger power, and already has no Curse Synergy to screw things up. You also don't want to count on being able to kite enemies, because it takes forever. Even without the lifesteal stat, groups of equivalent-rating enemies shouldn't be killing us unless we aren't playing well. I'd argue that it's even more important to be efficient and keep your enemies close and bunched together since cooldowns are longer and dailies much fewer and far between.
    >
    > If Killing Flames is buffed to be a sufficiently strong power and if other tweaks are made as needed to make single-target DPS competitive, I don't care if noworries reverts Fiery Bolt, but I don't see the need to put it back. If new Warlocks are truly feeling its lack in AoE for leveling, maybe that means that their alternative powers are too undertuned.
    >
    > Hellfire ring takes a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds, so no, it's not a substitute for original AoE Fiery Bolt which has a 8.5 seconds cooldown. You can't keep waiting that much time between groups of enemies.
    >
    > Hellfire ring only applies curses on first tick so anything entering at a later time is not cursed
    > Hellfire ring doesn't refresh curses if you consume the curses
    > Hellfire ring has a too long cooldown, it last 8 seconds and has a massive cooldown of 21.2 seconds
    >
    >
    > No...you're missing the fact the noworries has stated that a CD reduction (and corresponding damage adjustment) is coming for Hellfire Ring. He's cutting its CD in half.
    >
    > That means Hellfire Ring will be 10.6 (with an unknown magnitude) vs Fiery Bolt 8.5, so Fiery Bolt still is more reusable and it's not a damage in floor so enemies can't "dodge" it.

    The magnitude is not unknown; he posted on one of these pages, and I’m too lazy to find it on my phone.

    Also remember...

    - Fiery Bolt, by default, does less damage to enemies around the primary target unless Curse Synergy is in play

    - Hellfire Ring has both an initial potency and a DoT field. It also activates faster, has no travel time, and is a splat AoE, making targeting more precise.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    vorphied said:


    The magnitude is not unknown; he posted on one of these pages, and I’m too lazy to find it on my phone.



    Also remember...



    - Fiery Bolt, by default, does less damage to enemies around the primary target unless Curse Synergy is in play



    - Hellfire Ring has both an initial potency and a DoT field. It also activates faster, has no travel time, and is a splat AoE, making targeting more precise.

    Fiery Bolt is meant to be used with the curse synergy, that's the reason it's so good as it is in live server. If someone is using it without cursing beforehand then it's just a wasted encounter.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I’ve been leveling a low geared Sentinel Barb and it makes my well geared SW a joke.
    The Barb is giving game performance nearly identical to live for the same character in terms of difficulty clearing mobs, which likely means it still needs a tune down (being its the tank spec), while my SW struggled through the same content in comparison.

    As soon as you go to a scaled zone it just becomes worse for the SW. On live a single at-will kills a minion in the Basement, any AoE clears the whole mob. The level 80 full spy and mountain gear has to multi-Attack to clear the same mobs - that’s not fun, that’s annoying when you are forced to go back and do low level zones and your character gets nerfed to hell.

    So @noworries#8859 as I play Paladin and Barbarian more I’m just getting more worried about my Warlock.

    The lack of response to the thread does nothing to assuage the worries.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • samfandango#1314
    samfandango#1314 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I'll admit happily that live FB has been a part of one of my rotations for a long time, so I understand where nisckis is coming from. I have loved it deeply. That being said, for AoE in mod 15 I adopted the PoP>Curse Bite>Harrowstorm>Curse Bite rotation, which also works very nicely.

    The intention of the devs at the moment is to create an environment where there are fewer wrong choices for the player. On a pure DPS class this can be remedied with an AoE paragon and a single target paragon setup, each with a couple of usable rotations. However, where a class has only one paragon for DPS, the ability to create this variety of rotations for both AoE and single target is somewhat hampered (this is not an argument for not having a healing spec, I like the flexibility of having a healing spec).

    So I see that as leaving us with the AoE options of:

    1) the nuke'em rotation: at will/HfR (potentially reduced CD) cursing, FB (mod 15 version), an at will or other encounter to mop up, soul scorch to reduce CDs as and when.

    or

    2) the "no ACC" rotation: HfR (potentially reduced CD), CB, FB (mod15)/AoH (with a wider arc)/BoVA (without synergy), CB, soul scorch to reduce CDs as and when.

    Options at least.

    Single target as I can see at the moment would probably still revolve around BoH, HG and KF. Single target does seem to be lacking in any other real options, (although I appreciate noworries attempt to open that up with FB) as well as current options not really hitting hard enough at this current state. IS, not likely. DT, heck no. Anyone else out there got ideas for a second option for single target rotation?

    All of these revolve around our curse mechanic though. So ultimately, whatever we think of powers independently of one another, I'm sure we all agree that the curse mechanic needs to be on point above all else.
  • isaacorion#1994
    isaacorion#1994 Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Took some time to go all Wicked Warlock of the West on Bolgera alone on Preview.
    Fiery Bolt change to single target: This I actually like a lot now. I was using Killing Flames, Fiery Bolt, and Hellfire Ring. After the first hunt, I was actually able to remove [All Consuming Curse] and slot in [Flames of Empowerment] since with that setup you can maintain Lesser Curse indefinitely. Note, I wasn't able to just MASH ALL THE BUTTONS! with my Encounters, it was more Encounter - atwill x3 - Encounter - repeat. Which I think is actually good since I was needing those at-wills to build up Soul Sparks and FoE. The single target skillset feels a lot more complete with Killing Flames, Fiery Bolt, Soul Scorch (TAB) for CDR with the feat, and then either Hellfire Ring or Hadar's Grasp (if running Risky Investment and if they fix the Curse Consume to spawn a puppet). What this does for the AoE setup, I can't say currently. Haven't tried much there.
    Don't know if these are bugs per se, but gonna list em anyways:
    Brood of Hadar: Procs Rune of Aggression once cast, and then re-procs the Rune each time a Broodling bites.
    Gates of Hell: Procs Rune of Aggression once cast, then re-procs it with each enemy hit.
    Accursed Souls: Rune of Aggression proc seems to override the cast animation, basically letting you cancel that 2 sec cast time (this one I'm going to re-test).
    Flames of Phlegetos: All other dailies created a orange ring of Rune of Aggression, Flames was creating a green colored ring
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • tenetomb
    tenetomb Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 113 Arc User

    The only reason I've suggested FB as an AoE without Curse Synergy is simply the leveling process. Yes, I get that we spend a lot more time at endgame than we do leveling, but my experience with leveling a brand new Warlock during this preview session has been horrendous. There are no early stage encounters that spread lesser curse, forcing you to take ACC. This is clunky and painful as it stands at the moment. Running round enemies and getting repeatedly killed just trying to apply a curse is utterly disheartening.

    You made a really good point here. But we can't balance end game based on leveling.
    I think we need more options. And a viable one i can easily see is Dreadtheft without it's Curse Synergy. It won't be used as a dps power at higher level but, while leveling, it can be used as one in a first time, and anyway, it'd be good to apply curses.

    @nisckis If you were using FB in the first week of preview, you were already doing it wrong. The problem of FB, compared to HfR, is that its design forces you to either choose a power without synergy, that applies curses or a power with a synergy that has a damage burst (but requires you to apply curses before).

    The first choice is obviously dumb because we already have powers that apply curses better (Arms and HfR) and the second is not better. If FB damage was buffed, and it kept its synergy, then, it wouldn't be applying curse anymore !

    HfR deals both of these choices. Only "downside" : you have to target it well to inflict a maximum of damage.
    Its initial hit is enough to maintain lesser curse and then, it continues to hit for 8s. Which means, if cooldown gets reduced, with only 1 tab (18 sparks), you can have HfR up 100% of the time.
  • isaacorion#1994
    isaacorion#1994 Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    Disregard my earlier report that Rune of Aggression would enable you to skip Accursed Souls 2 sec cast time. Even though you do the rune activate animation instead of the rest of Accursed Souls animation, you can't move during it. You can freely move around when Rune procs during Broodling bite swarm.
    Cowl of the Royal Reserve (head armor purchased with AD at Yawning Portal) has 2 flaws in my opinion:
    1 - It removes your character's face completely. It's just a blank hole with eyes and a mouth.
    2 - Elven ears poke through the cowl. (Not really a bug, but a pet peeve of mine)

    The cowl was tested on a Male Moon Elf char.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • tenetomb
    tenetomb Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I thought again about BoVA losing its Curse Synergy (as it has been mentionned before).
    If it's not possible for you, devs, (because, in the end, i ask myself if it would be broken in AoE) i have an other suggestion :

    At the moment, BoVA deals 11 hits and 13 with synergy activated.

    Make it deal 10 base hits and 15 with synergy activated, for 20 magnitude on each hit.

    This power is really powerful as it doesn't consume curse and generates lots of sparks.
    Enhancing it would buff our single target damage, which is really needed.


    The best setup i found so far is EB as at-will, KF, FB and BoVA. With Dust to dust and Flames of empowerment as class features. No curse consume, 5% bonus damage up 100% of the time.
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    It is from no discussion that a high damage encounter, like Fiery Bolt actually is, can push the damage significant combined with a fast cooldownreduction.
    As it looks like now, despite several posts from player comparing several classes, if stripped to the bone or equipped with top gear or just running beside another dps on a far lower Itemlevel, the class seems to struggle compaerd to others, another way to judge actual results could be the conclusion warlock-player are too dumb and untalented in the sum.
    Actually I think gameplay itself is not that bad at all, especially if we could get some more tools to improve Curse-application and imporve some other aspects.
    Maybe we should go on concentrate on the gameexperience and synergies to make the class the best we can achieve, focussing on balancing powers, synergies, point at bugs (we allready did), to give feats, powers and classfeature the best diversity we can achieve in the end and let mod 16 happen.
    We allready shared a lot of good ideas, maybe worth to take a look at and give it a try at best, there is not much to loose anyway, noworries. @noworries#8859


    This is where the class comes from.
    Endless discussion in the past gave this class a spot as a second choice buffer in a "meta-group" at best, after a significant period of being "no choice".
    The class was never top-dps, beside abusing "mega-bugs" (Morderous flame, puppet) and only existed as a 2. choice dps, relying to a significant ammount on bugs during the very last episodes of this game, considering "Brood" buffing your effectiveness during several bossencounter inside tong, codg, CR up to 600%.
    The niche setup running a Soulbinder as a dps, dealing 90% of your dps with Soulscorch and associated Capstone, was a setup from "rare" choice, looking at the average player with endgear, you never saw that much player (far<1%) doing so.
    But trying to get a step inside groups thatlike, you could hardly stand against a good performing Striker like GF, GWF or Hunter anyway, since DOT´s in general are not your "friend" when burst can overcome every hdps DOT in the end.
    We had worst synergies with most weaponenchants due DOT damage. We had no stand in PVP all of the time (to some degree due to DOT´s). We never had an option to fill the role of a leader (not due to DOT´s :) ), if disliked or not.
    Actually having an option to play as leader we should try to make the role viable in mod 16.
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    > @nisckis said:
    > The magnitude is not unknown; he posted on one of these pages, and I’m too lazy to find it on my phone.
    >
    >
    >
    > Also remember...
    >
    >
    >
    > - Fiery Bolt, by default, does less damage to enemies around the primary target unless Curse Synergy is in play
    >
    >
    >
    > - Hellfire Ring has both an initial potency and a DoT field. It also activates faster, has no travel time, and is a splat AoE, making targeting more precise.
    >
    > Fiery Bolt is meant to be used with the curse synergy, that's the reason it's so good as it is in live server. If someone is using it without cursing beforehand then it's just a wasted encounter.

    I’m not sure I’m getting my point across.

    On Preview you have few options for quickly and easily cursing multiple targets, and AoE Fiery Bolt unfortunately is not one of them precisely because of its Synergy. It’s not like on live, where ACC causes you to spread Lesser Curse with almost everything.

    Hellfire Ring requires no setup for maximum potency, has the other advantages I outlined, and is in itself a setup for Curse Bite. It’s simply a better AoE power even its CD ends up being a couple of seconds longer than FB’s after it’s updated.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • velahryn#7236
    velahryn#7236 Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    vorphied said:



    Hellfire Ring requires no setup for maximum potency, has the other advantages I outlined, and is in itself a setup for Curse Bite. It’s simply a better AoE power even its CD ends up being a couple of seconds longer than FB’s after it’s updated.

    And is one of the most clunkiest, poorly executed powers...ACC on live spreads curse on crit hits....which is much harder to do on Preview then it is live.

    The idea that Hellfire Ring should replace fiery bolt is just laughable IMO.
  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User

    vorphied said:



    Hellfire Ring requires no setup for maximum potency, has the other advantages I outlined, and is in itself a setup for Curse Bite. It’s simply a better AoE power even its CD ends up being a couple of seconds longer than FB’s after it’s updated.

    And is one of the most clunkiest, poorly executed powers...ACC on live spreads curse on crit hits....which is much harder to do on Preview then it is live.

    The idea that Hellfire Ring should replace fiery bolt is just laughable IMO.
    I assume you're talking about Curse Bite being clunky and poorly executed, and I would disagree except that applying Curse is currently a chore on Preview. Curse Bite is still very powerful, and Hellfire Ring makes it much easier to use.

    I don't get the resistance to using Hellfire Ring as a replacement for AoE FB when the patch hits to halve its cooldown. Perhaps explain what it is about Fiery Bolt that you enjoy so much that Hellfire Ring won't be able to do?
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • isaacorion#1994
    isaacorion#1994 Member Posts: 106 Arc User



    And is one of the most clunkiest, poorly executed powers...ACC on live spreads curse on crit hits....which is much harder to do on Preview then it is live.

    The idea that Hellfire Ring should replace fiery bolt is just laughable IMO.

    I've had no issues with Hellfire Ring really. It's not really a clunky, difficult to cast skill in my experience. You either lob it out at the mob group to Curse them before they run at you (forsaking the DoT ground fire portion), or you aggro the enemies with an at-will, then once they get close cast it right at yourself.

    I might be skewed slightly since I was Soulbinder on Live and never had Pillar of Power before, but I've really enjoyed using Hellfire Ring. (If it matters any, I use the setting where you only need 1 button press to cast Hellfire Ring. Hold to aim, release to cast. None of that tap once to aim, tap second to cast)

    Although, I am curious how it's going to turn out after the next patch where I think noworries's updates to it will be applied.
    Warlock: Don't want to let you down but I am hell bound. - Imagine Dragons
    Cleric: You can be an angel of mercy or give in to hate. - Shinedown
    Wizard: The more the dark consumes me, I pretend I'm burning bright. - Shinedown
    Barbarian: Am I beautiful... as I tear you to pieces? - In This Moment
  • velahryn#7236
    velahryn#7236 Member Posts: 31 Arc User



    And is one of the most clunkiest, poorly executed powers...ACC on live spreads curse on crit hits....which is much harder to do on Preview then it is live.

    The idea that Hellfire Ring should replace fiery bolt is just laughable IMO.

    I've had no issues with Hellfire Ring really. It's not really a clunky, difficult to cast skill in my experience. You either lob it out at the mob group to Curse them before they run at you (forsaking the DoT ground fire portion), or you aggro the enemies with an at-will, then once they get close cast it right at yourself.

    I might be skewed slightly since I was Soulbinder on Live and never had Pillar of Power before, but I've really enjoyed using Hellfire Ring. (If it matters any, I use the setting where you only need 1 button press to cast Hellfire Ring. Hold to aim, release to cast. None of that tap once to aim, tap second to cast)

    Although, I am curious how it's going to turn out after the next patch where I think noworries's updates to it will be applied.
    Compared to what we had before, its very clunky. Lob it out? You miss half the time or mobs move. Aggro enemies? The casting is stopped with any type of hit to you...not to mention the fact that as an SW, you aren't really supposed to be pulling aggro with mobs. I don't want to have to pull aggro to get a power to function properly.

    On live I could apply Warlocks Curse without having to place some ring 30m away, send my fiery bolt out and its smooth as can be. Its spreads Lesser curse and I can hit them with curse Bites once or twice. It was fluid. Its not easy with a larger fov to target the ring

    You could easily make it smoother by having it act like PoP but instead of appearing under you, it appear underneath the target you select by your cursor, not a ring you have to place.

    Or change fiery bolt back to AoE....Something the majority in this thread want anyway.





  • vorphied
    vorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited March 2019



    And is one of the most clunkiest, poorly executed powers...ACC on live spreads curse on crit hits....which is much harder to do on Preview then it is live.

    The idea that Hellfire Ring should replace fiery bolt is just laughable IMO.

    I've had no issues with Hellfire Ring really. It's not really a clunky, difficult to cast skill in my experience. You either lob it out at the mob group to Curse them before they run at you (forsaking the DoT ground fire portion), or you aggro the enemies with an at-will, then once they get close cast it right at yourself.

    I might be skewed slightly since I was Soulbinder on Live and never had Pillar of Power before, but I've really enjoyed using Hellfire Ring. (If it matters any, I use the setting where you only need 1 button press to cast Hellfire Ring. Hold to aim, release to cast. None of that tap once to aim, tap second to cast)

    Although, I am curious how it's going to turn out after the next patch where I think noworries's updates to it will be applied.
    Compared to what we had before, its very clunky. Lob it out? You miss half the time or mobs move. Aggro enemies? The casting is stopped with any type of hit to you...not to mention the fact that as an SW, you aren't really supposed to be pulling aggro with mobs. I don't want to have to pull aggro to get a power to function properly.

    On live I could apply Warlocks Curse without having to place some ring 30m away, send my fiery bolt out and its smooth as can be. Its spreads Lesser curse and I can hit them with curse Bites once or twice. It was fluid. Its not easy with a larger fov to target the ring

    You could easily make it smoother by having it act like PoP but instead of appearing under you, it appear underneath the target you select by your cursor, not a ring you have to place.

    Or change fiery bolt back to AoE....Something the majority in this thread want anyway.





    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the problem I'm seeing here is that you're attempting to fight from range, and the game still rewards you for fighting at close range. Hellfire Ring isn't for dropping from halfway across the screen; you gather enemies to yourself and maximize your efficiency. I only drop Hellfire Ring from range if the targets are weak enough that a single Ring+Bite combo will take care of them all.

    I'm not sure where you're experiencing that your casting is stopped by getting hit. Not only is the cast virtually instantaneous, interruption shouldn't be occurring.

    Of course, keep in mind that changing Fiery Bolt back to AoE won't solve the issue you just described since we have neither Warlock's Curse to lead with nor a version of ACC that allows Fiery Bolt to apply Lesser Curse.
    Sacrilege - Warlock
    Contagion - Cleric
    Testament - Wizard
    Pestilence - Ranger
    Dominion - Paladin

    NIGHTSWATCH

  • velahryn#7236
    velahryn#7236 Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    vorphied said:



    And is one of the most clunkiest, poorly executed powers...ACC on live spreads curse on crit hits....which is much harder to do on Preview then it is live.

    The idea that Hellfire Ring should replace fiery bolt is just laughable IMO.

    I've had no issues with Hellfire Ring really. It's not really a clunky, difficult to cast skill in my experience. You either lob it out at the mob group to Curse them before they run at you (forsaking the DoT ground fire portion), or you aggro the enemies with an at-will, then once they get close cast it right at yourself.

    I might be skewed slightly since I was Soulbinder on Live and never had Pillar of Power before, but I've really enjoyed using Hellfire Ring. (If it matters any, I use the setting where you only need 1 button press to cast Hellfire Ring. Hold to aim, release to cast. None of that tap once to aim, tap second to cast)

    Although, I am curious how it's going to turn out after the next patch where I think noworries's updates to it will be applied.
    Compared to what we had before, its very clunky. Lob it out? You miss half the time or mobs move. Aggro enemies? The casting is stopped with any type of hit to you...not to mention the fact that as an SW, you aren't really supposed to be pulling aggro with mobs. I don't want to have to pull aggro to get a power to function properly.

    On live I could apply Warlocks Curse without having to place some ring 30m away, send my fiery bolt out and its smooth as can be. Its spreads Lesser curse and I can hit them with curse Bites once or twice. It was fluid. Its not easy with a larger fov to target the ring

    You could easily make it smoother by having it act like PoP but instead of appearing under you, it appear underneath the target you select by your cursor, not a ring you have to place.

    Or change fiery bolt back to AoE....Something the majority in this thread want anyway.





    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the problem I'm seeing here is that you're attempting to fight from range, and the game still rewards you for fighting at close range. Hellfire Ring isn't for dropping from halfway across the screen; you gather enemies to yourself and maximize your efficiency. I only drop Hellfire Ring from range if the targets are weak enough that a single Ring+Bite combo will take care of them all.

    I'm not sure where you're experiencing that your casting is stopped by getting hit. Not only is the cast virtually instantaneous, interruption shouldn't be occurring.

    Of course, keep in mind that changing Fiery Bolt back to AoE won't solve the issue you just described since we have neither Warlock's Curse to lead with nor a version of ACC that allows Fiery Bolt to apply Lesser Curse.

    Fighting from range? The range that you lose sight of the ring is less than the range you could apply Warlocks Curse. It also completely disappears if the mob is above you at any type of range (on a hill, stairs, etc...). You can't see it at all. So you're telling me that an SW is supposed to fight close in the majority of time?

    I experience it where any type of mob quickly moves in on you. Chult, Omu, etc...

    It sounds like you do the majority of fighting solo with low level mobs.

    And you might be highly skewed since you do use Soulbinder on Live..something the majority of SW's do not do.
    vorphied said:



    Of course, keep in mind that changing Fiery Bolt back to AoE won't solve the issue you just described since we have neither Warlock's Curse to lead with nor a version of ACC that allows Fiery Bolt to apply Lesser Curse.

    Which is something the majority of people in this thread disagree with as well.


  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User
    I do not want Fiery Bolt to spread any curse if that means losing its full damage AoE, I do want a full damage AoE for fast group cleaning.