Like all other player pointed out earlier, Aimed shot is pretty lack luster at the moment. Having only magnitude of 100 with high cast time of 1.6sec, its simply not worth to use it when u can just use a much more higher dps and nimble at-will like rapid shot. Aimed shot should be a burst at-will with high risk high return as its core. If u can pull it off with a long cast time, u will be rewarded.
Usually when player is about to get hit during an aimed shot cast time, they will either dodge and cancel the aimed shot resulting with no shot is fired (zero dps ) or sacrifice their hit point and take the damage in exchange. Its just sad that after all this stunt, the player only produce a damage that are so underwhelming that a simple rapid shot could do better without the need of equivalent hassle. That is how I feel when I use aimed shot power and I believe the other player feel the same as well.
My suggestion as a solution to this is to give aimed shot a better chance to crit and a magnitude of 120. A +10% to crit as its feature isn't too much to ask given the time player need to sacrifice in order to successfully pull it off. Besides, since u need to aim with the shot that long, it would only make sense that u'll have a higher chance to crit.
Another simple alternative would be giving it a flat increase in magnitude to 180. However, simple as it may, it just create a viability race between rapid shot and aimed shot with a risk of overbuffing the power. I wouldn't recommend it except that u are on a tight schedule.
Aimed Shot: - Increase base damage. - Bonus Magnitude if mob is also targetting you. Rapid Shot: - +1% run speed per hit for 10 seconds. - Stacks up to 7 or 10 times. - The old Archery Feat tree was balanced on +40% cooldown reduction. Without it and without recovery, Archery is punished twice. With Marauder's Escape having a long cooldown. Archers need something to increase our speed.
Also the old Aimed Shot by Amenar reduces our Encounter cooldown per hit. And in addition the old mainhand give a bonus speed buff per Aimed Shot. Those were done to increase viability of Aimed Shot. Without those bonuses, there has to be something to compensate for its long cast time and vulnerability frames. Hence the suggestions.
If Rapid Shot is our go-to At-will. Aimed Shot is our off-build, high risk/ high reward At-will.
Bug - cordon of arrows often fails to trigger even when shot directly at an enemy and if applied ahead of time to an area it wont trigger when enemies walk over its circle
How about we talk about roots? And the fact that there are three types of roots. When there should only be one - roots. All of the powers that do so should apply the same roots. Which would then make thorned roots a viable option rather than just fun for flavor. Now is the time to fix these things.
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arcticblitzMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 126Arc User
Kinda feel like we are not getting as much love /attention as the other classes
Blitzy : PVE only Barbarian
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Well, we got unlucky in our dev assignment. So, yeah, we're pretty much back burnered.
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Took my 15K lvl 70 combat HR into Nobleman extraction (was 15K before, all my pet equipment was redundant, had a couple of blue items and runestones so didn't gain any IL). I was looking for a level 70 mission so the scaling was minimised. I found the Zeline and Rakhez encounter utterly impossible. In the end I had to use a scroll to beat it. If this is the new game I want no part of it. The lack of lifesteal really hurts solo.
Also was noticing encounters come down to 1 sec cooldown and then go back up to 3 or even become available and when I went to use them they'd gone back to 2 or 3.
Also was noticing encounters come down to 1 sec cooldown and then go back up to 3 or even become available and when I went to use them they'd gone back to 2 or 3.
Maybe its the ping. I remember I had that kinda problem during dragon run in WoD back in the days.
Took my 15K lvl 70 combat HR into Nobleman extraction (was 15K before, all my pet equipment was redundant, had a couple of blue items and runestones so didn't gain any IL). I was looking for a level 70 mission so the scaling was minimised. I found the Zeline and Rakhez encounter utterly impossible. In the end I had to use a scroll to beat it. If this is the new game I want no part of it. The lack of lifesteal really hurts solo.
Also was noticing encounters come down to 1 sec cooldown and then go back up to 3 or even become available and when I went to use them they'd gone back to 2 or 3.
Same here.I have a bad feeling that mod 16 is going to turn out to be another mod 6 for rangers.I'm hoping I'm wrong but if not, there's going to be alot of people that main rangers that won't be sticking around for 2 years for Cryptic to fix it again.
Warden Feat "Storm's Recovery" multiprocs on enemies hit, like the sotf bug from before mod 15. Kindly fix this now if this is not WAI. We dont want to get used to a feat that would be changed after we get used to it.
I don't think it's a bug but we definitely need a dev to come here and tell us if it's WAI.
Is any dev responsible for the ranger? Or anyone reading this thread at all? We had a grand total of one dev post in 4 pages.
Melee damage was fixed, that's great! But there's still a lot to be done.
It is clearly a bug both by the description of the feat and the intended changes in M16.
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
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lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
After spending a lot of time testing this weekend; leveling the rogue, barbarian, wizard and paladin to 80... I can say that the ranger feels very weak. Our encounter cool downs are too long, and our encounters and dailies all hit for much less than the other classes. This makes for a much more painful and slower leveling progress solo, and feels weak in dungeons. What's sad is that my lvl 80 barbarian running DPS currently feels much more capable at a more than 4k lower item level, than my "pimped out" 23k Ranger.
I suggest: 1. Increase magnitude damage on all encounters by 30 -60% (our hardest hitters should be in line with hardest hitting Rogue encounters) OR Reduce encounter cool down by at least 25% 2. Increase magnitude damage on Aimed Strike/Shot (double?) 3. Rapid volley needs a major magnitude boost (bring it inline with ax-storm on the barbarian), right now it's worthless 4. Add a feat to warden that does the reverse of the Hunter feat (increase melee by 50%, and decrease ranged by 50%)
Before go live, I would expect the Ranger to be competitive with the other DPS classes, and be able to fill the role (depending on build) as the single target DPS, AE DPS, or hybrid DPS... I have tried a variety of builds/ feat and power changes, and while it is fun to play, as of this last patch it's not truly competitive in any scenario... If it's not competitive people will not want to take Rangers on runs.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Warden Feat "Storm's Recovery" multiprocs on enemies hit, like the sotf bug from before mod 15. Kindly fix this now if this is not WAI. We dont want to get used to a feat that would be changed after we get used to it.
I don't think it's a bug but we definitely need a dev to come here and tell us if it's WAI.
Is any dev responsible for the ranger? Or anyone reading this thread at all? We had a grand total of one dev post in 4 pages.
Melee damage was fixed, that's great! But there's still a lot to be done.
It is clearly a bug both by the description of the feat and the intended changes in M16.
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
Just please be very careful not to err in the other direction, I, and I'm guessing pretty much every old HR in the game, is sick to the back teeth of playing second fiddle to neverwinter's semingly beloved gwf/barbarian, not to mention being lowman on the pole in pvp.
If our dps is being propped up by broken cooldown reductions - giving a false impression we are over powered - please take a look at our damage output sans the bugged feats/powers, and make sure it is balanced with the barbarian class. If nothing else it will give parties a choice of dps when the mod goes live.
If the dream pve meta just ends up as dc, tank, barbarian, barbarian + another dc/tank/offtank again, there will have been absolutely zero reason to have undertaken the overhaul in the first place.
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
HR are overbalanced now? wow nice to hear. have you even considered changes you did for pvp? -HR has no CC break, -They are now capped at 50% deflect that can be reduced by counter stat. -They cant "spam" dailies to protect themselves with invi or minor daze. -No more self healing with lifesteal nor wild medecine. -No more piercing damage -Less mvt speed
How do you think HR will survive in pvp?
For pve, the gameplay is only "ok" with the multiproc of cd reduction, i cant imagine once its fixed. At wills are weaks and dailies take ages to fill. I guess not much hope for HR in mod 16 as it is "overbalanced" for you...
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
The ranger for five modules was a useless class, only in the last (M15) module did they at least do something with it. In this thread there are few posts, not because the ranger is good, but because no one plays them! The ranger is currently not DD, but assistant-DD or support!
Warden Feat "Storm's Recovery" multiprocs on enemies hit, like the sotf bug from before mod 15. Kindly fix this now if this is not WAI. We dont want to get used to a feat that would be changed after we get used to it.
I don't think it's a bug but we definitely need a dev to come here and tell us if it's WAI.
Is any dev responsible for the ranger? Or anyone reading this thread at all? We had a grand total of one dev post in 4 pages.
Melee damage was fixed, that's great! But there's still a lot to be done.
It is clearly a bug both by the description of the feat and the intended changes in M16.
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
Thank you for settling this debate.
Could you please share with us some more insights regarding your current plans for the cooldown reduction feats?
There are 3 feats which can reduce the encounter cooldowns (Swiftness of the Fox, Storm's Recovery and Forestbond) and I think you will agree that these will have a major effect on the way the new ranger will perform. I have several concerns regarding them.
1. Their magnitude
Both SotF and SR reduce cooldowns by a set amount of time, 1 and 3 seconds respectively. FB, however, has a magnitude of 5%. Most encounters have a cooldown ranging from 10 to 15 seconds, with only a few outliers at 20 seconds. Even in the best cases 5% translates into 1s. I think it would be a lot more practical to give it a set value too.
SR only affects encounters of the same type, so 2 encounters at most. With only one trigger per activation, an encounter will be reduced by 6s at most before being reset. This is quite good, but maybe not enough.
SotF affects encounters of the other type, so in this case an encounter can be reduced by up to 3s. That's very small. I'd suggest increasing its magnitude to at least 1.5s.
FB affects all cooldowns but the Hunter only has access to 3 encounters which apply grasping roots (Hindering Shot, Hindering Strike and Constricting Arrow). I suggest to set the magnitude of FB to 2s at the very least.
2. The way they trigger (SotF and SR only)
At the moment, these two feats are triggered by "hitting" a target. In the case of an offensive encounter it makes perfect sense. However, in the case of the buffing encounters (Boar Hide, Fox's Cunning and Oak Skin) the feats only trigger when hitting a friendly player and the neither the ranger or his companion count. So please make sure these feats trigger on encounter activation or make it so that the ranger himself would count as a target hit in the case of buffs.
3. Charges
Hindering Shot, Cordon of Arrows and Rapid Volley. Rapid Volley is a brand new encounter with many charges and a very short cooldown. The design is interesting and may prove useful so I'll leave this encounter aside for the following part.
The charges on Hindering Shot and Cordon of Arrows prevent them from benefiting from the aforementioned cooldown-reducing feats while bringing very little advantage to the player otherwise.
I'd like to strongly suggest you to remove the charges from these two encounters.
The ranger for five modules was a useless class, only in the last (M15) module did they at least do something with it. In this thread there are few posts, not because the ranger is good, but because no one plays them! The ranger is currently not DD, but assistant-DD or support!
Oh, please! The HR has been doing great for at least 5 modules and is definitely among the best DD classes at the moment.
@noworries#8859, There are 2 more points I'd like to bring to your attention and on which I'd like to know your impressions.
1. Grasping Roots
The current grasping roots class mechanic involves two types of roots, weak and strong.
Only one encounter causes weak grasping roots, Hindering Shot. The main reason for this differentiation is its charges which allow this encounter to be used three times in a row. Removing these charges, on top of the other advantages I've presented before, would, in my opinion, make the distinction between strong and weak grasping roots completely unnecessary.
Three encounters (Cordon of Arrows, Plant Growth and Bear Trap) apply root effects which are not grasping roots. I think replacing these effects by grasping roots would be a great improvement and help improve the otherwise lackluster focus of the Hunter towards grasping roots.
This leads us to the three related Hunter feats : Forestbond, Thorned Roots and Biting Snares.
Forestbond will proc more often with more grasping roots available (no multi-proc of course!) so its magnitude may have to be lowered to something reasonable. Maybe 1.5s per encounter.
Thorned Roots is quite strong at the moment but cannot stack, so applying grasping roots more often won't have much effect. I think it'd be a lot more entertaining to let it stack while reducing its magnitude to something like 25. The effect on bosses will also have to be lowered.
Biting Snares already has a cooldown so it shouldn't require any changes.
2. Binding Arrow / Oak Skin available to Warden only
I believe this encounter should be available to both paragons instead of Warden only for 2 reasons. Firstly, Binding Arrow applies grasping which, as I've already pointed before is one of the main focuses of the Hunter. Secondly, because Oak Skin is the one and only healing power available to the ranger. One of the main goals of Mod 16 is to make healing more useful in general and I certainly like it! However, having access to at least one healing power while alone will be all the more important.
Now what can we swap it with? Hindering Shot, Constricting Arrows and Cordon of Arrows all apply roots so making them available to Warden only wouldn't make much sense. That only leaves Marauder's Escape and Rain of Arrows. Marauder's Escape / Rush is a nice utility encounter which can be useful for both paragons. Rain of Arrows / Swords, on the other hand, both are area of effect powers which seems to better fit the Warden than the Hunter. That seems to be the most logical choice.
While speaking of Oak Skin, I can't help but point out that its healing component currently is much too weak. 9% max health over 9 seconds isn't impressive at all but moeover, since it is a HoT, using it again before 9 seconds won't bring any extra healing. I think 25% would be a good start.
Some of these changes may or may not be already planned. In any case, I'd like to hear a little about it if you please.
BUG : The recent changes made to the way melee damage is calculated had unforseen consequences. Several effects deal 0 damage while in melee stance but still work normally in ranged stance. These include all daily actions and Thorned Roots.
Nature's Envoy (feat) : Prevents Forest Ghost from dealing damage.
lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
edited March 2019
@noworries#8859 any chance we can get some responses to some of our feedback (a bit more than "don't worry, you are all good")? Many of us have pointed out that the Ranger while in a good place from a paragon balance (minus a few root issues), really is not competing with other DPS classes in it's current state, and does have some issues. I know that you are a busy person with a lot going on; but the interaction would help those of us who love playing this class feel like we are being heard and addressed, and would go a long way to easing a lot of player anxiety (which is running at a fever pitch in some groups).
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Warden Feat "Storm's Recovery" multiprocs on enemies hit, like the sotf bug from before mod 15. Kindly fix this now if this is not WAI. We dont want to get used to a feat that would be changed after we get used to it.
I don't think it's a bug but we definitely need a dev to come here and tell us if it's WAI.
Is any dev responsible for the ranger? Or anyone reading this thread at all? We had a grand total of one dev post in 4 pages.
Melee damage was fixed, that's great! But there's still a lot to be done.
It is clearly a bug both by the description of the feat and the intended changes in M16.
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
You might think it's overbalanced, but we still have questions! Like ROOTS! Are you, can you, please make all the roots the same? Or explain why not. And oak skin! Why is the heal so small AND a hot? And not available until really high level?
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minotaur2857Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,141Arc User
Took my 15K lvl 70 combat HR into Nobleman extraction (was 15K before, all my pet equipment was redundant, had a couple of blue items and runestones so didn't gain any IL). I was looking for a level 70 mission so the scaling was minimised. I found the Zeline and Rakhez encounter utterly impossible. In the end I had to use a scroll to beat it. If this is the new game I want no part of it. The lack of lifesteal really hurts solo.
Also was noticing encounters come down to 1 sec cooldown and then go back up to 3 or even become available and when I went to use them they'd gone back to 2 or 3.
this is definitely a ranger issue. It was 10x easier with my similarly geared barbarian
2
lunartic666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 53Arc User
edited March 2019
Pathfinder's Action duration bugged with elven battle ench slotted. Seeker's vengance apply it's bonus to ground targeted powers (thorn ward, cordon of arrows etc.) with just artifact offhand slotted, no need to slot seeker's in power tray.
Forestbond should reduce cooldowns by much more than 5%. Hunter's teamwork should give it's bonus while killing target, not when it's killed, should help team much more on bossfights and stuff. Any cooldown reductions must apply to recharging stacks of powers that use stacks.
I was a very strong advocate for the HR. Last HR rework and same for the time before that. Several of us warned Cryptic about the future of Neverwinter going the way it did and we were ignored then. The new System is no where near balanced for the HR. It is clear with the lack of responses here that the HR is going by the wayside. Look at our few post and the lack of any fixes to the mess we have now. If you don't believe me look at the Barbarian Thread and the massive interaction with the Developer team and responses and our 1 post saying were all good .
Now About the HR After spending a lot of time testing leveling barbarian, and paladin to 80... I can say that the ranger feels clunky. Our encounter cool downs and animations are too long, and our encounters and dailies all hit for much less than the other classes. This makes for a much more painful and slower leveling progress solo, and feels weak in dungeons. What's sad is that my 14kil barbarian running DPS currently feels much more capable at lower item level, than 22k il HR I suggest: a. Increase magnitude damage on all encounters by 30 -60% (our hardest hitters should be in line with hardest hitting cw or barbarian encounters) b. lower cool downs and increase time of DPS on things like PG c. move roots to ranger tree and give Warden longstriders d. This I stole from Lordaeolos. Add a feat to warden that does the reverse of the Hunter feat (increase melee by 50%, and decrease ranged by 50%)
I expect the Ranger to be competitive with the other DPS classes, and be able run as as the single DPS in end game content, I have tried a variety of builds/ feat and power changes, and while it is fun to play, as of this last patch it's not truly competitive in any scenario... with this build as stands the HR will become the least invited class in game and will cease to exist in End Game Content
Mod 16 is actually a needed chance for HR we always had Potential but due to the mechanics we could not be allowed to have any damage boost. they did Piercing DPS and we said it is is a mistake. This Single Handedly destroyed HR as a PVP contender.
I write this to open communications with the Devs and lets get started bring the HR up to where it deserves. It truly is a fun class to play Aravein@jhpnw
Post edited by jhpnw on
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lunartic666Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 53Arc User
Very important: Hunter's buffs still buff enemy team players in pvp.
After doing a quick bit of math on the stats visible on the at-will power descriptions, I found some serious imbalances. If the magnitude, a measure of the attack's power/damage dealing ability, is scaled based on the cast time of the at-will power, we find the following magnitude-per-second-cast-time values (MPS):
Rapid Shot: 100 to 175 MPS
Split Shot: 16.7 MPS
Aimed Shot: 60.6 MPS
Hunter's Teamwork: 71.4 MPS
Electric Shot: 30 to 42.9 MPS
Penetrating Arrow: 42.9 MPS
Is there a problem with my math (apart from rounding, of course), or are the higher level at wills are totally under-powered? Also, based on the "incredibly deadly" description for Aimed Shot, I'd expect a much higher magnitude.
Please compare the magnitude per second cast time of the various at-wills and make them actually make sense. Pure DPS classes with no alternative role options should be given the highest magnitude per second cast time to offset their lower solo survivability.
Come on developers, we've been through this so many times. Mod 6 the then developers forgot to scale our damage and as such, as mods progressed we got left further and further behind till mod 10, where instead of giving our class a decent pass on all powers they just fobbed us off with piercing, which everyone in the game hated, and duely nerfed us one mod later. Since then we've cobbled together builds in both pvp and pve with some success, at least in pve. Pvp, not so much. Look at the leaderboard. Count all those HRs on the fingers of what, a couple of hands at most.
Now with this mod we've all a chance to level the playing field, and yet we again find the field is not so level, with some dps classes a head or two above the rest. Take the time to really put HRs back in the game please. I, we, have been waiting for a very long time. Yes, ok, we get it, the barbarians are the most popular class, and as such have attracted many of the most... vociferous players, and of course, simple numbers gives that class some degree of leverage over the game, but this is a vicious circle which leaves everyone else competing for the dps niche out in the cold.
It's still early days, there is time. We don't ask to be overpowered, just not underpowered. Mod 16 is a critical point in the evolution of the game, and for all the classes involved, it will form the foundation upon which the proceeding content will build, so please put some time into making sure the dps classes start the race on equal footing.
No idea what my toon is now.
5
lordaeolosMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
Did a quick test...
Test Conditions:
-"Pimped out" Ranger 23k IL with rank 15 bondings (test #1 - #3) -19k IL Barbarian with rank 14 bondings (test #4) -1 minute timer for each test on target dummies in stronghold -each test was repeated three times, only the best test result is displayed -each test started with full action points -no artifacts or mount powers were used -damage tracked in ACT -summoned companion was chultan tiger
test #1: Hunter paragon, archery focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 5,775,504
test #2: Hunter paragon, trapper focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,542,665
test #3: Warden paragon, melee focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,562,792
test #4: Barbarian Blademaster, Best DPS in 1 minute: 9,442,025 (lowest was ~8,700,000)
This outlines what many of us have been saying in this thread, the Ranger is currently not competing with other DPS classes, and the warden is not in balance with the hunter. It's pretty eye opening when another class with ~4k less Item level so completely demolishes the Ranger in every respect. I could repeat this test result comparing the Ranger to the Wizard, or the Rogue.. and the results would look similar.
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Critical Action : Only works with encounter powers. You can get more than one stack but the effect is the same. You lose all stacks after doing one critical attack with an encounter.
-"Pimped out" Ranger 23k IL with rank 15 bondings (test #1 - #3) -19k IL Barbarian with rank 14 bondings (test #4) -1 minute timer for each test on target dummies in stronghold -each test was repeated three times, only the best test result is displayed -each test started with full action points -no artifacts or mount powers were used -damage tracked in ACT -summoned companion was chultan tiger
test #1: Hunter paragon, archery focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 5,775,504
test #2: Hunter paragon, trapper focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,542,665
test #3: Warden paragon, melee focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,562,792
test #4: Barbarian Blademaster, Best DPS in 1 minute: 9,442,025 (lowest was ~8,700,000)
This outlines what many of us have been saying in this thread, the Ranger is currently not competing with other DPS classes, and the warden is not in balance with the hunter. It's pretty eye opening when another class with ~4k less Item level so completely demolishes the Ranger in every respect. I could repeat this test result comparing the Ranger to the Wizard, or the Rogue.. and the results would look similar.
Warden Feat "Storm's Recovery" multiprocs on enemies hit, like the sotf bug from before mod 15. Kindly fix this now if this is not WAI. We dont want to get used to a feat that would be changed after we get used to it.
I don't think it's a bug but we definitely need a dev to come here and tell us if it's WAI.
Is any dev responsible for the ranger? Or anyone reading this thread at all? We had a grand total of one dev post in 4 pages.
Melee damage was fixed, that's great! But there's still a lot to be done.
It is clearly a bug both by the description of the feat and the intended changes in M16.
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
-"Pimped out" Ranger 23k IL with rank 15 bondings (test #1 - #3) -19k IL Barbarian with rank 14 bondings (test #4) -1 minute timer for each test on target dummies in stronghold -each test was repeated three times, only the best test result is displayed -each test started with full action points -no artifacts or mount powers were used -damage tracked in ACT -summoned companion was chultan tiger
test #1: Hunter paragon, archery focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 5,775,504
test #2: Hunter paragon, trapper focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,542,665
test #3: Warden paragon, melee focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,562,792
test #4: Barbarian Blademaster, Best DPS in 1 minute: 9,442,025 (lowest was ~8,700,000)
This outlines what many of us have been saying in this thread, the Ranger is currently not competing with other DPS classes, and the warden is not in balance with the hunter. It's pretty eye opening when another class with ~4k less Item level so completely demolishes the Ranger in every respect. I could repeat this test result comparing the Ranger to the Wizard, or the Rogue.. and the results would look similar.
If this is true, @noworries#8859 , u need to re-evaluate all the class balance. Do not judge based on rumour created by player without really testing them out. From what I heard, people has been talking about that Barbarian/gwf being the weakest but this test change my thoughts.
Comments
Usually when player is about to get hit during an aimed shot cast time, they will either dodge and cancel the aimed shot resulting with no shot is fired (zero dps ) or sacrifice their hit point and take the damage in exchange. Its just sad that after all this stunt, the player only produce a damage that are so underwhelming that a simple rapid shot could do better without the need of equivalent hassle. That is how I feel when I use aimed shot power and I believe the other player feel the same as well.
My suggestion as a solution to this is to give aimed shot a better chance to crit and a magnitude of 120. A +10% to crit as its feature isn't too much to ask given the time player need to sacrifice in order to successfully pull it off. Besides, since u need to aim with the shot that long, it would only make sense that u'll have a higher chance to crit.
Another simple alternative would be giving it a flat increase in magnitude to 180. However, simple as it may, it just create a viability race between rapid shot and aimed shot with a risk of overbuffing the power. I wouldn't recommend it except that u are on a tight schedule.
Aimed Shot:
- Increase base damage.
- Bonus Magnitude if mob is also targetting you.
Rapid Shot:
- +1% run speed per hit for 10 seconds.
- Stacks up to 7 or 10 times.
- The old Archery Feat tree was balanced on +40% cooldown reduction. Without it and without recovery, Archery is punished twice. With Marauder's Escape having a long cooldown. Archers need something to increase our speed.
Also the old Aimed Shot by Amenar reduces our Encounter cooldown per hit. And in addition the old mainhand give a bonus speed buff per Aimed Shot. Those were done to increase viability of Aimed Shot. Without those bonuses, there has to be something to compensate for its long cast time and vulnerability frames. Hence the suggestions.
If Rapid Shot is our go-to At-will. Aimed Shot is our off-build, high risk/ high reward At-will.
TIA
Bug - cordon of arrows often fails to trigger even when shot directly at an enemy and if applied ahead of time to an area it wont trigger when enemies walk over its circle
Martin ConDion PVE only Ranger
Guild Founder: -HunterS-
Also was noticing encounters come down to 1 sec cooldown and then go back up to 3 or even become available and when I went to use them they'd gone back to 2 or 3.
Ranger hasn't had as much back in forth in the thread as it is a class that is actually overbalanced right now, meaning that it doesn't have a lot of issues that need work/redesigns. The thread is being read just like all of the others and there will be adjustments made to bring the class in line with the others in terms of damage output.
I suggest:
1. Increase magnitude damage on all encounters by 30 -60% (our hardest hitters should be in line with hardest hitting Rogue encounters) OR Reduce encounter cool down by at least 25%
2. Increase magnitude damage on Aimed Strike/Shot (double?)
3. Rapid volley needs a major magnitude boost (bring it inline with ax-storm on the barbarian), right now it's worthless
4. Add a feat to warden that does the reverse of the Hunter feat (increase melee by 50%, and decrease ranged by 50%)
Before go live, I would expect the Ranger to be competitive with the other DPS classes, and be able to fill the role (depending on build) as the single target DPS, AE DPS, or hybrid DPS... I have tried a variety of builds/ feat and power changes, and while it is fun to play, as of this last patch it's not truly competitive in any scenario... If it's not competitive people will not want to take Rangers on runs.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
If our dps is being propped up by broken cooldown reductions - giving a false impression we are over powered - please take a look at our damage output sans the bugged feats/powers, and make sure it is balanced with the barbarian class. If nothing else it will give parties a choice of dps when the mod goes live.
If the dream pve meta just ends up as dc, tank, barbarian, barbarian + another dc/tank/offtank again, there will have been absolutely zero reason to have undertaken the overhaul in the first place.
have you even considered changes you did for pvp?
-HR has no CC break,
-They are now capped at 50% deflect that can be reduced by counter stat.
-They cant "spam" dailies to protect themselves with invi or minor daze.
-No more self healing with lifesteal nor wild medecine.
-No more piercing damage
-Less mvt speed
How do you think HR will survive in pvp?
For pve, the gameplay is only "ok" with the multiproc of cd reduction, i cant imagine once its fixed. At wills are weaks and dailies take ages to fill.
I guess not much hope for HR in mod 16 as it is "overbalanced" for you...
Could you please share with us some more insights regarding your current plans for the cooldown reduction feats?
There are 3 feats which can reduce the encounter cooldowns (Swiftness of the Fox, Storm's Recovery and Forestbond) and I think you will agree that these will have a major effect on the way the new ranger will perform. I have several concerns regarding them.
1. Their magnitude
Both SotF and SR reduce cooldowns by a set amount of time, 1 and 3 seconds respectively. FB, however, has a magnitude of 5%. Most encounters have a cooldown ranging from 10 to 15 seconds, with only a few outliers at 20 seconds. Even in the best cases 5% translates into 1s. I think it would be a lot more practical to give it a set value too.
SR only affects encounters of the same type, so 2 encounters at most. With only one trigger per activation, an encounter will be reduced by 6s at most before being reset. This is quite good, but maybe not enough.
SotF affects encounters of the other type, so in this case an encounter can be reduced by up to 3s. That's very small. I'd suggest increasing its magnitude to at least 1.5s.
FB affects all cooldowns but the Hunter only has access to 3 encounters which apply grasping roots (Hindering Shot, Hindering Strike and Constricting Arrow). I suggest to set the magnitude of FB to 2s at the very least.
2. The way they trigger (SotF and SR only)
At the moment, these two feats are triggered by "hitting" a target. In the case of an offensive encounter it makes perfect sense. However, in the case of the buffing encounters (Boar Hide, Fox's Cunning and Oak Skin) the feats only trigger when hitting a friendly player and the neither the ranger or his companion count. So please make sure these feats trigger on encounter activation or make it so that the ranger himself would count as a target hit in the case of buffs.
3. Charges
Hindering Shot, Cordon of Arrows and Rapid Volley. Rapid Volley is a brand new encounter with many charges and a very short cooldown. The design is interesting and may prove useful so I'll leave this encounter aside for the following part.
The charges on Hindering Shot and Cordon of Arrows prevent them from benefiting from the aforementioned cooldown-reducing feats while bringing very little advantage to the player otherwise.
I'd like to strongly suggest you to remove the charges from these two encounters.
Thanks for reading.
1. Grasping Roots
The current grasping roots class mechanic involves two types of roots, weak and strong.
Only one encounter causes weak grasping roots, Hindering Shot. The main reason for this differentiation is its charges which allow this encounter to be used three times in a row. Removing these charges, on top of the other advantages I've presented before, would, in my opinion, make the distinction between strong and weak grasping roots completely unnecessary.
Three encounters (Cordon of Arrows, Plant Growth and Bear Trap) apply root effects which are not grasping roots. I think replacing these effects by grasping roots would be a great improvement and help improve the otherwise lackluster focus of the Hunter towards grasping roots.
This leads us to the three related Hunter feats : Forestbond, Thorned Roots and Biting Snares.
Forestbond will proc more often with more grasping roots available (no multi-proc of course!) so its magnitude may have to be lowered to something reasonable. Maybe 1.5s per encounter.
Thorned Roots is quite strong at the moment but cannot stack, so applying grasping roots more often won't have much effect. I think it'd be a lot more entertaining to let it stack while reducing its magnitude to something like 25. The effect on bosses will also have to be lowered.
Biting Snares already has a cooldown so it shouldn't require any changes.
2. Binding Arrow / Oak Skin available to Warden only
I believe this encounter should be available to both paragons instead of Warden only for 2 reasons. Firstly, Binding Arrow applies grasping which, as I've already pointed before is one of the main focuses of the Hunter. Secondly, because Oak Skin is the one and only healing power available to the ranger. One of the main goals of Mod 16 is to make healing more useful in general and I certainly like it! However, having access to at least one healing power while alone will be all the more important.
Now what can we swap it with? Hindering Shot, Constricting Arrows and Cordon of Arrows all apply roots so making them available to Warden only wouldn't make much sense. That only leaves Marauder's Escape and Rain of Arrows. Marauder's Escape / Rush is a nice utility encounter which can be useful for both paragons. Rain of Arrows / Swords, on the other hand, both are area of effect powers which seems to better fit the Warden than the Hunter. That seems to be the most logical choice.
While speaking of Oak Skin, I can't help but point out that its healing component currently is much too weak. 9% max health over 9 seconds isn't impressive at all but moeover, since it is a HoT, using it again before 9 seconds won't bring any extra healing. I think 25% would be a good start.
Some of these changes may or may not be already planned. In any case, I'd like to hear a little about it if you please.
Nature's Envoy (feat) : Prevents Forest Ghost from dealing damage.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Seeker's vengance apply it's bonus to ground targeted powers (thorn ward, cordon of arrows etc.) with just artifact offhand slotted, no need to slot seeker's in power tray.
Forestbond should reduce cooldowns by much more than 5%.
Hunter's teamwork should give it's bonus while killing target, not when it's killed, should help team much more on bossfights and stuff.
Any cooldown reductions must apply to recharging stacks of powers that use stacks.
Melee stance still do half dmg.
Old HR here posted for years on HR forum here.
I was a very strong advocate for the HR. Last HR rework and same for the time before that. Several of us warned Cryptic about the future of Neverwinter going the way it did and we were ignored then. The new System is no where near balanced for the HR. It is clear with the lack of responses here that the HR is going by the wayside. Look at our few post and the lack of any fixes to the mess we have now. If you don't believe me look at the Barbarian Thread and the massive interaction with the Developer team and responses and our 1 post saying were all good .
Now About the HR
After spending a lot of time testing leveling barbarian, and paladin to 80... I can say that the ranger feels clunky. Our encounter cool downs and animations are too long, and our encounters and dailies all hit for much less than the other classes. This makes for a much more painful and slower leveling progress solo, and feels weak in dungeons. What's sad is that my 14kil barbarian running DPS currently feels much more capable at lower item level, than 22k il HR
I suggest:
a. Increase magnitude damage on all encounters by 30 -60% (our hardest hitters should be in line with hardest hitting cw or barbarian encounters)
b. lower cool downs and increase time of DPS on things like PG
c. move roots to ranger tree and give Warden longstriders
d. This I stole from Lordaeolos. Add a feat to warden that does the reverse of the Hunter feat (increase melee by 50%, and decrease ranged by 50%)
I expect the Ranger to be competitive with the other DPS classes, and be able run as as the single DPS in end game content, I have tried a variety of builds/ feat and power changes, and while it is fun to play, as of this last patch it's not truly competitive in any scenario... with this build as stands the HR will become the least invited class in game and will cease to exist in End Game Content
Mod 16 is actually a needed chance for HR we always had Potential but due to the mechanics we could not be allowed to have any damage boost. they did Piercing DPS and we said it is is a mistake. This Single Handedly destroyed HR as a PVP contender.
I write this to open communications with the Devs and lets get started bring the HR up to where it deserves. It truly is a fun class to play
Aravein@jhpnw
Hunter's buffs still buff enemy team players in pvp.
- Rapid Shot: 100 to 175 MPS
- Split Shot: 16.7 MPS
- Aimed Shot: 60.6 MPS
- Hunter's Teamwork: 71.4 MPS
- Electric Shot: 30 to 42.9 MPS
- Penetrating Arrow: 42.9 MPS
Is there a problem with my math (apart from rounding, of course), or are the higher level at wills are totally under-powered?Also, based on the "incredibly deadly" description for Aimed Shot, I'd expect a much higher magnitude.
Please compare the magnitude per second cast time of the various at-wills and make them actually make sense. Pure DPS classes with no alternative role options should be given the highest magnitude per second cast time to offset their lower solo survivability.
Come on developers, we've been through this so many times. Mod 6 the then developers forgot to scale our damage and as such, as mods progressed we got left further and further behind till mod 10, where instead of giving our class a decent pass on all powers they just fobbed us off with piercing, which everyone in the game hated, and duely nerfed us one mod later. Since then we've cobbled together builds in both pvp and pve with some success, at least in pve. Pvp, not so much. Look at the leaderboard. Count all those HRs on the fingers of what, a couple of hands at most.
Now with this mod we've all a chance to level the playing field, and yet we again find the field is not so level, with some dps classes a head or two above the rest. Take the time to really put HRs back in the game please. I, we, have been waiting for a very long time. Yes, ok, we get it, the barbarians are the most popular class, and as such have attracted many of the most... vociferous players, and of course, simple numbers gives that class some degree of leverage over the game, but this is a vicious circle which leaves everyone else competing for the dps niche out in the cold.
It's still early days, there is time. We don't ask to be overpowered, just not underpowered. Mod 16 is a critical point in the evolution of the game, and for all the classes involved, it will form the foundation upon which the proceeding content will build, so please put some time into making sure the dps classes start the race on equal footing.
Test Conditions:
-"Pimped out" Ranger 23k IL with rank 15 bondings (test #1 - #3)
-19k IL Barbarian with rank 14 bondings (test #4)
-1 minute timer for each test on target dummies in stronghold
-each test was repeated three times, only the best test result is displayed
-each test started with full action points
-no artifacts or mount powers were used
-damage tracked in ACT
-summoned companion was chultan tiger
test #1: Hunter paragon, archery focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 5,775,504
test #2: Hunter paragon, trapper focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,542,665
test #3: Warden paragon, melee focused feats and encounters, Best DPS in 1 minute: 4,562,792
test #4: Barbarian Blademaster, Best DPS in 1 minute: 9,442,025 (lowest was ~8,700,000)
This outlines what many of us have been saying in this thread, the Ranger is currently not competing with other DPS classes, and the warden is not in balance with the hunter. It's pretty eye opening when another class with ~4k less Item level so completely demolishes the Ranger in every respect. I could repeat this test result comparing the Ranger to the Wizard, or the Rogue.. and the results would look similar.
Guild Leader: Mistaken Identity (formerly Midnight Express)
My Twitch Stream
See my Youtube Channel for guides and more
"Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Critical Action : Only works with encounter powers. You can get more than one stack but the effect is the same. You lose all stacks after doing one critical attack with an encounter.
What makes me really really worried ....
THIS >