Palidin changes coming up - sounds like a big nerf to the class

soltasword · March 2019

So I just read the new palidin changes coming with the new update and I must say, they don't sound all that good to me. Of course I have not played the change yet and can't say without doubt they are good or bad but they don't sound that good. They are taking cool downs away from our encounter powers and giving us a pool of divinity to use which of course is not unlimited and can run out during a battle ( and I am sure it will most of the time ) leaving us without the ability to use our encounter powers until said pool regenerates. This to me isn't a good idea. We might not have any cool downs on our encounter powers but now instead of using them every time we can ( because we have unlimited cool downs ), we have to choose when and if we want to use them since we can be left without the ability to use them at all. So basically it means they are nerfing us by taking away our ability to use our encounter powers at every cool down and giving us a supply of divinity ( as I said, will most likely run out during most battles ) to limit the ability to use our encounter powers as we see fit. This sounds like a really big nerf to the class disguised as hey we are doing good for the class here. I came back after over a 3 year absence and realized how much I actually missed playing this game and my palidin but this change may make me quit playing again. I enjoy my palidin just the way he is. Cool downs and all. Why not just shorten the cool downs of our encounter powers and leave them as is.

thetoothpick · March 2019

The class as of now on the preview site is lacklustre for sure. The feats are sad compared to other class overhauls. To kill anything feels like a chore because the at wills felel like a soft pat to the enemies. You burn through divinity in seconds and stand still with your sheid is up waiting for the slowest divinity recharge time ever seen. They basically removed the idea of the paladin being able to heal or protect itself by nerfing Templar wraith into the ground. It is sad for most Paladins currently in the new preview hopefully it hey fix these problems before release

soltasword · March 2019

As I said, I haven't tried it yet but it sounded like a really bad idea. I figured you would use up divinity long before any fight was remotely over and be stuck there with pretty much no skills to use. And from what you say, this is not just a real bad idea but it seems like gross incompetence on the part of the devs to take a decent class and pretty much ruin it. Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should. They should just leave the class alone. I like it the way it is. Well, since I haven't remotely finished grinding out my palidin, it sounds like I won't either. Don't want to start over on another class but it sounds like back to Lord of the Rings Online for me when the new update comes out. Why can't the devs just leave stuff alone sometimes. Something is working and is fun to play and then they decide to come along and ruin it.

kharkov58 · March 2019

It sounds like a big nerf because it is one. They give us dismal feats and poor powers to use, and then give us the paragon "feature" -30% damage dealt.

majorcharvenak · March 2019

Many builds were destroyed so it wasn't just the paladins that took the blow from the nerf bat. They split all our powers, passives are mostly proc only on daily usage and the feats are...well...wanting in many respects. Tanking takes a bit more work, especially positioning and the lack of previous methods of survivability. The reduced damage output for the Justicar was one of the key reasons I didn't use it for soloing the leveling content. Plus I mostly play a Devo on live anyway. Heals range from meh, to okay, to sweet. Divinity doesn't seem as hard to maintain if you keep Circle of Power up when you cast Smite. Smite is the go-to damage encounter for both paragons. The at-wills are lackluster at best for both paragon's except for Shielding Strike which is pretty useful and Divine Fulmination is a ranged power. Divinity recharge is pretty slow either through out of combat regen or channeling it. It is now, a very different class from the ones on live.

All that being said, AND my fave builds being destroyed, its not as bad as I expected it to be. The solo content, so far and with a few exceptions, has been fun. The older content (barring dev-acknowledged bugs) is doable solo. The challenge campaigns are right up the alley for any farmers or grinders and the loot drops seem perfect for any packrats or folks with limited inventory space (Mostly RP items). So don't go throwing your pallies off the highest point you can find in Undermountain just yet. Get on preview, rebuild your character a couple of times, test out what works and if (after all that) it doesn't work for you - Play your favorite alt, build another character or bounce out. My two coppers.

ghoulz66 · March 2019

majorcharvenak said:
Many builds were destroyed so it wasn't just the paladins that took the blow from the nerf bat. They split all our powers, passives are mostly proc only on daily usage and the feats are...well...wanting in many respects. Tanking takes a bit more work, especially positioning and the lack of previous methods of survivability. The reduced damage output for the Justicar was one of the key reasons I didn't use it for soloing the leveling content. Plus I mostly play a Devo on live anyway. Heals range from meh, to okay, to sweet. Divinity doesn't seem as hard to maintain if you keep Circle of Power up when you cast Smite. Smite is the go-to damage encounter for both paragons. The at-wills are lackluster at best for both paragon's except for Shielding Strike which is pretty useful and Divine Fulmination is a ranged power. Divinity recharge is pretty slow either through out of combat regen or channeling it. It is now, a very different class from the ones on live.

All that being said, AND my fave builds being destroyed, its not as bad as I expected it to be. The solo content, so far and with a few exceptions, has been fun. The older content (barring dev-acknowledged bugs) is doable solo. The challenge campaigns are right up the alley for any farmers or grinders and the loot drops seem perfect for any packrats or folks with limited inventory space (Mostly RP items). So don't go throwing your pallies off the highest point you can find in Undermountain just yet. Get on preview, rebuild your character a couple of times, test out what works and if (after all that) it doesn't work for you - Play your favorite alt, build another character or bounce out. My two coppers.

Spamming smite is your idea of fun? I'd rather remain in mod 15 preserved as it is, with my legs broken and an endless migraine than have that new garbage shoved down my throat. It's a sham, a fraud, and an insult disguised as a rebalance.

majorcharvenak · March 2019

ghoulz66 said:

majorcharvenak said:
Many builds were destroyed so it wasn't just the paladins that took the blow from the nerf bat. They split all our powers, passives are mostly proc only on daily usage and the feats are...well...wanting in many respects. Tanking takes a bit more work, especially positioning and the lack of previous methods of survivability. The reduced damage output for the Justicar was one of the key reasons I didn't use it for soloing the leveling content. Plus I mostly play a Devo on live anyway. Heals range from meh, to okay, to sweet. Divinity doesn't seem as hard to maintain if you keep Circle of Power up when you cast Smite. Smite is the go-to damage encounter for both paragons. The at-wills are lackluster at best for both paragon's except for Shielding Strike which is pretty useful and Divine Fulmination is a ranged power. Divinity recharge is pretty slow either through out of combat regen or channeling it. It is now, a very different class from the ones on live.

All that being said, AND my fave builds being destroyed, its not as bad as I expected it to be. The solo content, so far and with a few exceptions, has been fun. The older content (barring dev-acknowledged bugs) is doable solo. The challenge campaigns are right up the alley for any farmers or grinders and the loot drops seem perfect for any packrats or folks with limited inventory space (Mostly RP items). So don't go throwing your pallies off the highest point you can find in Undermountain just yet. Get on preview, rebuild your character a couple of times, test out what works and if (after all that) it doesn't work for you - Play your favorite alt, build another character or bounce out. My two coppers.
Spamming smite is your idea of fun? I'd rather remain in mod 15 preserved as it is, with my legs broken and an endless migraine than have that new garbage shoved down my throat. It's a sham, a fraud, and an insult disguised as a rebalance.

Ghoulz. I found some of the content enjoyable. For me. My playstyle is now a bit more reserved given divinity and the fact that I can't go flying headlong into battle as either a prot or a devo like I can in Mod 15 on back. I enjoyed the light story and the scenery of the new zones. There were also some other features I liked. Now would I have liked them even more if our powers, feats and boons were transferred to this new mod, absolutely! Would I like some adjustments to what we currently have in Mod 16? Yes. Since our powers and feats weren't kept and considering that this is probably the future I enjoyed it for what it was. Like I said, each player is going to have to make a choice for themselves as to whether they want to adjust and if this game is for them or not. If it doesn't, your two other choices are pretty clear. Two more coppers.

kharkov58 · March 2019

The content is not the issue with what they have done to make the class not fun to play anymore. The content looks great. Its just that I will not have a class I want to run.

kingkevin · March 2019

If they allowed Templar’s wrath or any other encounter to grant temp hp(even if it’s like 60-80% of the damage dealt) it would fix one of the biggest problems people have with the paladin
This wouldn’t solve almost any of the problems, but it would help make the paladin feel more like what it used to feel like

majorcharvenak · March 2019

The heal side is much more active than it was in the past. In terms of having to heal anyways. No more fire and forget of the VoE/BoV/Div Call/Prism synergy. You really have to aim, fire and micromanage the heals with your divinity loss. Lay on hands will get a lot more use than I think it has in the past since cure wounds is ridiculously low with a slightly longer cast time. While Divine Touch and Cleansing touch give decent heals, its nowhere close to how things where with the synergy. I did find it easier to constantly spam divine touch with little divinity loss as long as I threw down circle of power first. If there is one giant complaint I have is that sanctuary was moved to a daily. If anything, place that back on the paladin's block. Let it reduce damage and give a small heal and it up time be tied to the block. If it goes down, sanctuary goes down. At least it might keep the damage coming along the flanks manageable if you didn't have to drop your shield to pop a heal. I would recommend that for BOTH paragon trees. Two more coppers.

winteranesti · March 2019

Thank you for deleting my post for being honest on how I feel about the changes to the new paladin. In short, mechanics are clunky, stale, and tedious. The play style does not fit the paladin at all. I would also like to request that classes that were changed and no longer viable to some players in the play style that the hard work put into those classes like the legendary mounts be able to be pulled off the class and moved to another more viable class in the new mod. Make the mounts account bound. This protects the economy if you worried and would go along way of helping your loyal long term player base who are now displaced by mod 16. If you can do this for the enchants, it would certainly work for the mounts as well. Just something to consider.

ryonas · March 2019

Let us be honest

Content is done right now so fast it takes 10 minutes to finish a dungeon easily with non premade groups
We don't use our shields because of temp hp

I never stacked recovery yet Artificer persuasion alone gave too much recovery on my paladin i could easily get 3 dailies and stack 1 shield of faith with 2 divine protector that with sheperd devotion buffing my party with deflect based on my boosted power which in turn for each player assassin covenant converts to power with a feat that gave 25% of my power add to that DC

what people are complaining about is that change from buffs ramping the game to having to raise my shield and not getting one shotted

I was raging on preview getting 1 shotted till some one mentioned the chicken being the cause removed it and hey it is easy

Am I doing the same insane stuff I could before answer simply and easily no
Did I accept that fact and found another playstyle and build for my paladin

Answer yes because I love tanking and the fact that I have to raise my shield so my orcish barbie friend can pew pew is fine by me

the only negative thing I would be complaining about is putting my shield up and not be able to even use at wills while i am holding my shield and getting sleepy while doing that but does that mean that it is dooms day for neverwinter noo the changes are calculated because of the testing done with players who signed the NDA than what happened in mod 6 and devs are listening to our feedback .. this time there is a difference on paladin thread the dev is answering our feedback and what could be done ( Testing stuff really sucks In work my colleague she is a tester and calls me when something that happens while i am working and i would be like i want to fire the sprinkles and not work because of how silly the stuff she comes up with ... so the fact that they are doing this with select player base and having constructive feed back is well done from their side an A+ from me for how they are handling it seriously)

There will be argument that they removed alot of mechanics especially the feats and i agree with that probably to maintain the game easier for their dev team . As a programmer it is hard just to analyze what people are building and if something is going out of wack and unbalanced . the amount of possibilities and data generated seriously would make you need a team of big data engineers to analyze what people are choosing.

If downsizing the game choices to provide better stability for the game and creating new content i am fine with that however build a system that can be built upon and improved each mod and lasts

i dont want to see another system introduced in mod 26 I do not want every mod that has number 6 to be the player base nightmare

ron · March 2019

WHAT? IM A PALADIN AND I TESTED THE CHANGES AND THEY'RE AMAZING!!
If you put only one encounter that requires divinty on your character, you will be able to use the power for 5 or more times instantly when you enter combat!! How's that sounds to you? 😉
As a DPS Paladin (I know it sounds weird, but it's possible), I would put the smite. It recquires 5 smites to drain your divinity. And now the smite finally does a LOT of damage! So with 5 smites, you can kill most enemy groups instantly! Finally we do a decent damage!

draugkir · March 2019

winteranesti said:
Thank you for deleting my post for being honest on how I feel about the changes to the new paladin. In short, mechanics are clunky, stale, and tedious. The play style does not fit the paladin at all. I would also like to request that classes that were changed and no longer viable to some players in the play style that the hard work put into those classes like the legendary mounts be able to be pulled off the class and moved to another more viable class in the new mod. Make the mounts account bound. This protects the economy if you worried and would go along way of helping your loyal long term player base who are now displaced by mod 16. If you can do this for the enchants, it would certainly work for the mounts as well. Just something to consider.

Completly agree with this player.
The idea to allowe mounts and companions to be move to another char in the account is quite good aswel.

For me.. Op / paladin whatever you cal it.. its simply not worht playing anymore.

havlocke · March 2019

Lets be blunt. The Pally as it stood is completely overpowered. The irony of an OP OP... This feels like a nerf because pretty much anything that changed would be a nerf. There was nowhere to go but down. My Pally is only 12k IL and she feels like a goddess walking. I'd only die if I got 1 shot by KOS or similar. And to be frank, that's why a lot of people enjoyed it. Was great while it lasted, but the dream is over.

To the people who say "this playstyle does not fit the Paladin". What playstyle is that?? Where does it say a Paladin has to be played like "x". Not to mention we have different feats, game mechanics and boons. How the hell was it going to ever be similar anyways?

spidey · March 2019

ron#1747 said:
Finally we do a decent damage!

Whats so good about it if you cant hold any aggro?

ron · March 2019

> @bobo#5090 said:
> I have an op on console at 15k il and smite does some reasonable damage in Barovia. The only place I can't do much damage now is epic dungeons. I wail on enemies(after circle of power-vow of enmity-smite) and they laugh at the gnat trying to damage them and then one shot me. If thats fixed in the new mod great. if not well, I dunno, I've put way more real cash into this free to play game than I planned on, so I don't wanna walk away, but at the same time if my character that only just now got fun to play in STK and later campaigns is totally fubared...
>
> I've only just created a pally on preview, so I have along way to go to see just how the changes would affect my xbox guy, but so far I don't like the loss of sanctuary. If I wanted to stand still and guard, I'da played a guardian fighter. I use sanctuary while running tons in mob battles/epic dungeons where I suddenly find myself with nearly 10% health remaining, and I can't use stones-potions-heals frequently/fast enough to get back into the fight. 18 second cool down on the entire potion tray when using one potion, or stone is BS when I lose 90% of 250k hit points in 1 hit.
>
> My playstyle is solo 99% of time the cuz finding a group is a pain, or I only have an 1 or so max most days to play.

> @bobo#5090 said:
> I have an op on console at 15k il and smite does some reasonable damage in Barovia. The only place I can't do much damage now is epic dungeons. I wail on enemies(after circle of power-vow of enmity-smite) and they laugh at the gnat trying to damage them and then one shot me. If thats fixed in the new mod great. if not well, I dunno, I've put way more real cash into this free to play game than I planned on, so I don't wanna walk away, but at the same time if my character that only just now got fun to play in STK and later campaigns is totally fubared...
>
> I've only just created a pally on preview, so I have along way to go to see just how the changes would affect my xbox guy, but so far I don't like the loss of sanctuary. If I wanted to stand still and guard, I'da played a guardian fighter. I use sanctuary while running tons in mob battles/epic dungeons where I suddenly find myself with nearly 10% health remaining, and I can't use stones-potions-heals frequently/fast enough to get back into the fight. 18 second cool down on the entire potion tray when using one potion, or stone is BS when I lose 90% of 250k hit points in 1 hit.
>
> My playstyle is solo 99% of time the cuz finding a group is a pain, or I only have an 1 or so max most days to play.

Right. I play solo 99% of the time too. And maybe I do a bit more damage now, but the lose of sanctuary IS horrible, and your'e right, a Paladin is NOT a fighter. I don't want to lose sanctuary😭

littledanger · March 2019

bobo#5090 said:

havlocke said:
Lets be blunt. The Pally as it stood is completely overpowered. The irony of an OP OP... This feels like a nerf because pretty much anything that changed would be a nerf. There was nowhere to go but down. My Pally is only 12k IL and she feels like a goddess walking. I'd only die if I got 1 shot by KOS or similar. And to be frank, that's why a lot of people enjoyed it. Was great while it lasted, but the dream is over.
I have a 15k IL OP on console and he is terrible in any epic area. The bad guys feel like they're getting hit by a gnat when I wail on them. And that's with CoP, and max rank enchants in my weapon slots, and a max rank artifact weapon. As it is, IF i'm not careful and let the mobs get too big in chult, or barovia(more than 6 baddies), he dies in 15seconds or less.

Frankly, you need to go to OP school at 15K you should be able to solo just about everything - I run my tore down OP with rank 8 bondings thru Baravoia for weeklies with no issues. Your stats are out of wack, or you have one of those "special" builds.

havlocke · March 2019

bobo#5090 said:

havlocke said:
Lets be blunt. The Pally as it stood is completely overpowered. The irony of an OP OP... This feels like a nerf because pretty much anything that changed would be a nerf. There was nowhere to go but down. My Pally is only 12k IL and she feels like a goddess walking. I'd only die if I got 1 shot by KOS or similar. And to be frank, that's why a lot of people enjoyed it. Was great while it lasted, but the dream is over.
I have a 15k IL OP on console and he is terrible in any epic area. The bad guys feel like they're getting hit by a gnat when I wail on them. And that's with CoP, and max rank enchants in my weapon slots, and a max rank artifact weapon. As it is, IF i'm not careful and let the mobs get too big in chult, or barovia(more than 6 baddies), he dies in 15seconds or less.

Sorry mate, if you got a 15k OP and you aren't steamrolling across whatever map you want, then you might need to check up some guides (while they are still valid). Maybe its the console, cuz I'm only playing on PC, so there might be some difference, but I dont know. My 12k OP can solo anything including chult. And I'm only using level 10 enchants, if that.

wolfnboots · March 2019

Are you using Templar's Wraith? That temp hp is a big chunk of a Paladin's survivability. I have a 10k Pally alt that didn't have any problems in Chult or Barovia other than taking a bit longer to kill stuff. At 15k you should be steamrolling, as everyone has said.

littledanger · March 2019

bobo#5090 said:
@havelocke, and littledanger,

I'm Xbox, and have the Primal weapons fully refined. Running max rank feytouched, and have 1 max rank dark, 1 max rank radiant, 1 max rank heart of fire enchant. I have leg chultan tiger, epic razorwood comps. Tiger has r 10 runestones, and primal rings, +3 comp neck piece(don't remember what). All other items are 520-540IL where possible. Rings are primal as I haven't come across anything better. the last time I rerolled him I used a guide at mmorpgtips.org(or something similar, has a lot of guides).

Like I said, I can't steamroll everything in chult, but I can solo the weeklies just fine. I just got CR opened and have yet to run it to get the sunset weapons, though at IL520 they don't look that much better than what I have, but it's still better.

You don't want sunset, I'm on xbox with a near 19k DC. My main was an OP, but became incredibly bored with it. You want R14 bondings. MW weapons are BIS but with MOD 16 coming I wouldn't drop the AD on them, primal is fine. For OP, currently on console (lol) it's all about HP and power (and power share). The IL of your gear isn't that important- it's more important that you picked the correct piece. Example, not using Sisters Clutches IL 540 or whatever it is.

majorcharvenak · March 2019

@bobo#5090. In addition to the gear, comps and enchants the other posters have rightly suggested you look at, you might want to also look at your feats, boons, and powers you've selected. At 15K, the mobs in those zones should be bowing before you, not the other way around.

soltasword · March 2019

Well, my OP is just over 9k and is in no way op at all. Not even close. But he was fun to play as he is now because he is pretty survivable. I don't do any epic stuff as I am just not there at this time. But I don't like the idea of taking away the cool downs and adding divinity to use my encounters. I haven't played the new OP yet but from what I can tell, it won't be the same as it is now. Sure, you can use your encounter powers without a cool down, but now, you are limited on how many you can use in a fight. I am usually in a fight for a long time and limiting the use of encounter powers is nothing but a bad move I think. Guess we will have to see. I was going to stay a vip for awhile but until I see this change, I am keeping my money in my pocket.

havlocke · March 2019

soltasword said:
Well, my OP is just over 9k and is in no way op at all. Not even close. But he was fun to play as he is now because he is pretty survivable. ......

I Guess we will have to see. I was going to stay a vip for awhile but until I see this change, I am keeping my money in my pocket.

OP gets more OP as your IL grows. The difference between 9k and 11k is pretty massive. Order of magnitude massive (which is yet another reason they are doing Mod16, to address this).

I am looking forward to the changes but I'm still going to spend NOTHING until the month after the mod hits. There is no good reason to do so.

Palidin changes coming up - sounds like a big nerf to the class

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