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Official M16: Paladin Feedback

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  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    banegrivm said:

    As a casual player I no longer like my paladin. I felt sort of meh about it to be honest in the past. The whole "Maces are Iconic" thing really ruined the class fantasy, as we all know, the whole "knight in shining armor" concept (that's the description that you just gave out for the tank spec) is built all around knights who used swords as primary weapons. For that matter in all of D&D only one character that I can think of ever used a blunt weapon and even then it was Tyr's hammer. The whole knight in shining armor mythos is all built on the legends of St. George who rode around on a white horse named Bayard, rescuing fair maidens in distress, while carrying... wait for it... a magic sword called Ascalon that he used to slay dragons with. For that matter, the Holy Avenger in D&D is a sword. Not a mace.

    That all being said, hopefully that changes with this update. However also as others have pointed out, the new changes just are not fun. While running around in tank spec I found myself running out of divinity just way too quickly. I felt rather foolish and bored having to just stand there blocking for a while till I got enough divinity up to finish off my opponents.

    As a healer I found myself not able to pour out enough DPS. I felt like I was struggling hard in both specs. The class as it stands is just not very fun at all. I was starting to have bad flashbacks to EverQuest and mana regen. As was also mentioned, the feats pigeonhole us into using X amount of encounter powers and at-wills, which just isn't fun. I tried the method you suggested, that some powers were just powerful enough on their own to not need to feats. If that's the case what really is the point of even having feats at all? I tried it going outside the box as was suggested, it doesn't work, it is not fun. I felt as if the paladin class worked its best when abilities were taken that work with the feats, I.E. the feeling of being pigeonholed.

    As a casual I'll probably disappear from the game entirely if this update doesn't change.

    It's my understanding the new combat system is closely related to how it is done on the Champions combat tables. Read as: Boring, drawn out and at wills being mostly useless against mobs. I can tell you I am a whale at Neverwinter and this whole thing has pretty much killed the game for me. Not another penny.

    I don't mind dropping money when what I am doing is fun and exciting, but as I pointed out in another post here, spamming at wills over and over again whist waiting for cool downs is no fun. It boring, boring, boring.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • dukeguard#8158 dukeguard Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    So pretty much the paladin deals dmg by taking dmg. I like the riposte concept tbh. Binding oath doesn't state how much dmg is returned to the enemy striking you. Can we see some numbers?
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    lipbull said:

    Hi asterdahl,
    thx, that answers my Question about templar (in this case the Tooltip is false) but why can the Mobs (and this is a very Little one at the beginning) 1-shot me? I am on a tank build in undermountain. I have +250k hp and when a Little mob can hit me for 720k im a bit confused. I can´t tank myself at the Moment. :)
    But all good so far... this is exactly what the thread is made for.
    Greets, ObelX

    What you're describing is absolutely a bug, please let us know what enemy specifically is one shotting you like that.

    Regarding to the power tooltips: The problem was that my game client was in german, not in english. Thanks for the quick response, asterdahl. I appreciate it :D.

    Ah, I'm sorry! Yes, non-English languages won't be fully up-to-date until launch, I apologize!
    bazylikon said:

    Greetings to all,
    At the beginning I would like to apologize for linguistic mistakes.. English is not my native language. My character is not endgame only normal leveling character with more than 13k gs with boons from guild. I chose the path of Justicar. I understand the new policy. The game has to take more time, it has to be harder and the characters have to be weakened. But what is happening is absurd. I'm one shot dead man. Trash mobs kill me on one hit with Stronghold, Dread ring.. even Sharandar 64lvl redcap kill me on one hit. I'm a tank. I can have a lot less dps, but I must resist atack from the boss.. currently I am not able to fight with trash mobs on started location. How should I gain experience to 80 lvl when I die all the time on one hit? I see that the problem does not affect all oathbound paladin. Is it possible that my character is broken for other reasons, such as the choice of race or companions? I made a race change from a man to dragonborn. Currently, my character is not playable.

    There are a number of issues with certain zones which are scaled, I apologize for this. You can talk with other players or read on the forums to find out which areas are currently problematic, or you can wait a few weeks and try again, after we've resolved those issues.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer


    Took my pally out to Chult to do some solo'ing. Now this is content where you get mobbed and hit pretty hard. I was still surviving but at points my health was down to 30%, and that is with a healer companion. Typically I run with a striker to help me add some DPS and combat advantage because the OP is so weak. So now not only am I on the verge of dying but combat is dragged out even longer for a class that it was already painfully slow to solo with.

    Part of protection is being able to eliminate foes who are doing damage. Does not matter if they are at 100% health or 1%, they hit you with the same amount of damage till you kill them.

    And as others have mentioned, I can't generate divinity to keep anything going. I get a hit or two in with smite because its about the only thing a pally has to damage with. And then I cannot erect the Divine Pallisade to fight behind. Unlike the old GF, when I block with shift, I am not hitting anything. And because mobs are all hitting at different times, when my shield is down I get hit.

    Changes to the powers...

    Templar's Wrath got nerfs with no temp HP. You added threat... which does ZERO for me in Solo which is 95% of my play time.
    Relentless Avenger got MEGA nerfed by removing mob damage and knock back which stunned, and AP refill which allow more use of Divine Judgement. For a pally, the daily is simply how it is able to dish out any damage in solo and makes it playable, not overpowered. And being able to knock mobs back gives us breathing room to setup our encounter powers. And the healer does not even get access to this to help out the party and clear mobs
    The tank path has no access to Circle of Power with previously adding protection and increased damage for the pally and party. In fact the healer gets it and it boost Divinity recharge which, again, the tank does not have access to
    Absolution - I mean at this point I think you guys are just HAMSTER with us. You took a power that could perma-temp add 50% HPs not only on ourselves but if we took the time and effort, allow us to add this to our party and companions. Now it adds 20% resist... for 8 sec... only on me?????? I mean talk about MEGA NERF! Your timing for clicking on it and it actually being useful would almost need to be perfect every single time... which is not much with the recharge nerf
    Bane - now you've changed this as some sorta area target damage thing???? I'm freaking tanking over here! Just lowering my shield piles damage on me, I've not no time to be targeting stuff. Who asked for ranged powers? You know what a pally range power was, Relentless Avenger to get my a%$ in melee. And for a healer pally, bane was used for allies to buff them while dealing out healing to make a heal pally more useful. Now its some sorta crappy Templar's Wrath?
    And just to cap this off, putting some of the pally's encounter powers behind divinity is garbage. I am just watching a tool icon never come back on during combat. Its like just removing an encounter power from my choices.


    Changes to class features...

    Another MEGA NERF is taking away Aura of Wisdom. It was super useful for you and your party. Its not just about DPS, its about diversity of actions during combat instead of *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, *at-will*, block, *at-will*
    I can't see anyone who is running a Pally not taking Composure, you might as will just make it a built in item. Divinity recharge is so pathetic and weak even with this active. Is it actually working? So basically the pally only really has one feature slot to fill. You may disagree with that statement... you would be wrong.


    Changes to feats...

    8 out of 10 of these are directly tied to a power that you may or may not even want to use or an effect that you may or may not care about. This is god alwfully restrictive
    Pallys are slow. Only the GF was just as slow but they had Into the Fray. To counter this we had Swift Flash and Radiant Champion now both gone. I mean we are suppose to hit the boss first to argo!!!! We are going to be left behind!
    I really don't care that Aura Gifts (sharing power) has been removed but that is a HUGE!!!!! change in the gear and enchants and companions and mounts and bonus sets, etc and so on that OP builds worked around. I cannot understate how you are completely TRASHING just about every piece of gear an OP worked on.


    Changes to mechanics...

    I have posted this before, making a shield part of our HP makes no logical freak'ing sense! Are slabs of our fat hanging on them or something? In the real world a shied either blocks or it doesn't. If any HP was involved it would be for the integrity of the physical shield itself and at 0 it would be destroyed and need to be replaced. And don't suggest that magic has something to do with it, that is just a BS answer.
    Divine Pallisade, if you actually have any divinity to raise it, creates some stationary cone shield... for reasons. I mean you have bosses jumping everywhere, red areas appearing all over the place, as a tank you are tying to stay in the face of the boss so your DPS class can move to the side or back, etc. Players and foes are moving EVERYWHERE! And just standing behind a static shield IS BORING!!!! I mean its like fighting the Civil War where you stand there and shoot one another in a line. That is not how combat works. This power is almost useless. And who am I protecting behind it? My DPS should be on the other side of the foe. I have no idea where my ranged classes are, I assume they are kiting and are in no way stationary


    I will post my general feedback in that thread but for the pally, I have taken the time to go through and detail everything I can think of. One of the things I think you are missing is WHY a player plays a certain class. An OP is not flashy, they are not fast, they are not mopping up the floor with foes, etc. They are slow moving tanks. My daughter is a perfect example of why someone plays a OP... she plow through and not stress about her HP even if it takes her 2x as long. That is just an individual play style. GWF are attracted to that class for mostly different reasons. My 23 yo daughter stood behind me and watched me play my pally on preview which is what she plays and she simply said "I'm not coming back to play that mess of a class".



    First, I'd like to say that scaling issues in campaign zones and outlier enemy problems may dramatically be affecting your experience. While I know its probably most appealing to go to zones that you're familiar with the feel of to test the comparison, unfortunately due to these bugs, you may run into a case where things are feeling much more difficult than they are meant to, so I want to apologize personally for this problem.

    I did read all of your feedback, so I apologize that I don't have time to respond to everything, but if I haven't I probably either have already responded to a similar subtopic or will in the future, so if you have time, please scroll through the thread and read my posts.

    On the topic of blocking being hit points: I understand the perspective you're using as you think about it, but the shield doesn't actually have hit points. What is happening is you're using your stamina to intercept damage, and the amount of damage you can block is based on your stamina and your maximum hit points. To put it simply, the stronger you get, the more damage you can block, which is a pretty reasonable concept. And, if you block a lot of damage, your get tired (run out of stamina) and must lower your guard momentarily.

    That said, block also has other elements, for instance, blocking as a Justicar restores divinity. Additionally, if you're finding that you're dying instantly when you aren't blocking, that's an issue, and there are probably some problems going on in the area or with the enemy you're fighting so please be as specific as possible about what enemies felt like this.

    There will be some cases where blocking will be crucial, such as against a boss's tank buster, but it shouldn't be that you die instantly against a pack of trash in a dungeon when you lower your shield, or an enemy in the world. (Though in group content, if your healer isn't helping at all or is having a rough time, it may be the case that you die.)
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    bishopgor said:

    asterdahl said:

    armagus02 said:

    Tanking castle never with the paladin was painful. Didn't even get past the first wave of mobs. Just kept getting one shot. Even with the shield up they still one shot.

    Healing with the paladin felt weak. My power reaches about 30k in Temple of Spider and yet I was only healing maybe 1-2k HP per each cure wounds and maybe 3-5k when using encounter powers like Divine Shelter and Divine Touch.

    Divinity on the paladin increases very slowly in battle when using the TAB mechanic that is meant to recharge it. It barely moves at all...

    I feel pretty sure the above first two experiences have to do with Item Scaling though...it needs to be looked at.

    Thanks for reporting this. We will look into the scaling in these areas. I was tanking the new unreleased dungeon, Tomb of the Nine Gods, and Malabog's Castle internally this week and it felt great. Try giving one of those two dungeons a try if you have more time. Let me know if you have a similar experience.

    Cure wounds is pretty terrible right now, its not meant to be very good, as we don't want to let any significant healing happen without consuming a resource, and its a free heal, but we're looking at making adjustments. That said, I'm surprised that your Divine Shelter was healing for 3-5k... I assume that was ToS(M) not the leveling ToS?

    In terms of divinity regeneration, it is very slow for healers, intentionally, managing the resource is very important and you need to be able to run out. That being said, if your heals are unexpectedly low, running out will happen far, far too often. We've only had our healers run out internally when we make huge mistakes or in very difficult pulls, so we'll look into what is going on with scaling in those areas. Just know that the goal is not for you to be running out in those scenarios.


    Asterdhal but still RAS NSI is one shooting everyone on tanking pally i were hited for about 85 kk dmg sorry but nobody would stand it,
    Healadin buahahahah for ... sake 1k heals from cure wounds, 21k max from encounters, You are guys really close to make this class unplayable, lack of dmg zero buffs, class made like from paper, and as a tank GF can still do something else with raised shield but op its just standing and nothing else....
    There were some issues with the 2nd and 3rd boss of Tomb of the Nine Gods, we'll definitely be making sure to bring them back in line.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer

    Feedback: Divine barrier (TAB)

    I guess the issue I have with it is, having enemies run through the shield... and it being a rooted direction-restricted shield..

    Was just thinking it'd be interesting/less of a delicate process if......

    a) Divine barrier (TAB) comes with physical collision against enemies, but not players.

    Might add more flavour if this was a toggle option with or without a condition
    --------
    and/or
    --------
    b) Divine barrier shield is aligned and bound to user's view facing / camera, moves with player...

    Also might add flavour/play-style if it was a toggle option as either a bound-to-user mobile shield or stationary shield..
    --------
    --------
    (a) i) Stationary Divine barrier shield with physical collision against enemies, except players; but doesn't last as long as absorption shield where there's no physical collision OR the number of enemies it'll collide with decreases over time OR limited number of collisions allowed and it stops
    --------
    (b) i) Bound-to-user mobile shield with no physical collision = less of a delicate & rigid process
    --------
    (a+b) i) Bound shield with physical collision against enemies that moves with user; could be used as a bulldozer? Push enemies but depletes shield in terms of duration or size maybe? Could be used as the party approaches a narrow opening to the next area with enemies near the opening.. or within a tunnel-like space..

    (a+b) ii) Bound shield to user's view facing / camera with physical collision against enemies... could be used to cage-in the party from enemies using 2 tanks fighters/paladins? and move in that manner, front paladin/fighter.. rear paladin/fighter walking backwards with guard up... against poison gas or enemies within a foggy environment
    --------
    --------
    Seems like it'd be fun to have some wiggle room for potentially strategic customisation here


    We're definitely considering adjustments to Divine Palisade, however, I would like to clarify that you're taking reduced damage if you stand anywhere behind it, regardless of the source of the damage. So you don't need to worry if an enemy scoots around you. (Your party also takes reduced damage here, not practical for normal combat, but during a boss fight, it can be a great mitigation tool for unavoidable damage, or as an off tank in trials.)

  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer

    So pretty much the paladin deals dmg by taking dmg. I like the riposte concept tbh. Binding oath doesn't state how much dmg is returned to the enemy striking you. Can we see some numbers?

    I do believe binding oath states a magnitude below its effect... I am not at the office right now to check, but I will check and make sure it does in a future build if not.

    banegrivm said:

    As a casual player I no longer like my paladin. I felt sort of meh about it to be honest in the past. The whole "Maces are Iconic" thing really ruined the class fantasy, as we all know, the whole "knight in shining armor" concept (that's the description that you just gave out for the tank spec) is built all around knights who used swords as primary weapons. For that matter in all of D&D only one character that I can think of ever used a blunt weapon and even then it was Tyr's hammer. The whole knight in shining armor mythos is all built on the legends of St. George who rode around on a white horse named Bayard, rescuing fair maidens in distress, while carrying... wait for it... a magic sword called Ascalon that he used to slay dragons with. For that matter, the Holy Avenger in D&D is a sword. Not a mace.

    That all being said, hopefully that changes with this update. However also as others have pointed out, the new changes just are not fun. While running around in tank spec I found myself running out of divinity just way too quickly. I felt rather foolish and bored having to just stand there blocking for a while till I got enough divinity up to finish off my opponents.

    As a healer I found myself not able to pour out enough DPS. I felt like I was struggling hard in both specs. The class as it stands is just not very fun at all. I was starting to have bad flashbacks to EverQuest and mana regen. As was also mentioned, the feats pigeonhole us into using X amount of encounter powers and at-wills, which just isn't fun. I tried the method you suggested, that some powers were just powerful enough on their own to not need to feats. If that's the case what really is the point of even having feats at all? I tried it going outside the box as was suggested, it doesn't work, it is not fun. I felt as if the paladin class worked its best when abilities were taken that work with the feats, I.E. the feeling of being pigeonholed.

    As a casual I'll probably disappear from the game entirely if this update doesn't change.

    It's my understanding the new combat system is closely related to how it is done on the Champions combat tables. Read as: Boring, drawn out and at wills being mostly useless against mobs. I can tell you I am a whale at Neverwinter and this whole thing has pretty much killed the game for me. Not another penny.

    I don't mind dropping money when what I am doing is fun and exciting, but as I pointed out in another post here, spamming at wills over and over again whist waiting for cool downs is no fun. It boring, boring, boring.
    Well, in particular if you're a Justicar paladin, you can regenerate divinity by blocking, so you can use your encounter powers more often. We're not aiming to slow down combat significantly for normative play. (That being said, we are definitely looking to slow down combat when compared with 4 support 1 DPS, optimal parties of live.)

    We're considering making adjustments to at-wills, but as I said in the fighter thread, if we tilt the damage of at-wills up, just know that it does mean we will be narrowing the gap between someone skillfully using their powers and someone just holding down their left mouse button.

    We'd like to give people time to soak in the new changes, it takes some getting used to, but as a few posters who have been playing a lot, or played in the closed beta will tell you, the changes can grow on you. Either way, we'll be making changes in the coming weeks and dealing with all the frustrating bugs you've likely been running into.
  • yppo#1635 yppo Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    After finishing the Undermountain campaign I want to give you my feedback on the new paladin.

    My overall feeling on the gameplay is that it got really slow and the feeling of action the last mods had is gone.

    At will powers feel really underpowered. Only in combination with sacred weapon they are kind of useful. I almost never used them and instead hid behind my shield waiting for divinity to build up so I could use the next encounter and deal some dmg. The buildup for divinity is way to low in most normal situations. I have not really tried any endgame dungeons yet. It might be different there.

    I would suggest increasing damage of at will powers by a factor of 2 and increase their rate of divinity build-up by at least factor 2.

    The class feats(paragons) are really unimpressive. Wouldn't feel a difference if I didin't choose many of them.
    Class features aka auras are to 50% useless. A small effect for 10secs after using a daily power? That would have been ok with mod15 AP-buildup. But with the decreased buildup I can use a daily power maybe once a minute in normal play and maybe once every 30s in groups.
    The new tab-power Divine Palisade feels and probably is absolutly useless. 10% damage reduction for allies if they stand behind it? Might only work against something stationary like a dragons breath. And honestly, better to just move out of such an attack to begin with...

    Holding aggro against players or even pets takes some practice and actually requires some effort now. This is a good thing but will be disliked by lots of more casual players. In general, you have to be much more aware of what the enemies around you are doing and when to raise your shield and when you can lower it to use a power.
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    i wasnt gonna give feedback becouse i think the changes are trash but screw it, i love the game so i gave it a shot... and another one and another..... and another.

    1 We are paladin, give us buffs. dont have to be strong, right now my pet is better buffer then me, 10% debuff > 0 % debuff.
    2 Burning Light chargeup doesnt do anything
    3 Divination generation sucks, make our ATWILLS generate some ( not much ). Running into dmg just to get some divinity is silly.
    4 Divine touch and Divine shelter are the same thing, change 1 of them.
    5 Rework auras, they are useless.
    6 Make radiant charge prone enemies, it just feels weird that it doesnt do that.
    7 Divine barrier in reality will be used only on self, make it cost less. its bad.
    8 Shield of faith makes allies take 5% less dmg, seriously ?
    9 Remove this silly 30% dmg debuff on justicar, why does tank spec deals less dmg then healing spec? due to div gain? fix the div gain issue and remove the debuff.
    10 Add some encounters that dont cost divinity, right now its divinity or useless
    11 Feats...... they are sooo bad, no choices whatsoever, and no impact. make them be relevant.
    12 Make animation canceling with encounters relevant again, it doesnt work very well with healing encounters.
    13 Justicars Charge states that it increases power by incoming damage ( old prot mechanic ).
    14 DJ can be wasted if stunned at the end or perfectly timed shift, ( old bug but now daily is MUCH more important so please fix )
    those are my 2 cents, for now.


    edit.
    Pe clearn in the tooltips. Explain how much HP shield has for both Justicar and Oathsomething. And give math behind it,
    example Justicar shield is 150% of max hp, oathsomething is 100% of max hp.
  • lipbulllipbull Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Hi asterdahl, i reskilled my pala but "nothing else matters" pls take a look at this log:

    Truck No. 1
    [Kampf (Allein)] Borstenspinne fügt Charakter mit „Giftspucken“ 922286 (1105829)

    Truck No. 2
    [Kampf (Allein)] Borstenspinne fügt Charakter mit „Giftspucken“ 1010393 (1145882)

    My Defense:
    [Kampf (Allein)] Charakter fügt Schwertspinne mit „Bronzeholz-Waffe“ 43 (39) Arkanschaden
    [Kampf (Allein)] Eure Kraft „Binding Oath“ gewährt Euch 100 Trefferpunkte.

    We cannot do any Damage - only one is smite but during do it the spider or all other mobs kills you immideately or 1shot you
    in my case i do unbelievable 43 Damage and regain 100 tp and taken 2 Million Damage

    See my bo gave me "100 tp"
    See my weapon do unbelievable "43" Damage

    Thats awsome for very Little/ entire Mobs i think :) - i have to use 10 - 20 scrolls to do the spider quest

    and i don´t have time to tank or heal - im just run away from Mobs, but they are 2fast4me^^

    theres st wrong in your Formula i think :) and why should we aggro the Mobs e.g. with templars wrath if we cant tank them at all. I myself am not able to tank/heal or do the right damage.

    My Trickser, Warlock and Guardian Fighter runs very well to this quest... (no death but all toons have to reskill their attributes i think)

    Greets, ObelX


    Post edited by lipbull on
  • impek#5359 impek Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I spent couple of hours on preview and i would love to give some feedback but, honestly i refuse to play my paladin anymore. You changed and destroyed everything that make him unique. I'm talking specialy about temporaryHP and the possibilities it gave. If i wanted to play a class thats sits behind a shield 70% of the time i would choose GF. I looked at the power/feat tab and to be honest there is nothing there that is interesting. First time in my 3 years playtime i dont care which power or feat i take. They are all just as useless. In terms of survival in undermountain, i dont have that problem but 15 minutes there and i had enough.
    I loved temphp on may paladin and the playstyle that it enabled. I played mostly that character and now it's destroyed. This class is not fun anymore, and if something is not fun i dont bother with it. If it gose live as it is now (without temphp and with that boring useless skills) it's the end of paladin for me.
  • ilithynilithyn Member Posts: 452 Arc User

    I spent couple of hours on preview and i would love to give some feedback but, honestly i refuse to play my paladin anymore. You changed and destroyed everything that make him unique. I'm talking specialy about temporaryHP and the possibilities it gave. If i wanted to play a class thats sits behind a shield 70% of the time i would choose GF. I looked at the power/feat tab and to be honest there is nothing there that is interesting. First time in my 3 years playtime i dont care which power or feat i take. They are all just as useless. In terms of survival in undermountain, i dont have that problem but 15 minutes there and i had enough.
    I loved temphp on may paladin and the playstyle that it enabled. I played mostly that character and now it's destroyed. This class is not fun anymore, and if something is not fun i dont bother with it. If it gose live as it is now (without temphp and with that boring useless skills) it's the end of paladin for me.

    Not to mention that GF's at least can still do things while cowering behind the shield, all OPs can do is stand there and twiddle their thumbs. Which gets incredibly boring very quickly. The only reason there's still any cause for OPs being in the game is that GF is still completely fubar, but when/if that gets fixed OP will definitely be the inferior tank and a far more boring play experience. This mod has indeed wrecked everything that made the OP a different tanking experience which was what a lot of OP tanks enjoyed about it, now it's a subpar, generic tank, with nothing at all to commend it.

    Then there's the constant micro managament of divinity. Thanks for turning me from a tank who's main job is mob management, into an accountant which main just is juggling figures (or in this case divinity bar). If I wanted to do accounting simulation there's a few sim games I could go play, I sure as hell wouldn't want to do it in an MMO.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    leonidrex said:

    i wasnt gonna give feedback becouse i think the changes are trash but screw it, i love the game so i gave it a shot... and another one and another..... and another.

    1 We are paladin, give us buffs. dont have to be strong, right now my pet is better buffer then me, 10% debuff > 0 % debuff.
    2 Burning Light chargeup doesnt do anything
    3 Divination generation sucks, make our ATWILLS generate some ( not much ). Running into dmg just to get some divinity is silly.
    4 Divine touch and Divine shelter are the same thing, change 1 of them.
    5 Rework auras, they are useless.
    6 Make radiant charge prone enemies, it just feels weird that it doesnt do that.
    7 Divine barrier in reality will be used only on self, make it cost less. its bad.
    8 Shield of faith makes allies take 5% less dmg, seriously ?
    9 Remove this silly 30% dmg debuff on justicar, why does tank spec deals less dmg then healing spec? due to div gain? fix the div gain issue and remove the debuff.
    10 Add some encounters that dont cost divinity, right now its divinity or useless
    11 Feats...... they are sooo bad, no choices whatsoever, and no impact. make them be relevant.
    12 Make animation canceling with encounters relevant again, it doesnt work very well with healing encounters.
    13 Justicars Charge states that it increases power by incoming damage ( old prot mechanic ).
    14 DJ can be wasted if stunned at the end or perfectly timed shift, ( old bug but now daily is MUCH more important so please fix )
    those are my 2 cents, for now.


    edit.
    Pe clearn in the tooltips. Explain how much HP shield has for both Justicar and Oathsomething. And give math behind it,
    example Justicar shield is 150% of max hp, oathsomething is 100% of max hp.

    Thank you for taking the time to post the feedback in spite of your frustrations! I did read all of your feedback, but I wanted to take a little time to respond to a few things.

    I know that people are pretty unhappy with how auras work currently, so I'm going to try to look at what can be done with those. On the topic of Divine Touch vs. Divine Shelter, they are not the same thing. One is targeted on a small area, and hits hard. The other hits for less, but hits all allies in a huge radius, and costs more. I understand the feedback, but please try them out in group play a bit before determining whether or not they feel identical.

    In regards to Radiant Charge not proning the enemy, I will likely be adding some small CC element to this power, as I also agree that it feels odd. As for encounters that do not cost divinity, they do exist, especially for Justicar, or are you specifically talking about Oathkeeper? They also exist, but they are generally not direct healing, as those powers are intentionally gated behind divinity.

    I do hope you continue to watch the adjustments on preview and send your feedback, I appreciate it!
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    lipbull said:

    Hi asterdahl, i reskilled my pala but "nothing else matters" pls take a look at this log:

    Truck No. 1
    [Kampf (Allein)] Borstenspinne fügt Charakter mit „Giftspucken“ 922286 (1105829)

    Truck No. 2
    [Kampf (Allein)] Borstenspinne fügt Charakter mit „Giftspucken“ 1010393 (1145882)

    My Defense:
    [Kampf (Allein)] Charakter fügt Schwertspinne mit „Bronzeholz-Waffe“ 43 (39) Arkanschaden
    [Kampf (Allein)] Eure Kraft „Binding Oath“ gewährt Euch 100 Trefferpunkte.

    We cannot do any Damage - only one is smite but during do it the spider or all other mobs kills you immideately or 1shot you
    in my case i do unbelievable 43 Damage and regain 100 tp and taken 2 Million Damage

    See my bo gave me "100 tp"
    See my weapon do unbelievable "43" Damage

    Thats awsome for very Little/ entire Mobs i think :) - i have to use 10 - 20 scrolls to do the spider quest

    and i don´t have time to tank or heal - im just run away from Mobs, but they are 2fast4me^^

    theres st wrong in your Formula i think :)

    My Trickser, Warlock and Guardian Fighter runs very well to this quest... (no death but all toons have to reskill their attributes i think)

    Greets, ObelX


    There is something bizarre going on with those spiders. We'll be looking into it.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    @asterdahl. I'll give more feedback on the paladin in a later post but I wanted to ask a question. Why does Divine Fulmination (the peak Oathkeeper at-will) have a longer cast time (1.46s) and does less damage than Smite (our shared encounter)? The animation for it is a little ridiculous. It looks like I'm fishing for folks up in Lonelywood rather than sending foes screaming into the Abyss. If its meant to simply be used at range vice close in, would you consider giving it bane's old animation of the double slash? That last was a minor issue but the casting time for Divine Fulmination really needs to be looked at, especially if the damage isn't significantly greater than our other at-wills for Oathkeeper. My two coppers. More feedback to follow and thanks for the responses to other poster's questions. It makes this transition a bit easier.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
    Shizlee Miliskeera, Lvl 70 DC - Divine Oracle (Right.)/Anoited Champion (Faith.)
    Finithey Miliskeera, Lvl 70 HR - Stormwarden (Combat)/Pathfinder (Trapper)
    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
    Shiarrael e'Tal'Aura t'Charvon, LvL 60, Rom Sci
    S'aana ir'Virinat t'Charvon, Lvl 60, Rom Eng
    T'Lyra, LvL 60, Fed, Vul Sci
    Ta'el, Lvl 60, Rom Tac
  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer
    edited March 2019

    @asterdahl. I'll give more feedback on the paladin in a later post but I wanted to ask a question. Why does Divine Fulmination (the peak Oathkeeper at-will) have a longer cast time (1.46s) and does less damage than Smite (our shared encounter)? The animation for it is a little ridiculous. It looks like I'm fishing for folks up in Lonelywood rather than sending foes screaming into the Abyss. If its meant to simply be used at range vice close in, would you consider giving it bane's old animation of the double slash? That last was a minor issue but the casting time for Divine Fulmination really needs to be looked at, especially if the damage isn't significantly greater than our other at-wills for Oathkeeper. My two coppers. More feedback to follow and thanks for the responses to other poster's questions. It makes this transition a bit easier.

    I'm confused at your initial question. Smite does significantly more damage than Divine Fulmination because it is an encounter power and costs significant divinity. Divine Fulmination is something you can use to deal damage at a range, even when are out of divinity, or more likely, conserving it to use healing spells in group play. That's the role of divine fulmination.

    It is a very strong at-will, in terms of damage dealt—because of how slow it is. I urge you to give it a try in group play, it is mostly meant to ensure that Oathkeeper is not at a disadvantage in fights where its best for the healer to stay at a range. That being said, it certainly may be best to use valorous strike in solo play, since you can more easily move between strikes.
  • lipbulllipbull Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Hi asterdahl,

    thx for reply - if you need further informations of my toon let me know it.
    The Damage against us is horrible...but the Damage we are make is much more horrible cause it takes too long to beat a mob like in the entire quest. O.K. im a tank and have less outgoing damage but in fact my Pally never died in entire quests of a new mod.
    In this mod we are the only ones with no Damage path and have to tank or heal. Thats ok in general but than let us heal or taken damage. The shield Looks awsome but thats it and as my mates tell you...its useless.

    Maybe my other Question is how we can do something solo here if we can´t do Damage and are only here to tank or heal?

    And did you really invite a real Paladin to your alpha-testing?

    Thx and greets, ObelX
  • vincentr6669vincentr6669 Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    No more Aura of Courage, no more Aura of Wisdom, no more Powershare, no more Temporary HP, no more Circle of Power for tankadin, no more Divine Protector affecting all party members, no more Burning Light multi-hit after being fully charged... What they've done to you my loved one?
  • lipbulllipbull Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    Yes you´re true buddy - and heres my last question for tomorrow...
    If it goes online, is there a chance to swap my char into another toon?
    Maybe you do unbelievable things in this mod and i think everybody should decide if he want to be a paladin or not.
    Greets, ObelX
  • antok500#4237 antok500 Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    How about a free class re-roll?
  • lipbulllipbull Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    yes, thats what im aiming for - you change the whole gameplay, so let us decide what char we want to be.
    In case of this and if it goes live in this way i didnt see a future for a paladin.
    All toons needs an attribut reroll so you can do all with one class reroll i think.
  • impek#5359 impek Member Posts: 9 Arc User

    How about a free class re-roll?

    to what?
    destroyed combat hr? useless DC? squishy gwf or gf that can't hold aggro?
    :(
  • lipbulllipbull Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    hi impek - maybe you didnt play a paladin - theres a big change for all classes and every class has a problem but look at the posts below - the paladin now is useless. we hope that it will be fixed but if not theres no reason to play a paladin at all.
    Greetz, ObelX
  • impek#5359 impek Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    lipbull said:

    hi impek - maybe you didnt play a paladin - theres a big change for all classes and every class has a problem but look at the posts below - the paladin now is useless. we hope that it will be fixed but if not theres no reason to play a paladin at all.
    Greetz, ObelX

    paladin is my main character which I play from 2016
  • lipbulllipbull Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    kk - than you know what im aiming for - think if it gives rerolls for paladin you didnt see a paladin in this game no more if mod 16 goes live like that. But anyhow i think none of the other classes (me involved with toons of all) want to change cause except of a little bit adjustment theire fine.
    Greetz, ObelX
  • impek#5359 impek Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I don't think cryptic is gona change anything. It's too late and they made too many changes to just undo it.
    I was happy when they announced mod 16, new skills, new levels, new campaign.
    And then i logged to preview and saw my paladin wchih wasn't a paladin anymore but some poor copy of the gf...
  • yeenoghu#2009 yeenoghu Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Might be due requiring some time getting used to it or not. Building divinity on Justicar seems slower than for the Oathkeeper. As an Oathkeeper you can cast circle of protection, take the feat that reduces smite's divinity cost, tab and you have a pretty stand-forward divinity that lasts longer. Which, for PVE DPS is much better and faster than the Justicar trying to solo or do the PVE content.

    For Justicar, even though divinity seems to build nicely when you block, it feels a bit weird to be like a porkpine that might end up building deflect so you can keep divinity charged for either a smite (and in dungeon to cast vow or other divinity consuming encounters to keep aggro). Wouldn't be better to give the Justicar either a way to build up divinity at a steady pace like the Oathkeeper as well?

    I mean, I can keep the shield up and take no damage but it gets a bit 'GF' like to do a dungeon with shield up so I can wait divinity to charge and the time the proper time to use the powers without risking getting a blow that might interrupt the ability. Isn't there any feat or alike it can be done to help in that regard? Because as a Justicar, divinity regenerating faster only if it's 75% above feels like what I'm expected to do is SMITE-block-SMITE-block (Edit: using Divine challenger aura) and so to keep divinity and damage distribution balanced. I mean, even if I was to spend divinity only in Templar's Wrath to keep aggro (since vow's cd is big), it pains a bit the fact Paladin's encounters have a big cooldown and no way to reduce it like before.

    Furthermore, wouldn't be better that Relentess Avenger affected more than one target and created aggro as well? Or Binding Oath did allowed for some divinity restoration instead stamina? (Edit: Maybe your God is proud to see you defend your companions and gives a little blessing.)

    As I said, once one gets used to new rotations and playstyle things will hopefully be normal again but so far, it feels like Oathkeeper is benefitting more from the divinity (Edit: and useful feats) because in a dungeon, with the aggro you get to build up divinity, you pretty much have to be careful when to use divinity consuming powers.

    (Edit: Last but not least, can't Shielding Strike keep the barrier it would create. About the auras, any way/hope to get something aura of wisdom back or make Paladin auras not so about using your dailies to get an actual benefit? I mean, an aura should theorically be something always active and not requiring a condition to take place. I did notice the compusure aura for the Justicar but still feels forced to have to use one aura just for it rather than buff/protect my allies)


  • lipbulllipbull Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 46 Arc User
    yes - and thats why we are here and do this things - we help to eleminate Errors ingame and we hope that all is fixed asap.
    If anyone reproduce the Errors were fine that the devs fix it. Thats my hope and i believe in that cause they do it in the past.
    This thread is made for it - so post Errors etc. if you can.

    Greetz, ObelX
  • leonidrexleonidrex Member Posts: 401 Arc User
    i went in to play little bit more but i cont force myself to do it anymore, gameplay is so HAMSTER boring its unbelivable.
  • hercules125hercules125 Member Posts: 427 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I played a bit with my OP in Barovia yesterday.

    Feedback:
    1. Thematically, you've changed my OP from a magical tank into what feels like a plain jane... Guardian Fighter.

    2. I've lost CoP, which visually looks impressive and works very well in groups, and gained not a lot.

    3. The directional shield power, looks cool, but is not going to work in most dungeon situations, where you have to keep moving. A stationary character is usually dead. Try using that shield on the hill in FBI...

    4. Going to try some more power combinations, but my survivability appears to be way down. Both my HR and DC had a much better time of it against the same mobs.
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