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Excuse me, I am trying to tinker with my build here

vigor#8801 vigor Posts: 132Member Arc User
Last night, I decided to use my first retraining token ever. I figured, I have learned the game enough I should be able to improve myself by revisiting my newb decisions.

After an hour of doing a lot of pointless stuff in order to change a few things... (ok I will stop to explain that) I had to re-spend all of my power points! I am maxed out on power points! That alone was a major chore. Then to go through every campaign and choose every boon over.... (end explanation) After changing a few things I go do something I did over and over and over only 2 days earlier. I knew what I should expect from that thing. Only, when I did it this time it was taking me 125% as long...

Could I have messed up my build choices THAT bad?

I went and did the thing with another char that I had done the thing over and over and over with 2 days earlier. It seems my build changes were not the ONLY problem. That character was taking about 120% as long to do the thing.

The only way that could happen is if the devs have been tinkering. The 2nd char was not changed AT ALL.

In literature there is a concept known as, "the willing suspension of disbelief". When a reader reads a novel, they may realize that goblins don't exist but they will allow themselves to get lost in a story about goblins for the sake of enjoyment. The author wants to make the whole story of goblins seem possible. They want the reader to get lost in the story. They don't want logical flaws reminding the reader that this is a fiction created by some guy who lives in the next town. Ideally, the reader should FORGET they are even reading a book. This is the difference between selling a lot of books and going to work at mcdonalds.

A good author does not, on page 365, state that the name and address of a character you have been reading about for a long time has been changed to something else because in the next chapter they are going to need to have different parameters to make the story work out.

A good author does not make a cameo photo of themself in the middle of a climactic scene and ask, "do I look good in green?"

A good author should remain invisible to the reader until the book is over.

A good author does carefully consider how all of the various story pieces fit together BEFORE putting the book on the shelf.

A good author does not get scared when you approach the last chapter and demand that you go read all 1200 pages of the dictionary before you may see the last chapter.

A good author does not demand you read the first book 1000 times before you can read the sequel.

A good book might get read over and over until the pages wear out.

I want to get lost in the game. I can't do that because there are so many flaws and so many reminders that there is a group of people who do not want me to reach the end of this book. There are so many changes that I feel paralyzed not knowing what to do. My success or failure doesn't seem to depend on the decisions I make but rather on the decisions the local gods and they can't even make up their own minds. I can only think of one person in this world who is as fickle as the developers here.

If you want a good game. Make no changes at all besides changes made during new releases. If you make a mistake, learn from it and make adjustments in future content UNLESS a change is absolutely necessary. i.e. bug fixes. You have some talented people working for you. Don't waste their time and effort. Don't be one of the many games that show a lot of potential but fail to be complete.

There are games I played for 10 years and paid for for 10 years without the developers ever attempting to keep me trapped there. There are games I played for 10 years where I never felt it necessary to contact them or go to their forum to tell them what they are doing wrong.

Comments

  • vigor#8801 vigor Posts: 132Member Arc User
    2 more

    people don't rush to finish a good book.

    a good author doesn't need to shower its readers with gifts to maintain their attention.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,526Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator
    Good news, Power Points are going away in M16. I'm not sure what other problems you are having, because you kinda went off on a tangent about books. But at least it won't take you forever to do your powers when M16 launches.
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  • tazz4nowtazz4now Posts: 166Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I ran into this awhile back (when there was a forced reset on my character), I had a screenshot of everything and when I repicked the same things, my character didn't seem to play the same way, so my strategy (that worked well for me) was to pick the basics, go to Sharandar and play, as I saw what I was lacking in, I picked some boons, powers and feats, then went to WOD and did the same thing, it took me awhile but I actually had a better playing and moving, harder hitting character by the time I was done and since then haven't changed anything, I am planning to do the same when mod 16 hits, since there will be so many changes done, I know there is probably a better and faster way to do this, it worked for me......

    just my 2 cents
  • vigor#8801 vigor Posts: 132Member Arc User
    the "tangent" was more the point of the post than the char problems.

    The devs change things all of the time and when they do I don't know if I did something or if my companion died or what the problem is so then I have to go through all of my stuff to see if i might have messed anything up.

    Playing this game is like cooking soup while some invisible person adds ingredients and takes them away. Or playing chess with a cat moving your pieces around.

    This change this weekend just happened to be at an incredibly bad time for me. I don't know how to make adjustments now. My baseline was destroyed. My char could be better, yet is performing worse.

    I could fill a whole thread with changes they have made, and how i know they made them. (I am exaggerating here, I doubt there is any limit to the number of posts in a thread) i.e. QM bag nerf last week.

    To make good decisions and good adjustments, I need consistency. I need a foundation not made of sand.
  • vigor#8801 vigor Posts: 132Member Arc User
    tazz4now said:

    I ran into this awhile back (when there was a forced reset on my character), I had a screenshot of everything and when I repicked the same things, my character didn't seem to play the same way, so my strategy (that worked well for me) was to pick the basics, go to Sharandar and play, as I saw what I was lacking in, I picked some boons, powers and feats, then went to WOD and did the same thing, it took me awhile but I actually had a better playing and moving, harder hitting character by the time I was done and since then haven't changed anything, I am planning to do the same when mod 16 hits, since there will be so many changes done, I know there is probably a better and faster way to do this, it worked for me......

    just my 2 cents

    thanks for that advice, that is basically how I did it the first time as boons came in 1 at a time. The problem is that would take a lot of time. Weeks? If what you say is true that means there is a huge horrible bug in the system. I didn't take a screenshot. I didn't think there was any possible way I could not improve just by making all of those decisions again.
  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Posts: 663Member Arc User
    It is sort of pointless to tinker with builds at this time. In a few weeks we get mod 16, and then everything starts from scratch build-wise.

    Just sit tight, and join the big how-do-I-build-my-character uproar when mod 16 launches :)

    Or jump on Test server when it opens to get a head start.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,710Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited February 25
    You really picked the worst time to re-spec. Whatever you did (right or wrong) will be irrelevant in mod 16. Whatever you knew, whatever muscle memory timing you have will need to be revisited in mod 16. Every character will need to re-spec in mod 16.
  • kvetkvet Posts: 2,669Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I would strongly advice against anyone spending any resources on anything build related right now. Just farm AD and hold onto it, same with Zen and any other currencies you might have other than maybe event stuff. Don't respec, don't create new toons yet, don't drop a ton of marks on enchantment upgrades, etc... just save all your resources until you know what m16 is all about. Just the changes they've announced already should be enough to tell you that the game is changing radically in a matter of weeks... probably the biggest set of changes to the game ever. So... just be patient until you know the full extent of what's coming.
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Posts: 74Member Arc User
    If it's a full respec you need to up everything again, stats, boons, feats, powers. I'd had to guess but maybe you picked a wrong feat, or don't have one of the best yellow power / passive feats active which perhaps you previously did. This can easily make you lose more then 1/4 of your DPS.

    It's usually better to find a good build online and copypaste it unless you're a dedicated theory crafter. There are too many misleading tooltips and trap feats (like CWs increased damage to targets without chill when you literally apply chill to everything by just sneezing) in this game.
    kreatyve said:

    Good news, Power Points are going away in M16. I'm not sure what other problems you are having, because you kinda went off on a tangent about books. But at least it won't take you forever to do your powers when M16 launches.

    It seems as if he was either forced to do a complete respec or accidentally choose a complete respec instead of the partial ones (which allow for example to only change feats, or boons for one specific campaign) which made one of his characters noticeable weaker then before.
  • vigor#8801 vigor Posts: 132Member Arc User

    If it's a full respec you need to up everything again, stats, boons, feats, powers. I'd had to guess but maybe you picked a wrong feat, or don't have one of the best yellow power / passive feats active which perhaps you previously did. This can easily make you lose more then 1/4 of your DPS.

    It's usually better to find a good build online and copypaste it unless you're a dedicated theory crafter. There are too many misleading tooltips and trap feats (like CWs increased damage to targets without chill when you literally apply chill to everything by just sneezing) in this game.

    kreatyve said:

    Good news, Power Points are going away in M16. I'm not sure what other problems you are having, because you kinda went off on a tangent about books. But at least it won't take you forever to do your powers when M16 launches.

    It seems as if he was either forced to do a complete respec or accidentally choose a complete respec instead of the partial ones (which allow for example to only change feats, or boons for one specific campaign) which made one of his characters noticeable weaker then before.
    you are missing the point here. The whole post is about the devs constantly changing things, not "i need help with my build". I was doing testing, trying to improve my char when the devs decided to change the thing I was using for testing.

    Finding a build online is not playing the game. Doing that is for people who don't really want to play the game they just want to be noticed on the scoreboard. Besides, moments after any online BIS build is released it is likely to be out of date because the devs constantly change things. Even then, you need a lot more than a build, you need to learn to play your build. Even if someone is always highest on the scoreboard, it does not mean they have the best build. There are a lot of other factors. i.e. server connection is probably amongst the biggest factors. For me, I lag, so I have to have a build that does well in spite of it. Another big factor is equipment quality. The top end build is very likely to NOT BE GOOD if you have lousy equipment. Most online builds are geared for IL 17000 chars. They naturally do a lot of damage because of all of their stats, so they benefit from multipliers more than anything else. A low stat character benefits more from flat damage.

    Yes, misleading tooltips are a big problem. I sometimes ignore the tooltips and just mess around with various things until I understand how they work. Even if something looks amazing on paper, it might still be terrible. i.e. wheel of elements. 30% damage! wow! except using it is like planning a wedding. In the time spent trying to get the fire you could have done a bunch of things. Its usefulness is somewhat dependent on class/build. I.e. a gwf can throw together so many self buffs so quickly planning the wedding might actually result in a climax worth the time and effort. Cast times are a big factor. A 5% buff that slows you down is not worth it most of the time. Sometimes powers have effects that are simply not listed. Sometimes powers make great use of a particular weapon enchant where the same enchant is awful for other powers. Sometimes you need a feat to trigger some great aspect of a power. Then, while you are loving the results the devs might nerf the feat. i.e. At the turn of the last module, HR's controls were working great and improving damage, lately they haven't been working at all. The controls don't seem to effect anything or don't effect anything long enough that I can profit from it. When I decided to tinker, it was because I wanted that back. I thought if I could buff the controls they might start working the way they were. Maybe they have maybe they haven't. It is likely to be zone dependent. I haven't played HR since my botched testing.
  • akemnosakemnos Posts: 452Member Arc User
    The thing is the devs don't make changes daily to the game files as that would require constant updating. There would have been a server downtime on Thursday but if your build was working fine on Friday and Saturday and then suddenly after the respec it was not working as well on Sunday than you accidentally messed something up.

    I do realize that the devs have messed up a lot of things unintentionally with patches before but again nothing would have changed over the weekend while you were changing your character.

    As Aerhythia said take another look at your choices. it is likely you have a power or feat chosen incorrectly, or even the wrong companion summoned or added that is likely affecting your build.
  • kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Posts: 542Member Arc User
    OP - my advice is to stop the respec-ing for now and save them up.

    Any tweaking knowledge you gain from testing on a current state build is doomed to immediate irrelevance when Mod 16 drops.



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