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Cheap Mod 15 Buff-Build.

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  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 180Member Arc User
    edited January 24
    wdj40 said:

    typo#6563 said:

    BTW, it seems Aspect of the Pack is broken in Mod 15. The passive is now no longer providing Combat Advantage. DPS roles should still run Aspect of the Pack with the Offhand Artifact Power because it still provides a consistent up to +8% damage bonus. But for a Buff HR, CA would be the reason to use the passive and, since it is now broken, there is not much point using it until it is fixed.

    I honestly do not know where you get this information from and I wish you would test it before posting something.

    I have checked Aspect of the Pack before and after todays patch and it works fine. Go up to a training dummy with your Companion and equip Pack. You see the Blue circle around each of the dummies when you are near your companion... Thats Combat Advantage.

    Now un-equip Pack and you see the circles are now just a single bar showing you where you need to stand to get CA. Another good way to see is the Tiger Companion attacks faster and uses his Debuff when he has CA.
    It is actually a topic of wide spread discussion across multiple HR forums. I am hardly the first person to talk about it. It's possible it is only specific to the console release of Mod 15. It's also possible it was ninja fixed with the patch. The patch notes do not mention a fix, but wouldn't be the first time a fix was snuck in. But it was broken. I'll check it again tonight.
  • wdj40wdj40 Posts: 1,954Member Arc User
    typo#6563 said:

    wdj40 said:

    typo#6563 said:

    BTW, it seems Aspect of the Pack is broken in Mod 15. The passive is now no longer providing Combat Advantage. DPS roles should still run Aspect of the Pack with the Offhand Artifact Power because it still provides a consistent up to +8% damage bonus. But for a Buff HR, CA would be the reason to use the passive and, since it is now broken, there is not much point using it until it is fixed.

    I honestly do not know where you get this information from and I wish you would test it before posting something.

    I have checked Aspect of the Pack before and after todays patch and it works fine. Go up to a training dummy with your Companion and equip Pack. You see the Blue circle around each of the dummies when you are near your companion... Thats Combat Advantage.

    Now un-equip Pack and you see the circles are now just a single bar showing you where you need to stand to get CA. Another good way to see is the Tiger Companion attacks faster and uses his Debuff when he has CA.
    It is actually a topic of wide spread discussion across multiple HR forums. I am hardly the first person to talk about it. It's possible it is only specific to the console release of Mod 15. It's also possible it was ninja fixed with the patch. The patch notes do not mention a fix, but wouldn't be the first time a fix was snuck in. But it was broken. I'll check it again tonight.
    Nope I tested it this morning before the patch and I tested it after in case something broke. It is working.

    I have looked up the PC and Console forums and there is no recent bug report about it being broken. As far as I can tell it was fixed a long time ago.

    Actually I remember testing it in 3 mods in a row just in case.. have to admit i had not tested it this mod until I saw your post, so did it this morning and this evening. Also tested it on enemies not just dummies and it works.
    Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only
    Alts :
    Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)

    Member of Q-Snipe
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 180Member Arc User
    edited January 25
    @wdj40 It has been discussed extensively in the HR discussion groups on Facebook and Discord. As I said, it might have been console only. There were a number of other console specific bugs recently. Anyway, it really was broken and this is honestly not up for debate. Quite a few HRs were discussing it and I assure you it was real. But I can also say that it does look like it has now been fixed per that patch today. What else can I say? I do know what you mean though about it having been broken in the past too.
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
  • ashbury#6333 ashbury Posts: 24Member Arc User
    Hi everyone. I'm hoping @jonkoca or @typo#6563 can post a video of running this. I main a HR for several years now first time trying a pure buff build. Mine is very similar to jonkoca's build and where could down reduction comes from feats ours are exactly the same. Currently I have 23000 recovery. I dont hit 4 second constant uptime. When cavalrys warning and/or artificers persuasion buffs are up it seems very close but I dont see how to get it to 100% up time on longstriders. Maybe with more recovery?
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,446Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited January 26
    Stand far enough away for Lss to proc,

    Lss, disruptive, third buff (if short animation eg. Fox), 1x atwill (or 2x if no third buff), switch stance, melee x1, hawkeye, switch stance, repeat.

    That works for me and my recovery is about 20k and a bit. You are running with shepherds mount bonus yes..? Don't know if it makes a difference to cooldowns.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • ashbury#6333 ashbury Posts: 24Member Arc User
    Thanks @jonkoca I had the rotation off. That helps. I need to practice this rotation. A crude timing of several rotations and my quickest was 4.6 seconds. But I think I'd get faster with practice. More recovery would help with the melee cooldowns as well. If you could cut another second off you could get away without an at will. Or at the very least make the rotation a little more forgiving if you did make a mistake haha. Thanks for the help again. I'm gonna go run this in a pug and see what happens 🙂
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 180Member Arc User
    edited January 27
    @ashbury#6333 A few things to keep in mind...

    It's going to be easier to achieve 100% uptime when you are in a party, due to how the tank and DC can help your cooldowns.

    When practicing at the dummies, mostly you want to focus on becoming more fluid with the rotations. By yourself at the dummies, you may or may not be able to exactly hit 100% uptime. But don't let that discourage you. You'll definitely do better in the party.

    Reaching the necessary cooldowns is really only part of the challenge. A player must also be able to press the buttons fast enough without making frequent mistakes. So practice, practice, practice.

    The reason I personally like this type of hybrid build over simply playing trapper is just a mathematical cooldown advantage from Bottomless Quiver. Of course if a dungeon run goes well and the party buffs all happen like they should, that extra edge may not be necessary. But a hybrid does have that little edge for when things go off the rails.

    My view is a buffer should provide buffs, not excuses. So when your main DPS hits 1 million or 11 million damage, you want your buffs to be up for that. But if the DC fell off an edge, or who knows what else happens, whether you just fired LSS or instead fired a blank may depend on how strong your own personal cooldown capabilities are. This might not be a frequent problem to face, but mishaps do happen.When it's clutch time, it's really nice to be able to deliver.

    Anyway, I am going to try recording a video demonstration with a solid group. No clutch performance, just a basic smooth run. I hope.
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 180Member Arc User
    edited January 27
    I was thinking, other potential options for Buff HRs could include:

    Stormwarden Combat HRs can slot in LSS + Hawkeye + PG and run Aspect of the Pack and Stormstep Action with Forest Ghost. This might not have the advantage of Primal Instincts and you might have to run thru more of rotation (i.e. GW), but the upside would be a bit stronger secondary DPS than other buffers. It would also be a slight step down in DPS from a normal Combat rotation. I'm not quite sure how practical this would even be, but I think it would just really depend on the main DPS in the party. At least this wouldn't necessarily require a separate loadout, which might be preferable for some people who just don't want to use a loadout for a buffer.

    Pathfinder Trapper HRs can follow the exact same rotations as the Hybrid type builds. This might not have quite have as strong of cooldowns as a Hybrid, but it would provide some value to a party (in part because of Primal Instincts) and wouldn't require a separate loadout. Stacking a lot of recovery can make this an even better option as a buffer.

    Archery HRs are often Stormwarden because of Split the Sky and Electric Shot. Combining Bottomless Quiver with Stormstep Action would provide some very strong cooldowns. If running a neckpiece for 4% AP gain every 3 seconds, that would help to more frequently proc the SA passive. Secondary DPS could also be reasonably good. Added recovery could make this nearly as effective as a Trapper buffer.

    Hybrid HRs: If you really want to take buffing to the extreme, then the Hybrid build offers a "souped up hotrod" for buffing. By combining the cooldown feats for Trapper and Archery and then stacking recovery, you will gain cooldowns that are second to none among HRs. You may or may not need these extra RPMs for buffing, but should you find yourself in any clutch situations, you'll know you have that just a little more oomph available. The downside to this type of build is that it will have the lowest secondary DPS of any of the buffing options, but it will also have the strongest cooldown capability of any of them to maintain 100% uptime of buffs.

    Even though I did create a loadout for a hybrid, I might still run some of these other options too. None of these approaches are wrong. They are just tools and you can select the one that works best for the situation at hand. That said, I have enjoyed running a pure buffer HR. I don't mind once in while not having the DPS spotlight. A little variety in playstyle part of the time is personally just more exciting to me.

    I will just add that as far as DPS + Buffing, the philosophy of trying to add more damage as a buffer does lead to longer rotations which then lowers buff uptime. What is acceptable buff uptime or downtime is part of the decision an HR must make when deciding on the approach to take. Keeping in mind that the current meta is everyone supporting a single main DPS in 5 man content, I'd say the priority (for a support HR) should be on buffing in more serious groups. If an HR can buff 100% uptime as a Trapper, then they should be fine, but the Hybrid build will be the path of least resistance to achieving the highest uptime of buffs simply because of the stronger cooldown feats.
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
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