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It's time to take a look and act on adjusting the character level xp upwards.
grogthemagnif
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,651 Arc User
Back in "The Olden Days' (2013) when I went from level 1-60 I only had about 6 quests from Mt Hotenow and Whispering Caverns (and about 8 Dungeons) to finish after I made level 60. After Elemental Evil and raising the cap to level 70 I also had a few quests (and a few more Dungeons to finish) to finish after level 70.
And then came Tyranny/Well of Dragons adding content to multiple levels with no level cap increase. Now mod 15 (AI) adds new content to mutiple levels with no corresponding level caps.
Now it's time to add up the quest and Dungeon levels for each Mod and raise the caps where needed.Especially any Sub-level 70 content and expand he experience level caps so that a player can go from level 1-70 and not miss any of the lower level material excep on the first 1-2 level 70 campaigns.
Especially add higher xp caps for those zones that have boons and rework the Sgt Knox level 70 starter characters so their experience includes all the pre-level 70 content, experience and boons. This will give new level 1s a better path to level 70 (with boons) and the Sgt. Knox starter characters a chance to immediately contribute to the game and any Guild they would join.
And then came Tyranny/Well of Dragons adding content to multiple levels with no level cap increase. Now mod 15 (AI) adds new content to mutiple levels with no corresponding level caps.
Now it's time to add up the quest and Dungeon levels for each Mod and raise the caps where needed.Especially any Sub-level 70 content and expand he experience level caps so that a player can go from level 1-70 and not miss any of the lower level material excep on the first 1-2 level 70 campaigns.
Especially add higher xp caps for those zones that have boons and rework the Sgt Knox level 70 starter characters so their experience includes all the pre-level 70 content, experience and boons. This will give new level 1s a better path to level 70 (with boons) and the Sgt. Knox starter characters a chance to immediately contribute to the game and any Guild they would join.
1
Comments
We have Underdark & Maze that can be started both at 60, though 'some' quests can be challenging prior to 70. Yet Sharandar also is designed around 64-68. It be good to leave one Campaign or area at 71. Perhaps that is best done by increasing the Stronghold up from 70 to 71?
Still I think Skill Points can a little too quickly be fully earned by a new 70 within 2-5 weeks of starting a new Character. I wouldn't want to see them reduce the drop chances too much, yet overall I think some of the XP (overall still needs to be reduced) so I'd suggest a balanced approach to this:
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Elemental Evil [60-70] leveling area's -- Example: Spinward Rise
Pirri the Swift currently gives a mission (Returning the Pain) that awards 2363 XP more than Sharandar but it's a 67-69 area.
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Sharandar Weekly gives 1477 XP for Arcane Reservoir (Weekly), and 100 Feywild Sparks, 4500 rad, & gems.
╘ then remove XP from weekly similar to Ice Wind Pass, Well of Dragons: it's either (rad) or XP not both.
Sharandar Daily's remain at 1477 XP for Battle for Sharandar &/all perhaps fine XP for [64] First Gate.
Sharandar Arcane Reservoir also gives 1477 XP, in addition to (rad), and two campaign currencies & gems--remove the XP for this weekly.
… [66] Second Gate perhaps slightly increases,
… [68] Third perhaps the same XP as the Pirri the Swift mission in the 67-69 Elemental Evil area or similar.
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Underdark (60-70) Bruenor Battlehammer awards 5908 XP for Supporting the Factions should be reduced to 1789 XP.
╘ Ballad of Baphomet [remove XP] as it awards (rad) - more similar to Ice Wind Dale & Well of Dragons Weeklies.
...After all Maze Engine replay's only award 591 XP.
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Stronghold (70) - I'd welcome area increased to 71 fore sure.
Perhaps this is the one and single 71 area so it's XP should reside slightly above 2163 from Elemental Evil (Spinward).
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Dread Ring (72) Currently has Knox giving 1477 XP for Chamber of Horrors & 1477 for Red Wizard's (Weekly) + (rad) so again remove the XP.
...Celeste give a Daily quests like others for 1477 maybe they 'slightly' scaled up given [72] area to 2474 XP for example.
...Yet [Demon Hunting] Mission perhaps significantly reduced or give no XP similar to 'a few' weeklies that give (rad).
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Well of Dragons (73) area yet perhaps lower Armor Pen Requirements as next in Campaign Progression.
Reclaiming the Hoard (Weekly) currently gives no XP so why does Sharandar 'Arcane Reservoir Weekly give XP & rad?
Volatile Compound in Well of Dragon's also only gives 1477 perhaps increase to 2589 so net gain's close to balanced.
...Yet [Demon Hunting] Mission perhaps reduced or give no XP similar to 'a few' weeklies that give (rad).
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Storms Kings Thunder however perhaps (72-73) area maybe is perhaps noticeably reduced.
From giving 5908 XP to perhaps 2572 for each Daily
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Ice Wind Dale (72-73) then perhaps give more similar XP to SKT a slight increase from 1477 to 2639 XP.
...Yet [Demon Hunting] Mission perhaps significantly reduced or give no XP similar to 'a few' weeklies that give (rad).
...IWD Weekly doesn't even give XP for the quest in the Ice Wind Pass neither does Well of Dragon's Weekly.
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Cloaked Ascendancy (73) is perhaps 5908 (one of the first to be reduced) yet scales up from Ice Wind Pass perhaps 2743.
A weekly Ritual gives 5908 XP, remove the XP like other weeklies, reward 28 Secret's & 20 Evidence of Evil.
╘ then add 4500 (rad) similar to Ice Wind Pass, Well of Dragons: it's either (rad) or XP not both.
Remove the 5908 XP all together yet offset it by adding one additional weekly for 4500 (rad) with a Portal Stone--a CSTORE option as well.
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Chult, Omu should XP down from 2900-3450 XP (noticeable reduction) yet missions endlessly repeat as well.
Omu Little God's quest currently gives 5908 XP as an example.
╘ then remove XP from Night Serpent giving 11816 XP, no (rad) but Soulstalker's Cache a +5 chance (rad equivalent)
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& Barovia perhaps also slightly scaled back on XP, cause again missions can cycle endlessly.
This would show XP growing based on the level of difficulty; yet balance that offsets losses with other gains...
Present level 70 would be exempt, but have the option to go back and do the missing zones.
Granted there are a lot of level 70 players who are looking for a little more challenge, but then there are some players who have just recently come into the game or who haven't yet completed all of the available content that don't really need that challenge.
@grogthemagnif was speaking of "the olden days" where level 60 characters were the max, back then some of us level 60 characters could solo a lot of content like Sharandar and the Dred Ring but after the update most of the time our level 60 characters would try to run content we used to be able to do with our previously BIS gear and would be one shot killed by opponents we used to hold our own against... that wasn't fun.
I'm all for level 70 players asking for more challenging content - I'm completely opposed to thinking the best way to do that is to change existing content to make it more difficult... to me that seems more than a little self serving and highly inconsiderate of players who aren't presently dominating or finding current content boring.
Just my 2¢
Strathkin 'invented' the raising the levels of xp granted not me. Right now many of the new zones - level 10, level 15 (and all the AI content, the various ToD/WoD levels, etc. aren't figured in the level 70 xp cap and they should be. In the original D&D (no, not AD&D) at level 11 all level advancement was 1000,000 xp per level which would mean that level 70 was any where from 62,000,000 xp for a fighter to get to level 70 down to 60,000,000 for a Wizard who got to 1,000,000 at level 11 to a Cleric who topped out at level 10 with 1,000,000 would need 61,000,000 to get to level 70. For us it's 973,600 which seems a might on the low side compared to the Millions of (but not 60 millions, although some are close by playing 16 hours a day for almost 6 years) some of the very active players have.
The xp awards are fine, but take them into account when creating the new levels, e.g. if you add 100,000 xp (say level 15 with AI) to a level, then add that to the level before you can get to the next level. If you add 10,000,000 on several leels as was done with ToD/WoD then raise those level caps up and increase the total needed to get to level 70. If new content is added below level 70 add it to the level(s) affected and raise the xp cap to get to level 70 by the sdame amount.
Raising the rewards, as Strathkin suggested would just mean a lot more content could be skipped.
The only thing I mentioned from your post was; I too remember "the olden days" when Neverwinter raised the content levels on areas our 60 level characters used to be able to run; like Sharandar and the Dread Ring and getting trounced when we tried to run that content with those characters after the levels were raised, with the comment "That wasn't fun".
Cause I'm in fact very, if not extremely happy, with how Cryptic's introduced MOD's in various campaigns; one time we'd get a more difficult one, perhaps then a little easier one. But their previously was GAPs to fill in! Now I think however we do have enough low level campaigns that grow will all players right up to Chult &/or Barovia. So I suspect now the focus will be on introducing harder Campaigns &/or perhaps our first 74 NPC area. I didn't in fact suggest raising any campaign difficulty what-so-ever; the only exception was the Stronghold and then even a very minor change from 70 NPC's to 71. But that map needs new ways to stay relevant to all players across a wide spectrum of Item Levels.
NOTE: My Comment above was 'mostly' suggesting they need to properly scale XP up in a balanced fashion from Elemental Evil, Sharandar, so each progressively increasing difficult campaign offer's slightly more XP. Given that most fresh 70's can in fact earn all Power Points within 3-5 weeks they do need to reduce the overall XP [25-40%] while still scaling the XP values upwards in a balanced fashion as I demonstrated above. Especially given Chult changed how Campaigns can continue endlessly each day, or more progressively over a week, regardless should like scale XP down to 2900-3450 XP, with Barovia perhaps upwards of 3700 XP, and scale XP for future Campaigns slightly upwards from their. I think that would represent a more balanced and growing fashion.
Getting back to the Stronghold Map which I suggested the only I suggested they increase NPCs from 70 to 71 Difficulty; it's a map that also has several other potential ways to grow/scale the types of challenges for all Item Levels:
- Heroic Encounter's Minor [Small] w/NPCs (71) / Major [Mid] w/NPCs (72) / Epic [Big] w/NPCs (73) for example.
- ╘ They introduced variable NPCs with Maze : Skyhold (39) yet has (70) challenge area's.
- Quests from NPCs could be Similar Minor (71), Major (72) , Epic (73), even Legendary (74).
- ╘ Minor would mostly be on the Map itself, Major - Legendary could be easily added in a different way.
- ╘ Major (72) Cleric could give quest to visit a Citizen's Household to investigate there haunted basement.
- ╘ Epic (73) Builder could give a quest to visit Shrine or Wizard's Workshop or other Guild Properties.
- ╘ Legendary (74) who knows the possibilities are endless...
What I however did not 'directly' say because it was perhaps 'implied' softly, was that I agreed with Grog that likely now the time to see more harder campaigns introduced. But I do in 'fact' believe strongly that is exactly the direction things are going, even though I didn't say it, because the AI campaign was a bit easier, most of it was designed around the Crafting updates, though they did improve reduced scaling for lower level adventure zones. Also the new Private Queue modes for Extreme Difficulty & Reduce Item Level greatly expand the challenge even for lower level dungeons significantly! And make many moderate or higher ones almost still impassible for many...I thought it was 'obvious' they are offering IOU's with 600 Item Level Gear as likely a 'lead in' to saying perhaps the next few MOD's may even introduce 74 level enemy?
So many opportunities or ways they could continue to build or expand what Maze first introduced with Maps with variable NPCs difficulties &/or how the new Private Queues make many Dungeons, Trials, and Skirmishes significantly more challenges and to expand those options for future campaigns... in addition to perhaps seeing our first (74) level campaign at some point in the near to medium time frame as well.
@nitocris83
I think however given time we'll see other campaigns that likely expand the Omin's IOU concept. Not so each Character has only one difficult Dungeon, but each character could eventually have a few different types of challenges. It may also push you out of your comfort zone in other ways as well:
- Complete a Dungeon in one Paragon &/or Feat (Capstone) in Extreme Difficulty & Reduced Item Level.
- Complete it again in another Paragon &/or Feat (Capstone) just Extreme Difficulty.
- Could also see a third variable options added to Private Queue Challenges.
- Not to mention a new Dungeon / Campaign might also push the boundaries of NPCs to 74?
They could really force us out of our comfort zones in so many other ways as well...As for Rewards however I have no 'doubt' they will continue to offer new ways to grow our characters, but continue to offer various ways to customize our characters, and who knows what may still be around the corner...
Update the Item Level and powers of those old rings or get rid of them already!
But I am one of those odd people that see nothing wrong with charging money for new maps / campaigns. Put them behind a paywall for a year then release them for free. Heck, gives fashions that we would want to buy. And the things in the store are WAY over priced for what they are which just leads me to believe they are there for new players who want to throw cash at the game and don't yet understand game values.