test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Another TR thread
All efforts to make TRs feel less like TRs and more like a GWF or HR have been successful. It's is time to make TRs great again and get them back that TR feel. I have spoken with several TRs and all agree that the class doesnt feel anymore like it used to be. There are 25 pages of feedback in TR rework threat and it is more than obvious that players are not satisfied with the product that was delivered in mod 15, while the devs said it was a rework we all have been waiting for. On the contrary, such rework we never wanted. Somehow, everything we asked for was understood the wrong way and class damaging changes were made. Not sure if the Neverwinter dev team understands/realizes this but TRs are not happy with mod 15 TR and this is not just because of the huge damage nerf but also, because of the different feel of the class.
Dont get me wrong, I am not saying there were no positive things about the m15 rework, there were, some but those are limited to the balance among the feat trees. That's where the positive part of m15 rework ends, everything else was negative. So many TR players have abandoned the class and now play some other class, you can see their TR characters only for few seconds when they invoke on that character and thats all, some have stopped playing the game entirely, because they dont like TR anymore or because of the lack of content in last 2 mods and no bug fixes in that content.
It has been reported by players before mod 15 went live that new TR will be severely nerfed and fall on the bottom of DPS ladder. The class is designed as pure DPS, no need to push it onto a support path (new Courage Breaker) as TRs wont play like that, no one is using CB anymore. We are greedy tricksters caring only about our own dps output and doing nothing for the party (we could with DhS, WR and CB but again, we are too greedy for that) so let us be good in what we want - DPS-ing. I will propose several changes for the betterment of TR class:
1. Improve our buffing Daily Powers such as Whirlwind of Blades, Courage Breaker and Lurkers Assault because the biggest nerf came from this section. WoB and CB are not even half as good as they were, double their buffing amounts, increase LA buff by 10-20% and consider to remove the Action Points block from LA. Bring back glowing hands for the duration of WoB. Increase CB duration in PvE to 10 seconds, lower it for PvP.
2. Revert class features Invisible Infiltrator and Infiltrator's Action back to how they worked before mod 15. That means they can stack with itself and are rewarding us for doing so instead of currently punishing us by doing so. Figure out a different fix for Bloodbath double proccing them, now it doesnt proc at all.
3. Change Impossible to Catch back to how it was in mod 14 including ITC feat - 5 seconds duration and 10% increase of buffed amount of Power. Halve ITC duration in PvP arenas.
This is important for TR class because we also need to focus on Recovery as well, besides ArPen and Crit so our Power stat is the lowest among all classes. Current ITC ability with feat is not impressive and the animation change made it terrible to use, its incredibly clunky.
4. Buff Smoke Bomb by 50%. It was nerfed by 30% in m15 aside from AoC bug fix. Halve Smoke Bomb damage in PvP arenas after increasing it by 50% to avoid CC+good damage unwanted scenario.
5. First use of Saboteur capstone doesnt proc Cunning Ambusher and starts using 2nd Stealth right away. Scoundrel tree has a use in PvP, I heard but in PvE still has none. It's not better than Saboteur in AoE fights and it's not better than Executioner in single target fights.
6. I am sure all PvP TR's will complain about being visible in Stealth. Permanent uptime on ITC was a bigger issue than Stealth.
Several TR-unrelated changes:
1. Loadouts - Make them switchable anywhere as long as we are not in combat and independent from Artifact cooldowns. We can already switch them in major areas like PE, Port Nyanzaru and Stronghold anywhere without campfire. Making it so in dungeons as well would help a lot.
2. Please focus on major bugs, especially in latest content. Castle Ravenloft has been full of bugs since release and still is, maybe because of over complicated design when it comes to boss mechanics.}
3. Give us more Dungeons - at least 2 or 3 dungeons per year, plus one Trial and one Skirmish. We have been getting 1 dungeon per year at best and we grind it out into oblivion and we get bored and stop playing. You dont have to make all 3 as detailed as TONG and CR, they can be simple in design and still great to run if Bosses are interesting. Boss mechanics dont have to be complicated and remove immunity phases like Atropal has in Cradle. Goristo-like red aoe areas around boss with a sure-kill mechanic happening every 15 seconds and lasting for 5 seconds will force the players to stop DPSing and move away from the boss. I'll link a simple designed dungeon from WoW - Vault of Archavon: https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1379/1311506-4603.jpg
4. Consider stopping the month-long campaign gated content and add latest Campaign buyout into Zen store for players who dont want to bother with doing a campaign for even a single day and want to run Dungeons. 2 weeks on campaign quests are more than enough to unlock a Dungeon, players who dont want to do it can unlock it by purchasing Campaign buyout from Zen store, for the right price of course if they want such luxury.
5. Consider removing mechanics like Bloody Death, Sunsword and Silvering Kit and instead add a one or two minutes timer which when expires increases the damage of the entire party by lets say 200%. That will help weak teams dealing with Orcus and Arcolith while good teams wont have that benefit because they wont wait for that buff.
6. Remove the logout/login timer of 30 seconds as it doesnt do absolutely nothing and its only annoying.
Dont get me wrong, I am not saying there were no positive things about the m15 rework, there were, some but those are limited to the balance among the feat trees. That's where the positive part of m15 rework ends, everything else was negative. So many TR players have abandoned the class and now play some other class, you can see their TR characters only for few seconds when they invoke on that character and thats all, some have stopped playing the game entirely, because they dont like TR anymore or because of the lack of content in last 2 mods and no bug fixes in that content.
It has been reported by players before mod 15 went live that new TR will be severely nerfed and fall on the bottom of DPS ladder. The class is designed as pure DPS, no need to push it onto a support path (new Courage Breaker) as TRs wont play like that, no one is using CB anymore. We are greedy tricksters caring only about our own dps output and doing nothing for the party (we could with DhS, WR and CB but again, we are too greedy for that) so let us be good in what we want - DPS-ing. I will propose several changes for the betterment of TR class:
1. Improve our buffing Daily Powers such as Whirlwind of Blades, Courage Breaker and Lurkers Assault because the biggest nerf came from this section. WoB and CB are not even half as good as they were, double their buffing amounts, increase LA buff by 10-20% and consider to remove the Action Points block from LA. Bring back glowing hands for the duration of WoB. Increase CB duration in PvE to 10 seconds, lower it for PvP.
2. Revert class features Invisible Infiltrator and Infiltrator's Action back to how they worked before mod 15. That means they can stack with itself and are rewarding us for doing so instead of currently punishing us by doing so. Figure out a different fix for Bloodbath double proccing them, now it doesnt proc at all.
3. Change Impossible to Catch back to how it was in mod 14 including ITC feat - 5 seconds duration and 10% increase of buffed amount of Power. Halve ITC duration in PvP arenas.
This is important for TR class because we also need to focus on Recovery as well, besides ArPen and Crit so our Power stat is the lowest among all classes. Current ITC ability with feat is not impressive and the animation change made it terrible to use, its incredibly clunky.
4. Buff Smoke Bomb by 50%. It was nerfed by 30% in m15 aside from AoC bug fix. Halve Smoke Bomb damage in PvP arenas after increasing it by 50% to avoid CC+good damage unwanted scenario.
5. First use of Saboteur capstone doesnt proc Cunning Ambusher and starts using 2nd Stealth right away. Scoundrel tree has a use in PvP, I heard but in PvE still has none. It's not better than Saboteur in AoE fights and it's not better than Executioner in single target fights.
6. I am sure all PvP TR's will complain about being visible in Stealth. Permanent uptime on ITC was a bigger issue than Stealth.
Several TR-unrelated changes:
1. Loadouts - Make them switchable anywhere as long as we are not in combat and independent from Artifact cooldowns. We can already switch them in major areas like PE, Port Nyanzaru and Stronghold anywhere without campfire. Making it so in dungeons as well would help a lot.
2. Please focus on major bugs, especially in latest content. Castle Ravenloft has been full of bugs since release and still is, maybe because of over complicated design when it comes to boss mechanics.}
3. Give us more Dungeons - at least 2 or 3 dungeons per year, plus one Trial and one Skirmish. We have been getting 1 dungeon per year at best and we grind it out into oblivion and we get bored and stop playing. You dont have to make all 3 as detailed as TONG and CR, they can be simple in design and still great to run if Bosses are interesting. Boss mechanics dont have to be complicated and remove immunity phases like Atropal has in Cradle. Goristo-like red aoe areas around boss with a sure-kill mechanic happening every 15 seconds and lasting for 5 seconds will force the players to stop DPSing and move away from the boss. I'll link a simple designed dungeon from WoW - Vault of Archavon: https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/0/1379/1311506-4603.jpg
4. Consider stopping the month-long campaign gated content and add latest Campaign buyout into Zen store for players who dont want to bother with doing a campaign for even a single day and want to run Dungeons. 2 weeks on campaign quests are more than enough to unlock a Dungeon, players who dont want to do it can unlock it by purchasing Campaign buyout from Zen store, for the right price of course if they want such luxury.
5. Consider removing mechanics like Bloody Death, Sunsword and Silvering Kit and instead add a one or two minutes timer which when expires increases the damage of the entire party by lets say 200%. That will help weak teams dealing with Orcus and Arcolith while good teams wont have that benefit because they wont wait for that buff.
6. Remove the logout/login timer of 30 seconds as it doesnt do absolutely nothing and its only annoying.
Post edited by blur#5900 on
5
Comments
@terramak
@nitocris83
@mimicking#6533
@noworries#8859
@percemer
@kreatyve
Btw, the stealth features are very handy in dungeons, as are the disarm traps, which is not used much in PvP
Saw the same thing in Path of Exile. MMOs should not try to be Team Fortress. If I wanted to play Team Fortress, I would play Team Fortress.
Everyone wants to be better than the other players, In PvP the 'solution' has been to nerf the other players down to their level rather than building their player up to be abe to compete against the best.
The only logical solution is to UNDO all the nerfs to all the characters and then reopen PvP and let 'The Best of the Best' compete in PvP as well as those who think they are the best compete against them. Until those who are not the 'Best of the Best' get beat and beaten badly by the 'Best of the Best' will they understand what it takes to be 'The Best of the Best'.
Once all the nerfs are done away with, the game will be a lot easier for all.
The thing is, a pvp-min maxed toon (like mine) can strap on a good pet, swap to a pve loadout, watch a few youtube guides and happily complete CR with his guildies. However, a pve min-maxed toon cannot dump their pet, and suddenly queue for domination and expect to be anything but cannon fodder. No scrolls in pvp. Different skill set. A difficult-skill set.
What I mean is, pve can happily, as we see everyday, co-exist with pvp. Sure classes go up and down the paingiver each mod - except the goddamned gwfs - but the meta adapts. However, pvp cannot co-exist with a wholly pve orientated game, for the very reasons you have mentioned above.
I really really wish there was an aspect to the pve campaigns that involved pvp. We pvpers, those that are left anyway, have always had to progress through pve content, and thus have become used, if not as adept as pure pve players, to the tactics of pve. I've always had the feeling that a lot of the pve playerbase is not against the concept of pvp per se, but angry that when they do try it, they find they are bad at it.
Anyways, gj OP, ya done good. I'd also change SoD a bit - you do the same 50% more damage after SoD expires, but also gives the TR a slight DPS buff for its duration - like 10 or 15% would suffice, or alternatively, when proccing SoD on just one target, you stay invis, and invis grants you +x% critsev, because TRs should be about stealthy murder.