Powers and feats that self buff

dagambit · December 2018

On the TR thread for mod 15 changes one of the devs said they want to get rid of powers the self buff classes. So with that mind set the devs went and murdered us TRs trying to balance the class other paths. I understand not want power looping and powers and feats that self buff. What I dont understand is why do it to one class and not all that isn't fair. Yes I am talking about the GWF's class feat Battle Awareness which increase the GWF's power by 25% as long as Slam in active. Wow it's that ironic? Press the advantage on gave TRs 10% power increase and that was reworked. Our daily courage breaker gave 25% temporarily increased our power was removed as well. Then there is whirl wind of blades that changed it's self buffing removed as well.

So is it okay for the GWF to keep its 25% self buffing feat??? And the TR lose its 10% self buff feat. The way I see it if a GWF has high recovery and AP gain Slam can be up 100% of the time and keep it's 25% self buffing up, the same way CB can which gave TRs a 25% power buff.

Basically the devs said self power buffing is good for GWF class but not the TR class.

evil604 · December 2018

The gwf"s buff is base power only.

leonidrex · December 2018

dagambit said:
On the TR thread for mod 15 changes one of the devs said they want to get rid of powers the self buff classes. So with that mind set the devs went and murdered us TRs trying to balance the class other paths. I understand not want power looping and powers and feats that self buff. What I dont understand is why do it to one class and not all that isn't fair. Yes I am talking about the GWF's class feat Battle Awareness which increase the GWF's power by 25% as long as Slam in active. Wow it's that ironic? Press the advantage on gave TRs 10% power increase and that was reworked. Our daily courage breaker gave 25% temporarily increased our power was removed as well. Then there is whirl wind of blades that changed it's self buffing removed as well.

So is it okay for the GWF to keep its 25% self buffing feat??? And the TR lose its 10% self buff feat. The way I see it if a GWF has high recovery and AP gain Slam can be up 100% of the time and keep it's 25% self buffing up, the same way CB can which gave TRs a 25% power buff.

Basically the devs said self power buffing is good for GWF class but not the TR class.

i havent seen GWF with more then 350k power, have you? meanwhile TR were reaching 1 mil power.
Should have stopped reading when you said " devs went and murdered us TRs ".

leonidrex · December 2018

dagambit said:
On the TR thread for mod 15 changes one of the devs said they want to get rid of powers the self buff classes. So with that mind set the devs went and murdered us TRs trying to balance the class other paths. I understand not want power looping and powers and feats that self buff. What I dont understand is why do it to one class and not all that isn't fair. Yes I am talking about the GWF's class feat Battle Awareness which increase the GWF's power by 25% as long as Slam in active. Wow it's that ironic? Press the advantage on gave TRs 10% power increase and that was reworked. Our daily courage breaker gave 25% temporarily increased our power was removed as well. Then there is whirl wind of blades that changed it's self buffing removed as well.

So is it okay for the GWF to keep its 25% self buffing feat??? And the TR lose its 10% self buff feat. The way I see it if a GWF has high recovery and AP gain Slam can be up 100% of the time and keep it's 25% self buffing up, the same way CB can which gave TRs a 25% power buff.

Basically the devs said self power buffing is good for GWF class but not the TR class.

oh and another thing, i just realized you are on console, so you shouldnt even say anything about mod 15 since you have no clue what you are talking about.

dagambit · December 2018

leonidrex said:
oh and another thing, i just realized you are on console, so you shouldnt even say anything about mod 15 since you have no clue what you are talking about.

I play on PC and XB1 so I do know what I am talking about. Just because I do not advocate my PC toon does not mean I am not on multiple platforms. And the topic of the mentioned was about self buffing powers that good for one class and not the other. You sound like one of those hypocrite at the academy that wants Kevin Hart to apologize. Because a feats that self buffs is a feat that self buffs regardless of what class it is. If a GWF can buff himself 25% why can't a TR?

evil604 · December 2018

Because the gwf's 25% buff increases their base stat power. All the tr's power buffs don't work as intended and give ALOT more than their base power. Even if they get rid of slams 25% base power buff it doesn't matter many gwf use relentless battle fury build( 20% more at will and encounter damage plus a group buff etc. etc.) which many say is better and those that don't will switch to it. Its not big deal most gwf's won't even care.

leonidrex · December 2018

dagambit said:
oh and another thing, i just realized you are on console, so you shouldnt even say anything about mod 15 since you have no clue what you are talking about.

I play on PC and XB1 so I do know what I am talking about. Just because I do not advocate my PC toon does not mean I am not on multiple platforms. And the topic of the mentioned was about self buffing powers that good for one class and not the other. You sound like one of those hypocrite at the academy that wants Kevin Hart to apologize. Because a feats that self buffs is a feat that self buffs regardless of what class it is. If a GWF can buff himself 25% why can't a TR?

becouse everything that TRs do is broken? it says increase power by 10%. but it increases power AFTER powershare, AFTER bondings, and you end up with stupid ammounts of power lik 10000000. do you see this number? TR could reach that number.
GWF increases his base power, so he ends up with maybe 10k more? maybe i am wrong and nee to be corrected but there is VAST difference, isnt there?

evil604 · December 2018

leonidrex said:

dagambit said:
oh and another thing, i just realized you are on console, so you shouldnt even say anything about mod 15 since you have no clue what you are talking about.

I play on PC and XB1 so I do know what I am talking about. Just because I do not advocate my PC toon does not mean I am not on multiple platforms. And the topic of the mentioned was about self buffing powers that good for one class and not the other. You sound like one of those hypocrite at the academy that wants Kevin Hart to apologize. Because a feats that self buffs is a feat that self buffs regardless of what class it is. If a GWF can buff himself 25% why can't a TR?
becouse everything that TRs do is broken? it says increase power by 10%. but it increases power AFTER powershare, AFTER bondings, and you end up with stupid ammounts of power lik 10000000. do you see this number? TR could reach that number.
GWF increases his base power, so he ends up with maybe 10k more? maybe i am wrong and nee to be corrected but there is VAST difference, isnt there?

You are right Leonidrex TRs are/were as broken as SW's were waaay back in the day. I bet TRs are still better in mod 15 than they were in mod 13.

micky1p00 · December 2018

evil604#4491 said:

leonidrex said:

dagambit said:
oh and another thing, i just realized you are on console, so you shouldnt even say anything about mod 15 since you have no clue what you are talking about.

I play on PC and XB1 so I do know what I am talking about. Just because I do not advocate my PC toon does not mean I am not on multiple platforms. And the topic of the mentioned was about self buffing powers that good for one class and not the other. You sound like one of those hypocrite at the academy that wants Kevin Hart to apologize. Because a feats that self buffs is a feat that self buffs regardless of what class it is. If a GWF can buff himself 25% why can't a TR?
becouse everything that TRs do is broken? it says increase power by 10%. but it increases power AFTER powershare, AFTER bondings, and you end up with stupid ammounts of power lik 10000000. do you see this number? TR could reach that number.
GWF increases his base power, so he ends up with maybe 10k more? maybe i am wrong and nee to be corrected but there is VAST difference, isnt there?
You are right Leonidrex TRs are/were as broken as SW's were waaay back in the day. I bet TRs are still better in mod 15 than they were in mod 13.

1. No, you can't reach with 10% power of buffed to '10000000' no matter what power share you get, and what not. So lets cut the HAMSTER.

2. No, TR are not better now than they were in mod13, actually much worse. The fact that there is power creep and like better weapons mask it. But as a class? Worse.

So easy to throw numbers around, and 'facts'.. This is why the game looks like the mess it is..

leonidrex · December 2018

micky1p00 said:

evil604#4491 said:

leonidrex said:

dagambit said:
oh and another thing, i just realized you are on console, so you shouldnt even say anything about mod 15 since you have no clue what you are talking about.
I play on PC and XB1 so I do know what I am talking about. Just because I do not advocate my PC toon does not mean I am not on multiple platforms. And the topic of the mentioned was about self buffing powers that good for one class and not the other. You sound like one of those hypocrite at the academy that wants Kevin Hart to apologize. Because a feats that self buffs is a feat that self buffs regardless of what class it is. If a GWF can buff himself 25% why can't a TR?

becouse everything that TRs do is broken? it says increase power by 10%. but it increases power AFTER powershare, AFTER bondings, and you end up with stupid ammounts of power lik 10000000. do you see this number? TR could reach that number.
GWF increases his base power, so he ends up with maybe 10k more? maybe i am wrong and nee to be corrected but there is VAST difference, isnt there?
You are right Leonidrex TRs are/were as broken as SW's were waaay back in the day. I bet TRs are still better in mod 15 than they were in mod 13.
1. No, you can reach with 10% power of buffed to '10000000' no matter what power share you get, and what not. So lets cut the HAMSTER.

2. No, TR are not better now than they were in mod13, actually much worse. The fact that there is power creep and like better weapons mask it. But as a class? Worse.

So easy to throw numbers around, and 'facts'.. This is why the game looks like the mess it is..

i have run with pug TRs, seen 15-16k reach 800-850k, so dont say 1mil is unreachable. mb you should run with better geared supports and see what REAL power looks like.

micky1p00 · December 2018

leonidrex said:

micky1p00 said:

evil604#4491 said:

leonidrex said:

dagambit said:
oh and another thing, i just realized you are on console, so you shouldnt even say anything about mod 15 since you have no clue what you are talking about.
I play on PC and XB1 so I do know what I am talking about. Just because I do not advocate my PC toon does not mean I am not on multiple platforms. And the topic of the mentioned was about self buffing powers that good for one class and not the other. You sound like one of those hypocrite at the academy that wants Kevin Hart to apologize. Because a feats that self buffs is a feat that self buffs regardless of what class it is. If a GWF can buff himself 25% why can't a TR?

becouse everything that TRs do is broken? it says increase power by 10%. but it increases power AFTER powershare, AFTER bondings, and you end up with stupid ammounts of power lik 10000000. do you see this number? TR could reach that number.
GWF increases his base power, so he ends up with maybe 10k more? maybe i am wrong and nee to be corrected but there is VAST difference, isnt there?
You are right Leonidrex TRs are/were as broken as SW's were waaay back in the day. I bet TRs are still better in mod 15 than they were in mod 13.
1. No, you can reach with 10% power of buffed to '10000000' no matter what power share you get, and what not. So lets cut the HAMSTER.

2. No, TR are not better now than they were in mod13, actually much worse. The fact that there is power creep and like better weapons mask it. But as a class? Worse.

So easy to throw numbers around, and 'facts'.. This is why the game looks like the mess it is..
i have run with pug TRs, seen 15-16k reach 800-850k, so dont say 1mil is unreachable. mb you should run with better geared supports and see what REAL power looks like.

Maybe you try to read better.

Lets try it slowly, 10% ITC power buff will not get you X, Y or Z.
How about first you actually comprehend how it's done. Or read what people who actually know something tell you.

And second, count the zeroes. Just for the record, you wrote 10mil. But that is besides the point, ITC, while contributing, was not how it was reached.

micky1p00 · December 2018

And on the way, please do tell, ignoring other mechanics like Artificers, what will be better in a good buffed party in which I will have about 250k power, 500k more power (up to 750k) or 3 buffs of 40% damage increase each?

tremeliques · December 2018

That's the thing that everyone seems to miss for some reason, people are always like "oh look at the power they can get" while ignoring all the self buffs the other classes can have, i bet that not even 10% of people that read what Janne asked in the comment above can answer it properly and i got to say this, if you can't answer such a simple question then go learn the mechanics before talking.
Also one extra thing, please don't compare special occasions, yes TR's could reach 1m power, but you would need to have adds, that ONLY 1 boss has, on the rest of them u can say good bye to more then half that, and if you were to compare against adds o they would die way to quick most of the times, it's not like it would matter and even then you would take more time to buff up then other classes.
So please, don't ignore facts.

evil604 · December 2018

Micky1poo i was just agreeing with leonidrex. I never posted anything about 10% or whatever. What i did say was that TR's power buffs (plural read carefully) gave alot more than their base power as a buff which is true. If TRs are worse than mod 13 that means they went too far with the nerf . The same as with SW's when they were broken and practically one shoting bosses and got nerfed. I hope in mod 16 they rebuff TRs properly and maybe Mickey1poo will stop raging and trolling. A little raging after such a massive nerf or fixing a broken class (depending on how you see want to see it) is normal though. And again answering the original post (more clearly and concisely this time) The reason that GWF slam buff is still active is because it only buffs your base stats before bondings, powershare etc... also they didn't really work on GWFs this mod just a few new things that don't even work right. But it is very likely Gwf's will lose the slam power buff in the near future if they do get reworked as i hope.

leonidrex · December 2018

@micky1p00 the question was why GWF has slam powerbuff, while TR got their powerbuffs removed. ITC giving 10% was simply an example. Running around with 800k-1kk power is unacceptable in my opinion, expecially since there are buffs like shepherds devotion and artificers persuasion, 300k that we reach today is pushing it already.... As for TR being better then m 13 or not. I dont know, but when i do run with TR as dps its not a struggle, speed at which we compleate the dungeon with TR/CW/GWF is rather comperable. The only real problem of TR is that all we need is 1 DPS and 4 supports, and tell me how many dps are there compared to supports? as long as this issue doesnt get solved it wont really matter what DPS is the best.

micky1p00 · December 2018

evil604#4491 said:
Micky1poo i was just agreeing with leonidrex. I never posted anything about 10% or whatever. What i did say was that TR's power buffs (plural read carefully) gave alot more than their base power as a buff which is true. If TRs are worse than mod 13 that means they went too far with the nerf . The same as with SW's when they were broken and practically one shoting bosses and got nerfed. I hope in mod 16 they rebuff TRs properly and maybe Mickey1poo will stop raging and trolling. A little raging after such a massive nerf or fixing a broken class (depending on how you see want to see it) is normal though. And again answering the original post (more clearly and concisely this time) The reason that GWF slam buff is still active is because it only buffs your base stats before bondings, powershare etc... also they didn't really work on GWFs this mod just a few new things that don't even work right. But it is very likely Gwf's will lose the slam power buff in the near future if they do get reworked as i hope.

1. SW has a bug in the debuff section, nothing to do with this case.

2. You quoted incorrectly, look at your own post.

3. I don't rage. I've responded in a simple statement, and a simple question, do not invalidate those, because they are uncomfortable to you by ad-hominem.

4. (removed)

5. It will be lovely if people who comment about a class actually knew even the basics of the class or the changes they try to discuss. BTW what is that you bet that TR is better than mod13, and I disagree, how about a profitable bet, legendary mount? A snail perhaps?

micky1p00 · December 2018

leonidrex said:
@micky1p00 the question was why GWF has slam powerbuff, while TR got their powerbuffs removed. ITC giving 10% was simply an example. Running around with 800k-1kk power is unacceptable in my opinion, expecially since there are buffs like shepherds devotion and artificers persuasion, 300k that we reach today is pushing it already.... As for TR being better then m 13 or not. I dont know, but when i do run with TR as dps its not a struggle, speed at which we compleate the dungeon with TR/CW/GWF is rather comperable. The only real problem of TR is that all we need is 1 DPS and 4 supports, and tell me how many dps are there compared to supports? as long as this issue doesnt get solved it wont really matter what DPS is the best.

You have issue with 800k - 1mil power. It's unacceptable by your words, then please reply to my question in a previous post. Lets move forward after you do. Give it a thought, and a try, worst case you will be wrong, only those that do not do, do not make mistakes.

And if you mention shepherds, and it is a valid concern, what is the cap? Does it matter what there is someone with 1mil power? or not?

Lets not deviate from 'TR comparable or not' to 'it doesn't really matter', if it doesn't really matter then it doesn't matter in the opposite direction too, you shouldn't object then that TR is better. You can't do faster than one phasing, and every(?) class now except maybe OP can one phase most HAMSTER.

And finally, I don't believe that there should be a comparison to slam as the OP did, it is irrelevant what other class have, only relevant is what they achieve at the end. People stuck too much with "oh noes big numbers" without the understanding the various interactions, the caps, and their meaning. And especially without understanding the influence on the classes.

leonidrex · December 2018

micky1p00 said:

leonidrex said:
@micky1p00 the question was why GWF has slam powerbuff, while TR got their powerbuffs removed. ITC giving 10% was simply an example. Running around with 800k-1kk power is unacceptable in my opinion, expecially since there are buffs like shepherds devotion and artificers persuasion, 300k that we reach today is pushing it already.... As for TR being better then m 13 or not. I dont know, but when i do run with TR as dps its not a struggle, speed at which we compleate the dungeon with TR/CW/GWF is rather comperable. The only real problem of TR is that all we need is 1 DPS and 4 supports, and tell me how many dps are there compared to supports? as long as this issue doesnt get solved it wont really matter what DPS is the best.
You have issue with 800k - 1mil power. It's unacceptable by your words, then please reply to my question in a previous post. Lets move forward after you do. Give it a thought, and a try, worst case you will be wrong, only those that do not do, do not make mistakes.

And if you mention shepherds, and it is a valid concern, what is the cap? Does it matter what there is someone with 1mil power? or not?

Lets not deviate from 'TR comparable or not' to 'it doesn't really matter', if it doesn't really matter then it doesn't matter in the opposite direction too, you shouldn't object then that TR is better. You can't do faster than one phasing, and every(?) class now except maybe OP can one phase most HAMSTER.

And finally, I don't believe that there should be a comparison to slam as the OP did, it is irrelevant what other class have, only relevant is what they achieve at the end. People stuck too much with "oh noes big numbers" without the understanding the various interactions, the caps, and their meaning. And especially without understanding the influence on the classes.

i am afraid you missed the point of this post, it was about powerselfbuffs of TR and GWF. what needed to be said was said. i remain with what I said about TR being able to reach ridiculous numbers of power in previous mods. if they are bad now, buff then i really dont care.
Power gives you : dmg,healing,movespeed and recovery. if a class relies on it for damage, it will naturarly end up with more speed and recovery.

mebengalsfan · December 2018

dagambit said:
On the TR thread for mod 15 changes one of the devs said they want to get rid of powers the self buff classes. So with that mind set the devs went and murdered us TRs trying to balance the class other paths. I understand not want power looping and powers and feats that self buff. What I dont understand is why do it to one class and not all that isn't fair. Yes I am talking about the GWF's class feat Battle Awareness which increase the GWF's power by 25% as long as Slam in active. Wow it's that ironic? Press the advantage on gave TRs 10% power increase and that was reworked. Our daily courage breaker gave 25% temporarily increased our power was removed as well. Then there is whirl wind of blades that changed it's self buffing removed as well.

So is it okay for the GWF to keep its 25% self buffing feat??? And the TR lose its 10% self buff feat. The way I see it if a GWF has high recovery and AP gain Slam can be up 100% of the time and keep it's 25% self buffing up, the same way CB can which gave TRs a 25% power buff.

Basically the devs said self power buffing is good for GWF class but not the TR class.

I can understand where many TRs are coming from when the devs adjust one class and leave another alone only to leave imbalance between classes. Think of how unhappy CWs have been since mod 13; our damage went down and CW became nothing more than a hybrid DPS buffing others for mod 13 and 14.

The issue with the TR was not only the power looping the class had but also the ability to surpass the debuff cap and that allowed TR to produce massive damage in a short time. The same issue of debuff also applied to SW and is why SW also got adjusted in mod 15.

I like the direction the game is going and hopefully the devs do not let their foot off the gas as they normally do because people whine and cry about the changes. If the devs push forward mod 16 we may see DO buffer go away for good, GF DPS get a actual build, GWF no longer self buff and can no longer do their power looping, HR Combat will be adjusted to be in line with the other DPS classes, and by the time Mod 16 hits we all have 2 roles to play in group content.

Mod 15 update was big but mainly due to professions system changes; mod 16 update may be around the Q system with roles and how classes can fit into the updated Q system and to make this happen there maybe further changes for all classes than what I listed above. I'm excited about the possibilities but at the same time given Cryptic history of bugs making it to the live game I'm a bit worried we may end up with one DPS class doing way more than it should and it won't surprise me if its CW since most other DPS classes had a mod or two where they were top DPS. On top of that, classes expanded roles may also have bugs or result in players not being able to Q into content as said role or roles.

TRs are not dead in the water and I personally don't like running with GWF so I typically will take any role that is not a GWF with me when I build groups. My CoDG group include any role that is not a GWF same with my CR or T9. I rather run without a GWF as they tend to make runs take longer. Very rarely do I see a good GWF worth including in my group. There have been a few but over all I rather take a TR, even if they produce less damage.

micky1p00 · December 2018

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

The issue with the TR was not only the power looping the class had but also the ability to surpass the debuff cap and that allowed TR to produce massive damage in a short time. The same issue of debuff also applied to SW and is why SW also got adjusted in mod 15.

Hmmm... huh? What surpass the debuff cap?

dagambit · December 2018

I don't think the Devs knew about power looping until youtube and content creators. Not blaming them but power looping has been around since the beginning it's being address now because of TR dmg. I don't remind making changes to balance a game but if you remove self buffing from 1 class you should do it to all. I don't mind a GWF being where it is at, because they use a two handed weapon so they should do more damage than most classes. One thing I think could have been different is change ITC to damage instead of power. The trash ITC they left TRs with is just laughable.

leonidrex · December 2018

dagambit said:
I don't think the Devs knew about power looping until youtube and content creators. Not blaming them but power looping has been around since the beginning it's being address now because of TR dmg. I don't remind making changes to balance a game but if you remove self buffing from 1 class you should do it to all. I don't mind a GWF being where it is at, because they use a two handed weapon so they should do more damage than most classes. One thing I think could have been different is change ITC to damage instead of power. The trash ITC they left TRs with is just laughable.

does ITC do anything for pve ?
power from it was propably removed as a safty so they dont have to go back to it down the line if i had to guess.
There is alot of things that work off power, like : magistrate, artificiers, shepherds and other things that i propably missed, and if they wanted to add new gear/arti bonuses that work off power they would have to take into account ITC bonus too, making designing harder. Just my guess.

Powers and feats that self buff

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