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Solving the Archery Dilemma - PVE Close Range Archery-Combat Hybrid Build

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  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    Whatever changes do finally happen, I'm planning to take a real crack at an update for this Hybrid Archery build and also thinking of writing a second or alternate build (very possibly a pure archer this time) to take full advantage of the class changes in Mod 15. First thing I will need is a console release, haha! Stay tuned!
  • ashbury#6333 ashbury Posts: 24Member Arc User
    Well as already stated it looks like they are hesitant to give the archer the bluffs out at range because it will make it too OP in pvp. The archer is great in domination because it hits hard from so far away and if we were to be catching buffs on top of that domination might not be much of a challenge anymore. They definitely need to figure something out to keep pvp tweaks and pve tweaks separate from each other. But I wont get all fired up over the changes coming because we will just have to wait and see. I mostly play only PVP and I already dont put 5 points into stillness so this might not turn out to be as bad as everyone thinks. But maybe lol. Might just be able to put those points else where and with some of the other changes they will be making it might be just fine. They are making some other good changes to our class. In PVE maybe stack more crit and then just stand still blasting away increasing damage. Might not be too bad we will see.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited October 2018

    Well as already stated it looks like they are hesitant to give the archer the bluffs out at range because it will make it too OP in pvp. The archer is great in domination because it hits hard from so far away and if we were to be catching buffs on top of that domination might not be much of a challenge anymore. They definitely need to figure something out to keep pvp tweaks and pve tweaks separate from each other. But I wont get all fired up over the changes coming because we will just have to wait and see. I mostly play only PVP and I already dont put 5 points into stillness so this might not turn out to be as bad as everyone thinks. But maybe lol. Might just be able to put those points else where and with some of the other changes they will be making it might be just fine. They are making some other good changes to our class. In PVE maybe stack more crit and then just stand still blasting away increasing damage. Might not be too bad we will see.

    As far as PVP, I would think they could suspend that ranged buff, sort of like how they already suspend use of companions. Maybe that is harder to do than I think, but seems like PVP is able to operate by its own rules.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    A bit belated, but some recent good news for archers here.

    Per this recent patch note, Hags Rags will be stacking with Eyestalk Wrappers. Don't necessarily ditch your Terrored Grips, Jawrippers, or Fearbringers, but if you get the Eyestalk Wrappers and pair them with Hags Rags, that will give you a nice +6% damage to all ranged attack powers, which is great if you are an archer. This includes AoEs like StS and Cordon and at-wills like Aimed Shot. And with Mod 15 around the corner, we could be looking at the dawn of a new age for archery in Neverwinter. I'm hopeful the final changes after preview will have all the wrinkles ironed out. Some adjustments have in fact been made since the original changes on preview. Keep your fingers crossed!

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/11007393
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    Check this out!

    It's a draft write up for an experimental non-DPS Buff-focused HR Build that is part archer and part trapper, taking advantage of high recovery, bottomless quiver and also trapper feats for super fast cooldowns and recharge speed.

    I'm co-authoring the build with an HR from PSN and so far testing has been very promising. We'll be refining the build over the coming days and weeks. Feedback is welcome from anyone! It designed for parties that feature a single DPS with 4 supports. Theoretically, even a 12K IL HR could spec well-enough into this build so as to be viable for an end game support role. Again this is experimental, so buyer beware.

    http://bit.ly/Buff-HR-Build
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    FYI to the Archers, I just updated my hybrid archery build to Mod 15. Not a lot of changes really. Mostly I simply added the new boons, adjusted the introduction section, and made a few other small changes. http://bit.ly/Yarrows-Hybrid-Archery-Build
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited December 2018
    only bad thing with archery is that is doesn't get an arsenal of solid offensive class features. Archery is a mix of single target hits so twin blade storm will not be helping. Just leaves seeker's vengeance, which isn't terribly reliable outside of a boss.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ghoulz66 said:

    only bad thing with archery is that is doesn't get an arsenal of solid offensive class features. Archery is a mix of single target hits so twin blade storm will not be helping. Just leaves seeker's vengeance, which isn't terribly reliable outside of a boss.

    Beyond single target, Archery does also have powerful AoE damage for mobs. Rain of Arrows and Cordon of Areas are two examples and are among an archer's most powerful attacks. This particular build maximizes that damage potential as well, to where an archer can solo even the Chult and Ravenloft campaign areas with ease. While I don't personally use Twin Blade Storm all that often, it does work quite well with AoEs against mobs. This type of archer can also serve as a viable member of any party and has successfully been used by me and others in T9 and Cradle. I use Aspect of the Pack and Aspect of the Serpent most of the time, because of the close range playstyle. But it can be played from a greater distance too and in that case Twin Blade Storm (for AoEs on mobs), Seeker's Vengeance (for bosses), and Aspect of the Falcon (for a +1% damage bonus for every 5 feet of range from the target) would likely be good choices.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Posts: 3,748Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    typo#6563 said:

    ghoulz66 said:

    only bad thing with archery is that is doesn't get an arsenal of solid offensive class features. Archery is a mix of single target hits so twin blade storm will not be helping. Just leaves seeker's vengeance, which isn't terribly reliable outside of a boss.

    Beyond single target, Archery does also have powerful AoE damage for mobs. Rain of Arrows and Cordon of Areas are two examples and are among an archer's most powerful attacks. This particular build maximizes that damage potential as well, to where an archer can solo even the Chult and Ravenloft campaign areas with ease. While I don't personally use Twin Blade Storm all that often, it does work quite well with AoEs against mobs. This type of archer can also serve as a viable member of any party and has successfully been used by me and others in T9 and Cradle. I use Aspect of the Pack and Aspect of the Serpent most of the time, because of the close range playstyle. But it can be played from a greater distance too and in that case Twin Blade Storm (for AoEs on mobs), Seeker's Vengeance (for bosses), and Aspect of the Falcon (for a +1% damage bonus for every 5 feet of range from the target) would likely be good choices.
    Still, if running with another class that gives CA, there's really no other options. Archery will never get the chance to fully optimize it's damage. The spec just needs one further light boost to reach more competitive levels.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited December 2018
    ghoulz66 said:

    Still, if running with another class that gives CA, there's really no other options. Archery will never get the chance to fully optimize it's damage. The spec just needs one further light boost to reach more competitive levels.

    I do agree that the Archery path needs additional work. One simple change might be:

    Stillness of the Forest should be adjusted to greatly increase the damage by standing still. While the current damage of this feat is similar to damage stacks of the other two HR paths, neither of those paths have a penalty in which they lose their stacks. Only archers are treated in this way. Class balancing would suggest that at the very least, in compensation for the penalty, the reward would be enhanced, such as doubling the amount of damage at least. In real life and historically, expert archers can move and one example was the legendary ancient Mongolian archers who could fire accurately from the back of a galloping horse. But as this is a game, I'm ok with standing still as a means of building stacks, but again if we're trying to balance things, the amount of damage you gain seems low considering the existence of a penalty. Perhaps they could say if the archer stands still for at least 3 seconds, then the arrows become flaming arrows and will do triple damage for as long as the archer continues standing still, or something like that. There has to be an appropriate balance of value between the penalty and benefit of this feat, if we are truly going to have some balance.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    For ease of reference, I'm just adding a comment here with all the HR changes from Mod 15.

    Hunter Ranger Changes
    The Stormwarden and Pathfinder Paragon Paths have been differentiated a bit more; Pathfinder should now be more effective in a party support role, while Stormwarden is more solidly in a damage-dealing role. The dodge power now activates immunity immediately, too.

    Baseline Changes
    Shift: There should no longer be a delay before the “Dodge” effect kicks in
    Weak Grasping Roots: Duration increased to 1.5 seconds (up from 1)
    Strong Grasping Roots: Duration increased to 3 seconds (up from 2)

    Buff Changes
    All Buffs: Companions can no longer benefit from these powers.
    All Buffs: Now affects up to 5 targets, (excluding yourself) at rank 1
    All Buffs: No longer increases the amount of allies affected per rank
    All Buffs: No longer requires allies to be in your party
    All Buffs: No longer half as effective for allies
    Boar Hide (Revamped): Grants you, and nearby allies, 5 stacks of “Thick Skin” which increases your damage resistance by 4% per stack. Taking damage removes a single stack.
    Boar Hide: Now reduces the cooldown of Boar Hide by 1 sec / rank
    Hawkeye (Revamped): Grants you, and nearby allies, “Hawkeye” for 5 seconds. “Hawkeye” increases the damage you deal with encounter powers by 5% (down from 15%).
    Hawkeye: Now increases the effectiveness of the buff by 2.5% per rank
    Oak Skin (Revamped): Enhances yourself, as well as nearby allies, with “Oaken Skin” for 9 seconds. “Oaken Skin” heals you for 9% of your maximum life over its duration and increases your incoming healing by 10% while active.
    Oak Skin: Increases the percent of life healed by 3% per rank
    Stag Heart (Revamped): Grants you, and nearby allies, “Stag Heart” for 5 seconds. “Stag Heart” grants you 7.5% of your maximum life as temporary hitpoints.
    Stag Heart: Now increases the amount of Temp Health gained by 2.5% per rank
    Fox's Cunning (Revamped): Duration reduced to 8 seconds (down from 12 seconds)
    Fox's Cunning: Base Cooldown increased to 22 seconds (up from 20)
    Fox's Cunning: Now reduces the cooldown of Fox's Cunning by 2 second per rank (rather than 3 seconds at rank 4
    Aspect of the Serpent (Revamped): Damage reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    Aspect of the Serpent: Damage per rank reduced to 2.5% per stack (down from 3%)
    Aspect of the Serpent: Melee and Archery stacks are now independent

    Encounter Power Changes
    Constricting Arrow: Grasping Root range increased to 12’ (up from 10’)
    Hawkshot: Base damage reduced by 50% (from 1.5 -> 0.75)
    Hawkshot: Damage dealt based on range has been adjusted / reworked
    Now grants between 1.33-2.00x damage based on range (up from 0.5-1.5x)
    Hawkshot: You can now cast your next power 0.2 seconds before this power completes (up from 0 seconds)
    Commanding Shot: You can now cast your next power 0.1 seconds before this power completes (up from 0 seconds)
    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 10 seconds (down from 20 seconds)
    Plant Growth: Root duration reduced to 5 seconds against players (down from 10 seconds)

    Stormwarden Paragon Path
    Bladestorm (Revamp): Chance reduced to 20% (down from 25%)
    Bladestorm: Damage increased to 16% at rank 1 (up from 5%)
    Bladestorm: Damage increased to 8% at each rank (up from 5%)
    Bladestorm: Artifact off-hand bonus: Now states that it increases the total damage done by Bladestorm by 10%
    Bladestorm: This class feature should no longer be double mitigated by level 73 enemies
    Twin Blade Storm: Damage increased to 5% at rank 1 (up from 4%)
    Twin Blade Storm: Damage increased to 5% per rank (up from 4%)
    Stormstep Action (Revamp): Now reduces the cooldown of encounters based on AP spent
    Up to 2 seconds off at 100% AP spent
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 2 seconds at rank 1 (up from 1 second)
    Stormstep Action: Cooldown Reduction increased to 1 second for each rank-up (up from 0.5 seconds)
    Stormstep Action: No longer has reduced value if triggered multiple times within 10 seconds.

    Pathfinder Paragon Path
    Pathfinder's Action: Run Speed increased to 10% at rank 1 (up from 6%)
    Pathfinder's Action: Deflection chance increased to 10% at rank 1 (up from 5%)
    Pathfinder's Action: Run speed per rank-up reduced to 5% (down from 6%)
    Battlehoned (Completely Reworked): Replaced with “Primal Instincts"
    Primal Instincts: Now increases the effectiveness of Boar Hide, Hawkeye, Oak Skin, and Stag Heart by 20% (+10% per rank). and Fox's Cunning's duration by the same amount.
    Primal Instincts (Artifact Power): Now increases Regen rating by 500 (up from 100)
    Cruel Recovery (Reworked): Duration changed to 10 seconds at all ranks (from +4 seconds per rank)
    Cruel Recovery: No longer increases effect duration at each rank
    Cruel Recovery: Now stacks up to 4 times.
    Cruel Recovery: Maximum Stack Count increased by 2 at each rank

    Archery Feats
    Bottomless Quiver: Tooltip changed to state “Your Ranged powers recharge 30% faster” (functionality unchanged)
    Bottomless Quiver: Recharge speed increased to 8/16/24/32/40% (up from 6/12/18/24/30%)
    Stillness of the Forest (Reworked): Now increases your damage dealt and crit chance by 0.5/1/1.5/2/2.5% for each second that you stand still, stacking up to 6 times. You will lose 1 stack per second while moving. Stacks are not lost while out of combat.
    Predator (Reworked): Using a ranged encounter power applies "Prey" to the first target hit for 10 seconds. You deal 20% increased damage to the first target hit by your powers and this bonus is doubled for targets affected by Prey. Prey may only be active on one target at a time and cannot be reapplied until it expires.
    Predator: Now correctly increases the damage you deal to an enemy (Rather than decrease the enemy's damage resistance for your attacks)
    Predator: This feat is no longer half as effective on players.

    Trapper Feats
    Ancient Roots: Weak Grasping Roots duration lowered to .4/.8/1.2/1.6/2 (from .5/1/1.5/2/2.5)
    Ancient Roots: Strong Grasping Roots duration lowered to .8/1.6/2.4/3.2/4 (from 1/2/3/4/5)
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    @hastur905 shares his Mod 15 archery-combat hybrid build in a new video. Check it out!



  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited January 25
    I have updated my archery build with a significant change. As of Mod 15, HRs appear to no longer have the means to proc Combatant's Maneuver on bosses. So I have removed this mount insignia power from the build. Instead, for the time being, I'm recommending Artificer's Influence (2 insignia power) to complement Artificer's Persuasion (3 insignia power) for a little extra boost to recovery for 15 seconds. The added recovery will help to make for a smoother rotation and more efficient DPS output. If you happen to have a legendary mount with Calvary's Warning, that would be ok too.
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited February 9
    Been a while since I shared a video. Here is a hybrid archery run thru Fane of the Night Serpent, from earlier this week. People know archery has powerful ranged attacks, like Aimed Shot, but here I show the AoEs are quite potent too. Archers are also sometimes thought of as fairly squishy, but this is a smooth run. I do have a Soul Sight Crystal, but did not use it so that I could more easily see the boss red AoE attacks in time to avoid them.



    Post edited by typo#6563 on
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    A few words on Combatant's Maneuver...

    As of Mod 15, this mount insignia power no longer procs on bosses via Disruptive Shot. The only HR power that remains which seems capable of reliably procing this power against bosses is Cordon of Arrows. Combat HRs seem resigned to removing Combatant's Maneuver because Cordon is a bit too slow to deal with, even with animation cancelling. But I think this mount power is still fine for Archers to continue to use since we do so much more damage with our ranged attacks anyway. This especially makes sense if using an alternating rotation of melee and range because Cordon's melee variant is Plant Growth, which is excellent for any HR to use. And if you have the Orcus set, yes, the set bonus does scale the damage from Cordon. So I am keeping Combatant's Maneuver as recommended in my hybrid archery build.
  • adinosiiadinosii Posts: 3,833Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I like the whole archery concept...took my HR from 1 to 70 as a pure archer, and that's what I do for solo play....group content, well...

    I haven't tried my HR in mod 16 (and even if I had I would not be allowed to talk about it) but we'll see.
    Make NWO great again, please....
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited February 12
    @adinosii As a complementary pre-cursor build to my hybrid archery build, I just published a pure archery build today. This is actually a second edition, but wanted to work out the kinks a bit more before posting. My co-author and I decided today to share it. It is mainly for early to midgame level-70 HRs.

    http://bit.ly/SwiftFirePureArchery
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
  • mikewho#5331 mikewho Posts: 138Member Arc User
    edited February 21
    I’m hybrid, about a month into neverwinter I found your guide and love it, I hated using one stance especially just slashing away it seemed so dull. I’ll never go another route on hunter ranger. When my crit and crit sev got higher, (90%/113%ish after bonding) I did change out skirm gambit, I’m a bit embarrassed to say it but I went with hasty retreat I’m all for dps,but I found I can I play way better faster and with my movement stats, gladiators guile, and chult tiger, when hasty retreat procs it feels like nothing can keep up with my character.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited February 22
    @mikewho#5331 Hey, if you enjoy what you're doing, then there's nothing wrong with speed. Hasty Retreat is a handy feat for sure. Glad you like the guide!
  • mikewho#5331 mikewho Posts: 138Member Arc User
    > @typo#6563 said:
    > @mikewho#5331 Hey, if you enjoy what you're doing, then there's nothing wrong with speed. Hasty Retreat is a handy feat for sure. Glad you like the guide!

    LOVED the guide, wish I had it in a poster form! if I may ask something a bit related but a bit off subject, man where do our numbers need to be before I start becoming useful in HEs in chult, I can manage most of everything up to that point. But those HEs in chult either massacre me in a few seconds or I am popping off rotations for the entire allowed time just to kill two bone golems, lol
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited February 23
    @mikewho#5331 If you are concerned about being able to solo the heroic encounters in Chult, don't beat yourself up about that. Unlike most other adventure zones in NW, the HEs in Chult all require a group effort. Even if you are at the minimum item level for doing Chult, typically you will struggle a bit until you get to at least 2K over that. If you make sure your armor pen is at 85% and that you have at least 10% lifesteal, that will really help to keep you alive!

    Oh and I'm really happy to hear how much you like the design of the guide. :)
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    About Mod 16

    It seems clear to me that this build/guide will become obsolete upon the release of Mod 16. I wish I could update it, but Mod 16 is such a radical change for this game, that an all new build will be required.

    Elven Archer deserves a lot of credit for originally encouraging me to publish this build and then kindly hosting it on the PVE Archery tab of his current guide on MMOminds.

    But no regrets. It was a fun writing. And this is also not a farewell speech.

    I just think given how much there is to learn in Mod 16, I plan to focus on just playing the game for a while... but you can definitely bet I will be tinkering around. So not saying I won't ever do another guide, but like most of you, there is going to be a learning curve to overcome.

    I do anticipate a new HR guide coming from Elven Archer. Most of you are already familiar with his current guide on MMOminds. I think we can expect a very good Mod 16 guide from him as well. Don't expect this right away, LOL!

    I'm honestly pretty excited about Mod 16 and I think it is going to be a lot of fun! HRs seem to be shaping up as an extremely competitive DPS class. I look forward to exploring all the new possibilities for Hunter Ranger.
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    Here is a video (not me!) demonstrating "combat" and "archery" in Mod 16. Of course, this is from preview and there are still bugs to be resolved (especially for melee powers), but it's an interesting look at the possibilities. The archer seems to do well and I'm sure Combat will do even better once more of the bugs are sorted out.



  • mikewho#5331 mikewho Posts: 138Member Arc User
    edited April 2
    Ok guys I’ve got a delima, HR Arch/comb hybrid 15.5k, right now I’m rocking knotted garbs, I was thinking about switching to hags rags for the 3% damage. However the AC on the KG is 14
    And the AC on Hags rags is 7. Will the ranged damage be worth loosing some of my survivability?(my current DF is—-32 and I have negation once stacked will be -52).
    And one more thing I was thinking of trading my dark lord gaiters for heels of fury but I’ll be trading a lil over a thousand power for armor pen, in that scenario with loosing 1k power would the 3% damage be worth it for my overall melee damage?
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited April 4
    @mikewho#5331

    As a ranged HR, Hags Rags are definitely the way to go. That flat damage bonus is hard to beat. I wouldn't worry too much about AC. Just make sure you have at least 6k+ defense and 10%+ lifesteal and you should be OK. You might also consider the Eyestalk Wrappers which has a similar damage bonus and does stack with Hags Rags. Optionally, Terrored Grips or Fearbringers. As far as the boots, the Enduring Boots might be better than the Heels for a Ranged build. But, if you do play melee too, then the Heels would work. I like the Enduring Boots in part because of the Recovery and, as long as you have good stamina recovery, they work well. The Gladiator's Guile mount insignia bonus should help with stamina recovery. You could also select the Ghostwalker feat instead of Keen Eye for even better stamina gain. Hope this helps!
  • mikewho#5331 mikewho Posts: 138Member Arc User
    edited April 4
    > @typo#6563 said:
    > @mikewho#5331
    >
    > As a ranged HR, Hags Rags are definitely the way to go. That flat damage bonus is hard to beat. I wouldn't worry too much about AC. Just make sure you have at least 6k+ defense and 10%+ lifesteal and you should be OK. You might also consider the Eyestalk Wrappers which has a similar damage bonus and does stack with Hags Rags. Optionally, Terrored Grips or Fearbringers. As far as the boots, the Enduring Boots might be better than the Heels for a Ranged build. But, if you do play melee too, then the Heels would work. I like the Enduring Boots in part because of the Recovery and, as long as you have good stamina recovery, they work well. The Gladiator's Guile mount insignia bonus should help with stamina recovery. You could also select the Ghostwalker feat instead of Keen Eye for even better stamina gain. Hope this helps!


    Thanks Typo I was hoping you would b the one to answer the question, I got the rags and terrored grips and I do see a difference in my damage already and like you said the AC hit doesn’t seem to be as bad as I thought. I’m gonna shoot for the heels to hopefully match my melee up with ranged, but that’s only if I can find someone hosting that expensive sister poster. Thankyou

    Ps does the 3% on melee or ranged only effect at wills or does it include all your attacks in each stance?
  • typo#6563 typo Posts: 185Member Arc User
    edited April 4
    The 3% added damage from hags and heels both affect all respective powers. So all ranged powers for hags. All melee powers for heels. That means, all the ranged/melee at-wills, encounters, dailies. As an Archer, your ranged attacks will of course do more damage than your melee attacks. So your hags rags and terrored grips will do more for you than the heels, but still, the heels will help.
    Post edited by typo#6563 on
  • mikewho#5331 mikewho Posts: 138Member Arc User
    > @typo#6563 said:
    > The 3% added damage from hags and heels both affect all respective powers. So all ranged powers for hags. All melee powers for heels. That means, all the ranged/melee at-wills, encounters, dailies. As an Archer, your ranged attacks will of course do more damage than your melee attacks. So your hags rags and terrored grips will do more for you than the heels, but still, the heels will help.

    Thankyou for clearing that up man , I do appreciate it ill get the enduring boots until I can get enough cheese up for a few posters. I will say with what I got now cordon is amazing! Like making grilled cheeses out of mobs and HE mobs in chult.
    Thankyou again
  • drizztfohldrizztfohl Posts: 65Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I run a pure archer and almost always place in the top 1 or 2 in dungeons. top 5 in tiamat , usually 2 or 3. don't need your buffs to do that either. companion always procs(lion)
  • mikewho#5331 mikewho Posts: 138Member Arc User
    > @drizztfohl said:
    > I run a pure archer and almost always place in the top 1 or 2 in dungeons. top 5 in tiamat , usually 2 or 3. don't need your buffs to do that either. companion always procs(lion)

    I’m shooting for runningCR and CDG before mod 16 hits ps4 so I’m just trying to hustle up as much dps as I can
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